While Were on the Subject of Black QBs...

[Fat Stupid Loser]

^^^ throughout history, it has been unorthodox to have black players at any position, so how have black players integrated into every other position, but not QB?

There are tons of black QB's. High school, college, pro. Tons of black coaches. Why does this debate continue? We are way past it. I have to wonder about those who still find it an issue.

[stwasm]

There are tons of black QB's. High school, college, pro. Tons of black coaches. Why does this debate continue? We are way past it. I have to wonder about those who still find it an issue.

Actually, only four of the 119 Division I-A schools' head coaches are black. Additionally, the number of black coaches in the NFL didn't even begin to increase until after the Rooney Rule was passed a few years ago. Those numbers, plus the fact that we're still talking about it, shows that we are far from "way past it."

[DjTj]

I always found it interesting that with an emphasis being placed on black quarterbacks and black coaches that (correct me if im wrong) there is only one black quarterback on a black coaches depth chart that being Charlie Batch, and of the black coaches who have coached at least one year not one has a black quarterback on their roster, let alone starting. I personally dont know why this is and definitely will not call these coaches characters into question or their abilities since they seem to be great coaches but you would think at least one black qb could get at least a 3rd string role on one of their rosters. Again I don't know why this is or even if they have the decision on their front office moves but just thought i'd put it out there.

Why would you expect black coaches to have black quarterbacks? Do you expect white coaches to have white quarterbacks? Is Jack Del Rio doing something wrong because all of his quarterbacks in the past few years have been black?

I think what this shows us is that the reason there are still a relatively low number of black quarterbacks is not racism. Tony Dungy, Lovie Smith, Herm Edwards, Marvin Lewis, and Romeo Crennel are not keeping black QB's off their teams because they are racist; they are simply keeping the best QB's they have, whether they are black or white. Because of historical reasons, and possibly racism at lower levels, there are simply more qualified white QB's at this time. It's also important to note that black coaches also aren't signing black QB's to their roster just because they are black, so there's no affirmative action going on here.

The phenomenon of no black QB's on black coaches' teams (except Charlie Batch) is just another piece of evidence showing that there is very little explicit racism in the process of making an NFL roster. Now there may be implicit racial effects (and both past racism and racism at lower levels), but explicit racism among NFL coaches is not something we have to worry about anymore.

[BigMike619]

who really cares , there are no and I mean NO white RBs , there are no japenese TEs , there aren't any women playing football .... if you win you stay if you lose you go , ...

seems to me that i should call up HBO and have them put me on real sports about how few white WR's there are.

[Fat Stupid Loser]

Actually, only four of the 119 Division I-A schools' head coaches are black. Additionally, the number of black coaches in the NFL didn't even begin to increase until after the Rooney Rule was passed a few years ago. Those numbers, plus the fact that we're still talking about it, shows that we are far from "way past it."

Well I'll have to look up your college numbers. Assuming they are accurate, how many should there be? 13 would make it proportional to the population. I would consider that a horrible way to go about it. What number makes it fair or a color blind society?

You see last year with the SB coaches both being black, it never entered my mind. Only after everyone made it a big story, did I even notice. What bothers me about that is that someone noticed and thought it was a story of any significance. Basically the color of someone's skin somehow means something. I'd rather hang with the folks who don't notice such things.

[Bliz]

Thats the problem though. A qb like Young can be a huge difference against a crap defense and will win some games. The problem is the run threat isn't going to win in the playoffs. It has never gotten a team to the Super Bowl. Young got to the Pro Bowl with almost the worst QB rating in the NFL because he ran for 500 yards and 7 TD's.

Campbell is probably already better. His rating will be better and I bet he doesn't average a fumble and an interception a game either.

Well, that's a different conversation than whether or not Young is a "marquee" qb.

Also not sure what you mean by a qb "like Young". You mean a run-first qb (and I'm not sure if he is one) or qb that is a serious threat to run? Because the Eagles did make it to the Super Bowl and a couple NFC championships with McNabb, who was an absolute killer in that respect. Not sure how many yards he ran for that season, but I bet it was a lot.

