Wow: THIS guy had an 8-6 record as a starter here?

[ThomasRoane]

I don't get your analogy - if we take LT from San Diego?

OK- let's take Peyton from the Colts - and watch what happens.

Marty has a very successful Chargers team playing to win and airing it out in San Diego - the Chargers are a Top 5 offensive unit with a young QB - in fact - i'd love to have their record right now...

And I'm no psychic but I think the Chargers will go deep into the playoffs and Marty will get over that hump.

Marty has a habit of running his guys into the ground. Your body can only take so many hits. He's riding LT pretty hard now. Let's just see what he has left in the tank when the playoffs come. Another problem with him is that he can't leave well enough alone. When the team gets to the playoffs he meddles with what they were doing and they become ultra-conservative.

Marty ball = run on 1st and 2nd down - throw on 3rd and 7

But the straw that broke the camels back for me? We were playing the sorry Cardinals and behind 10 with not much time left. We're down there at their goal line and Marty runs the ball on 3rd and goal to set up the field goal. A field goal!?!?! For a team that had no shot at the playoffs. That did it for me once and for all there.

[TheLongshot]

Dan Snyder is paying the price for firing Marty. That was the second dumbest decision he has made as the owner of the Redskins. The dumbest decision is hiring Vinny Cerrato.

No, the dumbest decision, in hindsight, was hiring Spurrier. Thing is, other teams would have been willing to have made the same mistake.

I think Snyder was dumb giving Marty that much responsibility in the first place, but that was part of the growing pains as an owner.

Jason

[drowland]

I probably wasn't clear. I'm talking about the Spurrier years.

At least after Shotty, we had something to build on. Spurrier pissed that away.

Jason

My bad. Yeah, Spurrier and his "workin' 9 to 5" approach to coaching didn't work in the NFL.

[nonniey]

Then there was the draft, where Smoot was the only worthwhile player who was picked.

Jason

What is really depressing is that his draft was better than any Snyder or Cerreto conducted prior to Gibbs returning and may have been better than the ones Gibbs had input to as well.

[SkinsFanPA]

Ah, the ol' days where Redskins-related stories were datelined out of Carlisle...

Tell me about it. They need to come back here.

[MattGeorge85]

I still think that the way the Chargers are playing now (which is obviously subject to change) they will knock off the Colts in the playoffs. That will make Marty look quite a bit better with those who clown his lack of playoff production.

It would also be fitting to Manning and the Colts who look for a way to lose in the playoffs and end up finding it.

[TheLongshot]

What is really depressing is that his draft was better than any Snyder or Cerreto conducted prior to Gibbs returning and may have been better than the ones Gibbs had input to as well.

Better than getting Sean Taylor, Chris Cooley and Jim Molinaro?

Jason

[Stew]

No, the dumbest decision, in hindsight, was hiring Spurrier. Thing is, other teams would have been willing to have made the same mistake.

I think Snyder was dumb giving Marty that much responsibility in the first place, but that was part of the growing pains as an owner.

Jason

It seems to me we did the exact same thing to Gibbs/Saunders that we did to Marty/Spurrier. We had Marty and had just made it through year 1 when Spurrier decides to "make himself available " to the NFL. So, out of necessity we go and get Spurrier and get rid of Marty. Call it a "sacrifice". We scrapped any progress made by Marty to bring in Spurrier and hopefully some longevity. It didnt work, and we all know how the Spurrier botch played out. So then we come to how it compares to Gibbs/ Saunders. Well, right after we finishd up year two of Gibbs offense, we go out and snatch up Al Saunders to replace Gibbs offense and any stability the team had on offense. We did it because Saunders became available, and it was an aquisition of necessity I was told, if we dont get him for our offense now, he wont be available later. Gibbs offense was the sacrifical lamb this time. In hindsight, sticking with Ol Marty may have paid off, just like sticking with Gibbs this season MAY have paid off. We will never know.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Marty will never, EVER, get to the Super Bowl...if your goal as a fan is nothing more than a winning season and a playoff loss, Marty's your man because you'll almost never be disappointed. He will stay with your team for 5 years, give your 3-4 winning seasons and 2-3 playoff losses...then retire.

Btw, it wasn't too long ago that Marty had something like a 2-14 record with the Chargers and was well known as being one inch from being fired. I admired the on-the-field results he achieved during his one season here, but I'm not about to wish we had kept him...even with this season's dissapointing results, I'll still take Joe Gibbs over Marty one million times in a row. And if Marty had stayed here, Gibbs would not be right now.

[TotalRecall]

What the heck are you all talking about? Marty didn't acquire George, Snyder did as part of his 2000 spending spree. George was what Marty inherited as the starting QB.

