To be inducted into the hall of fame, one's character should matter

[redskins59]

Irvin snorted cocaine, which should be enough to ensure that he never gets into the hall of fame, period. A hall of famer should be a role model--someone kids can look up to. Michael Irvin is none of that. Are we going to allow Michael Vick to be inducted into the hall of fame, if for some reason, he was allowed to play in the NFL again, and he becomes a top tier quarterback? The reason Irvin got selected in the hall of fame, in my opinion, is because 1)he plays for the Dallas Cowboys( Cowboys must be the most hated football team in the NFL, not just hated by Redskins, but by fans from all over. The media folks seem to really love Cowboys, don't know why) and 2) Irvin is media savvy, and I guess he has lots of media buddies. He may have won 3 superbowls, but the hall of fame shouldn't be about your records only. One's character should matter too, in my humble opinion.

I was watching Michael Irvin's hall of fame speech yesterday, and I realized something: this man blows. He is obnoxious as hell. He rambled on and on and on for 30 minutes, about how great he is, and how hard he works, and what have you. It was embarrassing to watch him. So I switched to Fox News for 15 minutes, and switched back to NFL network, and Irvin was still talking. What a retard.

[DWinzit]

A hall of famer should be a role model--someone kids can look up to.

[THEHEREAFTER]

Irvin snorted cocaine, which should be enough to ensure that he never gets into the hall of fame, period. A hall of famer should be a role model--someone kids can look up to. Michael Irvin is none of that. Are we going to allow Michael Vick to be inducted into the hall of fame, if for some reason, he was allowed to play in the NFL again, and he becomes a top tier quarterback? The reason Irvin got selected in the hall of fame, in my opinion, is because 1)he plays for the Dallas Cowboys( Cowboys must be the most hated football team in the NFL, not just hated by Redskins, but by fans from all over. The media folks seem to really love Cowboys, don't know why) and 2) Irvin is media savvy, and I guess he has lots of media buddies. He may have won 3 superbowls, but the hall of fame shouldn't be about your records only. One's character should matter too, in my humble opinion.

This type of rant, which currently permeates this entire message board, is what epitomizes THE AVERAGE redskin fan to me. Always looking up at us complaining. Very little class or maturity. Lack of knowledge or understanding of football. The inability to think rationally about anything silver and blue. How do you define a role model? I'm sure plenty of people identify with someone who has made mistakes, faced adversity and challenges, and strives to become a better person.

I was watching Michael Irvin's hall of fame speech yesterday, and I realized something: this man blows. He is obnoxious as hell. He rambled on and on and on for 30 minutes, about how great he is, and how hard he works, and what have you. It was embarrassing to watch him. So I switched to Fox News for 15 minutes, and switched back to NFL network, and Irvin was still talking. What a retard

If you had watched the entire speech objectively and looked at a human being as opposed to a Cowboy, you may have come away with a bit more to say than "he blows" and is "obnoxious." The man poured his heart out and is anything but selfish. You have a lot of growing up to do man. Good luck.

[Fred Jones]

If you had watched the entire speech objectively and looked at a human being as opposed to a Cowboy, you may have come away with a bit more to say than "he blows" and is "obnoxious." The man poured his heart out and is anything but selfish. You have a lot of growing up to do man. Good luck.

No, I didn't watch the speech, but bringing character into the equation is interesting. Character involves being a good human being and setting an example. I doubt the HOF voters considered Irvin's character when electing him.

Additionally, that the man pored his heart out has nothing to do with what he has done in life. If I kill you and poor my heart out at the trial should I then get off because I demonstrated that I was not selfish. (A side note, no Irvin didn't kill anybody, I was just using an example). Drug use, however, is bad and Irvin was a drug user.

What skins fans point out is simple:

1. Monk was a better player - IMHO

2. Monk had character and set an example in life.

[Mooka]

How do you define a role model? I'm sure plenty of people identify with someone who has made mistakes, faced adversity and challenges, and strives to become a better person.

So are you saying that Irvin is a good role model?

[drowland]

For me it was the first time I've listened to him and not been annoyed. Irvin was contrite, respectful and remorseful for the stuff he did to his wife, family and fans off the field and he was very respectful for the 2006 class and how he could not live up to their standard. The prayer he sent out to Gene Hickerson and his family was pure class. I thought it was a damn good speech.

Now Jerry Jones is a different story. That guy just can't pat himself on the back enough.

[jbooma]

For me it was the first time I've listened to him and not been annoyed. Irvin was contrite, respectful and remorseful for the stuff he did to his wife, family and fans off the field and he was very respectful for the 2006 class and how he could not live up to their standard. The prayer he sent out to Gene Hickerson and his family was pure class. I thought it was a damn good speech.

Now Jerry Jones is a different story. That guy just can't pat himself on the back enough.

Exactly and Irvin thought his character would keep him out of the HOF so is very blessed he is a member now. This speach was one of the most emotional speaches I have heard at the HOF.

[BUCS_FAN6263]

I think you're just angry about how he smoked you guys all those years and how he beat Art Monk out in the voting(although personally I think Monk deserved it more) but I just see this as a shot at the playmaker.

[InTikiITrust]

Athletes should be role models for what they do off the field - community work, charity work, making a difference for others - and not what they do on the field.

A role model should be someone who takes time to make trips to food kitchens or has fund raisers for charities, not a guy who simple catches 80 balls or a year or racks up 100 tackles a season.

[Angus]

It might depend on the circumstances. If someone is down and out, having made terrible mistakes, someone who has also been in that circumstance but pulled themselves out of it might very well be a good role model for that person.

I agree that Irvin's early behavior would not be a good role model for children, but sometimes adults need role models, too.

[CM916]

Well, I'll be fair and say that Riggo's drinking, admitedly even during games after he was done carrying the load, probably isn't a great example for the world. However, there is a massive difference between drinking beer before a game and snorting coke. I have never and will never support an admited coke addict. There is a good reason the drug is illegal for all ages.

[Ken]

No, I didn't watch the speech, but bringing character into the equation is interesting. Character involves being a good human being and setting an example. I doubt the HOF voters considered Irvin's character when electing him.

Additionally, that the man pored his heart out has nothing to do with what he has done in life. If I kill you and poor my heart out at the trial should I then get off because I demonstrated that I was not selfish. (A side note, no Irvin didn't kill anybody, I was just using an example). Drug use, however, is bad and Irvin was a drug user.

What skins fans point out is simple:

1. Monk was a better player - IMHO

2. Monk had character and set an example in life.

Monk was not better than Irvin. Period. The Cowboys wouldn't have done what they did if you swap Monk in there for Irvin.

Irvin was dominant. Monk was very good. There is a difference.

[Ken]

So are you saying that Irvin is a good role model?

So because he is not a role model, we should hold it against him for the FOOTBALL Hall of Fame?

That is rediculous.

LT is in the Hall, in case you forgot. Should we strip him of his honor too?

[Mooka]

So because he is not a role model, we should hold it against him for the FOOTBALL Hall of Fame?

That is rediculous.

LT is in the Hall, in case you forgot. Should we strip him of his honor too?

That is the OP's opinion not mine.

I just asked a question.

[PC84]

It is not Michael Irvin's job to be a role model to anyone but his kids, if kids want a role model, look to their parents.And if only role models should get into the Hall, then should John Riggins? I mean being drunk at a Washington Press Club dinner and hitting on Sandra Day O'Connor before passing out sets such a good example right?

[ImRickJamesB]

It is not Michael Irvin's job to be a role model to anyone but his kids, if kids want a role model, look to their parents.And if only role models should get into the Hall, then should John Riggins? I mean being drunk at a Washington Press Club dinner and hitting on Sandra Day O'Connor before passing out sets such a good example right?

Good point.:notworthy

I'm astonished at how so many of y'all dont have any empathy for Irvin.

He had a drug problem.

Yeah, anybody who has ever had a problem with drugs or alcohol is scum!

How does that make him a bad person?

He was making bad decisions for awhile, first by doing drugs, then because he was addicted to drugs.

He's always supported and/or employed ALL of his 17 brothers and sisiters. 17! He was a tremendously unselfish player! He was the heart of the Cowboys dynasty! He's all heart, and that's a great character trait!

Alot of really great people fall victim to the lures of drugs and/or alcohol! These are not bad people!

Should we keep Brett Favre out of the HOF, because he had a problem with pain killers?

Some of y'all shouldn't be so quick to judge!

[illone]

It's crazy that Irvin made it in before Monk.

[DallasCowboyFan156]

The whole Irvin is not a good role model thing is pretty ridiculous to me. In my opinion there are two types of role models. The first is the type of guy who never has problems off the field or with law enforcement and is always giving off a good image. The second is the guy that has struggled with something in the past and hasn't always had the best image but has seen the error of his ways and his man enough to stand up and say "I was wrong." This is the guy that knows what he did was wrong, regrets it and is outspoken to others in trying to help those that have the same problem that he used to have. I see Michael Irvin as that second guy. His image has suffered in the past but in his own way he is still a role model.

[SkinsFTW]

Lack of knowledge or understanding of football. The inability to think rationally about anything silver and blue.

Monk 940 12721 13.5 68

Irvin 750 11904 15.9 65

What else is there to know?

For now, Monk is the answer to the trivia question: "Who is the ONLY NFL all time receptions leader to not get into the HOF once he was eligible?"

He also held the most games consecutive with a reception, and the Most receptions in a season for about a decade.

What record did Irvin hold again?

Most lines snorted in a locker room before the game consecutively?

I don't know much, so enlighten me with the superior knowledge of a Dallas Cowboy fan.

[SkinsFTW]

The whole Irvin is not a good role model thing is pretty ridiculous to me. In my opinion there are two types of role models. The first is the type of guy who never has problems off the field or with law enforcement and is always giving off a good image. The second is the guy that has struggled with something in the past and hasn't always had the best image but has seen the error of his ways and his man enough to stand up and say "I was wrong." This is the guy that knows what he did was wrong, regrets it and is outspoken to others in trying to help those that have the same problem that he used to have. I see Michael Irvin as that second guy. His image has suffered in the past but in his own way he is still a role model.

Nice try but the dude was just busted again last freaking year.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/1128052irvin1.html

"Michael Irvin Pipes A Quote

Cowboys great ratted out brother in drug paraphernalia bust

NOVEMBER 28--Michael Irvin fingered his brother when Texas cops discovered a drug pipe during a traffic stop Friday afternoon in Plano. According to a Municipal Court citation obtained by TSG, cops found the "multi-colored pipe w/ marijuana residue" inside a Versace sunglass case that was tucked under the driver's seat of a 2005 Mercedes Benz coupe driven by the former Dallas Cowboys star. Cops noted that the sunglass case also contained a silver lighter and "plastic baggies w/ marijuana residue" and quoted Irvin, who was charged with misdemeanor possession of drug paraphernalia, as saying, "It's my brother's. He left it in there." Irvin, who now works as an ESPN analyst, yesterday told the Associated Press that the pipe belonged to a friend of 17 years who had just left a Texas drug rehab facility. Irvin, who would not identify this supposed friend, said that he had confiscated the pipe from the crony, with whom he was celebrating Thanksgiving. Irvin, a semifinalist this year for the NFL Hall of Fame, claimed that he simply forgot to discard the pipe. Irvin, pictured below in a Plano Police Department mug shot, was traveling with his wife Sandy when pulled over for speeding. Since the court citation, a copy of which you'll find on succeeding pages, had not yet surfaced, Irvin was not called on by the AP to explain why the pipe was hidden inside the Versace stash case (along with the lighter and those pot-infused baggies) and safely tucked under his seat. Irvin's rap sheet includes a 1996 no contest plea to felony cocaine possession and an August 2000 marijuana bust, though that pot charge was later dropped. We tried to reach Irvin via his cell phone (sorry, we had to redact the number from the citation), but all we got was a recording announcing that his mailbox was full and was not accepting new messages."

[SkinsFTW]

Monk was not better than Irvin. Period. The Cowboys wouldn't have done what they did if you swap Monk in there for Irvin.

Irvin was dominant. Monk was very good. There is a difference.

Irvin was dominant? He NEVER LED THE LEAGUE IN ANYTHING! He had Aikman and Smith and a great OL in a weak division. Monk had a few random QB's, decent RB's for some of his career and also a dominant OL in a tough division the entire time. Irvin played during the years when 5-10 receivers were regularly catching 100-125 balls. The NFC was pretty much garbage by the time Dallas had a monopoly on the talent because they got good players before free agency started. In any other era they would have won 1 of those SB's.

[PC84]

Nice try but the dude was just busted again last freaking year.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/1128052irvin1.html

"Michael Irvin Pipes A Quote

Cowboys great ratted out brother in drug paraphernalia bust

NOVEMBER 28--Michael Irvin fingered his brother when Texas cops discovered a drug pipe during a traffic stop Friday afternoon in Plano. According to a Municipal Court citation obtained by TSG, cops found the "multi-colored pipe w/ marijuana residue" inside a Versace sunglass case that was tucked under the driver's seat of a 2005 Mercedes Benz coupe driven by the former Dallas Cowboys star. Cops noted that the sunglass case also contained a silver lighter and "plastic baggies w/ marijuana residue" and quoted Irvin, who was charged with misdemeanor possession of drug paraphernalia, as saying, "It's my brother's. He left it in there." Irvin, who now works as an ESPN analyst, yesterday told the Associated Press that the pipe belonged to a friend of 17 years who had just left a Texas drug rehab facility. Irvin, who would not identify this supposed friend, said that he had confiscated the pipe from the crony, with whom he was celebrating Thanksgiving. Irvin, a semifinalist this year for the NFL Hall of Fame, claimed that he simply forgot to discard the pipe. Irvin, pictured below in a Plano Police Department mug shot, was traveling with his wife Sandy when pulled over for speeding. Since the court citation, a copy of which you'll find on succeeding pages, had not yet surfaced, Irvin was not called on by the AP to explain why the pipe was hidden inside the Versace stash case (along with the lighter and those pot-infused baggies) and safely tucked under his seat. Irvin's rap sheet includes a 1996 no contest plea to felony cocaine possession and an August 2000 marijuana bust, though that pot charge was later dropped. We tried to reach Irvin via his cell phone (sorry, we had to redact the number from the citation), but all we got was a recording announcing that his mailbox was full and was not accepting new messages."

That is why we live in a country where you are innocent until proven guilty.

[SkinsFTW]

That is why we live in a country where you are innocent until proven guilty.

He was guilty. He had a pipe with weed in it in his car. Doesn't matter that pro athletes get away with it, he still had a pipe in his car with weed in it. Thats not debatable.

[scyber]

Well, at least the new commissioner's policy of suspending players for their off the field activities should address at least some of the concerns here. Players that are suspended aren't likely to have a HOF season.

[KevinthePRF]

Monk was not better than Irvin. Period. The Cowboys wouldn't have done what they did if you swap Monk in there for Irvin.

Irvin was dominant. Monk was very good. There is a difference.

I think Irvin deserves to be in the HOF, but this is absolutely ridiculous. Both were on the same tier. One is not far and above better than the other.