Frameshop: A Picture of the GOP on Civil Rights

[Mooney]

Name one of the members of my church. Just one, BTW first and last name is a must.

Joe Smith.

So you keep on demanding one actual example, and we'll keep pointing you to the studies that log many many examples.

Yet none of your "studies" can give one, current example?

So, it is on you to disprove the standards that are not questioned by anyone.

Keep running.

Here are some where the pay inequity was later rectified....

None within the last decade. Even the Cowboys have won a playoff game since.

These are for gender, but race applies as well in other instances.

All at least a decade old. Your Google must be working though.

[Teller]

Don't you also understand the arrogance that continues to question study after study that consistenty shows pay inequity between races and gender? At what point do you finally have to say, ok maybe there is a problem, so lets do something about it?

There IS a problem, and I speak out against affirmative action at every opportunity. That's what I choose to do about it. Now, if you want to compare what an African American teacher in Alabama is making vs. a white teacher in NYC, that's fine. But Mooney asked for something VERY simple. The exact same job, the exact same place, different wages attributable to nothing but race. I've seen nothing to prove it exists. And in the main places I've worked in my life, the military, a police department and a newspaper, the pay scales were identical.

[twa]

Name one of the members of my church.

Just one, BTW first and last name is a must.

Jesus Christ....You ain't kicked him out have ya?

I couldn't resist...sorry.

[PeterMP]

And here we have 100% agreement. The laws are already in place to prevent discrimination where it can be proven.

When is the last time you heard of the Justice Dept. taking somebody to court for discrimination? When is the last time you heard of the Justice Dept. proactively doing an investigation to root out discrimination (e.g. running any kind of sting operation)? Yet study after study shows that discrimination exsist. A law that is not enforced is even MORE useless than no law because people can claim 'well it is illegeal'. Currently, the law is not enforced (or enforced in woefully inadequate manner). Blacks would be better off if there was absolutely no law because then they might foment for a law that might actually help fix the problem instead of the current sitution.

[Teller]

When is the last time you heard of the Justice Dept. taking somebody to court for discrimination? When is the last time you heard of the Justice Dept. proactively doing an investigation to root out discrimination (e.g. running any kind of sting operation)? Yet study after study shows that discrimination exsist. A law that is not enforced is even MORE useless than no law because people can claim 'well it is illegeal'. Currently, the law is not enforced (or enforced in woefully inadequate manner). Blacks would be better off if there was absolutely no law because then they might foment for a law that might actually help fix the problem instead of the current sitution.

http://cms.firehouse.com/web/online/News/DOJ-Sues-FDNY-for-Hiring-Discrimination/46$54808

WELL DAMN! THAT was EASY!!!!!! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Got yer one example yet, Cletus?????

***edit: Oh yeah, dated June 24, 2007 too. Not a decade and a half ago.***

[Mooney]

Joseph Smith?

Joe Smith.

Great minds.

[PeterMP]

http://cms.firehouse.com/web/online/News/DOJ-Sues-FDNY-for-Hiring-Discrimination/46$54808

WELL DAMN! THAT was EASY!!!!!! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Got yer one example yet, Cletus?????

http://cms.firehouse.com/web/online/News/DOJ-Sues-FDNY-for-Hiring-Discrimination/46$54808

That wasn't proactive. That was the result of a complaint filed by an African American organization.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Jesus Christ....You ain't kicked him out have ya?.

Not yet, but he's been getting on my nerves as of late.

BTW, his last name isn't Christ, its "of Nazareth".:laugh:

[AsburySkinsFan]

There IS a problem, and I speak out against affirmative action at every opportunity. That's what I choose to do about it. Now, if you want to compare what an African American teacher in Alabama is making vs. a white teacher in NYC, that's fine. But Mooney asked for something VERY simple. The exact same job, the exact same place, different wages attributable to nothing but race. I've seen nothing to prove it exists. And in the main places I've worked in my life, the military, a police department and a newspaper, the pay scales were identical.

Did you not see my post of four different universities that acknowledged the pay inequity and issued back pay to those who earned less for the same job? Ya'll asked for 1, and I gave 4. Do I get extra credit?

