Some telling and Startling comments from Portis

[elkabong82]

Elka....your intelligence is progressing. Actually, you may see the light and the big picture in just a few years more.

So we know that we can have a running game twice as good as we have now, as long as the offensive line is healthy, and Betts is running the ball.

hmmm......what to do? Pay Portis $9 million and pray he doesn't remain injury prone.....or take that $9 million and build the best offensive line in the league.

hmmm....really not that hard now is it?

I am proud of you Elka.....you are learning.:applause:

I'd sooner pay 9 million to an endzone threat, than give the starting nod to a RB that can't be counted on when he's needed the most.

I don't know where you got this "twice as good" crap, but zero TDs times 2 is still zero TDs. Seriously, it's like Betts has endzone-a-phobia.

Last season was the only occurrence of CP missing games due to injury. He has been dinged up, but most RBs get dinged up throughout the season. So the injury-prone comment is bogus.

Good job of reading all those stats and sticking with blind ignorance.

[McD5]

I'd sooner pay 9 million to an endzone threat, than give the starting nod to a RB that can't be counted on when he's needed the most.

I don't know where you got this "twice as good" crap, but zero TDs times 2 is still zero TDs. Seriously, it's like Betts has endzone-a-phobia.

Last season was the only occurrence of CP missing games due to injury. He has been dinged up, but most RBs get dinged up throughout the season. So the injury-prone comment is bogus.

Good job of reading all those stats and sticking with blind ignorance.

An endzone threat? Don't you mean an injury threat? Or a fumbling threat? Or a "give me the spotlight, I want special treament above all other players" threat?

It really comes down to a simple decision--do you want a potentially great player when he is healthy and serious? Or do you want a great team?

I want a great team. $9 million spent on Portis prevents that from happening.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I'd sooner pay 9 million to an endzone threat, than give the starting nod to a RB that can't be counted on when he's needed the most.

I don't know where you got this "twice as good" crap, but zero TDs times 2 is still zero TDs. Seriously, it's like Betts has endzone-a-phobia.

Last season was the only occurrence of CP missing games due to injury. He has been dinged up, but most RBs get dinged up throughout the season. So the injury-prone comment is bogus.

Good job of reading all those stats and sticking with blind ignorance.

I don't want to get too involved in your scuffle with McD, but there is a difference between playing dinged and allowing your injuries to affect your play. I think it's pretty obvious that CP hasn't been the same since 2005...he might get back to that point, but he's not just playing through pain...he's still hurt and you can tell.

[tr1]

An endzone threat? Don't you mean an injury threat? Or a fumbling threat? Or a "give me the spotlight, I want special treament above all other players" threat?

It really comes down to a simple decision--do you want a potentially great player when he is healthy and serious? Or do you want a great team?

I want a great team. $9 million spent on Portis prevents that from happening.

Frankly, I don't have a problem with a fan having this take on Portis.

But, I think it's obvious that his tendinitis is affecting his performance...and for that reason, he should be given the benefit of the doubt.

I do...injuries simply impact performance...there's no getting around that. If he's healthy, he's money.

:2cents:

[mi6]

CP is getting a glimse of reality.

All his pouting and ridiculing practise etc is coming to bite him in the kester. All he needs to do is produce, and not fumble. The rest will take care of itself.

If he wants out - so be it! The Skins would be better off ... no need to have a player here, who doesn't want to be. Besides, he has been injury prone - and, the Skins maybe better served getting a bruising running back with speed ... some body like LT, of EJ.

[skinsn24]

um , are you blind? ... he's wasn't hurt? Look at how he limps off the field every other play because his knee , the same knee that was hurt in pre season , is still giving him fits

No, portis said this week he is "finally getting into football shape" Maybe that comment should clue you into that him limping off every week with the knee could be him not being used to being hit and not being in shape?

[skinsn24]

Wrong.

Right. Keep in mind, Skins24, that Portis was the best young back in the league at the time, having just set the all time league record for yards in his first 3 seasons.

Wong? How am i wrong? I simply stated franchise tag= 2 first rounders.

2 first rounders + second round for portis.

That is correct. Bailey would have been forced to play with the franchise tag (briggs?)

