How do we stop School Shootings?

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

How can we stop this trend? How much will it take? Metal detectors, more security? If it were up to you, how would we stop it?

[Spaceman Spiff]

Take away all the guns.

[Toe Jam]

"If nobody has guns then nobody gets shot."

Seriously though..

There need to be stricter laws. Period.

The second amendment supporters need to realize when that amendment was written.

200 years ago.

Do you think they envisioned a world that would be this screwed up?

Highly doubt it.

Stricter laws. Those who don't want stricter laws can get over it. Why should it matter to you?

What do you have to hide?

[drums and skins]

Make bullets illegal.

But seriously, there needs to be stricter laws on owning a gun and what guns are available. There's no need to own an assault rifle. Anything outside of something used for hunting (shotgun, other rifles) should not be available for purchase.

Also, tax the hell out of bullets. Make cigarette taxes look childish.

[.Guy.]

I like Chris Rock's idea

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdJGcrUk2eE

[Teller]

"If nobody has guns then nobody gets shot."

Seriously though..

There need to be stricter laws. Period.

What, specifically, would you enact?

The second amendment supporters need to realize when that amendment was written.

200 years ago.

Do you think they envisioned a world that would be this screwed up?

Highly doubt it.

Well, having piled onto boats for the great unknown, knowing that many wouldn't even survive the trip, in order to escape tyranny. Um, yeah. I think they understood 'screwed up.' They used different terms for it, like 'abuses and usurpations' but they fully understood 'screwed up.'

Stricter laws. Those who don't want stricter laws can get over it. Why should it matter to you?

So infringe upon my rights because other people are stupid. What if I don't like how certain people vote? Should I be able to take that right from them? Afterall, a few million votes for the wrong candidate can be FAR more destructive than a gun, right?

What do you have to hide?

He simply disagrees with you. Why do you think he's hiding something?

[spjunkies]

Sadly I don't think you can.

A crazy **** will always find a way.

[Spaceman Spiff]

"If nobody has guns then nobody gets shot."

Seriously though..

There need to be stricter laws. Period.

The second amendment supporters need to realize when that amendment was written.

200 years ago.

Do you think they envisioned a world that would be this screwed up?

Highly doubt it.

Stricter laws. Those who don't want stricter laws can get over it. Why should it matter to you?

What do you have to hide?

How come my dad grew up in a rural area, went hunting every day from the time he was 6, the family kept loaded guns by the doors...and pretty much every person in the area did the same? And how come no one got hurt? This was in the 40's, 50's, and 60's btw, not 200 years ago.

How come I've grown up with a high amount of shotguns and handguns in my house and never have the urge to play with them, take them to school or solve any problems with them? How come I know a lot of people who feel and act the same? And even if I wanted to, all the guns are kept in a BIG safe in the garage and I don't know the combination.

There's a large contingent of people that feel the same way and yet are hesitant to say anything about it because they quickly get shot down (no pun intended) by people who don't know what it's like to be around guns, handle them properly and respect them. They see things like school shootings and automatically blame guns because it's the easy way out and it doesn't require much thought.

So what happened between 1950 and 2008 to make such a dramatic increase in violence and school shootings?

Since you make an easy argument about stricter regulations and "our founding fathers wrote those laws 200 years ago and didn't expect such a ****ed up country in 2008," I'll reply with the equally easy and lazy:

Better parenting and supervision is required.

and

You can ban them all you want, but like drugs today and alcohol in the prohibition days, people who'll still want to shoot them, will find ways to get them.

However, I have the feeling that either you or I, with our equally lazy answers...have the real answer to the problem.

[Toe Jam]

H_H..

Nobody wants to infringe upon YOUR rights.

I have no doubt that you are a citizen that means absolutely no harm.

Here is the problem that I have though.

In Virginia, there are no background checks at gun shows. You can just walk up, show an ID, and walk out with a gun.

Is it infringing upon anyone's rights to do an instant background check if you have nothing to hide?

