LegionOfDoom Posted September 30, 2007 Share Posted September 30, 2007 Man i hoped for a better fight than that from taylor. Man.....a better fight from Taylor would have meant a snooze fest of a fight. I'm happy it went the way it did. During the 2nd round I was thinking Taylor had him and Pavlik was some Boxing fodder like most fighters in this situation. Man I was wrong and am happy I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted September 30, 2007 Share Posted September 30, 2007 Good night of fights. Props to Pavlik. I hope there's a rematch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted September 30, 2007 Share Posted September 30, 2007 Oh i know he brings the power, i just dont see the muscle definition. Mind boggling. You don't need muscle definition to be a knockout artist. I have knocked several big musclehead guys on their asses over the years. I was toned back then (played basketball all the time) but certainly not definitively muscular or big. Taylor got exposed for not being aggressive, not being crisp with his blows, fighting the other guys fight, terrible footwork, etc. He looked bad for most of the fight. There is no way he could even stack up to most of the guys from the 80's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted September 30, 2007 Share Posted September 30, 2007 You don't need muscle definition to be a knockout artist. I have knocked several big musclehead guys on their asses over the years. I was toned back then (played basketball all the time) but certainly not definitively muscular or big. Taylor got exposed for not being aggressive, not being crisp with his blows, fighting the other guys fight, terrible footwork, etc. He looked bad for most of the fight. There is no way he could even stack up to most of the guys from the 80's. Taylor wasn't technically good tonight, but he was still landing shots. even when Pavlik backed him up against the ropes Taylor managed to fight him off (the exception being the KO). Even though he was defeated, Taylor still looked good in this fight. Nobody has ever hit Pavlik with that many clean shots, and nobody ever had him in as much danger as Taylor did in the 2nd. I think this fight says more about how great of a fighter Pavlik rather than Taylor being "exposed" or something like that. IMO, Taylor needs to consider switching trainers. Since teaming up with Steward, Taylor has regressed as a fighter. I cannot name a single area of Taylor's game that has improved since training with Steward. Steward is a hof trainer, but the chemistry is still not there between the two. Taylor will need to correct a host of things if he wishes to get back to his championship level. Just look at tapes of Taylor before his fights with B-Hop when he was still a prospect, and compare that with the fighter you see today. It's night and day, almost two completely different fighters.:2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegionOfDoom Posted September 30, 2007 Share Posted September 30, 2007 Taylor wasn't technically good tonight, but he was still landing shots. even when Pavlik backed him up against the ropes Taylor managed to fight him off (the exception being the KO). Even though he was defeated, Taylor still looked good in this fight. Nobody has ever hit Pavlik with that many clean shots, and nobody ever had him in as much danger as Taylor did in the 2nd. I think this fight says more about how great of a fighter Pavlik rather than Taylor being "exposed" or something like that.IMO, Taylor needs to consider switching trainers. Since teaming up with Steward, Taylor has regressed as a fighter. I cannot name a single area of Taylor's game that has improved since training with Steward. Steward is a hof trainer, but the chemistry is still not there between the two. Taylor will need to correct a host of things if he wishes to get back to his championship level. Just look at tapes of Taylor before his fights with B-Hop when he was still a prospect, and compare that with the fighter you see today. It's night and day, almost two completely different fighters.:2cents: You are right on with your post. and B. Hop would have destroyed Pavlik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted September 30, 2007 Share Posted September 30, 2007 You are right on with your post.and B. Hop would have destroyed Pavlik i don't know about B-Hop beating Pavlik. B-Hop doesn't have the power to force Pavlik to stay outside. I think Pavlik would walk B-Hop down and catch him with something that drops him late in the rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted September 30, 2007 Share Posted September 30, 2007 Just because you are landing some shots doesn't mean you fought a good fight. Taylor fought 2 good rounds 2nd and 5th. The rest of the fight he was getting pushed around the ring and forced to play defense as opposed to attacking. He was taking Pavlik's jab for most of the fight, he slid a lot but blocked very few. It stifled the way that Taylor should have fought. Pavlik was sliding and blocking Jermain's jab seemingly more often. I agree about Stewart