Now if you really want to know why bailey was "out of here" (which is cleary not true given the tag) it was because we gave Lavar essentially the exact contract Bailey wanted. Once that money was given to lavar, we didnt have the room to give bailey a huge deal. it pissed him off as it should have, all that said, he was still franchised tagged.

Remember Portis was rushing for denver during those 3 years.

[Chachie]

Honestly? I don't like the way CP comes off in interviews ever. His manner makes him seem like he doesn't care about anything. I do know however, that he leaves it all on the field know matter if he's hurt, out of shape, or just struggling with his game. We get a portion of one of those 3 problems every week, but I also know we get everything he can give us. I just can't wait to see a problem-free CP and I don't know if we're ever gonna get it. It's a shame because I see the effort in the games but there's always something there holding him back. More zone running plays and more screen passes are what he needs. Clinton Portis running between the tackles is no longer very effective.

[BigMike619]

Honestly? I don't like the way CP comes off in interviews ever. His manner makes him seem like he doesn't care about anything. I do know however, that he leaves it all on the field know matter if he's hurt, out of shape, or just struggling with his game. We get a portion of one of those 3 problems every week, but I also know we get everything he can give us. I just can't wait to see a problem-free CP and I don't know if we're ever gonna get it. It's a shame because I see the effort in the games but there's always something there holding him back. More zone running plays and more screen passes are what he needs. Clinton Portis running between the tackles is no longer very effective.

You just described Manny Ramirez too. They just dont know how to play the media game but you KNOW when it comes to game time they are going to give you all they have and never slack off.

I wish we could get a problem free CP too, but you are right, i dont think that is going to happen any time soon if at all.

[skinsn24]

Boy you're a stubborn son of a gun aren't ya? How about read what I wrote: HE WAS INJURED. The whole world did not know he was ok.

Here's a quote from JLC during camp:

"CP Update (and other injuries, too)

Portis will be working on his conditioning and strengthening the area around his swollen right knee for the time being. Would be very surprising if he were to practice anytime before next Monday and Bubba Tyer, director of sports medicine, laughed when someone suggested Clinton might participate in the scrimmage Saturday in Baltimore.

No way they're going to risk anything there.

So it's a setback, but, the Redskins say, a minor setback and something not uncommon for a football player trying to get back into full playing shape after a lengthy absence due to tendinitis. Once Portis started cutting and turning and exposing the knee to contact, the knee was aggravated and discomfort set in.

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=204874

Portis tried to practice, but was held out for precautionary measures. This is really not very hard to understand. Keep in mind that he also suffered a broken collarbone and broken hand in the previous season. Do you really think that making him participate in 2 a days in July would have been a good thing?

:laugh: :laugh:

First of all this team has one of the lighest camps in the NFL not many 2 a days, but a few.

Now here is what i meant that Portis was not truely injuried:

So he enters Week 1 off of 4 practices and that's it. After saying how Portis could have played the last three preseason games if need be, and playing everything down, the guy ends up missing basically the entire preseason save for like 5 practices.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2007/08/no_go_for_portis.html

Now maybe if he had practiced more he wouldnt have been out of shape so far, oh no not maybe, he said it this week, thats right.

[The Full Monty]

How is this startling?

He knows he's gone if he doesn't perform, just like anyone else.

Except Brandon Lloyd..

[essex03]

Isnt it funny how Portis keeps referencing Tomlinson when he talks about himself?

THIS JUST IN: Portis AND Tomlinson have hindered their teams progress in the first six weeks of the season.

Its a shame when the player puts himself before the team.

You dont see this stuff happening with Peyton Manning and Marvin Harrison every year. Thats why they are World Champions and currently undefeated. :2cents:

[BigMike619]

Isnt it funny how Portis keeps referencing Tomlinson when he talks about himself?

THIS JUST IN: Portis AND Tomlinson have hindered their teams progress in the first six weeks of the season.

Its a shame when the player puts himself before the team.

You dont see this stuff happening with Peyton Manning and Marvin Harrison every year. Thats why they are World Champions and currently undefeated. :2cents:

LT has hindered his team? teams have been lining up 8, 9 in the box because Rivers is hindering his team. LT just hasnt been able to get anywhere. And I would suggest you check the Denver and Oakland games before you go off saying hes held them back for 6 weeks.

