Do you Blame Hip Hop?

[mcarey032]

While I used to listen to rap a whole lot when I was younger, I see that in reality it doesn't have the positive effect it once had. I didn't always agree with the political message, but I would say that at least there was something that Black people could look up to. Nowadays, I would say that rap has devolved into commercialism. It isn't too much different from pop in that respect. However, I do not blame societal problems on entertainment. I feel it is the responsiblity of the parents to take charge and stop their children if they see fit to listening to violent music and watching violent movies. The parents and the children are the ones who should be held accountable for the actions that they take.

[The Sisko]

Agreed. I think it's very likely that Hip Hop "culture" is nothing more than a reflection of the breakdown of the Black family. At the very least, the loss of viable families has left the influence of gangster rap and other negative forces within rap/Hip Hop unchecked. The results of that speak for themselves.

[CrazyJoe92]

Agreed. I think it's very likely that Hip Hop "culture" is nothing more than a reflection of the breakdown of the Black family. At the very least, the loss of viable families has left the influence of gangster rap and other negative forces within rap/Hip Hop unchecked. The results of that speak for themselves.

I guess we can say the same thing about death metal alternative music o yea Mr Cash as well. Then we can say the same thing about Tom Cruse The Osbourne's, White Zombie and Metallica One thing that these ppl I just listed do a lot of is Drugs. they do More Drugs than Rap artist. A rapper Probably only Smokes Weed but the ppl that I listed lets start: Weed, cocaine, E pills, Meth, Ox, shrooms Glue, Gas, haha Should I say more?

The type of Music I listed promotes death, self suicide, body disfigurement and yes Drug abuse.

now lets speak as a business man working for the media. What would I talk about more? yes you guessed it. Im going to talk about something thats making a lot of money and that will make me a lot of money when i talk about it. Something that just about everyone loves all colors and races. it just so happens that I can play with all the stereotypes that have been put out over the years and make older ppl want to real what i have to write because it seems like its true and a lot of the older ppl still are stuck in their old ways. (this is not directed toward anyone in this group)

O yea don't let me forget about the beloved M Manson. The Problem is that Some one who doesn't study or better yet listen to music can only talk about what the media wants them to know. Now I figure most of the ppl on the Skins website are intelligent enough to know that what you see on TV is Not always real. How many ppl have been made to look bad when their not?

Conclusion:

You cant blame Hip Hop or anything else for everyday problems because that will put you back 400 years.

[megared]

Agreed. I think it's very likely that Hip Hop "culture" is nothing more than a reflection of the breakdown of the Black family. At the very least, the loss of viable families has left the influence of gangster rap and other negative forces within rap/Hip Hop unchecked. The results of that speak for themselves.

I don't see your argument. The fall of rap music has come with the consolidation of record companies, and the loss of black entrepreneurs that made their own image. There's no more Master P's, Wu-Tang Clans, UGKs, Cash Moneys, or Bad Boys that made something out of nothing. Nowadays Jeezy, Lil Wayne, Rick Ross, etc, get the spotlight because a big wig in a suit sees that they're readily packaged for the masses.

History repeats itself...rap was so bad when Luke pushed new limits, when east coast groups were coming out militant...when the west made being gangsta popular...when rappers discovered the mafioso themes...so on & so forth.

Grandmaster Flash said it best in '82:

"A child is born with no state of mind

Blind to the ways of mankind

God is smiling on you but he's frowning too

Because only God knows what you’ll go through

You’ll grow in the ghetto, living second rate

And your eyes will sing a song of deep hate

The places you’re playin’, where you stay

Looks like one great big alley way

You'll admire all the number book takers

Thugs, pimps, pushers and the big money makers

Driving big cars, spending twenties and tens

And you wanna grow up to be just like them, huh,

Smugglers, scrambles, burglars, gamblers

Pickpockets, peddlers even panhandlers..."

[Baculus]

I can respect the fact that you don't like hip hop.

and like i said before many times "there is always a bad apple in the bunch" Im only responding to the statements by other members if you re read my posts. I like all music because i dont really like to break them down it to any section. only good music and bad music. If i had to break it down I can tell you im big on hip hop but not rap music just because like to hear singing.

the original topic/post was if you blame hip hop.... do you blame hip hop?

I've given my answer previously: blame elements of hiphop, mostly portions of the culture associated with the music, due to reasons I have already cited. Of course, music can only have so much of an influence, but when a culture develops and starts affect larger sections of society, then that is when it is a negative influence.

This opinion does not apply to every hiphop artist, since that would be an unfair acrosss the board sweeping statement. But I do believe certain artists and genre of hiphop, with the accompanying culture, is a negative influence.

[Baculus]

I guess we can say the same thing about death metal alternative music o yea Mr Cash as well. Then we can say the same thing about Tom Cruse The Osbourne's, White Zombie and Metallica One thing that these ppl I just listed do a lot of is Drugs. they do More Drugs than Rap artist. A rapper Probably only Smokes Weed but the ppl that I listed lets start: Weed, cocaine, E pills, Meth, Ox, shrooms Glue, Gas, haha Should I say more?

The type of Music I listed promotes death, self suicide, body disfigurement and yes Drug abuse.

Well, there is often an difference: A lot of metal is more akin to a horror movie then "promoting violence": Look at Rob Zombie or a lot of the early metal bands. They were all fans of horror movies (which Rob Zombies even directs.) A LOT of metal is tongue-in-cheek: it is all "ghoulishness" of horror, and that is the difference. Metal bands aren't actually purveying the thought that you should be an undead serial killer or something. And most metal fans realize that, so that it doesn't become a part of their everyday life, unlike some of the more negative aspects of hiphop (which applies to "thugs" more then, say, the average hiphop fan).

BTW, did you really stick Tom Cruise's name in there?! LOL.

Drug use has always accompanied rock-n-roll: For good or bad, it is part of the lifestyle of many musicians, and even further, with jazz artists using heroin. Drug use is prevelant in many aspects of music. Though, I will say that I haven't heard of many artists using glue and "gas." (?)

But it is a misconstrue to say these bands promote "suicide," "disfirgurement,' and the likes. For example, "Suicide Solution," one of the more infamous songs, was actually anti-suicide, so it is easy to misunderstand the nature of songs if you don't listen to them. And of course, this can apply to some hiphop as well, if they are talking about life on the street and its violence, as opposed to actually espousing the violence.

You cant blame Hip Hop or anything else for everyday problems because that will put you back 400 years.

I am not sure what that means, but I believe that elements of the culture surrounding the music do need to be analyzed, and more so as a negative.

[CrazyJoe92]

I've given my answer previously: blame elements of hiphop, mostly portions of the culture associated with the music, due to reasons I have already cited. Of course, music can only have so much of an influence, but when a culture develops and starts affect larger sections of society, then that is when it is a negative influence.

This opinion does not apply to every hiphop artist, since that would be an unfair acrosss the board sweeping statement. But I do believe certain artists and genre of hiphop, with the accompanying culture, is a negative influence.

So you dont blame Hip hop then. thats all i wanted to know

I blame death metal

[TradeTheBeal!]

Hip-Hop is not the problem, "prison culture" is the problem. As well as, by extension, the war on drugs and the booming prison industry it created.

Let Chuck D break it down for ya....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uPlIaF65PM

[CrazyJoe92]

Well, there is often an difference: A lot of metal is more akin to a horror movie then "promoting violence": Look at Rob Zombie or a lot of the early metal bands. They were all fans of horror movies (which Rob Zombies even directs.) A LOT of metal is tongue-in-cheek: it is all "ghoulishness" of horror, and that is the difference. Metal bands aren't actually purveying the thought that you should be an undead serial killer or something. And most metal fans realize that, so that it doesn't become a part of their everyday life, unlike some of the more negative aspects of hiphop (which applies to "thugs" more then, say, the average hiphop fan).

BTW, did you really stick Tom Cruise's name in there?! LOL.

Drug use has always accompanied rock-n-roll: For good or bad, it is part of the lifestyle of many musicians, and even further, with jazz artists using heroin. Drug use is prevelant in many aspects of music. Though, I will say that I haven't heard of many artists using glue and "gas." (?)

But it is a misconstrue to say these bands promote "suicide," "disfirgurement,' and the likes. For example, "Suicide Solution," one of the more infamous songs, was actually anti-suicide, so it is easy to misunderstand the nature of songs if you don't listen to them. And of course, this can apply to some hiphop as well, if they are talking about life on the street and its violence, as opposed to actually espousing the violence.

I am not sure what that means, but I believe that elements of the culture surrounding the music do need to be analyzed, and more so as a negative.

haha no no no no.. please lets be real here if you can say Rap Music/ HipHop is a big influence then you can go ahead and add that death metal hard rock stuff in there too. there is no if ands or buts. Who is the avg hip hop fan? you will be surprised when you find out. yes it is know for all the things I listed that you kinda left out when you Quoted me was that for a reason sir? Im not sure but was there a big prob with Mr mansion and his Ribs? and they might have been removed for sexual reason? is it me or does metal music kinda make kids want to cut their wrists? now I dont blame any music for anything but because you say music is a "big influence" I will say this for kicks

What about Mr O Osborn and his entire family? is it me or are they all walking drugs? hha they would tell you they are themselves. you sound like your condoning drugs; you did say its a big part of music. when talk about drugs i mean drugs other than weed. I have spoke with many many ppl in the hip hop/ rap industry the main drug is weed but the funny thing is that most of them dont smoke or drink, i dont think you knew about that. now the ppl i have ran in to who are apart of the "rock n roll" music. More than weed

I guess its ok for Rob Zombie to direct a movie with killing and body disfigurement. but its not ok for master P to direct a movie with guns even thought its a known comedy? there is no comedy in Rob Zombie movies but in a master P movie it's literally a comedy where everyone knows its a comedy. Mr Rob didnt make a Comedy death movie did he?

"Suicide Solution," one of the more infamous songs, was actually anti-suicide so it is easy to misunderstand the nature of songs if you don't listen to them.

but didnt i just kinda say that to you about rap music? I mean I know I did somewhere in this post sir. You dont under stand rap so you misunderstand rap music. meaning you listen to keywords that have been fabricated in your mind by the media and with out thinking or taking the time to listen you point the finger. Now im going to take an educated guess and say you dont take the time to listen only because you almost 40 (this is no way to be mean so please dont take it that way) its the same thing as ppl who are in their early 20's who dont like Elvis, J cash.... So please dont knock something if you have not the slightest clue of what a lot of it means. I promise i wont do that to you.

O yea I was joking when I used Tom Cruise as an example I guess my jokes are funny but I was not joking about the Glue and the Gas

[TradeTheBeal!]

^^^Stay in School, joe.

[CrazyJoe92]

^^^Stay in School, joe.

haha Ive already graduated computer science

[Baculus]

haha no no no no.. please lets be real here if you can say Rap Music/ HipHop is a big influence then you can go ahead and add that death metal hard rock stuff in there too. there is no if ands or buts. Who is the avg hip hop fan? you will be surprised when you find out. yes it is know for all the things I listed that you kinda left out when you Quoted me was that for a reason sir? Im not sure but was there a big prob with Mr mansion and his Ribs? and they might have been removed for sexual reason? is it me or does metal music kinda make kids want to cut their wrists? now I dont blame any music for anything but because you say music is a "big influence" I will say this for kicks

You are not examining the large social impact on metal vs. hiphop. Trying to cite examples such as Manson, who isn't metal per se, or Ozzy, who is the worst example possible for ANY music, isn't exactly a good comparative argument. And I never said that metal wasn't a huge influence: Indeed it is. But it just has a different type of influence over, say, hiphop, or elements of hiphop (and of a certain genre).

I don't know anything about Manson ribs. Sorry. I am not sure what that would have to do with heavy metal, but it is rather strange that you brought that up. Again, most kids that tend to "cut" tend to be into other music, such as emo or gothic, vs. just heavy metal. There is definitely a gloom and doom element to some metal, but it is more of a *personal* "gloom and doom," which is different then the issues that we are discussing with hiphop. It is more of an internalized type of issue, which is a different subject.

What about Mr O Osborn and his entire family? is it me or are they all walking drugs? hha they would tell you they are themselves. you sound like your condoning drugs; you did say its a big part of music. when talk about drugs i mean drugs other than weed. I have spoke with many many ppl in the hip hop/ rap industry the main drug is weed but the funny thing is that most of them dont smoke or drink, i dont think you knew about that. now the ppl i have ran in to who are apart of the "rock n roll" music. More than weed

Ozzy is Ozzy. Ozzy is an artist in metal, and probably one of the more notorious artists. Also, please re-read my post on the issue of drug use so that you can actually discuss what I stated. For me, that is a minor issue since many music genres have some element of drug use. and it wouldn't be accurate to blame those issues on just hiphop, since drug usage has been an issue, for good or bad, for decades. Again, read my posts instead of just typing random responses.

I guess its ok for Rob Zombie to direct a movie with killing and body disfigurement. but its not ok for master P to direct a movie with guns even thought its a known comedy? there is no comedy in Rob Zombie movies but in a master P movie it's literally a comedy where everyone knows its a comedy. Mr Rob didnt make a Comedy death movie did he?

I never even touched upon any elements that you are discussing in this paragraph. I have no idea who Master P. is and never mentioned him, but I am sure I wouldn't have any issues with a comedy. Also, there ARE comedic elements in Rob Zombie movies: it is just "dark" comedy, more akin to a "B" movie.

"Suicide Solution," one of the more infamous songs, was actually anti-suicide so it is easy to misunderstand the nature of songs if you don't listen to them.

but didnt i just kinda say that to you about rap music? I mean I know I did somewhere in this post sir. You dont under stand rap so you misunderstand rap music. meaning you listen to keywords that have been fabricated in your mind by the media and with out thinking or taking the time to listen you point the finger. Now im going to take an educated guess and say you dont take the time to listen only because you almost 40 (this is no way to be mean so please dont take it that way) its the same thing as ppl who are in their early 20's who dont like Elvis, J cash.... So please dont knock something if you have not the slightest clue of what a lot of it means. I promise i wont do that to you.

You don't appear to understand the issue at hand and being discussed: It isn't just about misunderstanding the context of song lyrics. You are defending songs that, to me, don't have to be defended, since it isn't ALL hiphop that I believe is the issue. I know you are defending the music form, but you are being a little broad in your defense of the musical genre. And this isn't about being "clueless," since some of the issues isn't just about the music, but the behaviour of some of its listeners and the CULTURE that has grown. Don't you understand that?

Just using "you don't understand the music!" isn't enough of a defense for some of the observable behaviour of some elements of "thug" hiphop culture.

O yea I was joking when I used Tom Cruise as an example I guess my jokes are funny but I was not joking about the Glue and the Gas

I have listened to metal for years, and I don't think I have known many folks to ever use "glue and gas." Maybe if you were in Brazil or something...