ExtremeSkins Fan View: Humble Beginning

[JimmiJo]

Ok gang, have at it...

http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=6194

Humble Beginning

By John Pappas

ExtremeSkins.com

You won't hear much boasting going on at Redskins Park these days.

You'll find it hard to get predictions from players on how the offense will be in 2007 or where the defense will rank. No one will tell you how much talent the team has or how the collection of storied coaches is going to lead the team to glory.

And the word "super" is hardly ever uttered in the same sentence as "bowl."

There was certainly a different vibe around the team this time last year.

The Redskins were coming off a return to the playoffs in 2005. During free agency they had traded draft picks and sacrificed cap room to get the players they said would have made the difference in 2005. They also added offensive guru Al Saunders to the coaching staff.

During the 2006 mini-camp and later training camp, players and coaches exuded confidence in the future.

The players considered aloud the possibilities with big-name free agents and a new offensive mastermind.

The coaches spoke with an air of expectation for the new season.

The starting quarterback even said that anything less than a Lombardi Trophy would be a disappointment.

But then the exhibition season started, and then the season, and things did not go well. It seemed that almost as soon as it began, the season came undone and the team finished a woeful 5-11.

This year, the Redskins appear to have had enough of the memory of a lost season, the second guessing that comes with it, and the constant questions on how the team will fare in 2007.

Rather what you hear from them is a quiet commitment to improve.

"Of course we're gonna say that we hope to be better," Santana Moss said. "I'm not saying that we are because you know, we haven't done anything yet. I think last year we got caught up in talking about what we were going to do, thinking about what we did the previous year. Now, we're going to just let things happen. I think that's the best way to do it this year."

Click on link to read entire article...

[NewCliche21]

Man I love Santana.

Oh, and great work!

[flexxskins]

Great read. :applause:

By John Pappas

ExtremeSkins.com

June 26, 2007

"Of course we're gonna say that we hope to be better," Santana Moss said. "I'm not saying that we are because you know, we haven't done anything yet. I think last year we got caught up in talking about what we were going to do, thinking about what we did the previous year. Now, we're going to just let things happen.

I got the feeling after reading Moss' quote, that there were just too many players waiting for someone else to make a big play. Probably just me. :paranoid:

[AllAboutSkins08]

great article. i'm glad that the players are just putting in the work and gonna let their play on the field do the talking. that's the way it should be.

[Monkart]

Good Read, I think Lloyd staying quit is a good thing, hopefully he's directing that focus to the field. It seems he's just being quit though, he doesn't seem down on the team. Hell ! if he has a good season he could be come back player of the year. :whoknows:

[Die Hard]

I got the feeling after reading Moss' quote, that there were just too many players waiting for someone else to make a big play. Probably just me. :paranoid:

The more crap I read from last year.... the more I get annoyed with Joe Gibbs.

Coming off a playoff victory in 2005.... Gibbs stressed the importance of starting strong in 2006 and securing home-field advantage for the playoffs.

And we're repeatedly being told now... how players weren't putting time in the film room.... or staying after practice.... or Clinton Portis telling us that newly acquired Mike Rumph would probably be in better shape than any Redskin last offseason.

I mean SERIOUSLY. ****ING SERIOUSLY. Going into Joe Gibbs' 3rd season (2006).... this franchise is still suffering from the Club Med mentality that Norv Turner was infamous for?

I mean.... you guys can clamor that about the possibility of signing new players by responding "he isn't a Gibbs' type of player, so he doesn't belong on our team". But I have to say.... it doesn't seem like Joe Gibbs is any better at evaluating "heart" than anybody else.

After Coles was disposed of... the problem was supposed to be fixed. Then it was Arrington. Both those guys were gone last year.... and the problem still existed.

I'm sorry.... but if Gibbs hasn't gotten these guys to buy into the system into his 3rd season.... I don't have any reason to believe the problem is going to be fixed.

And considering this team didn't make many changes in the offseason.... that means the perpetrators are still on this team right now. Go figure.

It's getting really hard to like this team when they come out and admit things like "we read our own press clippings", "some guys didn't put in the necessary work or film study", etc.

I mean.... we had a team going into the 2006 season resting on the laurels of making the playoffs on the final day of the regular season after not making the playoffs for 5 years. And that little bit of success went to their heads.... and that's the same nucleus that we're going into 2007 with.

What a bunch of losers.

I wanna see some change. Hey Daniels... give us some friggin names and let's start holding these players and coaches accountable.

[JimmiJo]

The more crap I read from last year.... the more I get annoyed with Joe Gibbs.

Coming off a playoff victory in 2005.... Gibbs stressed the importance of starting strong in 2006 and securing home-field advantage for the playoffs.

And we're repeatedly being told now... how players weren't putting time in the film room.... or staying after practice.... or Clinton Portis telling us that newly acquired Mike Rumph would probably be in better shape than any Redskin last offseason.

I mean SERIOUSLY. ****ING SERIOUSLY. Going into Joe Gibbs' 3rd season (2006).... this franchise is still suffering from the Club Med mentality that Norv Turner was infamous for?

I mean.... you guys can clamor that about the possibility of signing new players by responding "he isn't a Gibbs' type of player, so he doesn't belong on our team". But I have to say.... it doesn't seem like Joe Gibbs is any better at evaluating "heart" than anybody else.

After Coles was disposed of... the problem was supposed to be fixed. Then it was Arrington. Both those guys were gone last year.... and the problem still existed.

I'm sorry.... but if Gibbs hasn't gotten these guys to buy into the system into his 3rd season.... I don't have any reason to believe the problem is going to be fixed.

And considering this team didn't make many changes in the offseason.... that means the perpetrators are still on this team right now. Go figure.

It's getting really hard to like this team when they come out and admit things like "we read our own press clippings", "some guys didn't put in the necessary work or film study", etc.

I mean.... we had a team going into the 2006 season resting on the laurels of making the playoffs on the final day of the regular season after not making the playoffs for 5 years. And that little bit of success went to their heads.... and that's the same nucleus that we're going into 2007 with.

What a bunch of losers.

I wanna see some change. Hey Daniels... give us some friggin names and let's start holding these players and coaches accountable.

I don't think the team feels they didn't work hard last year - I think they believe they had some unrealistic expectations that affected their performance. In the comments from the D-line I didn't sense an accusitory tone, but rather a commitment to work even harder to improve.

[SkinsHokieFan]

What a bunch of losers.

I wanna see some change. Hey Daniels... give us some friggin names and let's start holding these players and coaches accountable.

Really? The 98 percent attendance in off season workouts? Brunell working hours each day to master the offense?

Hey, everyone knows a lot went wrong last year. There were mistakes made. But to think that they were too lazy is riddiculous

[JimmiJo]

Man I love Santana.

Oh, and great work!

Great read. :applause:

By John Pappas

ExtremeSkins.com

June 26, 2007

I got the feeling after reading Moss' quote, that there were just too many players waiting for someone else to make a big play. Probably just me. :paranoid:

great article. i'm glad that the players are just putting in the work and gonna let their play on the field do the talking. that's the way it should be.

Good Read, I think Lloyd staying quit is a good thing, hopefully he's directing that focus to the field. It seems he's just being quit though, he doesn't seem down on the team. Hell ! if he has a good season he could be come back player of the year. :whoknows:

Thank you my friends, I do appreciate it.

[redskin-one]

Don't you think it is important that the players know that they made these mistakes and are doing things differently this year?

[McD5]

The more crap I read from last year.... the more I get annoyed with Joe Gibbs.

Coming off a playoff victory in 2005.... Gibbs stressed the importance of starting strong in 2006 and securing home-field advantage for the playoffs.

And we're repeatedly being told now... how players weren't putting time in the film room.... or staying after practice.... or Clinton Portis telling us that newly acquired Mike Rumph would probably be in better shape than any Redskin last offseason.

I mean SERIOUSLY. ****ING SERIOUSLY. Going into Joe Gibbs' 3rd season (2006).... this franchise is still suffering from the Club Med mentality that Norv Turner was infamous for?

You are about to be attacked, but I believe you are right on. People are just afraid to say it.

First, Gibbs is splitting time between football and nascar. I don't believe the nonsense that his son runs everything, and that Gibbs isn't asked to help on an array of nascar related issues regularly. New drivers, new cars, new strategies, big checks to write or not to write--to say that he owns the team, but has nothing to do with it, is as ignorant as saying that Dan Snyder has nothing to do with the Redskins.

And if Gibbs isn't 100% committed to the team.....why should anyone else be? He has already given up the offense and defense to others--to say he is the head coach is absurd. This kind of 50% or 60% effort is a cancer--and the players follow suit.

There is no way on earth that the Redskins could have won 3 Superbowls during the glory days with Gibbs operating in the manner that he is now. He was famous for putting in 70-80 hour weeks--constantly thinking about how he could beat the next opponent.

You get out what you put into it. And he certainly isn't putting in what he used to. Something tells me that Tony Dungy is thinking about football this very second--not about how to court Dale Earnhardt jr. to sign on with his racing team.

It is a huge accomplishment and task to win the Superbowl when you give 200% of yourself to the effort. Anything less than that--and you are kidding yourself from the start.

And if Gibbs is going to put forth that kind of effort--why would the players do anything more?

[Die Hard]

Don't you think it is important that the players know that they made these mistakes and are doing things differently this year?

You didn't even know those things were happening this year... so you have no idea that it's being corrected. Especially since the same culprits are on the team still.

Secondly, no, admitting there was a problem doesn't provide me with any comfort. There shouldn't have been a problem going into last year. Period. If Joe Gibbs allowed that to happen.... and it was happening in his 3rd season even after jettisoning some of the problem players.... doesn't instill a lot of confidence in me that there's any control of the problem.

Coach Gibbs has allowed this to happen. And I'm extremely disappointed.

[Chris Worthy]

So how long will you give the team before you are totally done with them?

[SkinsManNJ]

The more crap I read from last year.... the more I get annoyed with Joe Gibbs.

Coming off a playoff victory in 2005.... Gibbs stressed the importance of starting strong in 2006 and securing home-field advantage for the playoffs.

And we're repeatedly being told now... how players weren't putting time in the film room.... or staying after practice.... or Clinton Portis telling us that newly acquired Mike Rumph would probably be in better shape than any Redskin last offseason.

I mean SERIOUSLY. ****ING SERIOUSLY. Going into Joe Gibbs' 3rd season (2006).... this franchise is still suffering from the Club Med mentality that Norv Turner was infamous for?

I mean.... you guys can clamor that about the possibility of signing new players by responding "he isn't a Gibbs' type of player, so he doesn't belong on our team". But I have to say.... it doesn't seem like Joe Gibbs is any better at evaluating "heart" than anybody else.

After Coles was disposed of... the problem was supposed to be fixed. Then it was Arrington. Both those guys were gone last year.... and the problem still existed.

I'm sorry.... but if Gibbs hasn't gotten these guys to buy into the system into his 3rd season.... I don't have any reason to believe the problem is going to be fixed.

And considering this team didn't make many changes in the offseason.... that means the perpetrators are still on this team right now. Go figure.

It's getting really hard to like this team when they come out and admit things like "we read our own press clippings", "some guys didn't put in the necessary work or film study", etc.

I mean.... we had a team going into the 2006 season resting on the laurels of making the playoffs on the final day of the regular season after not making the playoffs for 5 years. And that little bit of success went to their heads.... and that's the same nucleus that we're going into 2007 with.

What a bunch of losers.

I wanna see some change. Hey Daniels... give us some friggin names and let's start holding these players and coaches accountable.

I think you went a little overboard in your rant but I do understand your anger. Its a shame that they let their heads get big after a playoff season. Last year should be a wake up call not to take things for granted because of a little success.

So expect the coaches and players to have their head on straight this season. I will believe that they will have the right mind set from wk 1 straight through wk 17. As I hope you will to.

Don't you think it is important that the players know that they made these mistakes and are doing things differently this year?

I just think he is to pissed to realize that just yet. Let him calm down and maybe he will see that side of things.

[Die Hard]

So how long will you give the team before you are totally done with them?

I'm waiting for Joe Gibbs to resign. Next coach please.

[JimmiJo]

I'm waiting for Joe Gibbs to resign. Next coach please.

Yikes!

Tony my friend, I'm not buying it. Despite what we say today after 2006, the team DID return to the playoffs in 2005. Last year was about a lot of things, and these include injury, a new offense, an aging QB, and a defense that was downgraded in personnel.

So my thing is - it was not just one thing.

None of us know how this team will be this year, but in terms of attitude I like what I see a lot more than last year (although at the time it seemed terrific).

[ldysknzfn1]

Great article. I like the quietness of this year..and I believe the one "veteran player" who stated during minicamp.."We bought into the hype last year". I believe that's exactly what happened. I'm glad to hear they've learned that lesson. I think there's strength is quiet. Let the season happen..don't build it up. It was a real let down to most of us...unbelievable to me..that our defense could fall that far that quickly. Over the past few years there's been little to be proud of with this team...the defense was my only source of hope most of the time...when the offense couldn't put pts up...at least we had a defense that could do that & more...we didn't even have that cushion last season. But I'll never give up on this team...never..and I know that all of you are with me on this. I may scream, holler and question everything they do...but I'll love them nonetheless. I'm ready for this season. A quiet, smooth strength building in DC...No lip service...only action. Yeah!

HTTR!

[Die Hard]

I like what I see a lot more than last year (although at the time it seemed terrific).

That's my point.

Sorry, the 2005 playoff run where the team had to win the last 5 games out of complete desperation.... and a good run of bad teams (rams, cards, giants missing half their defense, the Cowboys missing half their o-line, and the Eagles missing the entire team).... those aren't the circumstances that good football teams require to be successful. Those were extenuating circumstances... and it showed last season. Heck, it showed in the playoffs that year.

[JimmiJo]

That's my point.

Sorry, the 2005 playoff run where the team had to win the last 5 games out of complete desperation.... and a good run of bad teams (rams, cards, giants missing half their defense, the Cowboys missing half their o-line, and the Eagles missing the entire team).... those aren't the circumstances that good football teams require to be successful. Those were extenuating circumstances... and it showed last season. Heck, it showed in the playoffs that year.

You raise an interesting point - if this team had finished with a .500 record they could have went to the playoffs. That to me is the most frustrating thing about last year.

But in 2005 - winning road games like they did at AZ., St Louis, and Philly is never easy - even with the teams they had that year.

They then beat Tampa in Tampa and had a shot at Seattle.

No, I'm not mad at them for that year. Not even a little bit.

[c4man5282]

great read....one of the best yet

[Tarhog]

I think its a leap to blame last year on effort alone. And if you are going to blame the coaching, blame Gregg Williams. Despite the myth that Saunders coming in crippled the offense, the facts don't support that assertion. The 2006 Redskins scored more points (307) than every Skins team since 2000 (except for the 2005 bunch which racked up 359 points). We had our highest avg. gain per offensive play in 6 years last year, averaging 5.4 yds a play. Unfortunately we had far fewer offensive opportunities last year than usual with total # of plays at a recent low and time of possession way down. The defense on the other hand gave up the most points in 6 years (376 total), allowed a whopping 44% of 3rd down conversions, and allowed 67% of 4th downs to be converted! Our goal line and red zone stats are too ugly to even recite. We gave up more net yards last season than any of the past 6 previous seasons. Our sack (19) and interception (6) totals were the lowest they've been in 6 years. In short, our defense sucked. Thats not news, but I think until you really look at the numbers, you don't realize how bad it sucked. We couldn't stop the run, we couldn't stop the pass, we couldn't force turnovers, and we couldn't get off the effing field. Considering how bad the defense was, our offensive production was almost noteworthy.

I truly believe, had we had even an average defensive performance, we'd have won 4 more games without even blinking an eye.

I'm hopeful on a couple fronts this season (and granted, I'm always hopeful ). First, our offense figures to be significantly better with what's reportedly a much improved JC and a proven RB tandem (if either Betts or Portis goes down, we've demonstrated the other guy can be 'the guy'). Another year in 'the system' can't hurt this offense. I don't think we've seen the best of Randle El or Lloyd in a Skins uniform, and I hope Moss rebounds with a big year if healthy. Secondly, our defense almost has to be better this year. Gregg Williams has been humbled. He's got something to prove. Another year like last year, I think his job's in jeopardy, and he'll without question have pissed away whatever Head Coaching opportunities still exist. He's going to be motivated. And I think our secondary has been greatly improved. I believe Andre Carter has made the quickest move from overrated to underrated in history - I think the man we saw the last 6 games of last year will be the one we see from Day 1 this year, and I also think Marcus Washington is going to have a Pro Bowl year.

I think we rebound with a vengeance this year, and Die Hard, even though its not his nature, will be happy

[McD5]

I'm waiting for Joe Gibbs to resign. Next coach please.

I am surprised that is seems like you are just realizing the turmoil in the organization. It has been pretty clear for all to see over the last few years.

1. Our supposed star running back criticizing Gibbs to the media? This would have NEVER happened in the past.

2. A large part of our defense giving up on Gregg Williams, and his inability to win over the locker room? Again, NEVER would have possibly happened in the past with the old Gibbs.

3. Arch being signed to the richest contract in history for his position, and then being benched for half the season? Never would have happened if Joe was calling the shots.

4. Dale, another coach on the team, getting into verbal arguments with players in the media--and taking cheap shots on our players? This is insanity.

5. Joe not even sitting in on a defensive meeting until after the snitch article was released....halfway through the season?

All hell has broken loose up there. There is no chain of command, and no accountability.

Players now saying that maybe they need to study game film to improve? Are you kidding me?

Why should they try? They get paid either way. If no one else is watching film, or doing what it takes to win...why should they? The fact that they haven't been doing those things over the past three seasons just illustrates how bush league of an organization we have become.

We obviously need to clean house......first step--Gregg Williams. Yeah, he had a lot of injuries last season--so did a lot of other teams. But his "no-attack" defense was the poorest coaching effort I have seen in 30 years here. Even worse than Spurrier. Nobody wants to play for that jackass.

Can anyone honestly pick out two or three defensive players that he coached UP last year? Anyone that he actually made into a better player?

It is certainly easy to find 8-10 players that he made worse last season. Lining Rogers up 10 yards off the ball on 3rd and 3 was ignorant. If your cornerbacks suck--you had sure as hell better get to the quarterback. And his inability to work with Arch--when other coaches have had great success with him--is simply unacceptable.

He needs to be cut quickly.

[JimmiJo]

I think we rebound with a vengeance this year, and Die Hard, even though its not his nature, will be happy

Hey, I'm all about hope and optimism, but let's not get carried away...

[Tarhog]

Hey, I'm all about hope and optimism, but let's not get carried away...

You're paid to get carried away about hope and optimism.

Well....IF you were paid, you'd be getting paid to get carried away about hope and optimism

I'm willing to wager almost anything we're a 10 win team this season.

[SkinsHokieFan]

I think we rebound with a vengeance this year, and Die Hard, even though its not his nature, will be happy

Hey remember Die Hard did say we were going to get killed prior to Dallas December 2005 :laugh:

You never know, this Die Hard post could be another one of those legendary ones we make a joke about

Going back to what went wrong last year, I do honestly think this whole attitude, we were lazy thing is a bit of a cop out. The team simply was not good enough at the most important position-QB

The DB corps was a disaster. Marcus Washington injured. As JJ said, it wasn't just one thing, it was a lot of things

What could go wrong did go wrong. That simple