[illone]

Isnt it funny how Portis keeps referencing Tomlinson when he talks about himself?

THIS JUST IN: Portis AND Tomlinson have hindered their teams progress in the first six weeks of the season.

Its a shame when the player puts himself before the team.

You dont see this stuff happening with Peyton Manning and Marvin Harrison every year. Thats why they are World Champions and currently undefeated. :2cents:

This is just ridiculous and should be for another thread but I'm going to correct you anyways.

Norv is the reason why SD faltered in the beginning of 2007, not LT's practice habits. If it was LT then explain why he had the same routine in 2006 and broke an NFL record to become the MVP, :laugh:

I'd have a hard time finding any SD fans who question LT's attitude so why is it different with Skins fans and CP?

[skinsn24]

I'd have a hard time finding any SD fans who question LT's attitude so why is it different with Skins fans and CP?

Portis is not LT not even close. Hence the difference when evaluating both fo there actions. To think they are similair....:laugh:

[TotalRecall]

I don't think being out of shape is his problem. He looks banged up. They need to let Betts carry the load until Portis heals.

[Thoth]

1. Portis is the franchise record holder for most rushing yards in a season. So I think he has worked correctly in the system. However, he was injured all of 2006, and was sidelined halfway through the season. So now, some people view Portis as diminishing, eventhough it's not the case. Most athletes fall under this viewpoint when they've been injured, and it's wrong.

2. In 2004, CP put up 1300+ yards, in 2005 he put up 1500+ yards. Injury is the only thing that halted his prodcution. This year, he is missing half his o-line, so it's been a little slow going. He has, however, put up a TD in the majority of the games thus far.

3. Portis has been hobbled by injury, so to act surprised that he's now getting into "football shape" is bogus. It's to be expected. It seems all you "realists" don't understand that injuries limit production, and holding an injured player's production up to the standard of a healthy player's production is unfair and lame.

4. A lot of you are never going to "get" that Bailey wanted out of here, and we got, at the time, good value for Bailey. The best way to judge a player is by the impact he has on the team. Since Bailey left, our D has been a top 10 unit with the exception of one injury-plagued season. Since CP arrived, he's helped get our team to the playoffs, and set a franchise record. So, our team benefitted from the trade, despite how much a lot of you want to criticize it.

5. Our team is the master at the salary cap. If they really wanted CP gone, they would do it. CP is one of the best running backs in the NFL, and has certain intangibles the "dime a dozen" RBs will probably never have. Also, Rock is solid on special teams. He's one of the tops in the NFL last year and right now in average return yards. But you're right, let's trade a top NFL running back, and rely on our practice squad running back because he looked good in a couple preseason games. Mason isn't on the roster because there isn't room right now. There are more opressing needs than a 4th RB.

In all likelyhood, if you're coach the team goes 1-15. Sellers is a big dude, and using him to "soften up" the D every game is going to wear him down by the end of the season, when you need your best players the most. Funny how most were claiming Betts was a "Gibbs RB" and now the supporters have abandoned him. You're not a GM, so you're not looking at anyone with "GMs perspective." You're looking at them through the eyes of a pessimist, err... "realist." Cuz nothing's more real than doubting your team at every turn.

Good stuff. 1-15 is funny. I honestly think I could really coach the guys up and go 3-13. Booyah!

I was never sold on Betts, but the rest is interesting, always good to have discussion and have your viewpoints questioned. I think without dominating OL, Betts is an average back. . .

Cartwright, special teams is why he is here, no doubt, you are probably right there, but I wouldn't trust him to produce consistently at RB position. . .Or protect the ball at RB position. . .

Portis was hurt last year, and he's hurt this year. . .if he's hurt most of the rest of this year, you have to begin to ask the durability question. Hope it won't come to that and he gets healthy. Portis is talented, and will produce is any system, but that doesn't mean he is being used in optimal way. . .

You can give me any reason you want. . .and call it a 1/3 of season, or 5/16. . .it is still disconcerting to have a marquee player just starting to hit his stride. . .does "football shape" involve holding onto the ball. . .