I didn't say Marty got George. I just combined several replies into one post. Jeff George sucked big time and the redskins' organization signed him to a big contract. Marty, on the other hand, was an a-hole and I'm glad he didn't stay to coach another season. He may be a good regular season coach and team builder, but he sucks where it really counts..... in the playoffs. I hated the way Marty coached the redskins. He pretty much tried to keep the game close with a boring offense and don't give-up the big play defense. If he couldn't keep it close, we lost. If we kept it close, it was like a coin flip. BORING!!!! Not the way to coach a football team. Sadly, that's one problem with Gibbs' return to coaching. He's done the exact same thing, but apparently luck is not on his side.

[TheLongshot]

We did it because Saunders became available, and it was an aquisition of necessity I was told, if we dont get him for our offense now, he wont be available later.

Which is what some fans don't understand as to doing it this year. It is all in the timing.

Gibbs offense was the sacrifical lamb this time. In hindsight, sticking with Ol Marty may have paid off, just like sticking with Gibbs this season MAY have paid off. We will never know.

Oh, I think we know about this year. With a better offense or not, the defense still has lots of problems. In hindsight, it so far looks like the right move.

jason

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I probably wasn't clear. I'm talking about the Spurrier years.

At least after Shotty, we had something to build on. Spurrier pissed that away.

Jason

Were we in bad cap shape after Spurrier? I don't remember, but I don't think we we were.

Our roster was rather thin in talent, but - and this is the only time you will ever hear me defend Spurrier - he wasn't choosing the talent. The only talent that he had a real hand in bringing in was the Gator QBs and receivers his first year. And no one from that bunch cost anything.

[IChiefLikeCP26]

Shotty wanted to RUN Darrell Green out of town, and we were 7-1 that year, and then PLummeted to 8-8, thats why he got fired.

[jimster]

It seems to me we did the exact same thing to Gibbs/Saunders that we did to Marty/Spurrier. We had Marty and had just made it through year 1 when Spurrier decides to "make himself available " to the NFL. So, out of necessity we go and get Spurrier and get rid of Marty. Call it a "sacrifice". We scrapped any progress made by Marty to bring in Spurrier and hopefully some longevity. It didnt work, and we all know how the Spurrier botch played out. So then we come to how it compares to Gibbs/ Saunders. Well, right after we finishd up year two of Gibbs offense, we go out and snatch up Al Saunders to replace Gibbs offense and any stability the team had on offense. We did it because Saunders became available, and it was an aquisition of necessity I was told, if we dont get him for our offense now, he wont be available later. Gibbs offense was the sacrifical lamb this time. In hindsight, sticking with Ol Marty may have paid off, just like sticking with Gibbs this season MAY have paid off. We will never know.

That was Gibbs decision to go after Saunders. - Remember Saunders, Vermeil, Gibbs, etc are all part of that old school coaching fraternity. - Gibbs had said himself that Vermeil told Gibbs his plans to retire before he made it public, and Gibbs starting thinking about Saunders then as someone who could help this team. - I think Joe realized after 2 years that his offense was a bit out-dated.

As far as the Snyder-Marty hiring/firing, people seem to forget that Marty was fired because of his GM title and his refusal to relinguish that role and just be coach. - I guess no one rememebrs how they were in meetings for 3 days straight at the end of the season trying to come to a compromise. - Snyder wanted Marty to stay on as coach, fire Jimmy Raye and hire a GM (rumor was Ron Wolf). Marty is the one that refused to compromise. - Turns out, Marty is now having some success in San Diego with someone else as GM, and an offensive coordinator who is not playing Marty-ball.

Marty is also the one that fired all the office personel and equipment managers at Redskins Park who some were with the team for decades, because they weren't "his people".

[PiLfan]

Shotty wanted to RUN Darrell Green out of town, and we were 7-1 that year, and then PLummeted to 8-8, thats why he got fired.

You're mixing up Marty's year with the infamous Norv collapse of 1996. Norv started 7-1 and finished 9-7, no playoffs.

Marty started 0-5, and finished 8-3. He did nearly run Green out of town though, in favor for some stiff called Darrell Greer (who, other than the close resemblance of his name, wasn't even in the same stratosphere as Green).

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Shotty wanted to RUN Darrell Green out of town, and we were 7-1 that year, and then PLummeted to 8-8, thats why he got fired.

You're getting your past crappy Skins seasons mixed up lol :laugh:

[PleaseGoForTheWin]

Plus, there were mutinies everywhere. I don't really blame Snyder for that. Plus, after they climbed back to .500 they lost every meaningful game. They were an almost team. Banks may have had a winning record, but that offense was as painful to watch as this year's with Brunell and may have been more painful.

The mutinies began ealry but didn't last once the team started winning. Given the state of the team when Marty arrived--and it was in BAD shape--I think it's amazing that the team managed to win 8 games. Firing him was a pretty dumb move, especially because it was done for the sake of getting Spurrier.

[TheLongshot]

Were we in bad cap shape after Spurrier? I don't remember' date=' but I don't think we we were.[/quote']

I'm not talking about the cap, I'm talking about the players, especially on offense.

Our roster was rather thin in talent, but - and this is the only time you will ever hear me defend Spurrier - he wasn't choosing the talent. The only talent that he had a real hand in bringing in was the Gator QBs and receivers his first year. And no one from that bunch cost anything.

While he probably didn't chose the players directly, his offensive scheme probably dictated certain types of players, which is why we got Trung Canidate.

Also, he's the reason why Davis was run out of town, because Spurrier refused to use him as he should be used.

When Gibbs got here, he had just Ramsey at QB, with his gimpy foot and all, and no one else. At RB, the only decent option (Betts) was injury prone and unproven. He decided to go with what we had at WR, but he found Coles and Garnder wanting. We didn't have much at TE period. Not to mention that the O-line needed to be taught how to block again.

The team was a mess.

Jason

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Shotty wanted to RUN Darrell Green out of town, and we were 7-1 that year, and then PLummeted to 8-8, thats why he got fired.

Um...wrong season. Marty started 0-5, got to 5-5, and finished 8-8.

[Seabee1973]

Instantly? - He went to San Diego and took a 8-8 team and made them 4-12 and earned the #1 overall draft pick which he spent on a QB when he had Brees already on his team. - It wasn't until he hired Cam Cameron as OC and gave up the "MArty-ball" did his offense start producing.

Like NOVA said - he also seemed to be trying to run DG out of town like he did with Rodney Harrison and Seau in SD.

...and as kleese mentioned - we STILL couldn't beat a 5-11 Dallas team, who would have been 3-13 if we had.

Marty drafted Brees when he went to San diego They had no other QB their DOug Flutie was brought in to tuter Brees.

Brees struggled for a few years but then caught fire.

[s0crates]

Brad Johnson is still one of my favorite players.

[Seabee1973]

Umm did you guys forget how marty embarrassed and mistreated Darrell Green? The greatest Redskin of all time? And when he went to San Diego he did the same thing with Seau. He had a huge ego and he sucked as a GM. If you remember, Snyder wanted Santana Moss in the draft. Marty took Rod Gardner. How'd that work out for us Also, Marty's own brother wouldn't even follow him to SD.

You take away LT from San Diego and watch what happens. And for 2 years now he's got them close but they flame out. Because he wears his teams down. They have no legs by the end of the season due to his practices.

GHe did not embarrass Green He expected every player to practice hard play it all during Training Camp and OTA's something that the skins Vets had grown accustomed to not doing during the The Norv days

[Seabee1973]

Ah, Marty revisionism. Ya gotta love it.

Of course, Marty, having inherited Tomlinson and Brees, has done some good things out in San Diego. But no mention of how he turned the offense over to Cam Cameron, instead of stifling it in his normal fashion. No mention of how BAD the Chargers were his first two seasons out there (turns teams around instantly?), so BAD that they had the top pick in the draft AFTER his SECOND season, so badly-perceived as a coach and organization that their top pick REFUSED to play for him. That their turnaround is pretty much attributed to finally getting stellar QB play and an offense that has been decidedly un-MartyBall-Like.

.

He did not inherit Tomlinson and did not inherit Brees

[Stew]

- I think Joe realized after 2 years that his offense was a bit out-dated.

As far as the Snyder-Marty hiring/firing, people seem to forget that Marty was fired because of his GM title and his refusal to relinguish that role and just be coach. -

Marty is also the one that fired all the office personel and equipment managers at Redskins Park who some were with the team for decades, because they weren't "his people".

I dont think that Gibbs offense was outdated, he took the walking wounded to the playoffs when we had 1 wr and 1 te, for the first time in like 6 years. Had we stuck with that offense with this personell I think we would be having a much better season, but again thats just my thoughts. I wasnt aware of the Marty/ Snyder standoff, and if I was at the time it must have slipped my memory. Good call, especially with the insight you and Longshot gave me, it gives me a new way to look at the whole scenario. I was beginning to wonder if the Saunders aquisition was a Snyder move or not. Thanks again for the insight!

[no1fanofno21]

no one liked banks or wanted him here. If you remember the last game of that season Banks got hurt and the fans cheered.