Redskins.com: You first, coach.

[TheLongshot]

I knew that Herm Edwards blew a game in a similar manner once. I was too tired to find the game story last night.

I think this should be very high on every coach's list of daily reminders: "If you are ever doing something in a game that reminds people of a Herm Edwards' tactic...stop!"

Too bad that really isn't very analogous to what Gibbs did on Sunday. In this case, Edwards didn't have any options about moving the ball forward, since he was almost out of time. Certainly, with the questionable weather conditions, that would have been prudent if at all possible. I assume if we had similar conditions, Gibbs would have kept driving. But, it was a nice clear day.

The questionable part in that for Edwards was his no-confidence vote for his special teams. So, rather than just going up and getting the points, he fooled around by spiking the ball. Whether that really affected anything is somewhat questionable, since Brien still could have hooked the ball the same way.

Jason

[Goaldeje]

Nice read, Art. Well written.

Allow me to add my 2 cents, if I may.

I think what Art (and others) are upset about is they are concerned that the players will be concerned b/c the win was taken out of their hands.

I am a large man now, but once upon a time I was smaller and vaguely athletic (thank God my wife doesn't read this board), and played in a variety of sports. What we were always taught, true or not, was that we, the players, decided the game. The coach's job was to put us in a position to win, but the players were ultimately responsible for the win.

I am going to assume that though process carries through. If that is correct, our players were told, non-verbally (but definitively) that they were not going to win the game. Gibbs took the responsibility out of their hands, and put in in the hands (foot) of the kicker, the most ancillary position in football.

Those of us who are bothered by this coaching move don't give a damn about the yardage, or whether or not the kicker was reliable from that distance. What Gibbs told his team was that they weren't good enough to win it on their own.

We had momentum. We were driving. Their defense was sucking wind. We were back to smashmouth football!

So that's when we choose to kick?

Huh?

Why not establish an identity? When we went on the five game winning streak in '05, we did it because we established ourselves as a run-first team. Portis demanded the ball from Gibbs, and Gibbs gave it to him.

That's what we need, isn't it?

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Too bad that really isn't very analogous to what Gibbs did on Sunday. In this case, Edwards didn't have any options about moving the ball forward, since he was almost out of time. Certainly, with the questionable weather conditions, that would have been prudent if at all possible. I assume if we had similar conditions, Gibbs would have kept driving. But, it was a nice clear day.

The questionable part in that for Edwards was his no-confidence vote for his special teams. So, rather than just going up and getting the points, he fooled around by spiking the ball. Whether that really affected anything is somewhat questionable, since Brien still could have hooked the ball the same way.

Jason

It is exactly analogous. Herm had the ball 1st and 10 on the 25 with something like 1:30 left and three time outs. He made the decision to gain no more yards and kick the field goal. A 42 yarder. On the road. In the playoffs. In a stadium that is death for kickers.

Can you imagine how obnoxious I would be if Herm Edwards was our head coach? Great balls of fire!!!! I might become a Chiefs fan this year just so I can track the season in all its anti-glory.

Read the process in all its glory here:

2-7-PIT 34 (1:37) C.Pennington pass to C.Martin to PIT 25 for 9 yards (C.Hoke; J.Farrior).

1-10-PIT 25 (:56) C.Martin left guard to PIT 25 for no gain (K.Von Oelhoffen, J.Porter).

2-10-PIT 25 (:16) L.Jordan left guard to PIT 23 for 2 yards (J.Farrior; C.Hope).

Timeout #1 by NYJ at 00:06.

3-8-PIT 23 (:06) C.Pennington kneels to PIT 24 for -1 yards.

Timeout #2 by NYJ at 00:04.

Timeout #3 by PIT at 00:04.

4-9-PIT 24 (:04) D.Brien 43 yard field goal is No Good, Wide Left, Center-J.Dearth, Holder-T.Gowin.

