ExtremeSkins Fan View: Humble Beginning

[SkinsFTW]

And I had such high hopes for this thread...

Naa man, you are right. They do have a lot to prove this year. I just get tired of the excuses. The Eagles don't make excuses when they have 1/2 their team out and they lose in the NFCCG. We shouldn't hear that we went 5-11 because Springs and Griffen were hurt for 1/2 the year. No depth is (or was) part of the problem.

Backups need to come in with something to prove and every once in a while make people think the starter should sit when he gets back. We just saw a bunch of lost guys on defense last year and an offense that didn't seem to know what it wanted to do 1/2 the time.

[sackfumble]

Just shut up and play.Everything said is mostly lip service anyway-from coaches and players.Other than Cooley(he's a funny kid-genuinely entertaining) who really cares what these guys have to say.

The Redskins have three main issues in 07 IMO given reasonable health:

1 -Team chemistry.

It sucked in 2006.Soap opera like.

2 -Solid contribution from a wide receiver not named Santana Moss.

Need it to have a top ten offense.The #2, and 3 receivers have to get involved.

3 A Gregg Williams defense that forces turnovers.

Even his best defensive units (Bills,Titans,Skins) didn't come up with the football.I don't think any of them were higher than middle of the pack in forcing turnovers.

I think team chemistry has to be better than last season.It can't be any worse.

I'm hopeful regarding production from another wide receiver(likely Brandon Lloyd)

Gregg Williams having a ball hawking defense is a stretch.It's never really happened in his career as a head coach or coordinator.Not very hopeful here.Maybe some of his new talent(Landry,Rocky) can make things happen in spite of him.

[Tastes Like Chicken]

Just shut up and play.Everything said is mostly lip service anyway-from coaches and players.Other than Cooley(he's a funny kid-genuinely entertaining) who really cares what these guys have to say.

The Redskins have three main issues in 07 IMO given reasonable health:

1 -Team chemistry.

It sucked in 2006.Soap opera like.

2 -Solid contribution from a wide receiver not named Santana Moss.

Need it to have a top ten offense.The #2, and 3 receivers have to get involved.

3 A Gregg Williams defense that forces turnovers.

Even his best defensive units (Bills,Titans,Skins) didn't come up with the football.I don't think any of them were higher than middle of the pack in forcing turnovers.

I think team chemistry has to be better than last season.It can't be any worse.

I'm hopeful regarding production from another wide receiver(likely Brandon Lloyd)

Gregg Williams having a ball hawking defense is a stretch.It's never really happened in his career as a head coach or coordinator.Not very hopeful here.Maybe some of his new talent(Landry,Rocky) can make things happen in spite of him.

I agree with most of what you're saying, but IMO the most important issue was left out. That's the success of Jason Campbell. How his success goes, so will go the fate of the Skins in '07. That ties in to your #2 issue of the 2nd/3rd receivers- he has to get them the ball, and they have to make plays.

[SonnyJ]

I just get tired of the excuses. The Eagles don't make excuses when they have 1/2 their team out and they lose in the NFCCG.

I don't recall the Eagles EVER making the NFCCG while having a rash of injuries. Sounds like another case of the grass always being greener elsewhere. People seem to forget the 2005 season where the Eagles went 6-10 and were just awful in some of those games. And the excuses were flying all over the place for that season - injuries, TO, etc. I think that season definitively showed that the Eagles' draft prowess and vaunted depth were vastly overrated.

People just don't seem to realize the fine edge between winning and losing. It's a step here, a dropped pass or pick there, throw in a blown assignment or two during the course of a game, confidence starts waning and the losses pile up. Say Brunell gets that ball to Moss a beat quicker at the end of the first half against the Vikings, giving Moss the chance to fully control before getting blasted by Sharper. A shot of confidence and a larger cushion at halftime. Also, say Priouleau doesn't blow his knee out on the first step of the season. I could easily envision that game going completely differently, resulting in a solid 'Skins victory. Maybe that boosts the team's confidence enough to get them some other victories. I'm not talking playoffs, but maybe 8-8. A lot of maybes in there, but certainly not a far-fetched scenario.

What we saw last year was a combination of questionable personnel decisions (CB depth), injuries, hesitation w/in a new offense, and some bad bounces. Something being off in one part of the team can have a ripple effect everywhere else. Just about every team with a poor record can cite the same issues.

The good part is that, if the team has sufficiently addressed these issues, they can easily get on the other side of that fine line. Especially if Campbell can be an elite QB, in which case a lot of issues will take care of themselves :thumbsup:.

[Aston]

Hardly. Whenever the going gets tough.... you harp back on the old days and anecdotes... as if they're somehow relevant to today.

And you've been waiting.... and waiting.... and waiting.... and waiting.

From your perspective.... being honest with yourself entails not criticizing Joe Gibbs and waiting indefinitely for the Skins to win. And it wouldn't matter to you if he only had 1 winning season in 10... but in that 1 season.. you'd say "I told you so" as if it gave you any credibility.

But hey, if you think all my huffing and puffing has contributed to the 5-11 and 6-10 records in the last 3 years... well then, I've been selling myself short all these years.

Bottom line.... you call it huffing and puffing and being angry... at the end of the day... one of us has fairly evaluated what he's seen.... and the other is already in a rocking chair recalling better times... because he can't deal with what's in front of him. What else is new.

Isn't this exactly what you're doing, except instead of putting a positive spin on it, you decide to make in rain? JJ's article is basically saying that this year, the approach is more serious, more focused, and more accountable. Yes, last year was terrible. And hearing things like guys aren't putting in time in the film room is very disheartening. Hearing Griffin suggest that perhaps they weren't motivated is troubling indeed. But these issues are in the past, these were some (certainly not all) of our issues last year. So rather be encouraged that JJ reports that the approach this year has drastically improved, it's actually you that chooses to sit in a rocking chair and get all Lewis Black about how we're the mud-sucking souls of the football universe.

I mean.... we had a team going into the 2006 season resting on the laurels of making the playoffs on the final day of the regular season after not making the playoffs for 5 years. And that little bit of success went to their heads.... and that's the same nucleus that we're going into 2007 with. ... I wanna see some change.

Again, the whole point of JimmiJoe's piece was that this mentality has changed. Success DID get the players heads after 2005, and yes, this was inexcusable. But telling a player "Hey, don't let success go to your head, young man! That's bad!" isn't quite as effective as enduring the national embarrassment of a 5-11 season, which by the way, featured 6 losses of 4 points or less. Can you at least admit that our approach this season is better than last year? Do you think, on some level, last season was a lesson everybody needed to learn before we could establish ourselves as a consistent winner? And one other thing, Jason Campbell himself kind of redefines that nucleus you're talking about, don't you think?

You say my thoughts of rooting out the problem reeks of McCarthyism.... why do you think Gibbs expelled Coles and Arrington? How do you miss that? Really? How many times have you heard Gibbs in the past 2 years say he'll let anybody go who doesn't want to be a Redskin? Why do you think Coles asked? You don't remember Randy Thomas' interview shortly afterwards saying that there were some guys that needed to move on and that the team was cleaning house?

Coles wanted to leave. So he left. I'm convinced Arrington wanted to leave to. He wanted to start. Now, I'll admit he was a bit of a cancer, so was Coles. But they're gone, so who do we currently roster on this team who wants to go? Springs? Also, I'm just a little unclear whether you think the problems from 2006 were due to lack of motivation (a problem of Gibbs and/or the whole team), or the Cancer Theory (a problem with one particular guy).

Should I just assume that most ExtremeSkins fans don't do much reading of articles and interviews on Washington Post, Washington Times and other national outlets?

Cause really.... how can you be so confident about the knowledge of this team unless you really put forth an effort.

Yes, I do read a lot of the articles. But if I've learned ANYTHING during my time here at ES, it's that these national outlets you speak of are often so far from the truth they might as well sell their crap to World Weekly News. That and the fact that it's normally the same stuff repeated over and over and over and over again, so where's the news?

Like many others, I have neither the time nor the patience to sift through hundreds of articles to find the real juicy facts about what's really going on, which is why I come here. This does not make me any less of a fan, just a more efficient one.

[SKINS FAN #56]

I like what Moss is saying, thats the way the team should think each year. Try your best, and things will fall into place.

[SkinsFTW]

I'm still just waiting for Gibbs to pull a 12-4 or 13-3 out of a team that everybody says is at best average. Thats when we know he is back.

5-11 for a supposedly Playoff bound, at worst, team isn't reassuring.

In the 80's, year after year, we supposedly were an 8-8 team, yet he usually pulled at worst 10-6 out of it and even did 12-4 to 14-2 3-4 times.

Until last year I was willing to make that prediction, not any more.

[Die Hard]

Man you are one PISSED off dude. When did you start to hate the Skins? Skins are going to make it happen this year. I don't disagree with Gibbs having made a lot of mistakes. But I believe in him to get it right in the end.

Question: Are you hoping the Skins will have a great year? Or have you stopped supporting them until Gibbs leaves?

Dude... I spent 5 years of my life building ExtremeSkins.... and I have a Redskins tattoo. You'll hardly find a bigger Redskins fan than me.

With that being said.... I'm also a football fan. I don't mind being objective.... and criticizing my team when it's warranted. No one is going to confuse me with a homer or eternal optimism.

When I see problems.... I like to see them fixed. But that's just me.

I also give praise when it's warranted. But chances are... you don't know me or you haven't read many of my threads over the last 7 years.... so it's easy to typecast me because you read a single thread.

I said Ladell Betts could be a starter in the NFL during his rookie year.... and the only thing holding him back was his injury problems... which was ironic because he got through 4 years at Iowa without injury (which is part of the reason why GIbbs drafted him... because he was going after players who would play through pain). Not too many people agreed with me.... but I think you saw last season I was right.

So when it's warranted.... I give praise.

And when multiple players on the team mention that guys weren't going the extra mile last year... especially considering they were supposed to have Super Bowl aspirations.... um yeah.. I have a problem with it.

Just like I'd have a problem with my own kids (I coach youth football) if they didn't give me 100%.

Some of you guys want to slough it off as player-speak.... but I don't. The good players put in like Campbell has done this offseason. That's why he's earned his praise. And I have a problem with players who won't put forth that same effort.

Sorry, but there's been enough losing in this organization. The only players I want on this team are guys who share the same commitment and passion as Jason Campbell. That's the only way this thing is going to turn around.

[Die Hard]

Die Hard, you need to bust out the whopping stick more often

Remember the last time you did it?

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132006&page=1

Of course we all know what happened that following Sunday. We threw deep, we threw short and got YACs, we ran the Cowboys out of DC and got in the drivers seat for a playoff spot

Funny, I seem to recall Clinton Portis and our defense carrying us to the playoffs those last 5 games... including the victory. I'm pretty sure the defense was actually responsible for that victory in Tampa too... and the offense was the reason why we lost to the Seahawks.

And coincidentally, Mark Brunell was replaced mid-way through the following season. Go figure.

Brunell has been replaced mid-way through 2 of the 3 seasons he's been here.... and he wouldn't have even gotten a chance in that 2nd season if Ramsey didn't get hurt. Go figure.

But hey, I'm wrong.... Brunell had that great game against Dallas. We'll just forget everything else.

Come on... you have to come up with better crap than that.

[Die Hard]

Yes, I do read a lot of the articles. But if I've learned ANYTHING during my time here at ES, it's that these national outlets you speak of are often so far from the truth they might as well sell their crap to World Weekly News. That and the fact that it's normally the same stuff repeated over and over and over and over again, so where's the news?

There's news... and then there's editorials. I'm not talking about what Pasquarelli is saying... or John Clayton... Dr. Z.

I'm talking about direct quotes from Washington Redskins players.... and you can't get any better insider information than the guys who actually play. The rest is trivial as far as I'm concerned.

I don't read the editorials... I read the quotes from the players and coaches.

Of course, I'm sure when you read the article last year about the safeties/corners practicing and studying film separately... you thought.... "hey, that's just fluff that's repeated over and over and over again.... where's the real news?"

[Die Hard]

Man I love it when Tony has time to post & be himself. It just seems to liven the whole board up.

:munchout:

Ironically, I don't have time... I've had 8 final exams in the last 8 days (final 2 today). Then I'm going to take a very long nap.

[Dance04]

I'm waiting for Joe Gibbs to resign. Next coach please.

As much as you will get flamed, I think there are many people out there who feel like this. Too many people blindly say "In Gibbs I trust" and don't see everything.

[Area51]

As much as you will get flamed, I think there are many people out there who feel like this. Too many people blindly say "In Gibbs I trust" and don't see everything.

great sig.

[Dance04]

great sig.

thank you ver much

[Skins-in-CT]

Nice job on the article. It was a good read.

I have to agree with the distraction theory. In retrospect it seems that his mind was on other things besides coaching, hence the addition of Al Saunders. I also think it was because he was trying too hard to be team president instead of playing to his strengths, as someone else said. I doubt it was JGR (NASCAR) -Joe Gibbs' son took over as team president in '97 and has been running the racing team ever since.

Don't forget, the NFL that Joe Gibbs left in '92 is not the same one that he came back to in '04. A lot has changed and he still wanted to ply the same mentality and methods that he did a decade before.

Wait and see what the season brings this year before completely losing all hope. Gibb's second tenure hasn't been all rosy, but the past few years haven't been a complete waste either. He brought them to the playoffs in 2005, which has been said 100 times, but they were still in - made it to the second round too. If after this season the team is still underachieving then I think it will be time to move on, but there isn't going to be a changing of the guard this season so we might as well wait and see.

Not that it matters, but Gibbs didn't draft Betts. He was drafted in '02. but Gibbs WAS smart enought to keep him around and he will be a serious threat this year.

[DirtySkin21]

i dont care about names or any of that bull****, i just want whoever gives us the best chance to win. I will always respect joe gibbs for what he has don, and will never bash him but i think, just as i think joe gibbs will not stick arond if he feels like he can't give us the best chance to win. When that time comes, i'll be ready, if not, i'll be here anyways.

[westcoastredskin]

i hate to go off topic here but i had too..any one see transformers yet?..well skins fans yo are in for a suprise. anthony anderson sports a clinton portis jersey for a good while in the movie...i luved it and all my friends gave me crap for it but who cares.

we made teh summer block buster..and it is a sick ass movie...once again sorry but i can t start threads..banned..lol....

[TK]

i hate to go off topic here but i had too..once again sorry but i can t start threads..banned..lol....

It's a good thing that you can't start threads. I say this because there have been several threads about the Skins jersey in the new Transformers movie. Had you been able to start a thread with what you just stated, you've have still been NNT'd. As it stands right now, you're just spamming. Considering these two offense along with the fact that you've exceeded the allowable size for a signature, perhaps now would be a great time for you to review the Forum Rules as you clearly have no understanding of them.

[SkinsManNJ]

I don't recall the Eagles EVER making the NFCCG while having a rash of injuries. Sounds like another case of the grass always being greener elsewhere. People seem to forget the 2005 season where the Eagles went 6-10 and were just awful in some of those games. And the excuses were flying all over the place for that season - injuries, TO, etc. I think that season definitively showed that the Eagles' draft prowess and vaunted depth were vastly overrated.

People just don't seem to realize the fine edge between winning and losing. It's a step here, a dropped pass or pick there, throw in a blown assignment or two during the course of a game, confidence starts waning and the losses pile up. Say Brunell gets that ball to Moss a beat quicker at the end of the first half against the Vikings, giving Moss the chance to fully control before getting blasted by Sharper. A shot of confidence and a larger cushion at halftime. Also, say Priouleau doesn't blow his knee out on the first step of the season. I could easily envision that game going completely differently, resulting in a solid 'Skins victory. Maybe that boosts the team's confidence enough to get them some other victories. I'm not talking playoffs, but maybe 8-8. A lot of maybes in there, but certainly not a far-fetched scenario.

What we saw last year was a combination of questionable personnel decisions (CB depth), injuries, hesitation w/in a new offense, and some bad bounces. Something being off in one part of the team can have a ripple effect everywhere else. Just about every team with a poor record can cite the same issues.

The good part is that, if the team has sufficiently addressed these issues, they can easily get on the other side of that fine line. Especially if Campbell can be an elite QB, in which case a lot of issues will take care of themselves :thumbsup:.

I would definitely agree with you about the Eagles of '05. They went from I believe 13-3 (6-0 in the division) to 6-10 and (0-6 in the division). They had the most infamous scapegoat of all time T.O. and they didnt have all the injuries that we had last year. But we arent allowed to use the injuries as part of the reason for our temaltuous season last year. Give me a break.

I said Ladell Betts could be a starter in the NFL during his rookie year.... and the only thing holding him back was his injury problems... which was ironic because he got through 4 years at Iowa without injury (which is part of the reason why GIbbs drafted him... because he was going after players who would play through pain). Not too many people agreed with me.... but I think you saw last season I was right.

I could have sworn that Spurrier drafted Ladell not Gibbs. I sure it was Spurrier because I remember Ladell reminded me of Stephen Davis and I liked him ever since. That was the same year we let Davis leave for Carolina. Not to be nitpicky but just thought I'd point that out.

[westcoastredskin]

bite me tk..............lol..wil do...

It's a good thing that you can't start threads. I say this because there have been several threads about the Skins jersey in the new Transformers movie. Had you been able to start a thread with what you just stated, you've have still been NNT'd. As it stands right now, you're just spamming. Considering these two offense along with the fact that you've exceeded the allowable size for a signature, perhaps now would be a great time for you to review the Forum Rules as you clearly have no understanding of them.

[joeknows]

I'm waiting for Joe Gibbs to resign. Next coach please.

YOUR FAN CARD SHOULD BE REVOKED IMMEDIATELY!!!

[Die Hard]

YOUR FAN CARD SHOULD BE REVOKED IMMEDIATELY!!!

All in caps.... you must be serious "Fan card" huh? Brilliant.

[Monkart]

All in caps.... you must be serious "Fan card" huh? Brilliant.

Hey, would that be an authentic "Die Hard" autographed "Fan Card" ????

Hell that could be worth.......................?

just joking.

[ThomasRoane]

Great article!

[skinsscout87]

The 07 Defense is going to be nasty:

On passing downs:

- Andre Carter at one end

- Marcus Washington at the other end

with that speed on the ends and the revamped secodary we will get the pass rush and be able to set up all the blitz packages.

This defense will be the best yet of the Williams era

12-4 for real