People will slip through the background check occasionally. We saw that with the VT shooter. His diagnosis was never properly reported and he bought a gun here in Roanoke at a pawn shop that I've been in. Someone should have raised the alarm.

My logic is that people like you, who have nothing to hide, shouldn't worry about stricter laws. It's not going to take away your rights. Just some of the crazies out there.

Every system will be flawed no matter what. But this gun loophole in VA is complete BS and needs to be done away with.

[Toe Jam]

How come my dad grew up in a rural area, went hunting every day from the time he was 6, the family kept loaded guns by the doors...and pretty much every person in the area did the same? And how come no one got hurt? This was in the 40's, 50's, and 60's btw, not 200 years ago.

How come I've grown up with a high amount of shotguns and handguns in my house and never have the urge to play with them, take them to school or solve any problems with them? How come I know a lot of people who feel and act the same? And even if I wanted to, all the guns are kept in a BIG safe in the garage and I don't know the combination.

There's a large contingent of people that feel the same way and yet are hesitant to say anything about it because they quickly get shot down (no pun intended) by people who don't know what it's like to be around guns, handle them properly and respect them. They see things like school shootings and automatically blame guns because it's the easy way out and it doesn't require much thought.

So what happened between 1950 and 2008 to make such a dramatic increase in violence and school shootings?

Since you make an easy argument about stricter regulations and "our founding fathers wrote those laws 200 years ago and didn't expect such a ****ed up country in 2008," I'll reply with the equally easy and lazy:

Better parenting and supervision is required.

and

You can ban them all you want, but like drugs today and alcohol in the prohibition days, people who'll still want to shoot them, will find ways to get them.

However, I have the feeling that either you or I, with our equally lazy answers...have the real answer to the problem.

Better parenting is the key.

A lot of parents just don't care what happens to their kids. They don't take time to notice anything unusual. And when a teen says they are having issues, some parents blow them off because they can't relate or understand.

I think teens grow up with a lot more problems than their parents did "back in the day". I can tell you firsthand that it takes a strong mind to grow up right when your parents just don't care. It took everything I had to not get sucked into that screwed up mentality. My parents weren't there to raise me right. I was just smart enough to make good decisions.

Not all kids are like that. They need guidance. And they just aren't getting it.

If I had the money then I would be out there helping these people. I don't know how but I would do it.

[DCsportsfan53]

Seeing as how everytime this happens, the coward shoots himself, I fail to see how stricter laws would accomplish absolutely anything at all. Please explain that one to me. Aside from rounding up all guns and destroying them, you're likely not going to stop it and not only would that be ridiculous, it would be impossible.

I understand that this creates outrage but, seriously, taking away everyone's right to own guns, out of 100s of millions of Americans, because of the actions of 10s is near the most unAmerican thing I can think of. It's just an emotional over reaction.

Violence is, and has been since the beginning, a huge part of American culture, no one can deny that. I'm not sure what you really do about it. You can take steps to try and prevent it but, without violating the rights of all Americans, a determined nut job is going to be able to do this. Unfortunately, the only real way to completely stop it is if the country suddenly turns into a happy utopia or becomes a completely freedomless, 1984 style police state and somehow I doubt the latter would accomplish it, either.

[Toe Jam]

Seeing as how everytime this happens, the coward shoots himself, I fail to see how stricter laws would accomplish absolutely anything at all. Please explain that one to me. Aside from rounding up all guns and destroying them, you're likely not going to stop it and not only would that be ridiculous, it would be impossible.

I understand that this creates outrage but, seriously, taking away everyone's right to own guns, out of 100s of millions of Americans, because of the actions of 10s is near the most unAmerican thing I can think of. It's just an emotional over reaction.

Violence is, and has been since the beginning, a huge part of American culture, no one can deny that. I'm not sure what you really do about it. You can take steps to try and prevent it but, without violating the rights of all Americans, a determined nut job is going to be able to do this. Unfortunately, the only real way to completely stop it is if the country suddenly turns into a happy utopia or becomes a completely freedomless, 1984 style police state and somehow I doubt the latter would accomplish it, either.

I would not be for taking away anyone's rights that are deserving of having them.

We need a system that can sort out the crazies from the normal people.

That's wishful thinking, of course, but that's about all I can come up with...

Maybe having licensed people on school campuses carry weapons would be a start too.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Better parenting is the key.

A lot of parents just don't care what happens to their kids. They don't take time to notice anything unusual. And when a teen says they are having issues, some parents blow them off because they can't relate or understand.

I think teens grow up with a lot more problems than their parents did "back in the day". I can tell you firsthand that it takes a strong mind to grow up right when your parents just don't care. It took everything I had to not get sucked into that screwed up mentality. My parents weren't there to raise me right. I was just smart enough to make good decisions.

Not all kids are like that. They need guidance. And they just aren't getting it.

If I had the money then I would be out there helping these people. I don't know how but I would do it.

Out of all the lazy, knee jerk reactions, I'd agree that better parenting is the key.

I'm not sure if teens grow up with more problems than their parents did...different problems, sure...but it doesn't mean more. Back in the day, issues at school used to be settled with fists.

I'll ask again, what's happened between my dads generation in the 50's and now to make our country, as you said, "so screwed up"?

I'll disclaim that I'm not trying to angle for any specific answer here, I don't think there's a "right" or "wrong" answer here.

[Teller]

H_H..

Nobody wants to infringe upon YOUR rights.

I have no doubt that you are a citizen that means absolutely no harm.

Here is the problem that I have though.

In Virginia, there are no background checks at gun shows. You can just walk up, show an ID, and walk out with a gun.

Is it infringing upon anyone's rights to do an instant background check if you have nothing to hide?

People will slip through the background check occasionally. We saw that with the VT shooter. His diagnosis was never properly reported and he bought a gun here in Roanoke at a pawn shop that I've been in. Someone should have raised the alarm.

My logic is that people like you, who have nothing to hide, shouldn't worry about stricter laws. It's not going to take away your rights. Just some of the crazies out there.

Every system will be flawed no matter what. But this gun loophole in VA is complete BS and needs to be done away with.

I could sign on to that, no problem. But will that solve the problem?

I doubt this clown in Illinois got his weapons at a Virginia gun show. And I doubt, further, that all the gun laws in the world will prevent further incidents; for the reasons Spiff pointed out. Where the criminal element has a will, the criminal element will find a way.

One thing I think we need to do is assign what they call 'school resource officers' around here to every school in the nation. We could take some of the money we're spending on, oh, grants for seatbelt enforcement, and dedicate it to school safety.

Now, that's not going to solve the problem either. But at least at every school, we'd have at least one well-intentioned person with a firearm, who's willing to use it properly.

More metal detectors would help too, but I'm not sure how cost effective they are to put on every entrance of every school building and university in the country. Probably not very, IMO.

I don't claim to know what the answer is, and like Spiff said, we probably won't come up with it on a football message board. But I do know that all the laws in the world won't stop this. Enforcement has to be a larger component, IMO, but again, I'm not sure how to do that logistically.

[Zuck]

If someone really wants to kill a bunch of people and doesn't mind dying it's pretty hard to stop them.

If it's not an easy thing to get a bunch of ammunition and weapons it certainly makes it harder for someone to do this type of thing.

I think people should be allowed to buy handguns, rifles etc. but it shouldn't be a right.

I think you should have to earn it, like you do a drivers license. No violent criminal history, take a class, prove you can use it safely.

You'll still have stuff like this happen but it will be less.

Seems like the happy medium to me.

[DCsportsfan53]

Out of all the lazy, knee jerk reactions, I'd agree that better parenting is the key.

I'm not sure if teens grow up with more problems than their parents did...different problems, sure...but it doesn't mean more. Back in the day, issues at school used to be settled with fists.

I'll ask again, what's happened between my dads generation in the 50's and now to make our country, as you said, "so screwed up"?

I'll disclaim that I'm not trying to angle for any specific answer here, I don't think there's a "right" or "wrong" answer here.

These things happened back then, too, actually. Though I do think the media frenzy that surrounds these events contribute to it. That and our ever increasing obsession with gorier and gorier violence. There really isn't a real way to stop it. As painful as it may be to accept for some, you can't always stop crazy people from doing crazy ****. You just can't.

[Toe Jam]

Out of all the lazy, knee jerk reactions, I'd agree that better parenting is the key.

I'm not sure if teens grow up with more problems than their parents did...different problems, sure...but it doesn't mean more. Back in the day, issues at school used to be settled with fists.

I'll ask again, what's happened between my dads generation in the 50's and now to make our country, as you said, "so screwed up"?

I'll disclaim that I'm not trying to angle for any specific answer here, I don't think there's a "right" or "wrong" answer here.

I think our culture today has less regard for human life.

Why? That's an even tougher question.

It's hard to figure out where this mentality came from and when it started.

People care less about people than they did in the 50's I think.

[ChocolateCitySkin]

Give every kid a gun. Then they will be afraid to shoot cuz everyone has one. Thats the logic right?

[DCsportsfan53]

I think our culture today has less regard for human life.

Why? That's an even tougher question.

It's hard to figure out where this mentality came from and when it started.

People care less about people than they did in the 50's I think.

I really don't buy this at all. I think that's pretty much what every generation says in the moment. Like I said, this happened back in the 60s, and 20s. Look back into mob violence back in the 20s and 30s. Think about the Wild West. Man kind is fairly violent by nature.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I think our culture today has less regard for human life.

Why? That's an even tougher question.

It's hard to figure out where this mentality came from and when it started.

People care less about people than they did in the 50's I think.

I'm inclined to agree with this, too.

Speaking about my father again, he grew up on a farm in Delaware. He was the first of his family to go to college, UD, in the late 60's.

It was a simpler time then, to be sure. But when my dad came home from college for spring break, he and my grandfather went into town...and my grandfather couldn't believe it when my dad went to lock the car door when they arrived in the parking lot, and proceeded to ask him if he had lost faith in his fellow man.

I would agree with your assessment that people have less regard for human life than they did back in the day.

To see that it has slipped so fast in 50 years is extremely disturbing.

These things happened back then, too, actually. Though I do think the media frenzy that surrounds these events contribute to it. That and our ever increasing obsession with gorier and gorier violence. There really isn't a real way to stop it. As painful as it may be to accept for some, you can't always stop crazy people from doing crazy ****. You just can't.

I don't know of any specific school shootings that happened before Columbine, but yeah, crazy **** definitely did happen back in the day with people such as Gein and stuff like that.

People who do these things want attention and what better way than to grab it than with the internet and the instant media circus that ensues? That VT kid sure knew he'd get peoples attention, he filmed all those home movies before he went out on his rampage. 50 years ago, he couldn't have done that.

Sick ****er.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I really don't buy this at all. I think that's pretty much what every generation says in the moment. Like I said, this happened back in the 60s, and 20s. Look back into mob violence back in the 20s and 30s. Think about the Wild West. Man kind is fairly violent by nature.

I see what you're saying, but it's got increasingly worse over time. All of a sudden the 60's seem like a fairly innocent time, and the 20's and 30's seem like the wonder years.

[Teller]

I'll ask again, what's happened between my dads generation in the 50's and now to make our country, as you said, "so screwed up"?

I'll disclaim that I'm not trying to angle for any specific answer here, I don't think there's a "right" or "wrong" answer here.

Can I take a crack at this one?

1. The decay of the traditional American family. Over 50 percent of all marriages end in divorce these days, leaving the kids (including my own ) split between two households, and often not having that full-time father figure present.

Some sectors of our population have upwards of 70 percent of their children being born to unwed mothers. Teen pregnancy is also a huge problem. Hell, I wasn't ready to be a dad at 29, let alone 17. And quite honestly, not to throw the whole gay-marriage debate into this mix, but if we legislate absolute equality for every alternative lifestyle that comes down the pike, we're placing even LESS value on the traditional family. I just don't think that's a good thing.

Our parents and grandparents fought for their families, Spiff. Divorce wasn't an option in their minds, except under the worst of circumstances. Too often now, people cut and run, looking for the easy way out, rather than fighting the good fight. And all too often, it's the children who pay for that the most.

2. 'God' wasn't a dirty word in the 1950s. These days, the militant atheists want every sign, symbol and mention of God and or Jesus removed from public sight. Well that's great. Where are kids getting their morality then? From that father who's not in their home? From the mother who's working two jobs and can't take them to Sunday School? From the public school system? Are you kidding me?

I'm not saying religion should be crammed down anyone's throat, and I certainly don't want any version of Christianity taught in public schools. But ya know what? Jesus gave us the 'Golden Rule.' And as far as I'm concerned, that should be admissable. (With or without a reference to its origins.)

Faith was far more important to our grandparents generation than it is to ours, and the further we move away from that, the more of this kind of crap we're going to see.

3. For all its good intentions, the public school system doesn't teach kids to function in today's society. We're too geared toward functional reading and math tests, which are a good thing, but they don't directly create functional adults. There needs to be more emphasis placed on practical skills, IMO (home finances and bookkeeping, etc) and the psychological and sociological aspects of functioning in the world, as opposed to just trying to make kids "book smart."

4. Patriotism. Our parents and grandparents loved, and sacrificed for, this country in far greater ways than most in this generation can imagine. Oh sure, we've still got plenty of heroes these days, but back in our grandparents' day, it was a MINDSET.

My grandmother, when recounting my granddad's actions on D-Day, more than once has said to me, "I don't think he was a hero. He didn't think he was a hero. He was just doing his job."

Just doing his job, huh? Most kids today won't lift a finger to save their own damned neighborhood, let alone the whole friggin' world. And that's a shame.

I could go on forever, but suffice it to say that our grandparents had it right. And the further we move from the way THEY did things, the worse things get.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Can I take a crack at this one?

What the hell are you doing in here, bringing in good conservative values? Dammit, this is supposed to be a gun bashing thread!

[DjTj]

I think the "it was so great back in the day" stuff is a little exagerrated. Our present-day homicide rate is actually much lower than it was in the 80's or in the 20's. We have dropped almost to the lowest levels of the 60's. We have reduced typical kinds of murders and robberies, but perhaps that has pushed these kinds of sensational crimes more into the limelight.

Can I take a crack at this one?

I'd also like to take a crack at this ...

I really think all these symptoms (unwed mothers, divorces, religion, pragmatic education, patriotism) stem from a systematic emphasis on individualism and independence that is one of the great strengths of American culture but which also has a downside.

Nobody wants to rely on anyone else for support these days, and it has become much more important to acquire the skills to get ahead in life than to get along with your neighbors. Being individually happy has become more important than keeping a family together. Independence has turned into selfishness.

The communities used to be smaller. The country used to be more unified. Asking for help and receiving help used to be the norm, whether it was from extended family, from your neighbors, or your fellow countrymen. Now, if you need help from others, you're seen as a loser. So people don't ask for help anymore. They get lost, they become angry, and they lash out with violence.

[DCsportsfan53]

I see what you're saying, but it's got increasingly worse over time. All of a sudden the 60's seem like a fairly innocent time, and the 20's and 30's seem like the wonder years.

I don't think so, I think that's just because we weren't around to see it. I mean, are we just excluding all the racial violence, church bombings, ect when deciding it was a simpler, less violent time?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Whitman

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_State_University,_Fullerton_Library_Massacre

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brenda_Ann_Spencer

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cologne_school_massacre

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe_Elementary_School_attack

As you can see, it's not exactly a new phenomenon. Things just get lost and forgotten in history and there's ALWAYS the mentality that the times are worse than they've ever been. The "kids these days" syndrome, if you will. People are people, we haven't changed that much.

Edit: Very astute observations, Dj.