Thinking Skins Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Last year, we watched Chad Pennington just wow the league and everybody was talking about how good he was. At the same time, people were speaking of the problems in Washington and how we had no QB of the future. Right now, I see us making the moves this offseason that will easily allow Ramsey to put up numbers similar to if not better than Pennington's last year. I mean I can see him having all day to throw it, having some nice release routes underneath and some dangerous guys goind mid and long!. I just see Ramsey stealing all Pennington's success, and I just cant wait! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stricknine Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 I think that is a quite likely scenario. I think I quite like that scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Pennington also sat on the bench like a team player for like 3 years. Hopefully the Ramsey learning curve can handle this. Right now he might be at the park, working out or watching game film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sir Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Plus, Ramsey has an arm, while Pennington does not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbear Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Honestly, I don't thik Ramsey has the accuracy that Pennington displayed last year. He's got a much better arm, but I'm not sure I see him as successful in a dink and dunk attack. As a result, I can't see his completion percentage ever being his selling point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCdemolition Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 I like Ramsey's poise. His completion percentage worries me a little, but with the new line, that should be much improved. I think the RBs will be key to his putting up ProBowl-esque numbers. He just has tons of weapons now. Remember that we still have Betts and Watson, whose roles are yet to be defined in the offense. Looking back at the Houston game, it seems that we will get a lot of productivity out of the RB posiition. It'll be great to have 2-3 guys that can consistently pick up yards and convert third downs for Ramsey. A Canidate-Betts one-two punch with a little bit of Watson thrown in will keep everyone on their heels. Next season should be fun offensively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Pennington came out in the 2000 draft so he had two years of sitting before getting the call. Hopefully, Ramsey will mature a year faster. Any lack of accuracy on Ramsey's part is more than made up by his arm strength Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJWatson3 Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 I see Ramsey being a better QB than Pennington. Chad P had more weapons and a system that worked for that team. Ramsey had to work with a crap OLine, WR's wrong for the style passing attack that SS wanted, and a RB (an awesome RB!) that was out of place in the offense too!! ChadP had three years to learn the offense from Vinnie, Ramsey was thrown into the fire. Do you remember how poor Pennington played when he saw actual playing time previous to this season? Ramsey showed flashes of brilliance from the first opportunity in TEN. Of course the NO and GB games were diff, but the team didn't come to play in those games-- he got mugged. Ramsey also has a much stronger arm that Pennington-- he doens't float balls and miss receivers because the D has more time to react. This will be a huge factor over the course of their careers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFan01 Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Ramsey has a lot of potential to be a very good passer, part of his woes last year was: A: Being a Rookie(How many rookie QB's actually have a good 1st year B: No time to throw C: only 1 good reciever I'm not saying "Ramsey is God", but i am confident that he can become a premier passer if he is givin the appropriate weapons. The addition of coles will definatley help him run this offense a lot better than anyone did last year.I'm very optimistic about this year coming up, we were 7-9 last year, take away a few horrible turnovers and we sweep the gaints, go 9-7 and possibly make the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SkinsHokie Fan Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 People also tend to forget that Ramsey is a very intelligent guy. Double major in finance and accounting in 3 1/2 years isn't easy at all. Towards the end of last year he seemed to have a fairly good grasp of the offense and looked confident running it. I think with a full offseason and a full training camp good things are ahead for this kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B&G Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 I'm not too worried about Ramsey's completion percentage but for those who are thinking about it, here are some interesting career stats for another strongarmed QB! He didn't have the highest career percantage completed stats but managed to do alright. John Elway -- Career Statistics Passing Statistics Year Team Comp Att Comp% Yds Yd/Att TD INT Sacked-Yds Rating 1983 Den 123 259 47.5 1663 6.4 7 14 28- 218 54.9 1984 Den 214 380 56.3 2598 6.8 18 15 24- 158 76.8 1985 Den 327 605 54.0 3891 6.4 22 23 38- 307 70.2 1986 Den 280 504 55.6 3485 6.9 19 13 32- 233 79.0 1987 Den 224 410 54.6 3198 7.8 19 12 20- 138 83.4 1988 Den 274 496 55.2 3309 6.7 17 19 30- 237 71.4 1989 Den 223 416 53.6 3051 7.3 18 18 35- 298 73.7 1990 Den 294 502 58.6 3526 7.0 15 14 43- 311 78.5 1991 Den 242 451 53.7 3253 7.2 13 12 45- 305 75.4 1992 Den 174 316 55.1 2242 7.1 10 17 36- 272 65.7 1993 Den 348 551 63.2 4030 7.3 25 10 39- 293 92.8 1994 Den 307 494 62.1 3490 7.1 16 10 46- 303 85.7 1995 Den 316 542 58.3 3970 7.3 26 14 22- 180 86.4 1996 Den 287 466 61.6 3328 7.1 26 14 26- 194 89.2 1997 Den 280 502 55.8 3635 7.2 27 11 34- 203 87.5 1998 Den 210 356 59.0 2806 7.9 22 10 18- 135 93.0 TOTALS 4123 7250 56.9 51475 7.1 300 226 516-3785 79.9 Rushing/Receiving Statistics Year Team Rush Yds Yd/Rush TD Rec Yds Yd/Rec TD 1983 Den 28 146 5.2 1 0 0 - 0 1984 Den 56 237 4.2 1 0 0 - 0 1985 Den 51 253 5.0 0 0 0 - 0 1986 Den 52 257 4.9 1 1 23 23.0 1 1987 Den 66 304 4.6 4 0 0 - 0 1988 Den 54 234 4.3 1 0 0 - 0 1989 Den 48 244 5.1 3 0 0 - 0 1990 Den 50 258 5.2 3 0 0 - 0 1991 Den 55 255 4.6 6 1 24 24.0 0 1992 Den 34 94 2.8 2 0 0 - 0 1993 Den 44 153 3.5 0 0 0 - 0 1994 Den 58 235 4.1 4 0 0 - 0 1995 Den 41 176 4.3 1 0 0 - 0 1996 Den 50 249 5.0 4 0 0 - 0 1997 Den 50 218 4.4 1 0 0 - 0 1998 Den 37 94 2.5 1 1 14 14.0 0 TOTALS 774 3407 4.4 33 3 61 20.3 1 Punting Statistics Year Team Punts Yds Yd/Punt Blk TB Inside20 Op Ret-Yds 1987 Den 1 31 31.0 0 0 1 - 0 1988 Den 3 117 39.0 0 0 2 - 0 1989 Den 1 34 34.0 0 1 0 - 0 1990 Den 1 37 37.0 0 1 0 - 0 1991 Den 1 34 34.0 0 1 0 - 0 TOTALS 7 253 36.1 0 3 3 0- 0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Originally posted by gbear Honestly, I don't thik Ramsey has the accuracy that Pennington displayed last year. He's got a much better arm, but I'm not sure I see him as successful in a dink and dunk attack. As a result, I can't see his completion percentage ever being his selling point. Pennington had years to practice on the sideline before shining last year behind a great O line. Ramsey was thrown to the wolves in his first year behind an O line that at times looked like a fast spinning, revolving door. How can you possibly compare accuracy? :?: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathByLinebacker Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Pennington is very good. Ramsey doesn't have to be better to be very good in his own right. Really, I think Pennington is the better QB for a WCO like NYJ runs while Ramsey is better suited for an offense that wants to go downfield as the first option such as ours is supposed to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Consigliere Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 I think we all have reason to be very excited about Ramsey's prospects, although we should retain our critical judgement in analyzing him. The negatives so far have been fairly clear, he can be painfully inaccurate at times (in the first quarter against the Saints, against Green Bay, and against the Cowboys and Texans), although some of the incompletions were more drops, than errant throws. He also self-destructed early on against the Saint's, however that had as much to do with horrible pass protection as it did with his actual play on its own, and as I will mention later, that game was as much a tribute to Ramsey's heart and desire, as it was a debacle in terms of the final score and the stat sheet. In addition he could use a bit more touch in his throws, and while we all admire his strength, and steel cojones in staying in the pocket and taking hits, we also have to worry at how many knock downs he's going to take and what that could do to his health long term and in the short term. However, despite those issues we've also seen Ramsey succeed despite an absolutely horrendous situation to compete in in '02. He had a new coach with no patience trying to make the best of impressions who was notoriously short tempered with his quarterbacks, and prone to giving them the hook. Despite the claims of others (at the CPND board where I'm a regular, I'm new to this board), Ramsey was saddled with an offense with no weapons of serious consequence save Davis, who was not used effectively. Gardner blossomed this year into a solid receiver, but few teams were concerned with our WR's and with good reason, D.T. was at his best below average, Gardner while better, was never dominating, and no other pass catcher threatened the secondaries even as much as him. Worse yet, the interior OL was a complete disaster, so bad in fact, that in my view it contributed directly to Jansen's worst ever year as a Redskins (its my view that the contract situation, the new offensive system, and compensating with a revolving door at RG really combined to ruin his season. He didn't play well either but I believe his poor play was an aberration related to other problems, rather than symptomatic of serious problems in his game), and to Samuels worst year as a Redskin as well. Yet inspite of this he compiled a .500 record as a starter, threw more td's than picks (unheard of for rookies, particularly rookies playing on bad or sub .500 teams), completed 50%+ of his passes, passed for nearly 7 yards per attempt (7 being the litmus test for effective QB's), and most importantly he came up big in his two biggest games. In his first pro start he beat an AFC Championship Finalist in Tennessee throwing for more than 200 yards and 2 TD's with no picks, an absolutely sterling debut. And in facing Philly in December, he led his team back from a 17-0 deficit to the NFC Championship Finalist Eagles, completing 20 of 31 the rest of the way for 208 yards and 3 TD's against zero picks, and if not for a turnover returned for a TD Ramsey might have put us in position to win. As it was, he had a sterling performance against two of the best defenses in the league in Philly and Tennessee. But perhaps his most impressive performance of the year in its own way, was a nightmare against the Saints in October. In his performance against the Saints, the line was a total sieve which contributed to one of the worst first quarter performances I'd ever seen by a QB, it was downright Leaf-esque, even in Quincy Carter territory. He threw three picks and another near pick (overturned due to a defensive penalty) and three incompletions with his first six passes, and butterfingers Davis fumbled on the ensuing posession to make matters even worse. Before he could say, "what the fu--?" The Redskins were down 20-0, and he was on his way to getting sacked 7 times on the day (and getting knocked down about fifty times). So how did he handle this adversity? Just like he had in the preseason and at Tulane (where he was notorious for standing in the pocket, and making all the throws no matter how many times he got knocked down, always getting right back up and fighting to win), he got back up took a look at the scoreboard and his nightmarish stats and preceded to complete 21 of his next 37 passes for 320 yards and a touchdown, leading the team to four TD drives, and what could have been a tie score if the special teams weren't so bloody awful that they gave up a kick return and a punt return for TD's in the second and fourth quarters. So what we know is that Ramsey is a fighter, that like the very best of QB's (Montana, Elway, Unitas, Marino, etc), when the going gets rough, Ramsey fights, and fights, and fights until the bloody whistle sounds. He can make all the throws, he's got a cannon for an arm so he can beat coverages (and thankfully he hasn't shown George's propensity to take the reality of that cannon and assume it means he can make anything happen no matter what the coverage), he's got very good vision, he's a natural leader, he cannot be intimidated (which is a big part of the power of today's radical blitzing packages, designed to frazzle QB's into making stupid mistakes), and best of all, he did well despite the fact that virtually nothing on offense was working per Spurrier's specifications this year, not the running attack, not the pass or run blocking, and certainly not the anemic receiving corps. It's too early to make a call on Ramsey, but right now the early returns are very, very positive. Best of all, he comes relatively cheap in terms of franchise QB's, and thus we can build around him with better assets to help him grow into a true weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 Nice post Consigliere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 I never thought you were a bad Consigliere, only Sonny may he rest in peace, a bad Don. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 Pennington was great at the beginning of the year, but as the season went on, his weak arm was exposed. He can get the balls to wide open recievers, but does not have the arm strength to put a zip on the ball to get it through traffic, or by defenders. Ramsey has 100x the arm strength, but needs to work on his accuracy, and timing, and learn to put a touch on the ball depending on what type of throw is being made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Die Hard Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 The Consigliere - I don't think Ramsey's nightmare performance was even the Saints game.... but the Packers game. That game Ramsey didn't have any rhythm whatsoever. And while I certainly agree the first 4 possessions the Skins had against the Saints couldn't have been played any worse by another team or player in NFL history... Ramsey came back and showed the poise and promise in that game that has led us all to believe in his longterm prospects... moreso than any other performance last year. I don't give the QB position a second thought any more. The kid is for real. And anybody who says the Skins need a QB simply doesn't know jacksh!t about football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilMonkeyBoy Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 Originally posted by NoCalMike Pennington was great at the beginning of the year, but as the season went on, his weak arm was exposed. He can get the balls to wide open recievers, but does not have the arm strength to put a zip on the ball to get it through traffic, or by defenders. Ramsey has 100x the arm strength, but needs to work on his accuracy, and timing, and learn to put a touch on the ball depending on what type of throw is being made. Pennington's last 7 games were outstanding, some of the best football a QB played all year. I don't know what your talking about on that one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Die Hard Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 Actually EvilMonkeyBoy... I wouldn't necessarily agree. I'll be honest... I only watched bits and pieces of the Jets here and there throughout the whole season... but take a look at the boxscores: http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/187395/gamelogs He put up some crazy numbers the last 2 games... but the Jets defense was causing major turnovers in the game against the Packers. That's why you saw 196 passing yards with 4 TDs. In the 3 games preceding the last 2.. he had 4 TD passes and 1 INT. Workmanlike. His QB rating was outrageous... but his passing numbers always left a little to be desired. All season... he only passed for more than 300 yards in 1 game... and he had less than 200 yards passing in 4 games. There's just something wrong when you look his numbers on the year. My educated guess would be a product of the system. Nothing wrong with that though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montilar Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 I assume by the moniker, the style of the post, (and the legnth ), and coming from CA that S-bomb finally made his way over. 'bout time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Die Hard Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 http://forums.theganggreen.com/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=4900 Clearly Giants fans are the best fans in New York. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Consigliere Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 "I assume by the moniker, the style of the post, (and the length ), and coming from CA that S-bomb finally made his way over. " You are correct sir! Nailed on all points. And Die Hard, you may be right about that Green Bay game, it was so bloody bad, I turned my seat around and started watching another game at the sports bar (Dallas losing to the Cardinals if memory serves ). The saint game sticks in my memory because of how hilariously bad it was. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm rather notorious (in person) for laughing when things get far beyond the unimaginable. By the third pick and the Stephan Davis fumble, I was laughing hysterically, thoroughly confusing an old crank Saints/Raiders Fan (she brought this bizarre photo-diary of Raider lore with pictures of all her favorite raiders, and was supporting the Saint's since Ken Stabler, her idol, played for them) who thought I was a Redskin fan. Apparently she had never come across the term 'Gallows Humor', anyway that's why the game sticks in my mind. You couldn't have had a better test for Ramsey, or a bigger hole for a player to deal with mentally and physically. 0-6, 3 interceptions, and down 20-0 about 15 minutes into the game. Wow! What he did after that was deeply impressive. I am also very happy right now at QB. Anything could happen, we've been teased before with great players, in my life alone, for brief periods of time we thought we'd found franchise QB's in Schreoder in '85/'86, in Rypien in '88 (and again in '91), in Cary Conklin and in Stan Humphries, and in Shuler and in Frerotte, but none lived up to the hype (although at least Humphries and Rypien made it to the Super Bowl). Ramsey could be a tease as well, but I don't think he is, far too much evidence available suggests otherwise, and I am very happy with the state of affairs at QB though not in terms of depth at the position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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