Anything MMA, except thumb wrestling

[Chachie]

I think you just don't know Rashad very well. Guy is hard to dislike after watching him on TV enough, imo.

A really good coach starts with a really good person. I honestly believe Rashad is a well-meaning, stand-up guy. I have no idea why I root against him. Maybe it's because I didn't think he'd win TUF, I didn't think he'd win a title, and he keeps proving me wrong. Like Rampage, the joke's on me. Rashad Evans is a cool dude who just keeps competing and works tirelessly at his trade... and I already want Shogun to flatten him.

:whoknows:

[StillUnknown]

A really good coach starts with a really good person. I honestly believe Rashad is a well-meaning, stand-up guy. I have no idea why I root against him. Maybe it's because I didn't think he'd win TUF, I didn't think he'd win a title, and he keeps proving me wrong. Like Rampage, the joke's on me. Rashad Evans is a cool dude who just keeps competing and works tirelessly at his trade... and I already want Shogun to flatten him.

:whoknows:

i suffer the same irrational hate for GSP & Urijah Faber

nothing about them bothers me in the least, yet i always end up rooting against them

[Special K]

I think you just don't know Rashad very well. Guy is hard to dislike after watching him on TV enough, imo.

What really gets me about GSP's last fight is Greg Jackson in the corner telling him "don't try to pass" over and over again. It made it crystal clear what their strategy was, and it sucks.

Yeah, I get glimpses of him, when he was coaching on TUF actually, where I can see he's probably a good guy. I actually thought he was a good coach on TUF. I don't know, something about him rubs me the wrong way though. Whatever, I'm sure if I hung out with him ever I'd totally change my tune like I have on a lot of wrestlers. But like I said in one of my previous posts, it takes me a while to warm up to wrestlers personalities, it's really weird and I can't explain it, lol.

That being said, I'll never like Matt Hughes, never. I have always pegged him as an ass and the times I've met him and talked to him, he's only confirmed that he's a pompous ass. Great wrestler and welterweight UFC fighter though and I respect him for that.

Another anomaly that I can't explain is why I like Brock Lesnar. I don't know, I think the dude's hilarious. I probably would hate him too if my husband hadn't told me stories about what the guy's really like and convinced me a lot of the crap he does is for show. I don't know, the guy's antics crack me up though.

So yes, there is no rhyme or reason as to who I like and dislike

A really good coach starts with a really good person. I honestly believe Rashad is a well-meaning, stand-up guy. I have no idea why I root against him. Maybe it's because I didn't think he'd win TUF, I didn't think he'd win a title, and he keeps proving me wrong. Like Rampage, the joke's on me. Rashad Evans is a cool dude who just keeps competing and works tirelessly at his trade... and I already want Shogun to flatten him.

:whoknows:

You sound as confused as me, Chac!

[thegreatbobo]

To think, all it would have taken is for Page to be a little bit more collected and landed those two missed shots when Rashad was rocked on the ground, and justice against the Wall-N-Stall would have been served. I really want all of Greg Jackson's fighters to lose because his tactics are really killing this sport in terms of popularity growth. It's like if a football club figured out how to stop any passing in the NFL and the opposing team could only run the ball for like maybe 5 - 6 yards at most each play and this happens for the whole game. Jackson's fighters win by making a fight not happen. That is just wrong. Although, as a figure head GSP is really great guy but I have to root against him now because of his lay n pray tactics.

[#98QBKiller]

a figure head GSP is really great guy but I have to root against him now because of his lay n pray tactics.

I have to disagree about GSP. His game does depend on taking guys down and controlling them but he doesn't just stall like a typical lay n pray guy would. He actively works for subs and to ground n pound his opponent. Look at the Dan Hardy fight, he worked in a nasty armbar and a kimura but Hardy just simply refused to tap. That armbar was in deep too, I think we should give more credit to Hardy for surviving it. I think we'll see a different strategy against Koscheck, because Kos can really wrestle as well. I don't think GSP can just take him down at will and try to sub him for 5 rounds.

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

Everyone wants to compare GSP to Jon Fitch and other lay & prayers, but the fact is he is much more active than people want to give him credit for. He isn't going to risk making a career changing mistake to please Bubba and Biff that think Miller Lite is the greatest thing to hit the planet since the air we breathe.

The examples I keep hearing about are what Fitch looked like after their fight, and the two close submissions he almost put on Hardy. But if you've ever had a black belt go through a couple rolling sessions with you, and then you watch all the subtle things GSP does on the ground, you wonder if the guy has a chip in his head. The guy is a wizard on the ground, and pure jiu jitsu isn't going to be that exciting to a bunch of impatient unknowledgable MMA fans.