[chomerics]

I've seen nothing to prove it exists. And in the main places I've worked in my life, the military, a police department and a newspaper, the pay scales were identical.

The reason you see nothing that proves it exists is because you fail to read anything contrary to your opinion. DO you not see this as a problem???

There was a study posted which listed EXACTLY what you asked for, you ignored the study and then stated what you just did. THat is not a debate, that is ignorance.

READ THE FRICKIN STUDY!!!! Pick it apart, tell why you think their methodology was flawed, do SOMETHING to show you have ANY credibility hog. All you have done is state you have seen nothing which disagrees with you. . .well, yes, you are correct. If you fail to read something someone posts, and you fail to listen to what people say, you can state "I've seen nothing that contradicts my position". . .but for everyone here who has looked at the study, and have seen the numerous and countless studies and or evidence of workplace inequality, you sound like a lemming who refuses to hear a diverging viewpoint.

There is nothing wrong with ignorance if that is what you intend to do with your life, just save us the time and say there is nothing that will change your mind because you refuse to look at anything with an opposing point of view. That is what you are doing in this thread, and it is what Republicans do all the time. Ignorance is bliss. . .yes, it is, but it is also ignorant. . .

[AsburySkinsFan]

None within the last decade. Even the Cowboys have won a playoff game since.

All at least a decade old. Your Google must be working though.

Ok, first. You didn't say current, you said any, you can't go qualifying your demands after they have been met, that's simply dishonest.

Second, do you really think that this has all gone away in the last 10 years?

Third, yes google does work and if these were that easy to find for me just imagine how many more are out there.

[Teller]

When is the last time you heard of the Justice Dept. taking somebody to court for discrimination? When is the last time you heard of the Justice Dept. proactively doing an investigation to root out discrimination (e.g. running any kind of sting operation)? Yet study after study shows that discrimination exsist. A law that is not enforced is even MORE useless than no law because people can claim 'well it is illegeal'. Currently, the law is not enforced (or enforced in woefully inadequate manner). Blacks would be better off if there was absolutely no law because then they might foment for a law that might actually help fix the problem instead of the current sitution.

My link directly and completely answers the question in red.

[Teller]

"The conclusion of this paper is clear-cut. I find evidence that African American employees receive lower performance ratings than white men within a given occupation and establishment. I also find evidence that women’s performance ratings are higher than men’s (consistent with

Lewis 1997). This finding is also consistent with the evidence to date, which indicates that the formalization of employment systems tends to have a positive effect on women’s earnings (Anderson and Tomaskovic-Devey 1995; Bridges and Nelson 1989; Huffman and Velasco 1997; and Reskin 2000)."

If African Americans are receiving lower performance ratings, THEY DESERVE LESS PAY. The assumption that because there is a trend in this one company for African Americans to receive lower ratings, doesn't necessarily indicate bias. It may well indicate that those individuals are not performing as well. Therefore, this IS NOT the apples to apples comparison we've been begging for. (Notice, I posted what PeterMP requested IMMEDIATELY.)

I answered his first question, and I can answer the second with a link if I dig a little bit. So far, it's your side of the argument that can't provide the data to support your claim.

But hey, I'm just an ignorant hick, so WTF do I know, right?

[Larry]

I DO NOT LISTEN TO RUSH LIMBAUGH. FABRICATE A NEW ARGUMENT.

HOW ABOUT JUST REPEATING THE OLD ONE?

You've claimed that every single (Democratic) Presidential candidate is morally unfit to serve because they chose not to appear on Fox News.

Does your reasoning that any candidate who choses not to appear in a venue where he knows in advance he's going to be attacked is unfit to be President also apply to every one of the Republican candidates who chose not to appear here?

Or is picking and choosing your audience only allowed for GOP candidates?

[Teller]

HOW ABOUT JUST REPEATING THE OLD ONE?

You've claimed that every single (Democratic) Presidential candidate is morally unfit to serve because they chose not to appear on Fox News.