As for Young himself, yeah that's what got him to the pro bowl that time, but he's a young guy on an average team and he's getting better. I don't know if Campbell is better yet (VY does have a full year under his belt, and nearly led the team to a victory over the Colts) but he certainly has the potential to be just as good or better by the end of the eyar.

[redwoody86]

Well I'll have to look up your college numbers. Assuming they are accurate, how many should there be? 13 would make it proportional to the population. QUOTE]

His numbers are right, there are 4, and your number is a little low, it should be more like 15-16. That's quite a difference.

[Ryman of the North]

Like I said the only PASSING black QB who had any real succsess was Warren Moon and an argument could be made for williams even if he only had`maybe three season of actual succsess, Mcnair has only become a passer in the past few season when injuries forced him to stop trying to run.

This is interesting, I was reading a psychology article about characteristics of great pro QB's and the factors that go into the building of their personalities, funny thing is that the Black athletes that are succsessful usually have very distinct personalities in the way of extroversion and showmanship (the "look at me syndrome" )while white athletes are often more introverted and less motivated by externals, THIS IS NOT A SHOT IN ANY WAY and obviously there are going to be athletes of both colours who break that mold but this thread was dealing in generalisations and so does that observation. anyway about the guys who have been mentioned, Vince Young is still a Runner but has the tools to become a passer and ven better than Mcnair but Campbell has the tools to become another Moon if he keeps developing. I stand by my assertion that there are no Marquee Black QB's who are legit Marquee PASSING qb's right now, I hope that changes but Im not holding my breath, itll probably happen when there is a White RB or CB who legitimately plays at a probowl level. people are different, thats just the way it is.

[mojobo]

Why would you expect black coaches to have black quarterbacks? Do you expect white coaches to have white quarterbacks? Is Jack Del Rio doing something wrong because all of his quarterbacks in the past few years have been black?

I think what this shows us is that the reason there are still a relatively low number of black quarterbacks is not racism. Tony Dungy, Lovie Smith, Herm Edwards, Marvin Lewis, and Romeo Crennel are not keeping black QB's off their teams because they are racist; they are simply keeping the best QB's they have, whether they are black or white. Because of historical reasons, and possibly racism at lower levels, there are simply more qualified white QB's at this time. It's also important to note that black coaches also aren't signing black QB's to their roster just because they are black, so there's no affirmative action going on here.

The phenomenon of no black QB's on black coaches' teams (except Charlie Batch) is just another piece of evidence showing that there is very little explicit racism in the process of making an NFL roster. Now there may be implicit racial effects (and both past racism and racism at lower levels), but explicit racism among NFL coaches is not something we have to worry about anymore.

first of all thank you for being the only perosn so far to comment on the subject i brought up. And no its not that I expect because they are black they would for sure have a black qb its that out of all the black coaches rosters who have been their for more than one season i just thought that at least one black QB could crack the depth chart.

[pjfootballer]

Isn't it ironic that the one team that never wanted a black player on their team is the only one to have a black QB lead them to a championship.

[paloosa]

This is a very big thing to some people and effects others none the less. To me it is about comprehension of the offense and how you execute it. McNabb and other black QB's have done that. That is why they have been the QB's of their teams because of talent and comprehension of the offense of their teams. The reason the black QB hasn't won a Super Bowl, except for Doug Williams, is that they feel they have to do more and they don't trust their teammates to make a play. What I mean by that is that they are too often looking to run when the play and offensive line breaks down instead of moving a little to the left or right or stepping up in the pocket to find an open receiver. That is an ego thing also.

So far it has been proven throughout NFL history that running QB's have not won Super Bowls and that isn't a white or black thing that is a football thing. Look at Fran Tarkenton, Randall Cunningham, and Mike Vick. They were a run-first QB when the play broke down and never thought about looking up field to see if there was an open guy. They all thought that they were the better option at that time. Running to pick up 20 yards on 3rd down isn't going to pick up a first down every time. The percentages are against you. Some will say that Steve Young was a running QB but if you look at his Passer rating it will show he was a pure passer.

