Pro Football Weekly -- Redskins "incompetent"

[RedskinInExile]

Haha...actually I think Snyder probably mortgaged his entire cash stack and properties to buy/build on Boardwalk and Park Place when playing monopoly like Deion B.Smith, Archuleta and Lloyd only for people to roll right around them when they visit his part of the country. Scott Peoli and Ozzie Newsome probably always owned the railroads and bought every property they landed on. :laugh:

Haha, yeah, I guess Monopoly is a good analogy for this. Boardwalk and Parkplace always sounds like a good idea at the time, but the winners of the game are invariably the ones who have depth along the yellow-red-orange area.

[Hauss]

It's very hard to defend a team that lost 11 games.

[tizzod]

Nobody had the ability to build the building (using your metaphor) except for Snyder. Year in and Year out he's tried the same strategy.

The results have been more bad than good.

I see your point, but apart from wins and losses, the way they handle the cap is masterful. At least in my, admittedly, far less than expert opinion.

[wbar3383]

It's very hard to defend a team that lost 11 games.

Yah but when they WON 10, it was the same ole bs from the fans.

Can you spell hypocrite.

The only fact at all in this convo is that you can never please fans, nor should you try. Trying to please the fans will kill your organization faster than art shell.

[rictus58]

I see your point, but apart from wins and losses, the way they handle the cap is masterful. At least in my, admittedly, far less than expert opinion.

Cap management, I tend to agree. They have managed it very well to get the players they covet. The problem is the players they just "Have to have"

[elkabong82]

The article, like most from this publication, is factually incorrect. A post earlier showed that it is more like 10 million. Another post actually did a very good job of defending our FA acquistions, it is on page 2 of this thread. As for the others of you upset at being labeled "bandwagon fans" for posting negative comments : Get over it!

Criticism is always welcome in my circle, I believe it is a necessity for improvement. However, many of you don't seem to realize there is a fine line between criticism and being an *******. Criticism is constructive, meaning while you are posting something that is negative, it is posted in a way that shows there can be improvement. Criticism is used in a respectful way, and the comment has some significant meaning.

Being an *******, (which alot of you are doing since expectations were so high this year, and we went 5-11) means saying something negative without offering any kind of area of improvement or counterargument. ******* posts are the ones that tout random inults or blame, without any kind of thought-out rationale. These posts include, "I'm giving up my season tickets" or "Gibbs should be fired" or "This team will never win with Snyder" or "This team is on the wrong track and will never be succesful". It's rather difficult to be viewed as an actual fan when you so readily give up hope after one bad season.

Yes, one bad season. There were many before, but that is typical of every team.

Every team has had their stretch of bad seasons. I say only one bad season because this has been a different team since Gibbs has returned. He had trouble adjusting the first year, and then turned us into a winner the next. We implemented too much change this year, and suffered due to that, and injuries. Selling your season tickets, after a bad campaign is definitely the sign of a "bandwagon fan." (It would be different if you moved or can longer afford it).

Nobody wanted to sell their tickets in '05. Saying your team will never succeed because of this or that, is a sign of a bandwagon fan. If the franchise is dissappointing you and you don't want to be a part of it, then sell your tickets and shutup. Blasting the same negative crap day in and day out, does nothing postive for anybody, and ruins the positive attitude and hope some of us still hold for this team. Just because you are having a bad time, doesn't mean you have to drag others down with you. Just like you are probably tired of all the "trade portis" threads, most of us are tired of reading "Fire Snyder, Gibbs Cerrato, we need a GM, this team sucks" threads.

We have a lot of young talent on offense. The defense needs some retooling, but has been number 3 and 9 in the NFL before that. To say this team will never have success is absurd. Our defense will most certainly be better in '07. An easier schedule and ticked off Gibbs ensures that. The offense is very capable, very young, and we have one of the best offensive lines in football. If our defense finishes in the top 15, playoffs are almost certain for '07. I may not be one of the people saying "I told you so" when that happens, but you can bet your ass 90% of the threads then will be just that.

[Brotherz]

See, but this isn't right. They're making it sound like theres a $20 million cap hit this year, but that's just wrong.

Unless these players are released (Which they won't be until they count on the 08 cap), the cap hits for 2007 are as follows:

Archuletta: 2.428

Carter: 2.262

Collins: 1.475

Fauria: 1.095

Randle-El: 1.595

I don't have info on Lloyd's cap #, but I'm sure its around the same range as Randle-El's. For the sake of argument, we'll say that it's 2 million.

For those six guys, it's a cap hit of 10.855 million next year, not 20.

Does the front office need to change the way they do business? Maybe. But this article is factually incorrect.

Well done. :applause:

[Smurf85]

I hope you bandwagon fans do not comeback next year when the redskins are good.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[TotalRecall]

See, but this isn't right. They're making it sound like theres a $20 million cap hit this year, but that's just wrong.

Unless these players are released (Which they won't be until they count on the 08 cap), the cap hits for 2007 are as follows:

Archuletta: 2.428

Carter: 2.262

Collins: 1.475

Fauria: 1.095

Randle-El: 1.595

I don't have info on Lloyd's cap #, but I'm sure its around the same range as Randle-El's. For the sake of argument, we'll say that it's 2 million.

For those six guys, it's a cap hit of 10.855 million next year, not 20.

Does the front office need to change the way they do business? Maybe. But this article is factually incorrect.

You're not counting sign-on bonuses with salary. AA alone is $1.67M sign-on bonus and $5M in salary (depending that it is evenly split $5M for 6 years).

Andre Carter signed a 6-year $30 million contract. He probably got the same exact contract as AA. So that's another $6.67M.

Todd (puke) Collins signed a 2-year $2.5M contract with a $450,000 sign-on bonus. So, that's another $1.475M against the cap in 2007. Collins isn't even worth the league minimum, IMO.

Randle-El signed a 7-year $31M contract (7th year can be voidable) with $11.5M in sign-on bonus. Evenly split, that's $6.07M against the cap in 2007.

Fauria signed a 2-year $2M contract (sign-on bonus??). So, that's at least another $1M.

Brandon Lloyd signed a 6-year $30M contract with a $10M sign-on bonus. So, that's $6.67M against the cap.

= $28.555M to the cap in 2007.

Even if the skins cut these players, they still have to pay the sign-on bonuses against the cap spread out the length of their contracts. $6.778M alone in sign-on bonuses against the cap in 2007.

[pjfootballer]

You miss my point. They're jacking up prices, but not offering a product worthy of the prices. The game-day experience is featuring more in the way of fighting and drunkenness. I heard the story about the guy who accidently left his pocket-knife in his pocket and security missed it. For those prices, they should be able to guarantee my safety on the property and do a better job of policing the stands. The game-day experience also features ushers telling people to sit down and stop cheering. We're paying in the thousands for that?

I feel bad for the season ticket holders. Man, some of the stories about the ushers telling you to sit down and shut up, to the wave and to the horror stories of other fans in the stands, actually makes me glad I spend my money on Sunday Ticket instead of an actual ticket.

It's a shame that these things go on, yet the Redskins own this site, they can hear what the average fan is saying in here, yet they do nothing about it. Shame.

[JoeGibbsThickandthin]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Whats so funny about that. They were bad in 04 and good in 05.

Thats the NFL.

They will face a last place schedule next year and havea high pick to add a impact player.

[XxSpearheadxX]

Between the team's incompetence in the FO and "other" areas - and the advent of HD Television - AKA "God's Technology" - I think its unfair to question someone's loyalty to the B&G, just because they don't want to pay a lot of $ for seats.

I can't affor season tickets, but I live and die with this team.

Plus, Stwasm will still post all the pictures he gets at none game-day events, no? Especially those involving cheerleaders. mmm.

[Smurf85]

Whats so funny about that. They were bad in 04 and good in 05.

Thats the NFL.

They will face a last place schedule next year and havea high pick to add a impact player.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Yeah to bad thats the only pick we have.:doh: So again we will have no depth.:doh:

[JoeGibbsThickandthin]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Yeah to bad thats the only pick we have.:doh: So again we will have no depth.:doh:

:doh: Did we have depth in 05 when they went 10-6?

Of course injuries are key. They need the best defenders to stay healthy like Springs and Washington.

[Brotherz]

I think your all great!! Bandwagon/Non-bandwagon whatever!! I live up in philly and the fact that some of you hurt BECAUSE of the Redskins, Some of your are frustrated BECAUSE of the Redskins, some of you are hopeful BECAUSE of the Redskins, some of you are disgusted BECAUSE of the Redskins makes you all cooler than anyone I know up here!! HAHAHAHAHAHA!! I think it kinda sucks that we fight among ourselves but it happens at every family dinner table and at the end of the day as far as my football family, its every one of you. Its everyone of you who has the jackets, the hats, the pins, the pendants, the buttons, the gadgets, the pens, the dolls, the cards!! Its everyone of you who dies a little when we lose. Its everyone of you who log on here like me avoiding your boss with one hand on the mouse to minimize the window fast enough if he sees you so you can voice your opinion (whatever it is) ABOUT the Redskins! Its you guys who I see across the parking lot at the STink in Philly when we visit the Eagles, its ALL 90k of you at Fedex. Its everyone of you with that cool Redskins license plate. Its those of you who collect the memoribilia. Its all of you. I don't care about the labels or even the name calling. But at the end of the day the guy you are fighting with is with you. He/she is not a cowboys fan, or an eagles fan or a giants fan. They are in our fan family. I get the frustrations of EVERY ONE of you. Because I have them too. I have four brothers and sisters and I fight with them like nobodys business! I call em names. I bust their stones. I ll even insult them from time to time. I can call my brother and idiot every day and by the end of that day nothing has changed. We are brothers. But if someone else calls MY brother an idiot, we got a real problem! I feel that way about this forum and the skins fans everywhere. Do I agree with every one of you? Nope. DO you all agree with me? Not a chance. AM I the same exact fan as everyone else in here? Nope. But as far as Im concerned every single one of you is head and shoulders above the fans of every other team in this league BY FAR!! And from the "bandwagon jumpers", the "nay sayers", "the kool aide drinkers", the "snyder lovers", "the Gibbs faithful" and "The Gibbs/Snyder haters" and everyone in between your all great and your all (like me) part of Redskins Nation and I love it!! HAIL!!! :dallasuck :gaintsuck :eaglesuck

[MRMADD]

Jesus.

Who the **** cares how much money is tied up where.

Its all monopoly money.

EVERY year we get whom we want.

We have NEVER faced cap hell.

We don't have the players we want. We have a handful of high-priced players that we want (or wanted, in the case of Lloyd, Duckett, Archuleta, etc), but because of them, we have no depth. We've traded away our future -- in draft picks, in cap room -- in favor of a roster where almost $70 million of the cap is tied up in 13 players.

This is cap hell. You don't understand it because you read the glowing headlines when the Skins sign ARE or Archuleta, but each of those players is a compromise: should we tie up our cap money in one big-name player, or should we spread it around so we have a deep roster? Look at the median salary on the Skins -- it's much lower than the competition because we concentrate the dollars at the top. We're paying the price for those choices now.

[BleedBNG]

There should be someone with knowledge and authority to dictate the terms under which we get that player. Adam Archuleta? Sure, ok, but not for that contract. Lloyd? Sure, ok, but not for that contract (most troubling was that we didn't even NEED to pay him so much) NOR for a 3rd and 4th round pick. TJ Duckett? Sure, ok, but not for a 3rd rounder.

And if they didn't like it... enjoy your last year in SF, Brandon, and good luck in Chicago, Adam. And to Vinny or any coach on the team I would have said my No.1 commitment is to THIS team, the future of THIS team, and the fans who love THIS team. PERIOD. When so much money is given to new players, it leaves less for others and repeated overspending can create locker room tension. ESPECIALLY when those overspent players under perform the less paid players. Now that we've engaged in a series of overpayments of players, we can expect future free agents to point to our past indifference to the market as evidence that they also deserve large contracts. Before it was older players. Last year it was younger but overspent players. Maybe, just maybe they've got it figured out by now... but who knows.

[Hooper]

We don't have the players we want. We have a handful of high-priced players that we want (or wanted, in the case of Lloyd, Duckett, Archuleta, etc), but because of them, we have no depth. We've traded away our future -- in draft picks, in cap room -- in favor of a roster where almost $70 million of the cap is tied up in 13 players.

This is cap hell. You don't understand it because you read the glowing headlines when the Skins sign ARE or Archuleta, but each of those players is a compromise: should we tie up our cap money in one big-name player, or should we spread it around so we have a deep roster? Look at the median salary on the Skins -- it's much lower than the competition because we concentrate the dollars at the top. We're paying the price for those choices now.

Exactly. We have so much money tied up in just a few players (some who don't even get on the field) that much off the roster is made up of borderline NFL players we're forced to play. In that way, we've been in cap hell for years now.

[Smurf85]

:doh: Did we have depth in 05 when they went 10-6?

Of course injuries are key. They need the best defenders to stay healthy like Springs and Washington.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

He is never healthy and he might not even be on the team next year.

[JoeGibbsThickandthin]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

He is never healthy and he might not even be on the team nest year.

Oh yeah. Good point. I forgot he may be be gone.

[skins0128]

I'm not a bandwagon fan. One look at the cubicle in my office, the clothes in my closet and anyone who knows me will tell you that. But, I have to wonder if it's really worth pumping money into an organization that jacks up prices for mediocre -- at best -- football, cares more about making money than improving the on-field product and can't do more to offer a fun game-day experience. I shouldn't have to worry about flying bottles and people entering the stadium armed with knives.

Never implied that you were a bandwagon fan. I asked if you were re-newing yours because you have talked on the site about not being sure what you were going to do. Just asking if you have decided one way or the other as of yet.

