romank Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Sweet Sassy Molassy.....you're wise beyond your years!! I've been wanting to post this for quite some time, but the recent attitude of the board didn't really give me a good feeling, so I've said my piece in some threads but for the most part kept my mouth shut.Either way, I want to give my perspective on the entire coaching search. Let me start this off by saying that I'd like to see GW as HC ... but I'd rather see a winner. No matter who that coach is, I just want the coach to win games and get this team over the hump. Let's face some facts. First, this past season was really not much different from the previous. We had a lot of mental errors, we had a lot of blown leads and we had a lot of poor coaching. Secondly, the players, and the coaches don't deserve anything. Why? Because we were just as close to being 4-12 as we were to being 14-2 and it's been the same story for the past 3/4 years. This season we were in 5 games that were decided by 3 points or less. The year before same thing, 2005 we had 6 games like that. For the past few years we've looked at that stat and used it as our basis as to why the Redskins were going to be great the next season, only for the exact same outcome, a lot of close games with the Redskins scraping by for a victory or self-destructing in a loss. For the past few years this team has been sitting on the edge of the mountain, and for some reason hasn't been able to lift itself to the top. We've for the past three years said that "this team was going to be special next season", only for the team to suffer more blown leads, more mental gaffes and more poor coaching than they did the year prior. Every now and then the team will rattle off an inspiring string of wins and get us into the playoff. The winning out then makes the fans forget all the flaws our team has because we were able to crawl our way into the playoffs, even though when we got there the team looked deflated and ill-prepared. So who's to blame for all of this? To be honest, I don't have that answer. But I will say that there were a lot of times when I was baffled by the calls Gibbs/Saunders made or the defensive gameplan Gregg Williams implemented. So while I'm all for keeping Gregg Williams and Al Saunders, even if they were to stay on, all that means is that we'll have to wait and see if what they do actually works. There are no guarantees, coaches that we have interviewed have questionmarks around them, but so does the current staff. I mean, for most of this past season Al Saunders' offense looked pedestrian, to say the least. I know a lot of you will say that Saunders was handcuffed but at the same time, we don't know if that's a fact, or if we were just assuming such a thing because Al Saunders' is supposedly an offensive god. The last 3 games gave some hope, but are really not enough for me to say one way or another that what Saunders does works ... at least with this team. I personally am not sure if Saunders style is the correct system for our team, even though I felt Gibbs style was a bit antiquated. As far as Williams goes, there were too many times this past season where our defense just didn't show up, there were games where some of us felt that had our defense stepped up we would have won. For instance Williams insistence on playing deep coverage when the team we're playing is still eating up the short middle areas of the field. And that didn't just happen this year, in-fact he's always had that mentality that what he does works, and his stubbornness to change almost alienated him with the entire team the year before last and looks as if it hurt his standing with the FO this offseason. So we can whine all we want about not sticking with Saunders and Williams, but to be honest, just because we want those guys and are familiar with them doesn't mean that what they do will definitely work. And while I was all for GW staying on as HC, I can appreciate the seemingly detailed job Snyder has done with looking for the next coach. Because GW is just as flawed as any of the other guys, and with not as good a record as HC. Snyder could have stuck with what's easier and hired GW, he would be loved by the fans and players, but that's not always how you win. Sometimes it takes a gutsy move to win. Will Snyder's move pay off? We can only wait and see. So why don't we just do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdlives Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 SSM, Don't kid yourself. The issues you discuss are a result of the coaching staff not meshing with the players. This is a result of them not having enough time to get accustomed to the systems they work in. Once again, the defense is only 4 years old (top ten in three of those years) and the offense a mere 2 years old. Had these coaches been given a chance to work with the players for a couple of more years, we wold have seen much more progress than we've seen to this point. Look at the playoff teams of this year. The most successful teams have stability in common. Same players, systems, and coaches for several years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimster Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Who do you think you are? Perspective? Reasonable analysis? Potential faith in Snyder? That stuff isnt allowed on ES.But in all seriousness, good thread. A lot of times we lock on to someone we think is best and refuse to listen to arguments for the other side and ridicule anything other than what we want. While I like the talent on this team, it did not seem like we could string together consecutive good games. Yeah, we had the one Detroit game, but in all the other games we were so close to a meltdown and were barely able to squeeze out the win. The Jets game is a prime example of what you were talking about. We had just been demolished by the team who must not be named and were looking to prove that we were actually a good team. We were going to prove that the loss was a fluke. What did we do? Barely squeaked out a win in OT against a 1 win team. Continuity is great, but only when you can excel. Im sick of consistently being mediocre. Maybe GW and Saunders can get us over the hump, maybe not. Maybe bringing Fassel and some fresh faces will or maybe they won't. No one knows. I do like how Snyder has taken his time on this, though. From all appearances, it looks like he is trying to make the right decision, even though we may disagree with it. I agree with Sweet Sassy...lets all just relax, sit back, and see what happens. also good points. Right now, this reminds me of the draft day threads. Someone has their heart set on particular player and when he doesn't get picked they predict doom because they didn't get their way. If we were a smooth running team on both sides of the ball and winning 12 or more games every year, then continuity would be best. But, we limped into the playoffs the 2 years we made it recently, plus there were whispers a year ago of how Williams supposedly treated people. - If even some of those things are true, maybe it's better to not waste time trying to force those square pegs in round holes and start over. Fassel, I'm not crazy about, but Rex Ryan I am excited about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterwagen Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Fassel? Hope you're ready for Norval part II. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimster Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 It's only been 4 years lol... he was with the Ravens last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldskool Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Fassel did take the Giants to their last Super Bowl. And Mary Levy took the Bills to their last. Does that mean we should have hired Marv? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richhilljr Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Everyone needs perspective. We all need to take a deep breath and see how this all plays out. The prrof will be in the pudding. If it works, everyone will forget about the anger. If it doesn't, we'll be goign through this again next year. Lets give these guys a chance. It could be a solid coaching staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedro Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 I want a HC/OC/DC that play calling wise will go down fighting if they are going to lose. I want an OC who uses what we have in JC and CP, both IMO very talented players who need to be used right. I want a DC who gets pressure using his line. Not fussed what their names are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stricknine Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Ive been saying this for a couple days now SSM. I agree with you completely. I honestly think our offensive personnel may be better suited to the WCO. Right after Joe stepped down, when I was still caught up in the emotion of getting to the playoffs and believing in the hype about this year, I wanted to just keep on trucking...keep the continuity. But, Ive been looking at alot of things lately and I think we might be really good in a WC type of attack. I keep mentioning the Packers. Their running attack became so effective in the second half of the year because of the short passing and slants. Portis and Betts are both better than Grant. Their receivers are comparable to ours. Small, quick, and shifty. Led the league in YAC. Portis, with his pass blocking, will be great in WCO. In short, I agree with you and think there is plenty of hope to be had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
js99 Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Heard Sonny say on the radio broadcast many a time at the end of the season- "only one team is happy at the end of the year", but at least we as a fanbase of the Redskins could be proud of our teams heart. That we had hope for the next season, that free agent signings would come our way...that we were close. How close are we now? Were two winning streaks in 3 years a mirage related to how "close" we were? Maybe Danny knows more than all the talking heads, that we didnt need continuity, that he just "said" that..... That is was broken..but he just said it "wasnt broken"... I don't know.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 he was with the Ravens last season. Well, I meant as head coach, but your point is even more on-target lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paredskinsfan Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 I want a HC/OC/DC that play calling wise will go down fighting if they are going to lose.I want an OC who uses what we have in JC and CP, both IMO very talented players who need to be used right. I want a DC who gets pressure using his line. Not fussed what their names are. This sums it up for me.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins4ever Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 I can see if Snyder hired Brian Billick or someone with a winning record who has won a Super Bowl. But to hire Fassel is laughable. Regardless of how the Redskins played offensively and defensively, they still played with great heart and were a much better team than their record (9-7) indicated. I don't get Snyder hiring Fassel and Jim Zorn. The current offensive approach isn't bad at all, and the REdskins finished 15th in offense which is not very great, but no where near bad either. Plus Campbell will have to learn yet another system. Snyder is a ball faced liar and contradiction. He stressed continuity, but pulls the worst stunt he's ever pulled, which proves he doesn't know a damn thinking about the NFL, or football because he's a Redskin fan who happens to own the Redskins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkam Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 Fassel? Hope you're ready for Norval part II. If I remember correctly, Fassel pretty much owned Norval when they coached against each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasRoane Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 ...Snyder could have stuck with what's easier and hired GW, he would be loved by the fans and players, but that's not always how you win. Sometimes it takes a gutsy move to win. Will Snyder's move pay off? We can only wait and see. So why don't we just do that? If ANYBODY but Jim Fizzle wasn't going to be the coach I might be inclined to hear you out. You CAN'T be serious man. All I know is, you can knead a piece of dog crap into a brownie. And it's still gonna smell like Dog crap! Anyone that supports this piss-ant owner on this particular move has his/her head in the sand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Sassy Molassy Posted January 24, 2008 Author Share Posted January 24, 2008 If ANYBODY but Jim Fizzle wasn't going to be the coach I might be inclined to hear you out. You CAN'T be serious man. All I know is, you can knead a piece of dog crap into a brownie. And it's still gonna smell like Dog crap! Anyone that supports this piss-ant owner on this particular move has his/her head in the sand. I mean, think about what you're saying. I'm not saying I wanted Fassel, I'm not saying I was excited to hear about him. But that's the emotional side of me. The side that has irrational reactions on a whim as opposed to looking at the full scale view. The cerebral side of me looks at the facts and says that he took a team to the Superbowl, he won the division, he got HCOTY ... twice, he helped lead every QB that he touches to career years (from Elway to Boller), and he's got positives on his report card, but he's also got some negatives ... but so do all the candidates, and says "Anything can happen.". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Let's not underestimate what a change of venue and a few years removed from your first gig can do for a coach. Let's evaluate him on what he does in DC...not what he did 7 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Let's not underestimate what a change of venue and a few years removed from your first gig can do for a coach. Let's evaluate him on what he does in DC...not what he did 7 years ago. That's not the ES way lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 If ANYBODY but Jim Fizzle wasn't going to be the coach I might be inclined to hear you out. You CAN'T be serious man. All I know is, you can knead a piece of dog crap into a brownie. And it's still gonna smell like Dog crap! Anyone that supports this piss-ant owner on this particular move has his/her head in the sand. Fassel had a better record during his time in NY than any of our coaches in the past 15 years. He was also the Coach of the Year twice and went to a SB with a pretty bad team. He didnt pick the players so thats really all he could have done. Our team has made a lot of those brownies since the early 90's. Fassel can't do any worse. But ultimately having Vinnie in the FO will likely be any coach's downfall either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 I can see if Snyder hired Brian Billick or someone with a winning record who has won a Super Bowl. Wait, you'd rather have Billick? The "offensive genius" who never really got an offense together? Sorry, but I'd be more upset if we got him. Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pranger Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Because Fassel has a 7 year track record of mediocrity NFL coach of the year 1997. Led the Giants to the SB. Had Snyder hired a young guy, a Schwartz, Caldwell, somebody like that, I'd be all for it Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselPwr44 Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Let's not underestimate what a change of venue and a few years removed from your first gig can do for a coach. Let's evaluate him on what he does in DC...not what he did 7 years ago. Sure wish that our owner would apply that logic to Gregg Williams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWB Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 What it really comes down to is Sundays in Sept., Oct., Nov., Dec. and hopefully January and February. We make it go on 365 days a year. We have invested our minds, our hearts and our souls into this team over the past 4 years hoping that Joe Gibbs could turn it around in spite of Dan Snyder. By the way, I supported Snyder during this time thinking he could actually stay out of the way. This year was grueling. Now we can look forward to starting over, isn't that just great. We can look forward to giving everyone 2-3 years as an excusebecause they are learning a new system. This is not 6 flags or johnny rockets! This is the team we grew up with and our fathers grew up with. Who knows maybe this will work out for the best. It just seems like snyder would learn just as much about how not to run an organization from peter angelos as to how to run one by watching Joe Gibbs. "Fight for old DC" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knell1906 Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 Synder has everyone fooled. Zorn has had 1 interview and we think he is about to get the OC job? Naw. Fassell will be OC and Ryan will be DC. HC has yet to be identified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingdaddy Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 And the Skins have had a 15 year track record of mediocrity...but at least Fassel's mediocrity includes division titles, playoff births, a Super Bowl appearance, two Coach Of The Year honors, and a winning record. No other coach we've had since 1992 can claim any of that. I didn't know that Fassel was a 2 time Coach of the Year. One thing is for sure, he has had successful seasons in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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