Teller Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Now I realize that's only one study. However, I'd be glad to find more if and when either of you coughs up legitimate research that says otherwise. Sorry Yusuf, I can usually have a rousing but friendly debate with you, but I've gotten fed up with the fabrications of my position before you even got here this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sisko Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 How many generations does that last? Apparently at least up until January, 2007. But hey, it's nice to know that "equality" means some folks can get a call back with a criminal record but as for me and my squeaky clean record, we can go fly a kite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sisko Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Sorry Yusuf, I can usually have a rousing but friendly debate with you, but I've gotten fed up with the fabrications of my position before you even got here this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted July 15, 2007 Author Share Posted July 15, 2007 Thanks to good ole' Time Warner, my cable and internet were off last night due to storms so I was unable to log on to see the responses. I had a few in me so if I offended anyone, I'm sorry. Basically what I was getting at is . . . there is a HUGE difference between white POWER and white PRIDE. ASF is like a damn apologist. No worries. BTW, I understand what you're saying about being proud of one's heritage, I too am proud of my heritage as a European American, but I must also be well aware of the baggage and benefits that come with my race, and work earnestly to do justice and to attempt to rectify the failings of my forefathers. BTW, I'm not sure how to take the "aplogist" comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted July 15, 2007 Author Share Posted July 15, 2007 And here we have it again. The old, "Well, African Americans are naturally better athletes," argument. Which is socially exceptable for some as-yet unknown reason. But let me say, "Well, whites are naturally better businessmen," and what happens?:doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: Its not about being better athletes and better businessmen, and its not all about more of one race than another in certain occupations (though that's part of it), and its not about you making less than your boss because they are black and you aren't (from your rhetorical response earlier) the problem is that on average when blacks and women are doing the same job as white males they make less for doing the same thing. This is the problem, and someone can bring out the Jimmy the Greek faux pas about blacks being better athletes, but the problem is that no one has yet to prove that whites are better business-people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooney Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 As for Mooney's request for an example of a study that shows disparate incomes....Now I realize that's only one study. However, I'd be glad to find more if and when either of you coughs up legitimate research that says otherwise. I asked for just one actual example of a black person currently making 75% of a white counterpart, doing the same, exact job. Not another "study". And I'm still waiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teller Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 I asked for just one actual example of a black person currently making 75% of a white counterpart, doing the same, exact job. Not another "study".And I'm still waiting. It's not worth it. On the other side of this debate, racism is not only acceptable, it's strongly encouraged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted July 15, 2007 Author Share Posted July 15, 2007 I asked for just one actual example of a black person currently making 75% of a white counterpart, doing the same, exact job. Not another "study".And I'm still waiting. Are you doubting the studies? If so the the onus is on you to question those studies, until then their findings stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooney Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Are you doubting the studies? If so the the onus is on you to question those studies, until then their findings stand. Too funny. Keep running. I never said I doubted the studies. Just requesting, one, just one, actual example of a black person currently making 75% of his/her white counterpart, in the same, exact job. Not another study. Nice try though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooney Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 It's not worth it. No worries. I took the rest of the day off and the Nats are playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted July 15, 2007 Author Share Posted July 15, 2007 Too funny. Keep running. I never said I doubted the studies. Just requesting, one, just one, actual example of a black person currently making 75% of his/her white counterpart, in the same, exact job. Not another study. Nice try though. Do you believe that there is equitable pay for equal jobs between whites and blacks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Too funny. Keep running. I never said I doubted the studies. Just requesting, one, just one, actual example of a black person currently making 75% of his/her white counterpart, in the same, exact job. Not another study. Nice try though. Try this on for size. Given the already posted studies none of us feel the need to do more research to find a particular case. You are welcome to join the debate using the already posted studies as a starting point (e.g. provide a reason why they might be incorrect or flawed based on some actual facts and not guesses, beliefs, or inneuendo), post a contradictory study or fact, or you can continue to repeat yourself, in which case, I would suggest that everybody just ignore you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooney Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Do you believe that there is equitable pay for equal jobs between whites and blacks? Show me one actual, current example, where a black person is making 75% of a white counterpart, in the same, exact job. Just one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teller Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Show me one actual, current example, where a black person is making 75% of a white counterpart, in the same, exact job.Just one. They can't do it. We know who's right, save the hassle. Remember earlier in this thread when I wanted just one privilege or entitlement or job, or any damn thing that I can have that an African American in this country can't? Yeaaahhh...They couldn't find that either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooney Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Try this on for size. Given the already posted studies none of us feel the need to do more research to find a particular case. You are welcome to join the debate using the already posted studies as a starting point (e.g. provide a reason why they might be incorrect or flawed based on some actual facts and not guesses, beliefs, or inneuendo), post a contradictory study or fact, or you can continue to repeat yourself, in which case, I would suggest that everybody just ignore you. Of course you do. You have all these dated "studies" at your fingertips, but can't provide one actual, current example. Google must be broken on your internet. Keep on running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted July 15, 2007 Author Share Posted July 15, 2007 Show me one actual, current example, where a black person is making 75% of a white counterpart, in the same, exact job.Just one. Name one of the members of my church. Just one, BTW first and last name is a must. Because you can't pull one name out of my church does that mean that they don't exist? So you keep on demanding one actual example, and we'll keep pointing you to the studies that log many many examples. So, it is on you to disprove the standards that are not questioned by anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted July 15, 2007 Author Share Posted July 15, 2007 Here are some where the pay inequity was later rectified. http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:UWQZDcisimkJ:chronicle.com/che-data/articles.dir/art-44.dir/issue-16.dir/16a06001.htm+unequal+pay+race+example&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=us These are for gender, but race applies as well in other instances. * In February, the Labor Department's Office of Federal Contract Compliance announced that American University would pay $244,600 in back pay and $80,710 in salary adjustments to female staff members whom the agency had determined were being paid less than their male counterparts. * In August, a retired female professor from Kent State University won three years of back pay after a jury found that the university had violated the Equal Pay Act in setting her salary. * In 1995, a jury awarded a professor at Boise State University back pay of $3,700, compensatory damages of $35,000, and damages of $7,000 for suffering retaliation after complaining about her salary. During an 11-day jury trial, an expert testified that the professor's salary ranged from 20 per cent to 16 per cent less than that of men in comparable positions. * A 1993 study at the University of Hawaii at Manoa found that both women and minority men and women experienced salary inequities. To rectify the situation, the institution paid out more than $1.5-million to 171 women, an average of $8,920 each. * Following another 1993 study, the State University of New York paid $2.2-million in wage adjustments to women and members of minority groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 They can't do it. We know who's right, save the hassle.Remember earlier in this thread when I wanted just one privilege or entitlement or job, or any damn thing that I can have that an African American in this country can't? Yeaaahhh...They couldn't find that either. Actually, that's easy. Head of the KKK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teller Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 So, it is on you to disprove the standards that are not questioned by anyone. ASF, you're a pretty straight shooter, but do you not see the arrogance of, "Let's assume that my OPINION is right until you prove that it's wrong?" And to say that the standards are "not question by anyone" is just false. Mooney and I both questioned them. Why, please, someone tell me why it's the allegedly enlightened (not necessarily you, ASF) who demand that everyone accept their position, who can be racist on behalf of black athletes with the presumption they're better, who can FIGHT for institutionalized racism that CLEARLY has an impact on individual's livelihoods, and yet somehow try to project some sort of moral high ground? You see it in race threads. You see it in global warming threads ("All the scientists agree!") The HELL they do! In MOST threads these days, our resident libs start with the basic assumption that they are correct, and that their opinion MUST be accepted at face value by the other participants in the thread. It's like this, if your position is strong you can defend it. If it's not, you sit back and demand that everyone accept the facts as you interpret them. Do we want to have honest debates around here, or are we going to hide behind opinion presented as truth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teller Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Actually, that's easy. Head of the KKK. And I can't be head of the New Black Panther Party. Wow. Still equal. Nice effort though. :applause: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Apparently at least up until January, 2007.But hey, it's nice to know that "equality" means some folks can get a call back with a criminal record but as for me and my squeaky clean record, we can go fly a kite. Actually according to the study you would be AS likely to get a call back as a felon...not that thats much better I will also note the study was done in the most segregated major city in the US...which might affect the result. That said, I agree there is still racism (I can do that too) and enforcement and penalties for it are a much better solution than Affirmative Action for all concerned imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 And I can't be head of the New Black Panther Party. Wow. Still equal. Nice effort though. :applause: That's not what you said though. And even if you can name a position that a White person can't hold for every one that I can name a Black person can't hold that certainly doesn't result in equality nor does it mean the law is being followed. I'll happily admit that both sides are being discriminatory. The solution if for both sides to stop, and the law as written be enforced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted July 15, 2007 Author Share Posted July 15, 2007 ASF, you're a pretty straight shooter, but do you not see the arrogance of, "Let's assume that my OPINION is right until you prove that it's wrong?" And to say that the standards are "not question by anyone" is just false. Mooney and I both questioned them. Don't you also understand the arrogance that continues to question study after study that consistenty shows pay inequity between races and gender? At what point do you finally have to say, ok maybe there is a problem, so lets do something about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teller Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 The solution if for both sides to stop, and the law as written be enforced. And here we have 100% agreement. The laws are already in place to prevent discrimination where it can be proven. That prevents one sides biases from being institutionalized. Do away with affirmative action, and we kill the entire beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleBen Posted July 15, 2007 Share Posted July 15, 2007 Name one of the members of my church.Just one, BTW first and last name is a must. Because you can't pull one name out of my church does that mean that they don't exist? So you keep on demanding one actual example, and we'll keep pointing you to the studies that log many many examples. So, it is on you to disprove the standards that are not questioned by anyone. Joseph Smith? John Martin? James Miller? Ferris Bueller? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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