Does your reasoning that any candidate who choses not to appear in a venue where he knows in advance he's going to be attacked is unfit to be President also apply to every one of the Republican candidates who chose not to appear here?

Or is picking and choosing your audience only allowed for GOP candidates?

What do you want me to say, Larry? That I'm a homer too? Fine. I'm a homer too.

I do believe there's a big difference between the objectivity of FOX News Channel and ohhhh the NAACP. Tell me. Which has the clearer agenda? Which is more narrowly focused on pushing that agenda? OK. Now tell me which one covers the broader range of topics a presidential candidate has to deal with? Do you see the difference?

I do think the intellectually honest equivalent of the dems appearing on FOX would be the repubs appearing on MSNBC or CNN; both of which have already happened.

I don't claim to be completely objective. I try, but I'm human.

[Larry]

Show me one actual, current example, where a black person is making 75% of a white counterpart, in the same, exact job.

Just one.

Tell you what, I'll make you a deal.

I'll show you two people, one white, one black, who are identical in every way except that the black is making 75% of the pay.

One day after you show me two people, one white, one black, who are identical in every way.

However, until you are able to comply with the demand I've given you (a demand which we both know is impossible to achieve in the first place), I see no reason why anybody else is in any way obligated to comply with your impossible demand, either.

You see, we both know that there are no identical people.

Which does not mean that comparing, say, the salary of the average black male aged 30-35 with a four-year college degree in engineering, against the average white with the same parameters, is meaningless.

[Mooney]

Ok, first. You didn't say current, you said any, you can't go qualifying your demands after they have been met, that's simply dishonest.

Second, do you really think that this has all gone away in the last 10 years?

Third, yes google does work and if these were that easy to find for me just imagine how many more are out there.

First, I've been saying current all along. Read again. Though you get points for the Clinton-esque attempt.

Second. I've only asked for one example of a black person currently making 75% of his/her white counterpart in the same, exact job.

In the last 20 years, I've worked in the financial services industry for some of the largest corporations in the world. I've worked in sales, management and at the executive level.

Performance and results are all that matter. Just like professional sports.

Please point me to the industry where all this discrimination is going on. Or better yet, call CNN. They could use the story. Or stfu with your misleading studies.

Third, damn your persistant. I'll type slow. You can't find any because....they don't exist.

[Mooney]

Tell you what, I'll make you a deal.

I'll show you two people, one white, one black, who are identical in every way except that the black is making 75% of the pay.

One day after you show me two people, one white, one black, who are identical in every way.

However, until you are able to comply with the demand I've given you (a demand which we both know is impossible to achieve in the first place), I see no reason why anybody else is in any way obligated to comply with your impossible demand, either.

You see, we both know that there are no identical people.

Which does not mean that comparing, say, the salary of the average black male aged 30-35 with a four-year college degree in engineering, against the average white with the same parameters, is meaningless.

Another runner.

This is about 75% compensation for the exact, same job. Not person. Nice try though.

This is like fishing with dynamite.

[cjcdaman]

When is the last time you heard of the Justice Dept. taking somebody to court for discrimination? When is the last time you heard of the Justice Dept. proactively doing an investigation to root out discrimination (e.g. running any kind of sting operation)? Yet study after study shows that discrimination exsist. A law that is not enforced is even MORE useless than no law because people can claim 'well it is illegeal'. Currently, the law is not enforced (or enforced in woefully inadequate manner). Blacks would be better off if there was absolutely no law because then they might foment for a law that might actually help fix the problem instead of the current sitution.

4 minutes later . . .

http://cms.firehouse.com/web/online/News/DOJ-Sues-FDNY-for-Hiring-Discrimination/46$54808

WELL DAMN! THAT was EASY!!!!!! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Got yer one example yet, Cletus?????

***edit: Oh yeah, dated June 24, 2007 too. Not a decade and a half ago.***

PeterMP:owned:

EDIT: And as for "Cletus", that was just ****ing hilarious!

[AsburySkinsFan]

You can't find any because....they don't exist.

You must be absolutely brilliant to be able to say this yourself, as if you somehow have divine knowledge that somehow escapes all these studies and census reports that consistently show that blacks and women make less then white males for the same jobs and education levels.

But, what am I thinking? You want to believe that discrimination in the work place doesn't exist therefore it doesn't exist, contrary to what the majority knows to be true.

Oh, and the CNN bit, that's just dumb, because CNN wouldn't be interested because they know that most Americans are tired of hearing about racism in the workplace.

But, by your responses you have answered one question of mine, and that is that you do indeed dispute the findings in the studies and in the census reports, yet you yourself have no evidence to disprove what they say, so I'll say it again. The studies are out there, and if you disagree with them, then prove how they are wrong, until then. Hush.

[Mooney]

You must be absolutely brilliant to be able to say this yourself, as if you somehow have divine knowledge that somehow escapes all these studies and census reports that consistently show that blacks and women make less then white males for the same jobs and education levels.

But, what am I thinking? You want to believe that discrimination in the work place doesn't exist therefore it doesn't exist, contrary to what the majority knows to be true.

Oh, and the CNN bit, that's just dumb, because CNN wouldn't be interested because they know that most Americans are tired of hearing about racism in the workplace.

But, by your responses you have answered one question of mine, and that is that you do indeed dispute the findings in the studies and in the census reports, yet you yourself have no evidence to disprove what they say, so I'll say it again. The studies are out there, and if you disagree with them, then prove how they are wrong, until then. Hush.

Blah, blah, blah. Now you're just embarrassing yourself.

I never said discrimination doesn't happen. I've just asked for one example where this exists at 75%. Any job. I even made it easy by just asking for an industry.

Someone mentioned engineering. My cousin was an engineer at BGE, and I think he might have made an issue over a 25% wage disparity. He's pretty good with numbers.

Studies are more believable if they at least use some current examples.

[Mass_SkinsFan]

Interesting. Eight of the Nine Republican candidates just moved up a very small amount in my estimation. It doesn't take a military genius to spot an ambush as obvious as this sort of "debate" would have been a mile away, and a smart warrior avoids this sort of situation at all costs.

There is absolutely nothing positive that any of these Republican candidates could have gotten out of attending a debate sponsored by a group of people (Liberal Black Socialists) who are never going to agree with or like anything you say. That would be like the Democrats attending a debate sponsored by clones of ME. There is nothing helpful for them that can come out of it.

So why the hell did any of them have agree to attend in the first place is what I would like to know?

[AsburySkinsFan]

I never said discrimination doesn't happen. I've just asked for one example where this exists at 75%. Any job. I even made it easy by just asking for an industry.

And I've simply asked for a name of any one member of my church, first and last. Heck, I'll even allow you to name any past member or deceased member of the church where I pastor.

This is the same thing that you are asking, and because you do not know any of my member's names does that mean that they don't exist? Hardly.

Trust me, your childish temper tantrum that we produce a name is far more embarassing to everyone here than telling you to put up or hush up. So either challenge the studies or be quiet about them.

[Mooney]

So either challenge the studies or be quiet about them.

I'm challenging the study.

I've Googled. Can't find one example of a black person currently making 75% of a white counterpart in the same, exact job.

Locally, is it the Federal Gov't? FedEx? Pepco? McDonalds? Household Finance? Nationwide? The Caps?

Please, demonstrate just one example. Anywhere in the country. Out of the thousands of different jobs and industries.

[SkinsHokieFan]

Interesting. Eight of the Nine Republican candidates just moved up a very small amount in my estimation. It doesn't take a military genius to spot an ambush as obvious as this sort of "debate" would have been a mile away, and a smart warrior avoids this sort of situation at all costs.

There is absolutely nothing positive that any of these Republican candidates could have gotten out of attending a debate sponsored by a group of people (Liberal Black Socialists) who are never going to agree with or like anything you say. That would be like the Democrats attending a debate sponsored by clones of ME. There is nothing helpful for them that can come out of it.

So why the hell did any of them have agree to attend in the first place is what I would like to know?

Bingo. Absolutely no reason to go into THAT environment

Talk to the Urban League. No reason to talk to the NACCP