CrazyJoe92 Posted July 2, 2007 Author Share Posted July 2, 2007 No absolutely not. People are responsible for their own damn actions. The whole arguement is just ridiculous to me. Everyone has negative influences coming from somewhere or another, it's still always down to the individual to act on them. your right. if some1 is going to do something they will do it. some1 can see killing all their life and not kill. another person can see it one time and it will change their life. it all depend on that person. i cant even blame parents because it is virtually impossible for a parent to me with their kid all 24hrs of the day. what if they got 2 kids? these kids got to go to school and who knows what a teach or even another parent might say to that child when ur not there. if its goin to happen its going to happen. there is only so much a mom or dad can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyJoe92 Posted July 2, 2007 Author Share Posted July 2, 2007 I blame hip-hop for my eczema flare-up.Maybe I'm one of those crazy types who think that we should stop looking for role models in our entertainers. Maybe we could try to be role models for our own kids. haha i can dig that .. your right. i mean its just to easy to blame it or some else especially if they don't have kids lol :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ_Skins Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 It is the single most destructive influence on the black community that exists today. The fact that a bunch of white people buy it, sell it and are entertained by it is what is disturbing. By rewarding that kind of behavior and influence, they are doing more damage to the black community than the KKK ever did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 I am not sure if I blame hip-hop, rap - whatever - for issues, but I do think a certain attitude that comes with hip hop has been a negative influence. More so, the "thug life" attitude has spread and has become more cultural popular, which is a negative, IMO. it discourages education, encourages poor attitudes towards women, promotes violence, narcissism, and materialism, and basically doesn't encourage many of the attriibutes that I believe most societies find to be a positive. In fact, some elements of this culture I consider to be "garbage" culture: Not because it is "urban" culture, but it is a "throwaway" culture. Futhermore, I do find some of the artists, of this genre, at fault for the spread of this culture which I consider to be less-than-desirable. I am sure this would be considered a non-PC opinion, but I really could care less. Also, ou can't even compare music, such as metal, in the same realm, since metal generally isn't associated with some of the more negative attributes I mentioned earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight Judges Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 hip hop has precisely as much impact on my life as a moldy bag of tangerines in Cambodia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headexplode Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 It is the single most destructive influence on the black community that exists today. The fact that a bunch of white people buy it, sell it and are entertained by it is what is disturbing. By rewarding that kind of behavior and influence, they are doing more damage to the black community than the KKK ever did. I think you can say corporate mainstream hip-hop is destructive, you can't say that about the genre itself, because there are a lot of positive and conscious hip-hop artists who reject the ultra-violent, ultra-unrealistic rap stereotype. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zguy28 Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 yea a lot of ppl try to down hip hop and say that all rappers and artist under Hip Hop are a bad influence. I dont think thats true. a lot of ppl dont realize what these artist do behind closed doors. Why are they like that only behind closed doors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACW Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 It is the single most destructive influence on the black community that exists today. The fact that a bunch of white people buy it, sell it and are entertained by it is what is disturbing. By rewarding that kind of behavior and influence, they are doing more damage to the black community than the KKK ever did. Wow, use hyperbole much? In contrast to what you and MSF think, I like hip-hop/rap (I'm white) because I like the beat; I don't listen to the lyrics much (though Eminem has some clever ones). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
China Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 I blame hip hop for me not liking hip hop music. Of course, if I liked hip hop music then hip hop would be to blame for that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins24 Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Personally, I blame Mark Brunell... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#98QBKiller Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Theres not enough violence in hip hop. We need more. I'll make it rain on these ho's. I second that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooka Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Any discussion of this sort, and I always think of the South Park where they abolish religion and then in the future there's a war between the United Atheist Alliance, The Unified Atheist League and the Allied Atheist Allegiance. (The AAA are sea otters) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WVUforREDSKINS Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 I think that the influence that hip hop has on white middle class America isn't great when kids will take it to another level. Which I have seen many people start to do. For instance try and be a thug, sell drugs, etc. Hip Hop has also done quite a bit to bring White America and Black America closer together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ_Skins Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 I think that the influence that hip hop has on white middle class America isn't great when kids will take it to another level. Which I have seen many people start to do. For instance try and be a thug, sell drugs, etc. Hip Hop has also done quite a bit to bring White America and Black America closer together. Yeah, let's come together around crime and abuse of women. What a great advancement. There is already something that should (and does) bring white and black people together--it's called Christianity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderMustGo Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 You're asking a difficult question. To answer it, I'd have to tell you to read some Nietzsche. In several of his books, including Beyond Good and Evil, Nietzsche developed a theory about Master morality and Slave Morality. He was not talking about "slavery" as we in America think about, and there was no racial context to what he was saying. Nietzsche said that the dominant and powerful in society develop what he calls "master morality." They define what is good and bad. Those that are weak or oppressed in society resent the masters and reject the masters' morality. In defiance, they reject the things valued by the masters as good and instead label them as evil. Similarly, the things which are bad under the master's morality, is often considered to be good by the slave's morality. And ultimately, Nietzsche thought that slave morality so undermines master morality that master morality is destroyed. Now apply that today. What are the things promoted in "hip-hop" culture? Misogyny, promiscuity, drug use, lack of parental responsibility, dog-fighting, gangs, "thug life," etc. What do these things have in common? These are all things which are deemed "bad" by the morality of the powerful. What are the things which are rejected by hip-hop culture? Education, monogamy, conformance with the laws, being articulate in the way you talk, being able to write well, dressing professionally, respect for the laws and police, etc. These are all things which are deemed "good" by the morality of the powerful. So really, what hiphop culture is doing is proving Nietzsche's point about slave morality undermining master morality and ultimately destroying it by valuing things that master morality abhors and rejecting that which applauds master morality. Nietzsche argued that was inevitable, and to the extent that is true, I don't know how to "blame" hiphop culture. It disgusts me because I feel the disrespect for the law and glorified ignorant behavior is revolting and harmful to society, but it is probably inevitable, and if it wasn't "hip hop" it would have manifested itself in some other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacase Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 I'm sorry but are you telling me it's a problem that I object with rap lyrics? It's not a problem because it's mainstream, it's a problem because the message is disgusting. In fact I'd argue that you have it ass backwards. If Jesse Jackson went on stage and talked about how ho's don't matter and it's all about money, even if you have to hook your entire community on drugs to get it he'd lose his hearing from all the insults hurled in his direction. but.. if you add a beat to it and have someone deliver the same message to music, well now suddenly it's just a reflection of society. First using Jesse Jackson is stupid because he is supposedly associated with christain morals and fights for minority and women's rights, so by him saying that it would alienate him from the crowd that associates with him. Look, rap started off as people on the block talking about their problems. Rap did not cause their problems. It was a story about things in their life they are going through and have seen and experienced. It then turned into a non violent way to represent your block when they "battled". That is why the "freestyle" is held in such high reguard. Then America got hooked into hip hop, meaning white suburbian kids started begging their parents to get it. All of a sudden there is a lot of money in it. Now these guys are getting huge paychecks. They start spending their money on material stuff and then the crazy stories start coming out. Other rappers imitate those stories and try to make them crazier. More money comes in and now people are trying live the lifestyle that is in the video. But when all is said and done those guys live nothing like what is in the video. that has been teh evolution of hip hop. It went from people talking about their problems and expereinces to bein commercialized and being encouraged by the record companies to talk about that stuff since it sells. Remember, suburban white kids are the ones who purchase most of the rap music. Now to address the violence. I heard a good quote last night on Charm School that applies here. "You can put lipstick on a pig but you can't make it a lady" Basically most of these guys come off the street. They soldl drugs, carried guns, maybe even shot people and committed murder. Some are felons. They lived the street life before they became rappers, not because they were rappers. Now they are getting paid millions of dollars to rap because they have charisma and a good delivery. (notice I don't say they are good rappers.) Just becuase you give someone money you can't turn them into a refined member of society, espeically when they maintain all of their street ties. Which by the way is essential for them to maintain their credibility. I am sure the record companies have no problems with this. So, to find a good "rapper" you have to look past the mainstream. The people in the mainstream and nothing but thugs turned entertainers. You have to look to some people who are talking about a message. Look at some of the older Nas stuff, Mos Def, Tribe Called Quest, etc. They had a message in their music. Jay-Z was always a commercial rapper he was never one to be known for delivering a message like several other have. He could have if he wanted to, but he just wanted to make money. For those that are complaining about these guys as role models I got a message for you. Don't blame the rappers, blame yourself. You are the ones allowing your children to look at them as role models. The role models that your sons or daughters need are you and if you are not fulfilling that role then you are doing something wrong and need to fix it. Entertainers only have power over your children unless you allow them to by not doing you damn job. Be a parent, not someone who has kids. Yeah, its not an easy job, but it is one you chose so stop complaining about all the negative influence on your kids be a parent. The problems in the black community have been there for a very long time. Most of it has to do with the destruction of the family unit. The more stability in the family the better the chances are of the child suceeding. Rap did not cause these problems it has merely exposed them to the rest of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyJoe92 Posted July 2, 2007 Author Share Posted July 2, 2007 I'm sorry but are you telling me it's a problem that I object with rap lyrics? It's not a problem because it's mainstream, it's a problem because the message is disgusting. In fact I'd argue that you have it ass backwards. If Jesse Jackson went on stage and talked about how ho's don't matter and it's all about money, even if you have to hook your entire community on drugs to get it he'd lose his hearing from all the insults hurled in his direction. but.. if you add a beat to it and have someone deliver the same message to music, well now suddenly it's just a reflection of society. U can not like rap music and i can respect that 100% but Jesse Jackson and Rap is like comparing apples and Oranges. you might as well compare communism with the president. im not saying you do but, a person will pick out key words from a song and not listen to the full meaning, then pass it on to some one and change the meaning some more. (its like that game when you tell a secret and see if the right story get back to you" If we want to go deeper than that. all of the rap music that is sold has a "parental Advisory" on it meaning no1 under i think its 16 (im not 100% sure) should buy it with out an adult. now they can go to walmart and by the DC with all that bad stuff out but no1 wants to do that. the artist and companies come out of their pockets for that. they dont even have to put in in stores like that but they do. these ppl have taken all proper steps to make their music legal. so you cant knock them. if a under age kid has this music they got it illegally and thats not the companies or artist problem. downloading music is not legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ_Skins Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 You're asking a difficult question. To answer it, I'd have to tell you to read some Nietzsche. In several of his books, including Beyond Good and Evil, Nietzsche developed a theory about Master morality and Slave Morality. He was not talking about "slavery" as we in America think about, and there was no racial context to what he was saying. Nietzsche said that the dominant and powerful in society develop what he calls "master morality." They define what is good and bad. Those that are weak or oppressed in society resent the masters and reject the masters' morality. In defiance, they reject the things valued by the masters as good and instead label them as evil. Similarly, the things which are bad under the master's morality, is often considered to be good by the slave's morality. And ultimately, Nietzsche thought that slave morality so undermines master morality that master morality is destroyed. Now apply that today. What are the things promoted in "hip-hop" culture? Misogyny, promiscuity, drug use, lack of parental responsibility, dog-fighting, gangs, "thug life," etc. What do these things have in common? These are all things which are deemed "bad" by the morality of the powerful. What are the things which are rejected by hip-hop culture? Education, monogamy, conformance with the laws, being articulate in the way you talk, being able to write well, dressing professionally, respect for the laws and police, etc. These are all things which are deemed "good" by the morality of the powerful. So really, what hiphop culture is doing is proving Nietzsche's point about slave morality undermining master morality and ultimately destroying it by valuing things that master morality abhors and rejecting that which applauds master morality. Nietzsche argued that was inevitable, and to the extent that is true, I don't know how to "blame" hiphop culture. It disgusts me because I feel the disrespect for the law and glorified ignorant behavior is revolting and harmful to society, but it is probably inevitable, and if it wasn't "hip hop" it would have manifested itself in some other way. Nietzsche was a lunatic. Nevertheless, there is a valid point in there. Hip hop perpetuates the mentality of slavery in the black community. Instead of encouraging people to embrace freedom and improve their lives, it says "this is what it means to be black" and anyone who goes against the pathologies it promotes is a "race traitor". That's why I made the comparison to the KKK. Anybody who supports rap is supporting keeping the black community in a second class, self-destructive state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WVUforREDSKINS Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Yeah, let's come together around crime and abuse of women. What a great advancement.There is already something that should (and does) bring white and black people together--it's called Christianity. I am willing to bet that you know nothing about hip-hop. Also, keep religon out of this thread...Just where in the heck did that come from anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyJoe92 Posted July 2, 2007 Author Share Posted July 2, 2007 I am not sure if I blame hip-hop, rap - whatever - for issues, but I do think a certain attitude that comes with hip hop has been a negative influence. More so, the "thug life" attitude has spread and has become more cultural popular, which is a negative, IMO. it discourages education, encourages poor attitudes towards women, promotes violence, narcissism, and materialism, and basically doesn't encourage many of the attriibutes that I believe most societies find to be a positive. In fact, some elements of this culture I consider to be "garbage" culture: Not because it is "urban" culture, but it is a "throwaway" culture.Futhermore, I do find some of the artists, of this genre, at fault for the spread of this culture which I consider to be less-than-desirable. I am sure this would be considered a non-PC opinion, but I really could care less. Also, ou can't even compare music, such as metal, in the same realm, since metal generally isn't associated with some of the more negative attributes I mentioned earlier. hip hop does not Promote violence it talks about true stories hats really going on in the would today. you got to listen to everything and not pick out Key words. Im going to guess that you dont really listen to Hip Hop music because you dont care for it. meaning you dont take the time to study whats being said. you may not under stand many of the terms being used. you cant knock something if dont listen to it. Now again there is always a few bad apples but you cant dislike an entire genre of music because of that that would set you back 400 years. metal music is know for suicide and rebellion right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 I blame Johnny Cash. Hell, he didn't even have a very good reason to shoot that dude in Reno. Then he goes home, does a shot of cocaine, and shoots his woman. Guy had issues. Johnny Cash is my role model. I really look up to him. You just don't understand Johnny's music. It's society's fault not Johnny's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyJoe92 Posted July 2, 2007 Author Share Posted July 2, 2007 Why are they like that only behind closed doors? because the media wont open the door for evey1 to see it can be behind close doors or in front it don't matter the truth will be twisted by the Media or they will do or say something just to get a reaction. we can use princess Diana for an example. She had to cut down on her charities and find other ways to give money because of the media trying to mess her life up. there is a list that goes on and on that can show what these ppl have done but you dont want to see that because its bad ratings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyJoe92 Posted July 2, 2007 Author Share Posted July 2, 2007 Personally, I blame Mark Brunell... hahahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderMustGo Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Nietzsche was a lunatic. If by lunatic you meant one of the most brilliant and insightful men of all time, and the greatest mind of the 19th century, then yeah. The guy was a full professor of phiology at the University of Basel by age 24. He pretty much invented depth psychology. There was a time back in the 1910s-40s when Nietzsche was lambasted due to the Nazi's usurpation of some of his ideas, but since Kaufman's translations of him after WWII, pretty much everyone concedes he is a brilliant philosopher. To call him a lunatic is silly. He did, late in life, have his mental health effected by syphllis that killed him. But none of his writings were from that period. The current rap/hiphop culture is proof positive of Nietzsche's theories on on master/slave morality. And he wrote this stuff in 1870. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headexplode Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Johnny Cash is my role model. I really look up to him. You just don't understand Johnny's music. It's society's fault not Johnny's. Pretty sure he was being sarcastic. I could be wrong, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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