He is not a lay and prayer (people who just sit there and fight off anything that presents a risk to their top position) he is a patient grappler that works hard for the little things. He will slowly move your arm out of the way for 15 seconds just to get in a few clean strikes. Sorry, but sometimes that's how long it takes to move an elite mixed martial artist's arm out of the way without getting swept or losing position. Sometimes I wonder if these people that complain about GSP's "lay and pray" have ever taken one class in jiu jitsu. I also wonder if they watch MMA simply because it's popular and they want to hop on the bandwagon. Seems like K1 would be much better suited for some of these people.

Edited May 31, 2010 by d0ublestr0ker0ll

[Sebowski]

You guys need to watch the Hardy fight again just to listen to Jackson in etween rounds telling GSP explicitly "DO NOT TRY TO PASS". I swear I almost puked when he said that and then he said it again in between the next rounds. Yes, he had two good sub attempts in a five round fight. I think history will prove that Dan Hardy is a B level fighter that should have never been in the cage with GSP. We'll see. Yes, he has great Jiu jitsu, but he refusues to put himself at any risk to end a fight. To me that is the difference between going down as the all time greatest or just one of the best. Right now he is just one of the best. An it isn't just his ground work that can be frustrating to watch, it is his text book Jackson style standing cage clinches. GSP has admitted he fights safe to win.

Here is a quote from the man himself

http://mmajunkie.com/news/19283/ufc-champ-georges-st-pierre-i-fight-safe-and-im-not-going-to-hide-it.mma

"I'm fighting safe," St-Pierre admitted. "Every time I step into the octagon, my life is in jeopardy. For me, it's more important to not get hit than to hit the guy. I will never fight in a way [in which] I fight like I flip a coin.

"I never took risks. The only fight I took a risk was when I fought Matt Serra, and I went in a stupid exchange, and it was not smart. I got caught; Serra beat me fair and square, and he deserved the victory that night. But it taught me a good lesson, and I don't want it to happen again."

he goes on to say

"I don't fight like an idiot," St-Pierre said. "That's what defines me. I'm (not the) champion because I'm the strongest guy in the division. It's not because I'm the fastest guy. I'm not the best grappler. I'm not the best striker. I'm not the best wrestler. But why I'm champion is because I fight smart every single fight.

But the thing is GSP may very well be the best wrestler and grappler in your division and can be a hell of a striker too.

From the same article and towards Double's point:

"I did add some great highlights that people don't even acknowledge," St-Pierre said. "At the end of the third round, for example, the best grappling highlight of my whole career was in (my fight with) Dan Hardy."

The highlight, he said, was when he took Hardy's back, transitioned to a legock and passed guard, all in quick succession.

"That was a beautiful display of jiu-jitsu," St-Pierre said. "People don't even know this because they don't have the knowledge to appreciate what happened. Some do, but a lot of people did not acknowledge what happened."

That is fine Georges and Double, but just like when we get on wrestlers for trying to win on wrestling points, you don't get JJ points in MMA. Good for you. Great transitions, now do something with it! Fight!

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

I hate lay and pray, but I don't think GSP does it. He's passed everyones'a guard many times and gone to work: BJ, Hughes, Alves, Fitch, even Hardy. He also, like I said, lands clean shots, as opposed to elbows to the forearms of his opponents like most lay and prayers do.

There are two points here. First, if we're going to tell anybody to "take risks" (which is a vague idea that varies with each fighter as it is) we are picking on the wrong guy. Sure, you should have to stay active and make progress with position/damage, but how about telling the other guy to risk himself a little more? After all, he's the one that got taken advantage of in the first place. Nobody is complaining about Hardy? I think the notion that fighters should fight risky for the purpose of pleasing fans is getting a little ridiculous.

The other point is something that would probably be a tad polarizing. It would tailor to the casual audience more than the hardcore fan: Referees being more strict about groundwork. We could think of it like a "break" from a clinch in boxing. Fighters would have (just to throw a number out there) 15 seconds to pass someones guard or land clean strikes while inside of it. I don't know, the point is perhaps more fans would be happy with a quicker stand-them-up policy.

That being said, I find a stark contrast between the Sherks, Maynards and Fitches of the world when compared to GSP. From my perspective, watching GSP on the ground is like watching an artist go to work. There is a difference between the shoulder-smothering defensive tactics of lay and pray and the methodical offensive manuevering that GSP does.

Edited May 31, 2010 by d0ublestr0ker0ll

[Sebowski]

I hate lay and pray, but I don't think GSP does it. He's passed everyones'a guard many times and gone to work: BJ, Hughes, Alves, Fitch, even Hardy. He also, like I said, lands clean shots, as opposed to elbows to the forearms of his opponents like most lay and prayers do.

There are two points here. First, if we're going to tell anybody to "take risks" (which is a vague idea that varies with each fighter as it is) we are picking on the wrong guy. Sure, you should have to stay active and make progress with position/damage, but how about telling the other guy to risk himself a little more? After all, he's the one that got taken advantage of in the first place. Nobody is complaining about Hardy? I think the notion that fighters should fight risky for the purpose of pleasing fans is getting a little ridiculous.

The other point is something that would probably be a tad polarizing. It would tailor to the casual audience more than the hardcore fan: Referees being more strict about groundwork. We could think of it like a "break" from a clinch in boxing. Fighters would have (just to throw a number out there) 15 seconds to pass someones guard or land clean strikes while inside of it. I don't know, the point is perhaps more fans would be happy with a quicker stand-them-up policy.

That being said, I find a stark contrast between the Sherks, Maynards and Fitches of the world when compared to GSP. From my perspective, watching GSP on the ground is like watching an artist go to work. There is a difference between the shoulder-smothering defensive tactics of lay and pray and the methodical offensive manuevering that GSP does.

Hardy should have thrown more in his very small windows for sure. Especially after talking so much. Like I said, I don't think Hardy will ever be a champion.

It isn't about taking risks to please the fans. It is about taking risks to finish the fight. Pleasing the fans would be a side effect of that.

GSP's fence work bothers me more than his ground work. Again, I will never forget hearing his corner tell him not to pass guard.

[StillUnknown]

diego has a good chin, that would've finished most fighters

Edited May 31, 2010 by StillUnknown

[#98QBKiller]

***Dream 14 spoilers below in ninja***

:ninja:

Gfgb6dsa9OM

Nick dominated Sakurai and subbed him:

-Hellboy got KO'd by Hiroyuki Takaya

-Sakuraba lost to Ralek Gracie via UD (time for Sakuraba to retire)

-Minowa RNC's Imani Lee? Never heard of Lee

-Kid Yamamoto got back on the winning track with a KO over Federico Lopez

[lovetoaster]

***Dream 14 spoilers below in ninja***

Didn't that happen a few days ago?

[#98QBKiller]

Didn't that happen a few days ago?

Yeah it happened on Sunday so I guess it technically isn't a spoiler. I was just late catching it b/c I was out of town.

[Destino]

I think you just don't know Rashad very well. Guy is hard to dislike after watching him on TV enough, imo.

What really gets me about GSP's last fight is Greg Jackson in the corner telling him "don't try to pass" over and over again. It made it crystal clear what their strategy was, and it sucks.

Two things.

1 - I've watched Rashad on TV plenty of times and I can assure you there is plenty to dislike. The guy is a disrespectful self centered douche. He belittles the guys he coaches, bails on them in fights, and can never be bothered to show anyone respect... all while demanding it. He grabbed his own junk in the fight against Griffin (classy). Feigns a heart attack while his opponent is out cold (classy). I could go on. F that guy.

2 - GSP doesn't need to always pass guard because he's one of the few that does a great deal of damage in the guard. While he does push against the fence and wrestle... he also tends to beat the living crap out of his opponents. Hardy survived two subs and came out unusually clean. Alves took a beating. BJ Penn got absolutely smashed into dust. Jon Fitch looked like he was mugged after his fight. Matt Serra got kneed into humility. Hughes was submitted....

Let's not pretend that GSP's fights look like the show Evans just put on. Evans was determined not to allow a fight to break out. He fought entirely for control and never attempted a submission.

[Chachie]

Big Mike and Destino are full of rage.

[StillUnknown]

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/6/3/1499674/early-reports-indicate-920000-pay

early numbers for ufc 114 are 920k

pretty big number considering it was carried by one fight

[Unforgiven]

1 - I've watched Rashad on TV plenty of times and I can assure you there is plenty to dislike. The guy is a disrespectful self centered douche. He belittles the guys he coaches, bails on them in fights, and can never be bothered to show anyone respect... all while demanding it. He grabbed his own junk in the fight against Griffin (classy). Feigns a heart attack while his opponent is out cold (classy). I could go on. F that guy.

While I'm not going to defend anything goofy he's done in the cage (I thought feigning the heart attack was funny as hell but that's just an opinion). I have to say that he was a really good coach on TUF, the polar opposite of Rampage. Rampage threw temper tantrums and was pretty much useless as a coach, Rashad was way more patient and helpful with his fighters.

[Destino]

Am I wrong in not being all that interested in UFC 115? Seems kind of bleh over all to me. I'll still watch it though. Maybe it's just that I really want to Lesnar Carwin.