[riggins44]

The problem here is not that McNabb is black. Rather the problem is McNabb

plays in Philly! With the success he has brought the team, he deserves

a little better treatment from the fans. A white QB in Philly would be

going through same treatment.

[Dan T.]

So far it has been proven throughout NFL history that running QB's have not won Super Bowls and that isn't a white or black thing that is a football thing. Look at Fran Tarkenton, Randall Cunningham, and Mike Vick. They were a run-first QB when the play broke down and never thought about looking up field to see if there was an open guy. They all thought that they were the better option at that time. Running to pick up 20 yards on 3rd down isn't going to pick up a first down every time. The percentages are against you. Some will say that Steve Young was a running QB but if you look at his Passer rating it will show he was a pure passer.

Oh, so because Steve Young was a good passer, he's not considered a running quarterback? How about John Elway? He was able to scramble for first downs too. Oh wait, too good of a passer - can't be a running quarterback. How about Joe Theismann? He had the motor to run for a first down when needed.

I don't buy the notion that "a running quarterback can't win a Super Bowl."

[prophet]

Tim Tebow can scramble...

Tebow doesn't scramble he looks and they fall....

[tryfuhl]

question.. why does it matter?

[SkinsFanAnt]

The manner in which Donovan McNabb brought up the whole race issue was disappointing. Disappointing because it was overly critical and ignorant. I mean, Kordell Stewart wasn't replaced because the Steelers found a better quarterback, right? He was replaced because he was black. Yeah, that must be it!

The only thing disappointing about McNabbs statement was that he failed to remind himself that all QBs are under a lot of pressure and scrutiny, but Im sure that he wasn't talking about the NFL...he was talking about the media (such as Rush Limbaugh) and ignoramuses like yourself.

It is AMAZING that you can think that McNabb was simply playing the 'race card' becuase of his complaint. If you were in his situation, after having a pretty bad game you might take offense from being called a ****** or have the local media totally bash you because you aren't as sharp as a year ago because of an injury. Part of the problem is Philthy. Part of the problem is racism. Part of the problem is definitely NOT McNabb complaining that he was being scrutinized and criticized worse because he's not white. But guys like you keep trying to make that the case and keep failing badly because you apparently have absolutely no idea what its like to be discriminated against.

[SkinsFanAnt]

The problem here is not that McNabb is black. Rather the problem is McNabb

plays in Philly! With the success he has brought the team, he deserves

a little better treatment from the fans. A white QB in Philly would be

going through same treatment.

While that is partly true, if the QB was white the issue of race wouldn't come up from guys like Rush Limbaugh who apparently have to try to make the case that black QBs are overrated...especially when they have off games.

[Ryman of the North]

It wasnt popular but Rush was totally correct, there is a social concern involved when the media wants so badly to have a Black QB succeed, in the history of the NFL has a player who so totally did not deserve it ever been hyped as much as Mcnabb or Vick? you put those numbers on a white QB and you have a journeyman, now tell me that there is no racial bias entering into it. Personally I couldnt care less, I will cheer for Jason whatever colour he is because in the end he is burgundy, but I am hoping he is a warren moon and not a randall cuningham.

[[[ghost]]]

Byron Leftwich did all he could to end that :laugh:

Ain't that the truth.

[The Rook]

Isn't it ironic that the one team that never wanted a black player on their team is the only one to have a black QB lead them to a championship.

No, it isn't ironic (it is sad) and your statement is only half-factual. George Preston Marshall did not want to intergrate his team, so we were the last to do so. And when they did they got a HOF - Bobby Mitchell.

If we worry about race on our team, we become the Eagles' fans. :2cents:

:helmet: The Rook

[tenntitan81]

Maybe the reason black coaches don't have black QBs is because they want the best player at QB and not the blackest? I mean, why don't white coaches have white receivers?