How do we stop School Shootings?

[GibbsFactor]

I had guns in my closet while in college, I used them for hunting, no harm no foul on my part.

I know this wasn't an accident however I am curious to find more about the gunman and where he got the guns from.

And how does that help you while at class and your gun is in your dorm? We'd all need to be strapped.

We can't strap young college kids. They are simply too irresponsible.

[GoSkins561]

And how does that help you while at class and your gun is in your dorm? We'd all need to be strapped.

We can't strap young college kids. They are simply too irresponsible.

I am very responsible with my guns. My dad gave me my .22 cal single shot when I was five years old. He tought me safety and responsibility.

Maybe it's because you have not been around responsible teenage/college age kids who are gun owners that you have this opinion. I think you would actually be quite suprised at how many responsible gun owners are on a campus that wouldn't even let the tip of their gun cross their pet cat.

If these kids could pass psychological evaluations and prove they are responsible, there isn't a single reason why they shouldnt be ablt to carry.

[GibbsFactor]

I am very responsible with my guns. My dad gave me my .22 cal single shot when I was five years old. He tought me safety and responsibility.

Maybe it's because you have not been around responsible teenage/college age kids who are gun owners that you have this opinion. I think you would actually be quite suprised at how many responsible gun owners are on a campus that wouldn't even let the tip of their gun cross their pet cat.

If these kids could pass psychological evaluations and prove they are responsible, there isn't a single reason why they shouldnt be ablt to carry.

Totally agree. Would they be allowed to party with them? When a wild and crazy dorm room party breaks out would they be cool, would they keep their weapons secure, would they not participate in the festivities? Who decides who gets to carry?

[Kosher Ham]

Kennesaw, Georgia requires residents to be gun owners. Murder is virtually non-existent.

[GoSkins561]

And how does that help you while at class and your gun is in your dorm? We'd all need to be strapped.

We can't strap young college kids. They are simply too irresponsible.

I would also like to add, it becomes quite apparant when your arround someone who has not had any safety classes.

They usually let the gun cross people, animals, point the guns at the walls instead of into corners of ceilings. These are the people that have not been taught how to handle a gun properly.

I could list 20 to 30 guys who were more than responsible with their weapons, they are also great shots.

[GoSkins561]

Totally agree. Would they be allowed to party with them? When a wild and crazy dorm room party breaks out would they be cool, would they keep their weapons secure, would they not participate in the festivities? Who decides who gets to carry?

If someone breaks a gun out when they are partying, they shouldn't be allowed tohave a gun on campus. Most of the guys I knew wouldn't even discuss their guns unless they knew the person had a genuine interest.

I would also add, if they are going out to party, they shouldn't be allowed to CCW.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

To be honest, the people who seem to be expressing that we should not have any gun control laws - or at least any more than we already have - should start accepting responsibility for those requests.

It may be unfair to YOU to take your gun away when you aren't a criminal, etc. I get that. But its unfair to the victims of other people's crimes that were made possible because YOU wanted your guns freely.

[Kosher Ham]

Guns ARE illegal in DC and have been for years. How's that been working out for stopping all of the shooting that take place in the city ?

[GibbsFactor]

If someone breaks a gun out when they are partying, they shouldn't be allowed tohave a gun on campus. Most of the guys I knew wouldn't even discuss their guns unless they knew the person had a genuine interest.

I would also add, if they are going out to party, they shouldn't be allowed to CCW.

Thanks. To my point.

[Prosperity]

Right now in colleges there basically is no security. They have a campus security but they do not do anything. All they do is call the cops when something goes down. They don't carry guns, they are armed with bicycles to write parking tickets at best. Even High Schools have one police officer assigned to each school. Thats one more than what is assigned to colleges. The fact of the matter is a half assed measure is better than no measure. Im not saying more security would have prevented the situation but it could have saved atleast one life or saved students from getting shot.

I see more cops patrolling my campus than my neighborhood.

These cops are reals and they have guns, so I have to reject your idea.

[GibbsFactor]

To be honest, the people who seem to be expressing that we should not have any gun control laws - or at least any more than we already have - should start accepting responsibility for those requests.

It may be unfair to YOU to take your gun away when you aren't a criminal, etc. I get that. But its unfair to the victims of other people's crimes that were made possible because YOU wanted your guns freely.

You miss the point. Owners of guns generally don't commit murder. It's those that get them illegally that do.

If I was going to rob a liquor store, and I know of two. One, the clerk has a 12 guage under the counter, the other, only a bat. Which one do I rob?

[Tulane Skins Fan]

Guns ARE illegal in DC and have been for years. How's that been working out for stopping all of the shooting that take place in the city ?

The reason for that is that people go into Virginia and buy their guns there, legally.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

You miss the point. Owners of guns generally don't commit murder. It's those that get them illegally that do.

If I was going to rob a liquor store, and I know of two. One, the clerk has a 12 guage under the counter, the other, only a bat. Which one do I rob?

Generally is the key word in your post. It still happens... everyday, I would venture.

Also, the Virginia Tech killer bought his gun legally. It happens.

How about, you dont have to take responsibility for the people that kill with illegal guns, but you do for all the people that kill with legally bought guns (including accidents, etc.)?

[GoSkins561]

To be honest, the people who seem to be expressing that we should not have any gun control laws - or at least any more than we already have - should start accepting responsibility for those requests.

It may be unfair to YOU to take your gun away when you aren't a criminal, etc. I get that. But its unfair to the victims of other people's crimes that were made possible because YOU wanted your guns freely.

The problem isn't the people who own guns legally, it is the people who get them illegally. I am very interested to learn more about the gunowner and how he got these guns.

[SkinInsite]

Kennesaw, Georgia requires residents to be gun owners. Murder is virtually non-existent.

Morton Grove, Illinois banned guns and their crime rate is non-existent.

[GoSkins561]

The reason for that is that people go into Virginia and buy their guns there, legally.

NOOOOOOO, more than likely gangsters who murder on the streets of DC are getting their guns illegally either by stealing them or on the black market.

[DCsportsfan53]

Good point.

But you can't say that teen violence is not on the rise. I think teen violence is probably happening now more than ever.

Again, I think you're just caught in the moment. Is there more highly publicized teen violence now, or more specifically, more teen school shootings? Yes. Does that in any way mean that teens are more violent now? It would be an uneducated, baseless assumption at best to say so.

I agree with this.

Aren't violent crime rates at a 40 year low in the USA?

Exactly what I'm trying to say. Things are just more clearly remembered, more emphasized and the emotion is still there when you're in the moment. Just look at something like 1920s Chicago and the St Valentine's Day massacre and tell me it's more violent now. People are and always have been very violent and this country has a fairly violent history. I really don't understand why people feel the need to exaggerate things and make it a momentary crisis is if none of this has happened before. Does it diminish the horror of an event like this if there was just as much violence 50 years ago?

To be honest, the people who seem to be expressing that we should not have any gun control laws - or at least any more than we already have - should start accepting responsibility for those requests.

It may be unfair to YOU to take your gun away when you aren't a criminal, etc. I get that. But its unfair to the victims of other people's crimes that were made possible because YOU wanted your guns freely.

That is ridiculous. You know what, YOU need to start accepting responsibility for everyone who dies in traffic accidents. You may not have run anyone over yet and you may drive responsibly but it's unfair to the people who have been run over that their families have suffer just so YOU have the right to drive to work instead of walking.

[Kosher Ham]

NOOOOOOO, more than likely gangsters who murder on the streets of DC are getting their guns illegally either by stealing them or on the black market.

Thank you. Seems like quite a stretch to believe these people are going into VA just to turn around and come back to DC specifically for illegal ownership.

[GoSkins561]

It is not the responsible legal gun owners who are not the problem.

by Dan Noyes, Center for Investigative Reporting

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ask a cop on the beat how criminals get guns and you're likely to hear this hard boiled response: "They steal them." But this street wisdom is wrong, according to one frustrated Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) agent who is tired of battling this popular misconception. An expert on crime gun patterns, ATF agent Jay Wachtel says that most guns used in crimes are not stolen out of private gun owners' homes and cars. "Stolen guns account for only about 10% to 15% of guns used in crimes," Wachtel said. Because when they want guns they want them immediately the wait is usually too long for a weapon to be stolen and find its way to a criminal.

In fact, there are a number of sources that allow guns to fall into the wrong hands, with gun thefts at the bottom of the list. Wachtel says one of the most common ways criminals get guns is through straw purchase sales. A straw purchase occurs when someone who may not legally acquire a firearm, or who wants to do so anonymously, has a companion buy it on their behalf. According to a 1994 ATF study on "Sources of Crime Guns in Southern California," many straw purchases are conducted in an openly "suggestive" manner where two people walk into a gun store, one selects a firearm, and then the other uses identification for the purchase and pays for the gun. Or, several underage people walk into a store and an adult with them makes the purchases. Both of these are illegal activities.

The next biggest source of illegal gun transactions where criminals get guns are sales made by legally licensed but corrupt at-home and commercial gun dealers. Several recent reports back up Wachtel's own studies about this, and make the case that illegal activity by those licensed to sell guns, known as Federal Firearms Licensees (FFLs), is a huge source of crime guns and greatly surpasses the sale of guns stolen from John Q. Citizen. Like bank robbers, who are interested in banks, gun traffickers are interested in FFLs because that's where the guns are. This is why FFLs are a large source of illegal guns for traffickers, who ultimately wind up selling the guns on the street.

According to a recent ATF report, there is a significant diversion to the illegal gun market from FFLs. The report states that "of the 120,370 crime guns that were traced to purchases from the FFLs then in business, 27.7 % of these firearms were seized by law enforcement in connection with a crime within two years of the original sale. This rapid `time to crime' of a gun purchased from an FFL is a strong indicator that the initial seller or purchaser may have been engaged in unlawful activity."

The report goes on to state that "over-the-counter purchases are not the only means by which guns reach the illegal market from FFLs" and reveals that 23,775 guns have been reported lost, missing or stolen from FFLs since September 13, 1994, when a new law took effect requiring dealers to report gun thefts within 48 hours. This makes the theft of 6,000 guns reported in the CIR/Frontline show "Hot Guns" only 25% of all cases reported to ATF in the past two and one-half years.

Another large source of guns used in crimes are unlicensed street dealers who either get their guns through illegal transactions with licensed dealers, straw purchases, or from gun thefts. These illegal dealers turn around and sell these illegally on the street. An additional way criminals gain access to guns is family and friends, either through sales, theft or as gifts.

While many guns are taken off the street when people are arrested and any firearms in their possession are confiscated, a new study shows how easily arrestees believe they could illegally acquire another firearm. Supported by the National Institute of Justice and based on interviews with those recently arrested, the study acknowledges gun theft is common, with 13 percent of all arrestees interviewed admitting that they had stolen a gun. However a key finding is that "the illegal market is the most likely source" for these people to obtain a gun. "In fact, more than half the arrestees say it is easy to obtain guns illegally," the report states. Responding to a question of how they obtained their most recent handgun, the arrestees answered as follows: 56% said they paid cash; 15% said it was a gift; 10% said they borrowed it; 8% said they traded for it; while 5% only said that they stole it.

ATF officials say that only about 8% of the nation's 124,000 retail gun dealers sell the majority of handguns that are used in crimes. They conclude that these licensed retailers are part of a block of rogue entrepreneurs tempted by the big profits of gun trafficking. Cracking down on these dealers continues to be a priority for the ATF. What's needed, according to Wachtel, is better monitoring of the activities of legally licensed gun dealers. This means examining FFL paperwork to see where their guns are coming from, and making sure that those guns are being sold legally. But he says, "Let's be honest. If someone wants a gun, it's obvious the person will not have difficulty buying a gun, either legally or through the extensive United States black market."

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/guns/procon/guns.html

[SkinInsite]

NOOOOOOO, more than likely gangsters who murder on the streets of DC are getting their guns illegally either by stealing them or on the black market.

How do guns wind up on the black market? All hand guns/rifles have to come from a manufacturer. Shouldn't there be a record of who/where the gun was sold so the police could trace it's ownership history.

[GoSkins561]

How do guns wind up on the black market? All hand guns/rifles have to come from a manufacturer. Shouldn't there be a record of who/where the gun was sold so the police could trace it's ownership history.

They have methods of tracking hand guns as for as I know, not shotguns and rifles.

[Zguy28]

Here's a useful chart:

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/tables/guncrimetab.htm

[Kosher Ham]

How do guns wind up on the black market? All hand guns/rifles have to come from a manufacturer. Shouldn't there be a record of who/where the gun was sold so the police could trace it's ownership history.

Gun shops get robbed, gun collectors get robbed, guns are brought into the country illegally, etc.

So there would be no way of tracking those weapons.

[GibbsFactor]

Generally is the key word in your post. It still happens... everyday, I would venture.

Also, the Virginia Tech killer bought his gun legally. It happens.

How about, you dont have to take responsibility for the people that kill with illegal guns, but you do for all the people that kill with legally bought guns (including accidents, etc.)?

Good point. I guess if you are going to go out with a bang, who cares if the gun is legal or not.

I think another good point that is getting lost here is that we are blaming guns.

The only thing a gun is, is the easist way to kill people today. It's not guns fault. It just happens to be what it is.

[Zguy28]

It is not the responsible legal gun owners who are not the problem.

I found this also:

http://www.neahin.org/programs/schoolsafety/gunsafety/statistics.htm

Studies show that 1 percent of gun stores sell the weapons traced to 57 percent of gun crimes. According to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF), the dealer that armed the DC area sniper is among this small group of problem gun dealers that "supply the suppliers" who funnel guns to the nation's criminals. (Between 1997 and 2001, guns sold by this dealer were involved in 52 crimes, including homicides, kidnappings and assaults. Still open today, it also can't account for 238 guns or say whether they were stolen, lost or sold, or if their buyers underwent felony-background checks.) As a result, these few gun dealers have a vastly disproportionate impact on public safety. The ATF can recognize such dealers based on: (1) guns stolen from inventory; (2) missing federal sales records, needed by police to solve crimes; (3) having 10 weapons a year traced to crimes; (4) frequently selling multiple guns to individual buyers; and (5) short times between gun sales and their involvement in crimes. Yet ATF enforcement is weak due to a lack of Congressional support and resources. For more details, click here.