I don't have the stats, but I bet if you look at BIG plays in Denver, versus here, for Portis, there isn't even a comparison. The fact that Portis is a team guy who does what the coach says, and is producing, does not mean we are using him in the ideal way.

If it isn't Sellers, it needs to be someone, methinks. A big, mashing back to complement Portis. Second choice, one with some genuine speed or elusiveness, ala Mason. . .

You have some good points, but the one thing I'll NEVER concede is that, whether Bailey wanted out or not, trading him AND a 2nd rounder for CP was a good trade. The franchise tag gives you a lot of leverage, and it could have been used. It just wasn't a good trade. Period. Bailey straight up for CP, maybe. Trades like that are why we don't have any back-up linemen. . .we consistently overpay in salary and picks. . .Portis, Lloyd, Duckett, etc. I can't think of another team that would trade a franchise CB for a RB, AND throw in a 2nd round pick. We got robbed. I think CP is a very good back, but not a HOFer. When it is all said and done, Bailey may be.

With Springs gone next year, we'll be drafting ANOTHER corner, or signing one. Plus Mr. Bust Rogers, loved that pinball bumper non-tackle that led to TD.

I didn't say trade Portis. I said trade Betts, and have Mason behind Portis, see what he can do. . .Maybe he isn't the answer, but Betts looks lackluster, and we aren't finding out. . .

Our team is NOT the master of the salary cap. Dallas is 5-1 and is 10 million under the cap, for example. We are (or were) the master of overpaying and mortgaging the future indefinitely. We are one of the highest teams in dead cap money almost every year. Thankfully this has lessened. Each year we shift the day of reckoning forward by restructuring, with the price that cutting guys becomes ever more expensive because they have more upfront money paid out. Other teams with money under the cap put themselves in better positions so they can cut guys when they suck and not worry about the cap. Wouldn't it be great to be 8 million under the cap next year, extend Sean Taylor, and have a huge portion of his long term deal paid out IN THAT year. . .then you have a great player at a reasonable cost for upcoming years. . .

It is tough not to second guess a team that is so inconsistent, and whose coaches seem so befuddled at the worst possible moment. That being said, I hope the Skins win, and the Cowboys drop one before we play them so we're in the hunt.

[elkabong82]

Wong? How am i wrong? I simply stated franchise tag= 2 first rounders.

2 first rounders + second round for portis.

That is correct. Bailey would have been forced to play with the franchise tag (briggs?)

Now if you really want to know why bailey was "out of here" (which is cleary not true given the tag) it was because we gave Lavar essentially the exact contract Bailey wanted. Once that money was given to lavar, we didnt have the room to give bailey a huge deal. it pissed him off as it should have, all that said, he was still franchised tagged.

Remember Portis was rushing for denver during those 3 years.

That is wrong, as in it's the wrong way to look at things. Very rarely does a team actually give up 2 first rounders for a tagged player. At the time of the trade, Bailey was a good CB, but he certainly wasn't the best in the NFL. This is why we didn't have any good offers when we tagged him. Also, you're trying to equate Portis with 2 first rounders, when we never lost or gained those 2 first rounders.

I'll say this one more time, and then I'm done. When it comes to a trade, you have to examine cost and benefit. We gave up Champ and a 2nd rounder. Denver gave up Portis. Denver's D improved, and Bailey became one of the best at his position. Denver's running game hasn't been near as good as it was with Portis. Our run game improved, CP set a franchise record, and carried the team into the playoffs. Our D improved w/o Bailey, unlike Denver's run game w/o CP. We lost a 2nd rounder, and if we had kept it, whatever player we got would be a hypothetical situation, which doesn't apply when you are having a fact-based argument. Denver got Tatum Bell, who only rushed for over 1000 yards once.

[dcsportsclown]

Portis hasn't brought his big play ability over from Denver. I talked about this a little bit on dcsportsclowns.blogspot.com . He's a great guy to have on the team and I want to keep him, because I know if healthy he can be the go to guy we need with the rock. All these guys have to test the waters in free agency and nothing is guaranteed in the NFL so that's the only reason he said "If I'm with the team next year" but I expect him to be in washington for a long time.

Going to my first game this year this week!! Look out Cardinals!

:point2sky :point2sky :point2sky :point2sky

[elkabong82]

Good stuff. 1-15 is funny. I honestly think I could really coach the guys up and go 3-13. Booyah!

I was never sold on Betts, but the rest is interesting, always good to have discussion and have your viewpoints questioned. I think without dominating OL, Betts is an average back. . .

Cartwright, special teams is why he is here, no doubt, you are probably right there, but I wouldn't trust him to produce consistently at RB position. . .Or protect the ball at RB position. . .

Portis was hurt last year, and he's hurt this year. . .if he's hurt most of the rest of this year, you have to begin to ask the durability question. Hope it won't come to that and he gets healthy. Portis is talented, and will produce is any system, but that doesn't mean he is being used in optimal way. . .

You can give me any reason you want. . .and call it a 1/3 of season, or 5/16. . .it is still disconcerting to have a marquee player just starting to hit his stride. . .does "football shape" involve holding onto the ball. . .

I don't have the stats, but I bet if you look at BIG plays in Denver, versus here, for Portis, there isn't even a comparison. The fact that Portis is a team guy who does what the coach says, and is producing, does not mean we are using him in the ideal way.

If it isn't Sellers, it needs to be someone, methinks. A big, mashing back to complement Portis. Second choice, one with some genuine speed or elusiveness, ala Mason. . .

You have some good points, but the one thing I'll NEVER concede is that, whether Bailey wanted out or not, trading him AND a 2nd rounder for CP was a good trade. The franchise tag gives you a lot of leverage, and it could have been used. It just wasn't a good trade. Period. Bailey straight up for CP, maybe. Trades like that are why we don't have any back-up linemen. . .we consistently overpay in salary and picks. . .Portis, Lloyd, Duckett, etc. I can't think of another team that would trade a franchise CB for a RB, AND throw in a 2nd round pick. We got robbed. I think CP is a very good back, but not a HOFer. When it is all said and done, Bailey may be.

With Springs gone next year, we'll be drafting ANOTHER corner, or signing one. Plus Mr. Bust Rogers, loved that pinball bumper non-tackle that led to TD.

I didn't say trade Portis. I said trade Betts, and have Mason behind Portis, see what he can do. . .Maybe he isn't the answer, but Betts looks lackluster, and we aren't finding out. . .

Our team is NOT the master of the salary cap. Dallas is 5-1 and is 10 million under the cap, for example. We are (or were) the master of overpaying and mortgaging the future indefinitely. We are one of the highest teams in dead cap money almost every year. Thankfully this has lessened. Each year we shift the day of reckoning forward by restructuring, with the price that cutting guys becomes ever more expensive because they have more upfront money paid out. Other teams with money under the cap put themselves in better positions so they can cut guys when they suck and not worry about the cap. Wouldn't it be great to be 8 million under the cap next year, extend Sean Taylor, and have a huge portion of his long term deal paid out IN THAT year. . .then you have a great player at a reasonable cost for upcoming years. . .

It is tough not to second guess a team that is so inconsistent, and whose coaches seem so befuddled at the worst possible moment. That being said, I hope the Skins win, and the Cowboys drop one before we play them so we're in the hunt.

I agree Rock probably shouldn't be carrying the ball, but as a 3rd RB, he rarely does carry it anyway.

I also agree that if the injury problems keep up, we will have to look at other RBs. But, Portis knows this too. If he's banged up all the time, he won't produce. He himself even said that if he doesn't produce he could get the axe.

Maybe CP isn't used in the most optimal way, but he is used in a good way. The coaches have certain philosophy's, and they aren't going to completely change them for one player, especially if the rest of your team isn't the right personell for that change. At the time, CP had some monster seasons, and I'm sure Gibbs figured a back with his talents would adapt to the system. CP broke the franchise record for rushing yards in a season, so Gibbs was right in that aspect.

Yes it would be nice if CP had hit his stride earlier this season, but he is coming off of injuries, so him not being fully ready was actually somewhat expected. The fumbles are a concern, but it hasn't been a consistent problem with Portis, so unless it keeps up throughout the season, I don't think it's an issue.

The big plays in Denver are part of the system. Like I said, you have to have the right personnel for that system change, and a coach who is familiar with it. Again, CP set a franchise record with us. So while the big plays aren't as consistent, CP is being used in an effective way. A way that doesn't require the rest of the team, or coaches, to sacrifice the current system and scheme.

I wouldn't mind a big back spelling CP either.

The Bailey thing we'll have to agree to disagree. I'm so very tired of arguing about it anymore. Bottom line, we benefitted from the trade, and our D actually improved without Bailey, so I have no problems with the trade. The rest in that paragraph would take too much time to debate and would stray us off topic.

Rogers isn't a bust. Since he's been here, the D has been a top 10 unit, save for one season filled with injuries. That bump play wasn't good, but nobody is perfect. Rogers is part of the best pass defense in the league mind you.

I meant we are masters at the cap when it comes to getting other players in, and trading/releasing our players who have bad cap hits. The team has been getting better about conducting business since Gibbs came back though.

I can understand second-guessing. But some on here take it to heights of ridiculousness. I'm hopeful about this team because we have added young players at key positions, and as long as the team continues to gel, this season could be the start of great things to come.

I hope the Skins win also, and I hope Dallas loses the rest of their games. HTTR!

[skinsn24]

That is wrong, as in it's the wrong way to look at things. Very rarely does a team actually give up 2 first rounders for a tagged player. At the time of the trade, Bailey was a good CB, but he certainly wasn't the best in the NFL. This is why we didn't have any good offers when we tagged him. Also, you're trying to equate Portis with 2 first rounders, when we never lost or gained those 2 first rounders.

I'll say this one more time, and then I'm done. When it comes to a trade, you have to examine cost and benefit. We gave up Champ and a 2nd rounder. Denver gave up Portis. Denver's D improved, and Bailey became one of the best at his position. Denver's running game hasn't been near as good as it was with Portis. Our run game improved, CP set a franchise record, and carried the team into the playoffs. Our D improved w/o Bailey, unlike Denver's run game w/o CP. We lost a 2nd rounder, and if we had kept it, whatever player we got would be a hypothetical situation, which doesn't apply when you are having a fact-based argument. Denver got Tatum Bell, who only rushed for over 1000 yards once.

It is off topic to debate this here but no you are not looking at it correctly.

Saying the skins D got better without bailey is fine and saying that both teams benefited is fine, but that does not go to the point of the actual value of the trade.

The value cleary went with the broncos. The trade worked out well for both teams, this i agree with, but we got owned in value, every gm would tell you that.

We had all the levarge, Bailey was franchised, you can say that means he isnt worth 2 first rounders, but for him to leave via FA that is what it would take. He wouldnt sit out because that solves nothing.

When it comes down to it the real mistake was giving lavar the contract instead of bailey, plain and simple.

[RedskinsInFebruary]

You know what would be really nice?

Once again having a running back like John Riggins or Earnest Byner that simply goes to work on Sunday and runs the damn ball without complaint

Offseason work, no offseason work, preseason carries, no preseason carries............

just go out and produce and STFU.

why does everything with this team have to be like a damn soap opera?

No internet forums back then....

[RedskinsInFebruary]

CP is fat and lazy. He's one of the top highest paid backs in the league, yet he dogs it all through training camp and takes himself out of the game whenever he feels like it. He's **just now** getting into game shape, six weeks into the season?!

Don't get me wrong, the guy has all the talent in the world. But he's lazy.

I think this is an irresponsible assessment. Here's a guy who got hurt going full-throttle in a preseason game, and got injured. Any rational person might re-evaluate a lot of things from an experience like that.

[NVskinsfan]

If it has to be, he will be traded in the off season.....count on it!!!

Cap ramififcations....big deal we trade for a #1 or a #2 and #3

[2006Skins]

If it has to be, he will be traded in the off season.....count on it!!!

Cap ramififcations....big deal we trade for a #1 or a #2 and #3

Don't count on it... JG has loyalty to those players that sacrifice the way CP has. If anything, CP will be released so he can chose where to go to prove himself again. I don't think/don't want this to happen because I think when CP is healthy he is a top 5 top-10 back.