somewhat, mainly because he is more cerebral, and Taylor needs polishing the skills he does have before he can take it to that next level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegionOfDoom Posted September 30, 2007 Share Posted September 30, 2007 i don't know about B-Hop beating Pavlik. B-Hop doesn't have the power to force Pavlik to stay outside. I think Pavlik would walk B-Hop down and catch him with something that drops him late in the rounds. I guess I should have said 2 years ago. But B. Hop is a precise hitting machine. He lost because of the heart and talent of Taylor. Taylor just didn't have the heart and Pavlik did. Props to Pavlik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarhog Posted September 30, 2007 Share Posted September 30, 2007 Taylor wasn't technically good tonight, but he was still landing shots. even when Pavlik backed him up against the ropes Taylor managed to fight him off (the exception being the KO). Even though he was defeated, Taylor still looked good in this fight. Nobody has ever hit Pavlik with that many clean shots, and nobody ever had him in as much danger as Taylor did in the 2nd. I think this fight says more about how great of a fighter Pavlik rather than Taylor being "exposed" or something like that.IMO, Taylor needs to consider switching trainers. Since teaming up with Steward, Taylor has regressed as a fighter. I cannot name a single area of Taylor's game that has improved since training with Steward. Steward is a hof trainer, but the chemistry is still not there between the two. Taylor will need to correct a host of things if he wishes to get back to his championship level. Just look at tapes of Taylor before his fights with B-Hop when he was still a prospect, and compare that with the fighter you see today. It's night and day, almost two completely different fighters.:2cents: I agree with you - Taylor hardly looked weak in this fight. Although Pavlik looked like a solid opponent throughout and certainly got his shots in early, you had to think Taylor had the upper hand up until that last round. Where I differ is thinking that Stewart is the problem. I doubt seriously Stewart was telling Taylor to let himself get backed into the corner and stay there. All Taylor had to do in this fight was to keep some distance, box, and stay out of the corner. And I'm guessing that was the plan. Taylor just didn't follow the game plan. I think he probably didn't really believe that Pavlik could hurt him. Now he knows. The only thing I've noticed about Stewart (as a trainer) is that I don't believe he's a guy who can get his boxer's attention and get him fired up during a fight. He's a technical trainer, not an emotional one. I've rarely seen him intervene in a fight to get his boxer's attention as I have some of the more aggressive trainers. I think he's a very knowledgeable guy, but when a) the boxer's not following the plan, or the plan goes to ****, I'm not sure thats really Emmanuel Stewart's strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted September 30, 2007 Share Posted September 30, 2007 The only thing I've noticed about Stewart (as a trainer) is that I don't believe he's a guy who can get his boxer's attention and get him fired up during a fight. He's a technical trainer, not an emotional one. I've rarely seen him intervene in a fight to get his boxer's attention as I have some of the more aggressive trainers. I think he's a very knowledgeable guy, but when a) the boxer's not following the plan, or the plan goes to ****, I'm not sure thats really Emmanuel Stewart's strength. In taylor's fight against Spinks, Stewart was pretty fired up. i was half expecting Steward to slap taylor after the 9th round :laugh: but i agree with you general point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagleskins Posted September 30, 2007 Share Posted September 30, 2007 Pavlik is the much better fighter. Taylor caught him with a lucky shot in the 2nd. But Pav has so much more power than Taylor. Pav would have killed Hop tonight as well. I don't see Pav getting beat ever in this division. Way TOO much power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted September 30, 2007 Share Posted September 30, 2007 Just because you are landing some shots doesn't mean you fought a good fight. Taylor fought 2 good rounds 2nd and 5th. The rest of the fight he was getting pushed around the ring and forced to play defense as opposed to attacking.He was taking Pavlik's jab for most of the fight, he slid a lot but blocked very few. It stifled the way that Taylor should have fought. Pavlik was sliding and blocking Jermain's jab seemingly more often. :applause: This is the fight I saw. Jermain couldn't get out of the way of Kelly's brutal jab. Pavlik starting moving forward with purpose after round 2 and this confounded Taylor. Also, Kelly didn't work the body until round 6. Once he started to do that, Taylor became a lot less mobile. I was shocked at the KO, but in retrospect I should have seen it coming due to the pace Pavlik set after he went down. He stalked and bombed until he caught Jermain on a low