[Unforgiven]

Am I wrong in not being all that interested in UFC 115? Seems kind of bleh over all to me. I'll still watch it though. Maybe it's just that I really want to Lesnar Carwin.

hah...You sound exactly like me.

I said the exact same thing to a friend the other day and he brought up the point that Franklin fights are usually pretty entertaining. I'll probably check it out at a sports bar, but 116 is the one most everyone is drooling over and I'll have friends over to watch it.

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

Let's not forget that there's a tendancy that lame cards turn out to be good because of the recklessness involved. Tune in.

That said, party at my place for 116.

[RabidFan]

While I'm not going to defend anything goofy he's done in the cage (I thought feigning the heart attack was funny as hell but that's just an opinion). I have to say that he was a really good coach on TUF, the polar opposite of Rampage. Rampage threw temper tantrums and was pretty much useless as a coach, Rashad was way more patient and helpful with his fighters.

Exactly...Rashad and his coaches were all about supporting their team...he was a great coach and nothing like Rampage's T.O.-like me-ness. I actually grew to like Rashad more after liking him in his TUF run as a fighter then being a showboating donkey in the ring after beating Liddel....Me thinks his demolishment by Machida matured him many years. I was glad to see him beat Rampage after weathering the storm by the puncher....Rampage is more like Chuck in that he wins with braun over brains.

[lovetoaster]

Am I wrong in not being all that interested in UFC 115? Seems kind of bleh over all to me. I'll still watch it though. Maybe it's just that I really want to Lesnar Carwin.

I am kinda wishy-washy on it. I am not very excited for the main event, but I actually am for the rest of the fights on the main card. However, I will not be purchasing this one. I have bought every one for a while, but I will be heading to a bar for this one.

Unfortunately, I tend to spend more money when I do that. Stupid booze.

[Special K]

Yeah, i don't give a crap about UFC 115. I'll still watch it, but I don't really go. We'll definitely be having a party at our place for the 116 UFC........

[Chachie]

I actually find UFC 115 to be a very interesting card.

None of the fighters are looking at getting title shots from this card so in that respect the picture will remain static when the night is over, but- look at these matchups...

Franklin vs. Liddell- Much like Couture-Minotauro, this fight would have had people foaming at the mouth 4 years ago. True MMA fans should still want to see this fight. They've both had their tough run lately but comeon, these are two legends.

Mirko vs. Barry- Cro Cop is a shell of his former self but Barry's inexperience evens the odds.

Thiago vs. Kampmann- This is a sweet friggin' matchup.

Yvel vs. Rothwell- Brawling big punchers!

I'll be here and I hope my fellow thumbwrestlers will be here too.

[#98QBKiller]

I actually find UFC 115 to be a very interesting card.

None of the fighters are looking at getting title shots from this card so in that respect the picture will remain static when the night is over, but- look at these matchups...

Franklin vs. Liddell- Much like Couture-Minotauro, this fight would have had people foaming at the mouth 4 years ago. True MMA fans should still want to see this fight. They've both had their tough run lately but comeon, these are two legends.

Mirko vs. Barry- Cro Cop is a shell of his former self but Barry's inexperience evens the odds.

Thiago vs. Kampmann- This is a sweet friggin' matchup.

Yvel vs. Rothwell- Brawling big punchers!

I'll be here and I hope my fellow thumbwrestlers will be here too.

I'm not gonna lie, I'm actually very excited for this card. Franklin/Liddell obviously isn't what it would've been a few years ago but IMO it's a good matchup considering where they both are in their careers right now. They're both older and coming off of tough loses. Hell, IMO, Franklin has lost three straight (Wanderlei won that bout in Germany).

Paulo Thiago is one of my favorite up & comers. He's a beast on the ground and obviously has KO power in his hands. The only loss on his record is to Jon Fitch who (although boring to watch) is by most accounts a top 2-3 WW in the world. Kampmann has been an exciting fighter in the past so this one should provide some fireworks, in the end though Paulo should be able to work Kampmann pretty good.

Cro-Cops fighting another striker. I can't not get excited when Cro-Cop fights. Someone's getting KO'd. Probably Cro Cop but you never know when the left leg is going to take someone's head clean off.

Rothwell vs. Yvel: yes please.

Even the Condit fight is halfway interesting. Rory MacDonald was beast in KOTC and he's beaten guys several weight classes above his. Plus he's not even old enough to drink yet. He's got potential. He's a good matchup for Condit who's had trouble stepping up to the level of competition that the UFC brings.

Plus, after this card we get the TUF finale a week later, Fedor/Werdum a week after that, then Lesnar/Carwin a week after that. Lots of good MMA in the next month.