LoudMouth12thMan Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 Two Potential HOFers, right? Maybe :whoknows: -One wins you ball games -The other keeps you from losing them -One singlehandedly lead a team to the playoffs last year -The other was just one component (on a very good defense I might add) in reaching the playoffs last year Quite frankly, to even utter the words of those other backs that were drafted in '05 (or whenever) in the same breath as Portis is nutty. I don't see the corelation at all. Champ wanting to leave aside, I still would have done the trade. If you aren't seeing 20/20 on this one, you should consider bigger lenses :poke: HTTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanster Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 the reaction by most redskin fans' to that trade is flawed because they never address the question. instead, they something like "we couldnt keep bailey anyways so..."that's not the question. the question is, REGARDLESS of the situation, how did the value of the trade work out? And the answer is the Redskins were abolutley, positively robbed. It was a terrible trade for the Redskins. Portis is a good (not elite) RB. He's not in my top 5 at his own position. Champ Bailey is in the top 5 - of ANY position. Now, the CB position FAR outweighs the importance of the RB position - another blow to this trade. RB's are almost a dozen. No, Portis isn't a dime-a-dozen but you can plug in a Ladell Betts as your starter and win football games. You can't just plug in a Mike Rumph for example and win games. CB along with QB perhaps LT and Kicker are the most important positions in the game. Finally, throw in a HIGH 2nd round draft pick to boot - this was nothing short of awful. The avg at-his-prime for RB is also much shorter in years compared to almost any position - including CB. It was a mistake. You don't know what you are talking about and from what you have to say I would question whether you are really a Redskin fan!!! Clinton Portis can run the ball great and compare his blocking out of the backfeild with other running backs and see what you come up with. Another thing, YOU WOULD NEVER HEAR CP SAY TO THE MEDIA THAT WE WERE OUTCOACHED LIKE YOUR BOY TIKI BARBER DID LAST YEAR!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanster Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 There was a reason why Champ didn't want to be here. He was tired of the constant turnover this franchise had been going through. I wonder what the defense would be like if they still had Champ, Smoot, and Pierce right now? Please!!! What an excuse, are you Bailey' advocate. A team player is just that, he doesn't cry and be ready to leave when the team is having problems. When Coach Joe Gibbs came back, he said he wanted players who are TRUE REDSKINS!!! It is evident you don't understand what he meant. When the going gets tough, the weak want to run!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mania Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 You mention we'd be the deepest secondary if we had Bailey, Rogers and Springs, but we wouldn't have Springs if we kept Bailey. We also wouldn't have been able to afford Marcus Washington. So am I glad we have Portis over Bailey -- yes. I feel we got the better end of the deal because of the players we were able to add to our team once we traded Bailey. Look at it this way, Portis is only 25 years old and Bailey is approaching 30. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregpeck99 Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 Champ woud have stayed if the Skins met his exhorbitant $$ demands (Denver did). They chose not too and made the best of the $$$/free agency situation. Its the nature of the beast. So what if Champ is good at his job ... its apples and oranges. Portis is extremely valuable to the Skins ... at least they got something out of it. Losing players like Champ, Pierce, Smoot, etc. you gotta learn to live with it and move on ... look at all the FAs the Skins buy up. Its a big chess game. Whadda whadda if is the same as blah, blah, blah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDSKNfaithfull Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 Champ didn't want to leave untill our front office starting dragging out his contract. After seeing everybody else come in and get paid its ashame we don't take care of our own (except Samuels,Jansen) Some day our FO will learn that the longer they wait to extend a contract the more the premium goes up :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkart Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 This horse is SOOOO dead, you should replace the horse with a bottle of glue. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Die Hard Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 It's funny to listen to this argument so many times.... and realize how many people have formed opinions on matters where they don't have all the information necessary to have an informed opinion... but it doesn't stop people anyways from discussing it. Disgruntled with front office. Contract talks stalling. Upset about player/coach turnover. Wanted to be the highest paid corner. Keep going... that's a good foundation However, it's encouraging to see people begin to realize that Bailey wasn't coming back to Washington. That much is true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Emrys Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 Chump Bailey didn't have a Redskins heart. It's great that the Redskins traded him and got such a quality player in Portis. Chump was going to get out one way or another. I still don't see the reason the 'Skins had to throw in that 2nd round pick. The deal was slightly in Denver's favor at the time - shut down corners are rare. But, that's what you get when Vinny Cerato is GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roanoker Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 It appears that both the players and teams were/are satisfied with the transaction. This dead horse has been beat, stomped and pounded in the dirt for a number of years. Let him Rest in Peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnhay Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 I think everyone here knew Champ Bailey was one of the best corners in the league when he left, but few wanted to admit it. It seems like a good corner is harder to find then a good runningback, but Portis is a Redskin and Bailey isn't so it doesn't matter. Plus, everyone knows that Bailey didn't want to be here anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayAction Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 The Champ Bailey trade is only of continued interest to Skins fans because it is yet another example of the Skins management (Gibbs included) not giving proper value to their draft picks. I would say that most around the league consider Bailey to be a great CB and Portis to be a great RB. Skins were offered a first round pick + extras for Bailey. If the Skins hadn't traded for Portis they would have had a first round pick + their own second round pick + something extra (player or low pick). As good as Portis is that is just too much draft value for one player. Then the Skins go and trade away multiple potential starter picks for Campbell. Recently the traded a third round potential starter for the right to one year of TJ Duckett. Who got the pick? Denver again. They love the Skins. It's like taking candy from a baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#1njskinsfan Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 Champ was unhappy here. I wouldn't want cancers that would ruin our chemistry.I'm 150% happy with Clinton Portis here in D.C. enough said.........CP26 and SS24 for and unhappy champ and a 2nd round pick....... :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetSkins Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 why are you bringing this up now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick86L Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 Please refer to the 2004 archives :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins4481 Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 the reaction by most redskin fans' to that trade is flawed because they never address the question. instead, they something like "we couldnt keep bailey anyways so..."that's not the question. the question is, REGARDLESS of the situation, how did the value of the trade work out? And the answer is the Redskins were abolutley, positively robbed. It was a terrible trade for the Redskins. Portis is a good (not elite) RB. He's not in my top 5 at his own position. Champ Bailey is in the top 5 - of ANY position. Now, the CB position FAR outweighs the importance of the RB position - another blow to this trade. RB's are almost a dozen. No, Portis isn't a dime-a-dozen but you can plug in a Ladell Betts as your starter and win football games. You can't just plug in a Mike Rumph for example and win games. CB along with QB perhaps LT and Kicker are the most important positions in the game. Finally, throw in a HIGH 2nd round draft pick to boot - this was nothing short of awful. The avg at-his-prime for RB is also much shorter in years compared to almost any position - including CB. It was a mistake. gee, a troll doesnt like a skins move? That wasnt expected. No one cares what you think troll, keep your stupid opinions to yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCSaints_fan Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 It was a bad deal for the Redskins Champ for Portis wouldn't have been that bad, still in Denver's favor, but not robbery Champ for a 2nd wouldn't have been that bad, still in Denver's favor, but not robbery Champ AND a 2nd for Portis is robbery. It sent the message to the rest of the league 'The Redskins are chumps who don't care about draft picks' and led to the years of the Redskins being railroaded during trade negotiations, which will only end when Cerrato is gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryanjr2003 Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 "It's funny to listen to this argument so many times.... and realize how many people have formed opinions on matters where they don't have all the information necessary to have an informed opinion... but it doesn't stop people anyways from discussing it." - Die Hard Everyone had the same information as you do. LOL what do they send you your own personal information if it makes you feel better to think you know more by reading the same thing every other redskins fan read have fun.:notworthy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPASkinsFan Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 If Champ was still here we wouldn't have signed Springs and we'd still need an elite RB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 With Champ and no Portis on last year's team we don't make the playoffs. Portis is an elite back, make no mistake. Top ten in rushing every year from 02-05. Top ten in yards from scrimmage every year from 02-05. Only one other player in the league can make that claim: LT. To those of you who claim that any old RB can walk in off the street and put up the numbers Portis has, and carry an offense the way Portis has, I whole-heartedly disagree. Bailey's a great player too. And during a year when we've had injury problems throughout the secondary it's an easy time to lament his departure. But in the five years he was here he was never the difference-maker on defense that Portis is on offense. I'll take Portis, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggoReincarnated Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 considering champ no longer wanted to be here: YES...Case Closed! He would have wanted to be here once he got to know Joe Gibbs and Gibbs informed him of the 3 year Master Plan to win the Super Bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIDETHEWALRUS Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 Lets be honest here, Champ is an excellent cornerback, maybe the best in the league. But simply put, he didn't want to be here, of courdse we could of paid him enough to stick around and peddle his wares in the DC area, but this isn't the spot for him. We have two options with what ou have put forward. We can take a runningback who changes the game when used properly, who has had 1500 yd seasons in3 of his first 4 years, or we could have a guy who nearly shuts down ONE reciever each play on defense. A runningback who is on pace (I emphasize that I say "on pace") to become one of the greatest RBs ever, versus a solid CB. No question at all, CP is th ebest possible option for our team! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggoReincarnated Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 It was a bad deal for the RedskinsChamp for Portis wouldn't have been that bad, still in Denver's favor, but not robbery Champ for a 2nd wouldn't have been that bad, still in Denver's favor, but not robbery Champ AND a 2nd for Portis is robbery. It sent the message to the rest of the league 'The Redskins are chumps who don't care about draft picks' and led to the years of the Redskins being railroaded during trade negotiations, which will only end when Cerrato is gone. Is Cerrato gay? Seriously he bends over like a puss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trillskinsfan Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 Hindsight is 20/20, and I love Clinton Portis, but looking back, ESPN says he's by far the best corner in the league, and after last weeks game I would probably agree.Not trying to make people mad, just trying to make conversation. And yes I know this has been talked to death, but I did a search and nothing recent came back. Here's some of the running backs who were selected after Campbell's pick (25th of first round.) Some of them are pretty productive where they are, some aren't: Round 2, pick 44: J.J. Arrington (Arizona) Round 2, pick 54: Eric Shelton (Carolina) Round 3, pick 65: Frank Gore (San Francisco)* Round 3, pick 73: Vernand Morency (Houston) Round 3, pick 77: Ryan Moats (Philadelphia) Round 3, pick 101: Maurice Clarett (Denver) Round 4, pick 109: Marion Barber III (Dallas)* Round 4, pick 110: Brandon Jacobs (New York Giants) Undrafted: Mike Bell (Denver)* In 2004, there weren't many backs who were available after we picked Sean Taylor and Chris Cooley (even I won't go as far as to say we shouldn't have picked them up.) Michael Turner (San Diego) has had a few good games. Clinton has been the face of the franchise (especially since LaVar left) and I love him to death, but do you guys think he was worth Champ and that round 2 pick? Worth mentioning are our current struggles at corner. We'd be the deepest secondary in the league with Bailey, Springs, and Carlos Rogers. Before you guys shoot me down, think of this: Would Denver trade back Bailey and a second round pick for Portis? Probably not, even though he is better than any back they've had since. WORTHLESS:doh: you mean you would rather have CB sitting here getting toasted by all of the NFC east WR just like he did when he was here,for one of those Backs?lmao CP broke the Skins all time rushing record in just his second year here imo i would much rather have Springs i like the fact of knowing he would shutdown the WR for the Giants!if we get Clements then this was a great move by GIBBS.if we dont get NC it still worked out for us period! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Die Hard Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 "It's funny to listen to this argument so many times.... and realize how many people have formed opinions on matters where they don't have all the information necessary to have an informed opinion... but it doesn't stop people anyways from discussing it." - Die HardEveryone had the same information as you do. LOL what do they send you your own personal information if it makes you feel better to think you know more by reading the same thing every other redskins fan read have fun.:notworthy Um, no. Not everyone has the same information that I do. I was privy to it by a Redskins official (a few). Believe it or not... football is a business just like any other type of business. It has it's politics, water cooler gossip (within each team and the NFL), drama, etc. And those associated with each football organization are actually human beings... living beings who eat food like you and I do. They aren't on a pedestal and so far removed from us that they are unapproachable. Some of us actually know people and players. Imagine that huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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