tank. That first right hand to begin the knockout was awesome. You could see Jermain bounce to the right with birdies flying around his head. From there it was all up to Kelly to finish and he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sir Posted September 30, 2007 Share Posted September 30, 2007 Pavlik is the much better fighter. Taylor caught him with a lucky shot in the 2nd. But Pav has so much more power than Taylor. Pav would have killed Hop tonight as well. I don't see Pav getting beat ever in this division. Way TOO much power. B Hop is too good of a boxer for him. ****, you saw the scorecards tonight, the judges had Pavlik up way ahead. He needed the stoppage and he got it. You're banking on Pavlik being able to stop Hopkins? Not going to happen. How many times has he been stopped in 20 years of boxing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Sick Posted September 30, 2007 Share Posted September 30, 2007 As long as Emmanuel Stewart is in Taylor's corner, I will take Taylor. I think Stewart is the best trainer in boxing, but he has really messed up with Taylor. Overconfidence, saying before the fight that Pavlik didn't belong in the ring with Jermain. The main point is that Taylor still hasn't learned to fight off the ropes. You back that guy into the ropes, like Winky did, and he gets pummeled. Disappointing that Stewart never fixed that. Great fight, though. I might actually watch it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bofluid Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 This has to be mentioned as a fight of the year candidate right along with Marquez/Vazquez I and II and Kid Diamond/Huerta. Both fighters displayed huge amounts of heart and courage and put on a display that both casual and hardcore fight fans can appreciate. On the preview show analysts were saying that this would be a throwback fight, and they were right. This seems like the closest thing to a throwback fight that we'll see for a while. I've never liked Jermain Taylor, but he gained more of my respect with this loss than in any of his "wins" over Hopkins, Spinks and Ouma. If JT had went to the body instead of headhunting when Pavlik was in trouble he very likely would have had the Ghost down for the count in the second. I felt genuinely bad for Taylor in his interview after the fight. He really seemed to be in disbelief that he lost. I appreciated his candor too in admitting to Larry that he felt that he was losing the fight prior to getting knocked out. His double jab is an underrated weapon. Pavlik has the fighting style, background and personality to be a huge star in this sport. He can dominate the middleweight division for years to come if he stays healthy and hungry. I really hope he doesn't venture up to the super middleweight division. The likes of Calzaghe, Kessler and Mundine would be too much for him to handle. As much as I'd love to see a rematch I believe that Pavlik versus Arthur Abraham could have the potential to be an even better match. Taylor and Pavlik are both young. They'll have plenty of time in the future to fight again. Pavlik and Hopkins will never happen, but prime Bernard dominates Pavlik. If they fought today I'd have to take Pavlik by decision just because of the volume of his punches. Hopkins doesn't throw enough punches anymore to score enough against a guy like the Ghost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEavyJumbo85 Posted November 4, 2007 Author Share Posted November 4, 2007 Bumped for Calzaghe vs. Kessler...should be a great fight, and it's on regular HBO too for those of us that despise shelling out the big bucks for their PPVs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEavyJumbo85 Posted November 4, 2007 Author Share Posted November 4, 2007 getting underway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanos Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 Joe did his thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEavyJumbo85 Posted November 4, 2007 Author Share Posted November 4, 2007 Damn, that was a great fight even though Calzaghe was so dominant...If B-Hop really wants a piece of Joe, good luck to him, because anyone who fights Joe Calzaghe will be walking into a buzzsaw. Even at his age he is still one of the best fighters in the world, heck he probably is the best fighter in the world. Kessler is a pretty damn good fighter, and Calzaghe absolutely destroyed him. I'm really don't think that anyone can beat Calzaghe right now, he's just that good. edit: Kessler said he wanted a rematch after the fight...i'm really not sure why. Calzaghe absolutley outclassed him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEavyJumbo85 Posted November 4, 2007 Author Share Posted November 4, 2007 Calzaghe wants B-Hop...let's see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illone Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 I tivo'd the fight. Can't wait to watch it later. I won a nice little pile on it, too. Calzaghe is a force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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