[TheLongshot]

I am a large man now, but once upon a time I was smaller and vaguely athletic (thank God my wife doesn't read this board), and played in a variety of sports. What we were always taught, true or not, was that we, the players, decided the game. The coach's job was to put us in a position to win, but the players were ultimately responsible for the win.

I am going to assume that though process carries through. If that is correct, our players were told, non-verbally (but definitively) that they were not going to win the game. Gibbs took the responsibility out of their hands, and put in in the hands (foot) of the kicker, the most ancillary position in football.

Last I checked, the kicker and the people blocking for him are a member of the team. Everything was still the players' responsibility to execute.

Those of us who are bothered by this coaching move don't give a damn about the yardage, or whether or not the kicker was reliable from that distance. What Gibbs told his team was that they weren't good enough to win it on their own.

We had momentum. We were driving. Their defense was sucking wind. We were back to smashmouth football!

So that's when we choose to kick?

Huh?

Guess what: I bet you will find that most coaches, when they get into field goal range in OT, will choose to kick it. I've seen that more often than not.

Looking for examples from last year, so far I've come up with TDs, but they have come on big plays. (The Giants beat Philly in OT on a 31 yard pass to Burress. The Titans beat the Texans in OT on a 40 yard run by Vince Young.)

Ok, here's a good example: 49ers vs Denver, last game of the season. In overtime, after each team has had it twice, the 49ers drive to the 18 yard line and with 2 minutes left kick a field goal to win the game. That was a 3rd and short.

The only thing a bit unusual about Gibbs' decision was how far back he was, but it really wasn't way out there.

Jason

[TheLongshot]

It is exactly analogous. Herm had the ball 1st and 10 on the 25 with something like 1:30 left and three time outs. He made the decision to gain no more yards and kick the field goal. A 42 yarder. On the road. In the playoffs. In a stadium that is death for kickers.

Funny, but those last three sentences further confirm that this situation is not analogous, since Gibbs wasn't facing any of those conditions. Also, missing the kick doesn't lose us the game. All it does is gives the ball back to Miami at the 30. While far from ideal, it is hardly a dire situation.

Jason

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Funny, but those last three sentences further confirm that this situation is not analogous, since Gibbs wasn't facing any of those conditions. Also, missing the kick doesn't lose us the game. All it does is gives the ball back to Miami at the 30. While far from ideal, it is hardly a dire situation.

Jason

It was a tie game for Herm too. They lost in OT.

And for Suisham it was a pressure kick in OT...for a kicker with 15 career attempts entering the game.

I do like how Suisham is now Adam Vinatieri though.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Funny, but those last three sentences further confirm that this situation is not analogous, since Gibbs wasn't facing any of those conditions. Also, missing the kick doesn't lose us the game. All it does is gives the ball back to Miami at the 30. While far from ideal, it is hardly a dire situation.

Jason

You didn't watch that Jets' game, did you?

[Pedro]

I do like how Suisham is now Adam Vinatieri though.

Suisham made every kick in the game.

Heck he's made every kick this season.

He's proven clutch enough to win us every game we have played this season.

[gortiz]

I don't think we should be complaining about Gibb's decision. To make assumptions on how the psyche of the team was effected based on how we won just does not make sense and is really, really reaching.

Looking at past history and how the game had progressed up to that point, based on who we had on the field (i.e. rookie on the O-line), based on the penalties we racked up in the 2nd half - there was more chance of something bad happening in the form of losing yards or the ball then SS missing that FG.

[Redskinaholic]

Lots of good comments here. I understand how this could be viewed in 2 different ways. Im going to stay positive and gives Gibbs props on the call....well, because it worked!! WE WON!! Thats all that matters. We actually have a reliable kicker, which could be the difeerence in making or not making the playoffs. 1-0!!!! Go SKins!! Beat Philly!

[turbodiesel#44]

Bellichek was an Economics major at Wesleyan. The Patriots are known for their heavy reliance on statistical data in their decision making and game planning. They are also known for winning.

And now, cheating too. What contributes to wins more, playing the numbers or sidestepping them totally.

[Oldfan]

And now, cheating too. What contributes to wins more, playing the numbers or sidestepping them totally.

Cheating improves the likelihood of winning by 31.962 % overall according to the most reliable data.:cool:

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Cheating improves the likelihood of winning by 31.962 % overall according to the most reliable data.:cool:

Pro Football Reference lists the Patriots cheating index as a league leading 6.3. Indy is the mean of 0. Arizona is worst at -4.2.

Arizona does nothing well.

[Goaldeje]

Last I checked, the kicker and the people blocking for him are a member of the team. Everything was still the players' responsibility to execute.

Sure it was. But if you go ask our O-line of they would rather block for Portis, or block for Suisham, who do you think they will choose? We were on a roll, and Gibbs took the game away from the players, and gave it to the kicker.

Guess what: I bet you will find that most coaches, when they get into field goal range in OT, will choose to kick it. I've seen that more often than not.

Looking for examples from last year, so far I've come up with TDs, but they have come on big plays. (The Giants beat Philly in OT on a 31 yard pass to Burress. The Titans beat the Texans in OT on a 40 yard run by Vince Young.)

Ok, here's a good example: 49ers vs Denver, last game of the season. In overtime, after each team has had it twice, the 49ers drive to the 18 yard line and with 2 minutes left kick a field goal to win the game. That was a 3rd and short.

The only thing a bit unusual about Gibbs' decision was how far back he was, but it really wasn't way out there.

Jason

So in the 49ers game, the fact that they kicked it on third down, NOT 1st, doesn't tell you anything?

And what in God's name were the Giants doing passing, when they were close enough for a field goal (by your logic)?

Come on. Most teams will give it to the players until they can't deliver in that situation. If they couldn't pick up the first down, then you turn the game over to the kicker. But we were picking up the first downs.

Big difference.

[TheLongshot]

It was a tie game for Herm too. They lost in OT.

Sorry' date=' but the poorly worded article makes the impression that the miss lost them the game, when that happened later. Most of what I said still applies: The kick in question was at the end of regulation, on the road, with deteriorating conditions. Not at all what we had on Sunday.

And for Suisham it was a pressure kick in OT...for a kicker with 15 career attempts entering the game.

Well, you might as well start him out with a pressure situation in a friendly environment like home and with nice weather. He's going to need to make pressure kicks at some point.

I do like how Suisham is now Adam Vinatieri though.

Jason

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Sorry, but the poorly worded article makes the impression that the miss lost them the game, when that happened later. Most of what I said still applies: The kick in question was at the end of regulation, on the road, with deteriorating conditions. Not at all what we had on Sunday.

Do you really not remember that game? That's one of the more fascinating NFL games of the last decade.

[TheLongshot]

So in the 49ers game, the fact that they kicked it on third down, NOT 1st, doesn't tell you anything?

That they decided to kick it on 3rd down? :whoknows:

Point is, the ball was only about 3 yards closer in that game and they felt that they were close enough to make an attempt. Three yards doesn't make much of a difference when you are that close, particularly since Suisham had plenty of air.

And what in God's name were the Giants doing passing, when they were close enough for a field goal (by your logic)?

Apparently, you have no clue what my logic is. :doh: The 31 yard line is about a 50 yard field goal. I've already mentioned that trying an attempt from that distance when you don't have to is silly.

Come on. Most teams will give it to the players until they can't deliver in that situation. If they couldn't pick up the first down, then you turn the game over to the kicker. But we were picking up the first downs.

Big difference.

I've seen many teams make a big play down the field and immediately line up for the field goal. Many times.

I don't see a problem here. After a long, tough game, Gibbs decides to take the points. While it isn't sexy in some people's eyes, it was a good move and it got us the win.

Jason

[TheLongshot]

Do you really not remember that game? That's one of the more fascinating NFL games of the last decade.

I often miss the early rounds of the playoffs, since there are other activities that I'm usually involved with in January. So, it is very possible that I missed it, or don't remember too well because I was in the middle of something else at the time.

Jason

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I often miss the early rounds of the playoffs, since there are other activities that I'm usually involved with in January. So, it is very possible that I missed it, or don't remember too well because I was in the middle of something else at the time.

Jason

There are activities in January?

[wildbill1952]

Art's article is well thought out and well spoken as usual. But I feel that, in both the short and the long run, that the added confidence that Suisham has (by kicking ina game-winning situation) can do nothing but pay big dividends for the Skins. The real question to ask, is "Do the players feel the field goal on first down was a lack of confidence in the offense?" I heard no comments from the players that they felt it was. Of course, if there were such feelings, they should have been kept among themselves.

Having said that, there have been several instances where I thought the offensive play-calling was more "Don't lose it" than "Let's win it". Maybe it's the cautious approach instead of a lack of faith in the offense. I would also like to see the offense open up a little. BUt I'll give the nod to Gibbs on this one. We won.

If nothing else, I won't hear the reporters dis Suisham about "He's never kicked in a pressure packed situation." He has now.

[TheLongshot]

There are activities in January?

In my household there are. My wife has a business meeting someplace warm (either Arizona or Florida) and I often tag along (2nd week in January), and there is the CWRU Movie Marathon (3rd week in January).

Jason

[The Full Monty]

Great read. You're best in a while!

[RFK Lives]

He has seen a change in NFL officials of the day different than his previous coaching experience where they involve themselves in the outcome of the game with mysterious calls they've no business making. You can almost empathize with the once-bitten-twice-shy coaching method at play.

Amen brother. I was struck by this again in the Bengals/Ravens game. Why referees feel this sudden need, I will never know but I only hope Goodell sees the same thing we are seeing.

[NomadicSkinFan]

While I'm happy with the result, I have to admit, I'd like to see this team get some offensive swagger. It looked like we were building toward that at the end. Our guys were mashing the Miami defenders, and you could tell they were liking that identity. Deciding to kick it on first down to me did show a lack of trust in our offense. Running it two more times could have resulted in a turnoever, but it far more likely (statistically speaking of course) that the kick would have been missed. Bringing hindsight into this equation is not fair and does not fully explore the situation.

By running the football, Gibbs would not have shown a lack of faith in our kicker. Running twice, not getting the first down, and then trying to pass the ball would have. It shows just as much confidence in the kicker to run the ball up the middle of the field two times and telling him "Now go win us this ball game".

By kicking, he basically told the offense that he was happy they got this far, but didn't want to risk them screwing it up. His feelings were not baseless. Personally, I'm still having trouble fully trusting this offense.

Hopefully, as the season goes on, we'll all find reasons to trust this offense more, and the decision making will reflect that confidence.

[Roblowsta]

I kinda felt the same way but i wasn't going to say anything about it because I love and respect our coach. It's ironic Art wrote this though. I'm excited about the win and not as concerned about the actual field goal on 1st decision (although it did raise an eyebrow) but what I took notice to was Coach. Although I'm a very religious person, I wasn't too keen on seeing our coach, our leader, kneeling to the ground, holding hands with a player while praying his team doesn't screw up in the first game of the season. That made me feel a little uncomfortable. Maybe after winning some games the confidence will re-emerge.

I don't think I've ever seen a coach in any sport act like that before. I was pretty confident that the 40 yarder was gonna be good but when I saw coach on his knees I started to worry. Is Suisham not as good as I thought? Don't get me wrong, I know Gibbs is religious and I'm all for having the Lord support out team. What I'm saying is....It's OK to pray but there's something else I'd like to see Joe practice and thats FAITH. Faith in the players they've assembled, faith in the decisions made on and off the field, and faith in the team overall. Pray on it before kickoff like most teams do and let it do what it do.

REDSKINS FOREVER!!!:helmet: