Do you Blame Hip Hop?

[headexplode]

If by lunatic you meant one of the most brilliant and insightful men of all time, and the greatest mind of the 19th century, then yeah. The guy was a full professor of phiology at the University of Basel by age 24. He pretty much invented depth psychology.

There was a time back in the 1910s-40s when Nietzsche was lambasted due to the Nazi's usurpation of some of his ideas, but since Kaufman's translations of him after WWII, pretty much everyone concedes he is a brilliant philosopher.

To call him a lunatic is silly. He did, late in life, have his mental health effected by syphllis that killed him. But none of his writings were from that period.

The current rap/hiphop culture is proof positive of Nietzsche's theories on on master/slave morality. And he wrote this stuff in 1870.

I thought he was sick when he wrote "Thus Spake Zarathustra." Now, that's some crazy ****, right there.

[Chuong9]

I'm not sure if everyone understands exactly what hip hop really is compared to rap. I know many people who think hip hop and rap are the same thing. It'd take a while to fully explain, but this site should help. Even though it's not 100% accurate, it's the first thing that came up when I searched:

http://www.rapnews.net/0-202-259247-00.html

Basically, hip hop is a cultural movement, and rap is PART of it. The other three parts are breakdancing, grafitti, and DJ-ing. I don't see signifcant harm in breakdancing or DJ-ing, I think those bring more cultures together than they cause problems. I don't want to go into detail about grafitti, but not all grafitti is negative. Yes, it's against the law, but not all people do it to try to look gangster or cool, a misconception, some people do it to send a social, political, etc. message, and the message can be positive. When it comes to rapping, there are many styles, something that many people confuse too. Using some popular examples, T.I. is southern, Black Eyed Peas is alternative, and Snoop Dogg is west coast. The link up there has a decent list, I suggest taking a quick look at it.

Back to the quesiton, no, I don't blame hip hop. If a girl grows up to be a stripper, it's not because she watched too many Lil' Jon or Snoop Dogg videos. If someone commits a crime, it's not because they watched too many 50 Cent videos (bad example). There are many more reasons, and hip hop shouldn't be one of them. If hip hop were to disappear one day, trust me, there would be many more problems than solutions.

Now I can see why people don't like rap and why parents, like mine, really hate it. That's because people aren't being exposed to enough styles. The three main sources of music where I live are: The Internet, The Television, The Radio (declining).

The TV is probably the best example of what I'm trying to say. The songs on popular music sites are pretty much what's popular on TV, and the songs on the radio are also what's popular on TV. There's pretty much three stations that everyone around here goes to in order to listen to music: MTV, MTV2, and VH1. Now, they only play the most popular songs, because they want the most viewers. Because of this, If I were to turn on MTV to listen to some rap, I would be gauranteed to see Lil' Wayne, T.I., Lil' Jon, or Akon eventually. Many people like these artists, and I don't consider that a bad thing, they simply favor that style. Personally, I hate them because they aren't really sending a message, so my opinion is probably biased. Due to this, the only artist I ever watch (that's shown frequently) is Kanye.

The reason kids favor these songs are because, it's pretty much all they hear. Using the list, the songs played constantly are either alternative, crunk, gangsta, pop rap, and southern. Other styles are played, but you're gauranteed to see one of these if you watch for thirty minutes. The first video I ever saw on MTV was Candy Shop by 50 Cent. The first video I ever saw on the Internet was Get Low by Lil' Jon/East Side Boyz. Basically, I think music like this would be the kids first exposure to rap. Kids want to fit in, so once they see it everywhere, it becomes popular = good. That's my theory for why so many people like Lil' Wayne. Here's an excerpt from a KRS-One song:

Rap is something you do, hip hop is something you live.

The difference is kids nowadays, they got the videos.

Rappers don't need skills to build so they don't really know.

If I went around my school and asked people if they thought Lil' Wayne, T.I. and 50 Cent or Common, Talib Kweli, and Mos Def were better rappers, a huge majority would probably choose a first group. The problem I see is not that they chose the first group, but that most haven't even heard songs by the second group, except maybe Common.

I was going to write more, but I think I'm rambling on. Basically, hip hop is not the problem at all. Rap is not the problem either. However, A PROBLEM IS that kids aren't being exposed to enough styles of rap. If MTV were to show some Nas, some KRS-One, some Blackstar, I gaurantee many kids would switch to favoring those types of artists as they grew older, I know I did.

T.I. AND LIL' WAYNE SHOULD NOT BE THE FACE OF RAP

And a lot of people are saying the majority of rappers are degrading to people and only making music for money. You shold probably change it to rappers that are seen on MTV frequently, because there are MANY, MANY more talented rappers that are making music for MUCH LESS money.

[sean_e_b]

So are you saying that ppl should not do Charities and donations? Does this not influence a person when they see their favorite hip hop artist come to their school and say here is $100K to help your school get you into college or when 5 or 6 of them go to a school with 100 trees to be planted? what if they didnt do that at all?

In no way am I saying they shouldn't give to charities or donations, it's just that there is no spotlight put on the situation for it to to have a legitamate influence.

The media has always tried to bring down hip hop mainly because its “easy news” and that’s what every1 expect them to say. But what about Puff Daddy and his role in the election. JayZ with his hand in the computer industry and his brand or computer that were more affordable for less fortunate ppl. You have LL Cool who works to trying to cure aids in Africa?

With the way these rappers degrade people in their music it is hard to believe that they care about people. I realize that many of them do care about some people, but they seen to care little about people in general. In the end I'd say a majority of these rappers do it for some good publicity, which in turn will help them make more money in the long run.

Sorry for taking so long to respond. I was to busy watching Braveheart.

[Baculus]

hip hop does not Promote violence it talks about true stories hats really going on in the would today. you got to listen to everything and not pick out Key words. Im going to guess that you dont really listen to Hip Hop music because you dont care for it. meaning you dont take the time to study whats being said. you may not under stand many of the terms being used. you cant knock something if dont listen to it. Now again there is always a few bad apples but you cant dislike an entire genre of music because of that that would set you back 400 years.

metal music is know for suicide and rebellion right?

There is some hip hop that has promoted violence. And there is hiphop that do contain true stories within it as well. But I would find it difficult to deny that there is a negative element that has come from *some* hip culture, even if you enjoy the music. And I have enjoyed some hip hop, but I am not a fan of the genre in general, because I like rock and roll and guitars. (Though I do enjoy electronica that has hip hop elements...) Hip hop ain't rock and it just doesn't do it for me, especially since so many hip hop songs these days just don't...I dunno, rock. But that is my taste. I have been around for a while so it isn't as if I am completely unfamiliar with the musical genre....I just don't find it that interesting.

But this has nothing to do with liking, or disliking, hip hop and my criticism towards it or some of its listeners, or of some of the cultural elements that have grown around it. It would be silly for me to state my criticisms just because I "don't like the music," which isn't completely the case. You may want to re-read my original post, after all.

You need to find a better defense then that.

Anyways, I wouldn't say that metal is associated with suicide - that is more "emo." But it definitely is associated with rebellion.

[HOF44]

Pretty sure he was being sarcastic. I could be wrong, though.

Not Rince, he has always blamed Cash for a lot of society's ills. He really hates the guy.

[Zguy28]

Hiphop is often entertaining but the lyrics are disturbing. They promote a vile culture where murder is viewed as understandable over something as pathetic as a perceived lack of respect. Women in rap music are described as absolute trash to be used for enjoyment then tossed asside.

This sounds like you are describing 18th century Samurai culture in Japan.

Just joking.

By the way I agree with you.

[CrazyJoe92]

You're asking a difficult question.

To answer it, I'd have to tell you to read some Nietzsche. In several of his books, including Beyond Good and Evil, Nietzsche developed a theory about Master morality and Slave Morality. He was not talking about "slavery" as we in America think about, and there was no racial context to what he was saying. Nietzsche said that the dominant and powerful in society develop what he calls "master morality." They define what is good and bad. Those that are weak or oppressed in society resent the masters and reject the masters' morality. In defiance, they reject the things valued by the masters as good and instead label them as evil. Similarly, the things which are bad under the master's morality, is often considered to be good by the slave's morality. And ultimately, Nietzsche thought that slave morality so undermines master morality that master morality is destroyed.

Now apply that today. What are the things promoted in "hip-hop" culture? Misogyny, promiscuity, drug use, lack of parental responsibility, dog-fighting, gangs, "thug life," etc. What do these things have in common? These are all things which are deemed "bad" by the morality of the powerful. What are the things which are rejected by hip-hop culture? Education, monogamy, conformance with the laws, being articulate in the way you talk, being able to write well, dressing professionally, respect for the laws and police, etc. These are all things which are deemed "good" by the morality of the powerful.

So really, what hiphop culture is doing is proving Nietzsche's point about slave morality undermining master morality and ultimately destroying it by valuing things that master morality abhors and rejecting that which applauds master morality. Nietzsche argued that was inevitable, and to the extent that is true, I don't know how to "blame" hiphop culture. It disgusts me because I feel the disrespect for the law and glorified ignorant behavior is revolting and harmful to society, but it is probably inevitable, and if it wasn't "hip hop" it would have manifested itself in some other way.

Nice, but you got to separate the music from the artist at one point. remember that they are giving America what they want to hear just like mcdonalds's and the fat in their food. ( now Im looking at it at a business stand point)

When stephen king, Quentin Tarantino, Spielberg, or any other write/movie maker makes a movie about killing, drugs, sex ,and more comes out with something its not a problem and ppl say nothing about it because movies don't make money like hip hop and its easy to pick on artist. You prob didnt realize that many of the artist dont drink smoke or use drugs and thats because Fox5 does not want you to know that.

These artist are not bad ppl because they dress comfortable. the funny thing is that you have probably only seen pictures of them out minding their business living their everyday life.

They dress really nice

[Zguy28]

Not Rince, he has always blamed Cash for a lot of society's ills. He really hates the guy.

How can you hate Cash?

My Mother's Hymn Book is one of my favorite albums.

[RonJeremy]

Pretty sure he was being sarcastic. I could be wrong, though.

Sarcastic? There is never any sarcasm on this board.

[GibbsFactor]

I don't blame any one genre, I blame MTV. NWA was around before this mess that is current pop culture. It was some tough stuff but not mainstream. MTV influences todays culture so much that what they air and do, so do the people of the US. Had they resisted the urge to sell their souls to the devil, our country's morals might not be so inept today. As such, music wouldn't have changed to the crap it all is today.

[AJ_Skins]

If by lunatic you meant one of the most brilliant and insightful men of all time, and the greatest mind of the 19th century, then yeah. The guy was a full professor of phiology at the University of Basel by age 24. He pretty much invented depth psychology.

There was a time back in the 1910s-40s when Nietzsche was lambasted due to the Nazi's usurpation of some of his ideas, but since Kaufman's translations of him after WWII, pretty much everyone concedes he is a brilliant philosopher.

To call him a lunatic is silly. He did, late in life, have his mental health effected by syphllis that killed him. But none of his writings were from that period.

The current rap/hiphop culture is proof positive of Nietzsche's theories on on master/slave morality. And he wrote this stuff in 1870.

I didn't say he was stupid. I said he was a lunatic. He was a disturbed individual. And yes, I base that on having personally read his writings. The fact that he has been whitewashed and "rehabilitated" is proof of the corruption of academia. He absolutely, without question, provided the philosophical foundation for Nazism, whether he would have foreseen it or not. To claim otherwise requires a monumental feat of rationalization.

The same people absolve Marx from any responsibility for communism too, so I guess it shouldn't be a surprise.

[ldysknzfn1]

I can't say that I blame hip-hop for the troubles of today entirely. I do, however, wish that some of these artists would think a little harder about the image they are portraying. Alot of them say.."it's just music...I'm not really that way". Well how are kids supposed to know that if all they see is what you portray in a video? I've had disagreements w/kids in my neighborhood over this very question. I've often asked them.."do you really think X(whichever artist we're dicussing)does that? Do you think he actually owns all of those vehicles?" Of course the kids say..yeah b/c if he didn't own the car how can he drive it?:doh: But we're talking about kids here. Alot of little kids don't know reality from TV. When my kids were small(ages 5-6), my son was constantly asking me when watched TV if that person was really dead...He also asked this question when & if he happened to watch the news. It was hard to explain to him @ that age why ppl who got killed & were on the news were really dead and ppl who got killed in movies weren't. So it's not just music sometimes. Some of these kids really believe these artist live this way and the emulate them. That's when parents should step in and do what needs to be done. But how often does that happen nowadays. Most kids I know are practically raising themselves.

I wish they would just think about the audience whose buying these CD's and send more positive messages. There's money in that also. Ask Will Smith.

[CrazyJoe92]

In no way am I saying they shouldn't give to charities or donations, it's just that there is no spotlight put on the situation for it to to have a legitamate influence.

With the way these rappers degrade people in their music it is hard to believe that they care about people. I realize that many of them do care about some people, but they seen to care little about people in general. In the end I'd say a majority of these rappers do it for some good publicity, which in turn will help them make more money in the long run.

Sorry for taking so long to respond. I was to busy watching Braveheart.

not a problem,

But I was kinda unsure of on what you mean in your first statement.

but on your second statement. you kinda generalized it like everything thats said is. whats difference from something being said in a movie and then something being said in music?

when you say "these rappers do it for some good publicity, which in turn will help them make more money in the long run."

then you have to say that about every1 who every did any giving. when your president gives 9million to the Gov for education he is doing that to only bring his ratings up in the poll and put more money in his pocket. when princess Diana was giving to the kids it was only to make herself look good. when Bil gates gives millions to fix Aids its only to help him sale Windows.

Yes, in one way or another it will help these ppl but i dont think thats why they do it. whenever you give something you will get a tax write off no matter what it is. I gave my car to a company because I wanted to help yes i got a write off but i didnt do it for that. I could have sold the car and got more for it.

see my point? if they were a nobody it would not really matter.

[CrazyJoe92]

There is some hip hop that has promoted violence. And there is hiphop that do contain true stories within it as well. But I would find it difficult to deny that there is a negative element that has come from *some* hip culture, even if you enjoy the music. And I have enjoyed some hip hop, but I am not a fan of the genre in general, because I like rock and roll and guitars. (Though I do enjoy electronica that has hip hop elements...) Hip hop ain't rock and it just doesn't do it for me, especially since so many hip hop songs these days just don't...I dunno, rock. But that is my taste. I have been around for a while so it isn't as if I am completely unfamiliar with the musical genre....I just don't find it that interesting.

But this has nothing to do with liking, or disliking, hip hop and my criticism towards it or some of its listeners, or of some of the cultural elements that have grown around it. It would be silly for me to state my criticisms just because I "don't like the music," which isn't completely the case. You may want to re-read my original post, after all.

You need to find a better defense then that.

Anyways, I wouldn't say that metal is associated with suicide - that is more "emo." But it definitely is associated with rebellion.

I can respect the fact that you don't like hip hop.

and like i said before many times "there is always a bad apple in the bunch" Im only responding to the statements by other members if you re read my posts. I like all music because i dont really like to break them down it to any section. only good music and bad music. If i had to break it down I can tell you im big on hip hop but not rap music just because like to hear singing.

the original topic/post was if you blame hip hop.... do you blame hip hop?

[Siven]

As Chris Rock said in his concert Bigger and Blacker, "whatever happened to being crazy?"

Quoted for emphasis!:applause:

[No_Pressure]

Pop culture affects people greatly, yes, but I don't think that an average person listens to some gangster rap about killing people and stealing **** and decides to commit crimes and murder. I have been listening to metallica for years and don't want to be around for the biblical apocalypse to see the four horsemen, don't want to seek out people and destroy them, don't want to be put in the electric chair, don't want to be maimed in a war, and don't want to be dubbed unforgiven, or dub other people unforgiven. I don't know if many KISS fans have in fact rocked and rolled for an entire night, or partied every single day. Just because rap sometimes deals with more realistic issues and circumstances doesn't mean it has any more of an influence on someone than other bands in other genres.

In my opinion many forms of rap or hip hop are a sign of moral decline in the nation, and the popularity of songs about having raunchy sex with anything that moves, murdering everybody, and doing massive amounts of illegal narcotics are an indicator of what society has become in America. This is not unique to a music genre however...rock, metal, pop, whatever it is, even country has songs that become wildly popular but are about morally degrading behavior. Rap is a popular form of music these days, especially with younger listeners which is why it gets the publicity for stuff like this.

Media influences are not ruining America. Bad parenting, the government, and a million other things are ruining America. Popular music about bad things is just a sign that people either A. Don't give a crap or B. Are getting really stupid. This must be determined on a case by case basis.

[19Skins72]

I blame people...blaming guns, hip hop etc. is generally a moronic way to go about your day...just my :2cents:

[CrazyJoe92]

I can't say that I blame hip-hop for the troubles of today entirely. I do, however, wish that some of these artists would think a little harder about the image they are portraying. Alot of them say.."it's just music...I'm not really that way". Well how are kids supposed to know that if all they see is what you portray in a video? I've had disagreements w/kids in my neighborhood over this very question. I've often asked them.."do you really think X(whichever artist we're dicussing)does that? Do you think he actually owns all of those vehicles?" Of course the kids say..yeah b/c if he didn't own the car how can he drive it?:doh: But we're talking about kids here. Alot of little kids don't know reality from TV. When my kids were small(ages 5-6), my son was constantly asking me when watched TV if that person was really dead...He also asked this question when & if he happened to watch the news. It was hard to explain to him @ that age why ppl who got killed & were on the news were really dead and ppl who got killed in movies weren't. So it's not just music sometimes. Some of these kids really believe these artist live this way and the emulate them. That's when parents should step in and do what needs to be done. But how often does that happen nowadays. Most kids I know are practically raising themselves.

I wish they would just think about the audience whose buying these CD's and send more positive messages. There's money in that also. Ask Will Smith.

well the thing is that I have not see a music video where some one is being killed or shot at. what video is this? and remember these videos are not real just like in the movies. and even if what you are saying is true why are the kids watching this? these artist didnt buy the TV put kids in from on the TV and say watch. thats what we have the parental Chip in the TV for but no1 wants to use it.

and you may be right a lot of these ppl might now own some of the things shown on TV but some of them do and what does it matter lol?

there are ppl who own more that 6 cars Seinfeld's does. why can t 50cent?

the CD's that are being sold say "Parental Advisory" and stores cant sale them to kids. the only way these kids can get them legaly is from walmart and their CD's dont have bad words

[pjfootballer]

I blame Brunell for all the problems with the hip hop culture.

[Bang]

Hip Hop is what it is. People have to take some responsibility unto themselves to behave properly, AND artists need to take some responsibility to their audience. If gang violence is a problem and your music glorifies it, then it's up to you to change your message.

You can't blame the music, because hip hop can be done without the negative aspects.

AND negative aspects are not necessarily a thing that must be eradicated. Here it falls upon the listener to be responsible and not go out and shoot a guy because the song is about that.

If people exercised a little self control, these problems wouldn't be so big. If artists exercised a little caution knowing what their lyric may create, if kids listening exercised a little sense that being a thug is a BAD thing, then the music would not be an issue.

~Bang

[WVUforREDSKINS]

I don't blame any one genre, I blame MTV. NWA was around before this mess that is current pop culture. It was some tough stuff but not mainstream. MTV influences todays culture so much that what they air and do, so do the people of the US. Had they resisted the urge to sell their souls to the devil, our country's morals might not be so inept today. As such, music wouldn't have changed to the crap it all is today.

Excellent point!!!!

[Kosher Ham]

"Kick in the door, waving the 44".

--Notorious B.I.G.

[Blackest Eyes]

I think what it all boils down to is that people need to take responsibility for their actions. Yes, peoples surroundings can have a lot to do with how they act, but I think we need to have better and more positive role models. For example, Kanye West saying that George Bush dislikes black people during the Katrina crisis is completely uncalled for during a live broadcast. Have an opinion, believe in your opinion and support it, but don't be a clown about it. Anyhow, with better role models to learn from and knowing what is right and what is wrong will solve a lot of problems. I listen to a black metal band called Burzum. Varg (the singer, now emprisoned) burned churches and killed a man. I know the difference between right and wrong. Definitely not the best role model. To point out one sub-culture and blame it for social issues is just stupid because all sub-cultures will contribute a little.

[The Sisko]

It is the single most destructive influence on the black community that exists today. The fact that a bunch of white people buy it, sell it and are entertained by it is what is disturbing. By rewarding that kind of behavior and influence, they are doing more damage to the black community than the KKK ever did.

What's the world coming to? I actually agree wholeheartedly with AJ Skins. Go figure.:whoknows:

[The Sisko]

I will qualify what I said by saying that I grew up on rap. However, what passes for rap nowadays is a hollow shell of the stuff I grew up on. Back then, the worst you'd generally find was guys who espoused nothing more than getting your party on.

Today's gangster rap has mostly turned off and been tuned out by middle class black America.