[Heidenreich]

You're not counting sign-on bonuses with salary. AA alone is $1.67M sign-on bonus and $5M in salary (depending that it is evenly split $5M for 6 years).

Andre Carter signed a 6-year $30 million contract. He probably got the same exact contract as AA. So that's another $6.67M.

Todd (puke) Collins signed a 2-year $2.5M contract with a $450,000 sign-on bonus. So, that's another $1.475M against the cap in 2007. Collins isn't even worth the league minimum, IMO.

Randle-El signed a 7-year $31M contract (7th year can be voidable) with $11.5M in sign-on bonus. Evenly split, that's $6.07M against the cap in 2007.

Fauria signed a 2-year $2M contract (sign-on bonus??). So, that's at least another $1M.

Brandon Lloyd signed a 6-year $30M contract with a $10M sign-on bonus. So, that's $6.67M against the cap.

= $28.555M to the cap in 2007.

Even if the skins cut these players, they still have to pay the sign-on bonuses against the cap spread out the length of their contracts. $6.778M alone in sign-on bonuses against the cap in 2007.

I don't claim to be a cap expert, but this site is where I got all my information.

http://redskins.scout.com/3/salary_cap_chart.html

One thing we can all agree on, the Redskins certainly know how to "massage" the cap so to speak.

The numbers aren't evenly split. They're all back loaded. The first three years are always manageable cap numbers, then they get a little crazy.

I showed you the 2007 numbers for this years free agents, take a look at the cap numbers of the class of 2004.

marcus Washington= 6.021 (up from 2.605 in 2006)

Clinton Portis= 7.031 (up from 3.116 in 2006)

Shawn Springs= 7.358 (up from 3.233 in 2006)

Cornelius Griffin= 6.166 (up from 2.551 in 2006)

Mark Brunell= 6.633

Arch, Lloyd, Randle-El, & Carter don't get real bad cap wise until 2009....

If you want to write a cap hell story, the 2004 class should be the topic, not the class of 2006....

[stwasm]

I feel bad for the season ticket holders. Man, some of the stories about the ushers telling you to sit down and shut up, to the wave and to the horror stories of other fans in the stands, actually makes me glad I spend my money on Sunday Ticket instead of an actual ticket.

It's a shame that these things go on, yet the Redskins own this site, they can hear what the average fan is saying in here, yet they do nothing about it. Shame.

And that's the key! I'm a BIG believer in customer service. Give the people paying for your product their money's worth. Right now, the current regime thinks it can get by on the "Redskins" brand without having to worry about losing customers because the waiting list is so long. To a degree, they're right. But, it's definitely a slap in the face to long-time, season-ticket holders being priced out.

There should be someone with knowledge and authority to dictate the terms under which we get that player. Adam Archuleta? Sure, ok, but not for that contract. Lloyd? Sure, ok, but not for that contract (most troubling was that we didn't even NEED to pay him so much) NOR for a 3rd and 4th round pick. TJ Duckett? Sure, ok, but not for a 3rd rounder.

And if they didn't like it... enjoy your last year in SF, Brandon, and good luck in Chicago, Adam. And to Vinny or any coach on the team I would have said my No.1 commitment is to THIS team, the future of THIS team, and the fans who love THIS team. PERIOD. When so much money is given to new players, it leaves less for others and repeated overspending can create locker room tension. ESPECIALLY when those overspent players under perform the less paid players. Now that we've engaged in a series of overpayments of players, we can expect future free agents to point to our past indifference to the market as evidence that they also deserve large contracts. Before it was older players. Last year it was younger but overspent players. Maybe, just maybe they've got it figured out by now... but who knows.

At the prices they charge, you'd think there would be some type of competency in the front office so we can avoid such personnel debacles like Archuleta, Lloyd and Duckett. They want to take short-cuts and not do the research and hard work it takes to put together a competent team.

Never implied that you were a bandwagon fan. I asked if you were re-newing yours because you have talked on the site about not being sure what you were going to do. Just asking if you have decided one way or the other as of yet.

That comment wasn't directed at you. I'm going to wait to see what my invoice looks like. Right now, I'm just saying what the team does in the off-season.

[skins0128]

That comment wasn't directed at you. I'm going to wait to see what my invoice looks like. Right now, I'm just saying what the team does in the off-season.

Interested to see what they do this off-season as well. That invoice is pretty painful when it arrives.

[jrockster21]

Thank you, JRock! I knew you had my back! I'll always love the Redskins, but I think Danny loves my money more than my dedication.

It certainly seems that way recently. How many years has the mini-tron been outdated at FedEx? The Danny keeps jacking up prices, yet we're still stuck with an antiquated screen during games, and can't watch replays as they happen. :doh:

Not to mention beer is $37 an ounce. :yikes: