Anything MMA, except thumb wrestling

[ZoEd]

No you don't, that's a myth and long has been. No where in the rules of MMA does it say that you have to "whip the champ's ass" or any of the like. A win is a win, whether it's a points win or a finish.

That's one of the most asinine sayings ever. If the champ is hypothetically the best, then why do they need a handicap?

PS: Last night's fight wasn't razor thin either. Machida was outpointed and simply didn't do enough to warrant a win. The FightMetric numbers are just further evidence of botched judging.

Easy dude, you're going to pop a blood vessel. I can't figure out if it's your man crush for Rua or your dislike for Machida fuel your venom in here but I've never seen you so bent out of shape over a fight.

No where in the NBA rules is Kobe, MJ or Labron allowed extra steps when going to the basket, yet apparently it happens all the time.

No one ever said it was a rule in MMA yet it's always been understood in the fight game. Computers don't score fights, humans do. You can't ignore the fact the judges may be a little biased and give the champ the benefit of the doubt. No one wants to be the judge who takes away a belt from someone when the margine of victory is so thin. So, to be cautious they expect a little more back and white to help them score a fight. I saw the first three rounds going to Machida, but barely. You saw the last three going to Rua, many didn't. Subjective.

As for the numbers, makes you wonder where they got them from. I honesty don't think there were 149 strikes thrown in the entire match let alone by Rua. Not to mention him landing 82. Did you honestly see him land 82 strikes? Seriously? Are they talking about the jabs that do absolutely no damage? I too rewatched the fight with these numbers in mind I couldn't count 82 strikes that landed.

[Chachie]

The people who saw a Machida victory are guys whose opinions about MMA I respect. I guess this fight was closer than I thought it was. Perhaps it's the fact that Shogun was even competitive with Lyoto that surpised me into thinking he won? Perhaps I was ignoring some of Machida's offensive effectiveness? Perhaps I'm not a sharp an MMA viewer as I think I have become?

Nah. Rua beat him up and got shafted.

[StillUnknown]

The people who saw a Machida victory are guys whose opinions about MMA I respect. I guess this fight was closer than I thought it was. Perhaps it's the fact that Shogun was even competitive with Lyoto that surpised me into thinking he won? Perhaps I was ignoring some of Machida's offensive effectiveness? Perhaps I'm not a sharp an MMA viewer as I think I have become?

Nah. Rua beat him up and got shafted.

the "machida won" crowd is in the extreme minority on this one (not that it means they're wrong)

[Patrick86L]

I'm fairly new to MMA so I have a question for you guys. What happens to Anthony Johnson since he came in the fight overweight? I always just assumed that if the fighter doesn't make weight he doesn't fight. I read something that Dana said he would have gotten KO of the night if he wasn't overweight. Do they just get a fine and carry on?

[StillUnknown]

I'm fairly new to MMA so I have a question for you guys. What happens to Anthony Johnson since he came in the fight overweight? I always just assumed that if the fighter doesn't make weight he doesn't fight. I read something that Dana said he would have gotten KO of the night if he wasn't overweight. Do they just get a fine and carry on?

first the fighter's opponent has to agree to still take the fight. if that happens (most of the time it does, because they still want to be paid), the fighter who comes in overweight submits a portion of their fight purse to their opponent. in this case Yoshida got 20% of Johnson's fight purse, and johnson wasn't eligible for the KO of the night bonus, which would've been an additional $60k

[Patrick86L]

http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/report-lesnar-out-of-ufc-106-20560

UFC heavyweight champion Brock Lesnar has withdrawn from his upcoming title defense against Shane Carwin due to illness, UFC President Dana White told Yahoo Sports on Monday.

I was really looking forward to see what Lesnar could do finally fighting someone his own size

edit: Here is the Yahoo article

http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news;_ylt=AjMyR3Nu6rzGdmsgtG7MfpQ9Eo14?slug=ki-lesnar102609&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Edited October 26, 2009 by Patrick86L

[StillUnknown]

i wonder what fight they'll use to replace it. the champs are pretty tied up right now. BJ/Diego is in DEC. Anderson/Belfor is in Jan (if Anderson is healthy), GSP has said he's not fighting until next year because of the groin injury

a Shogun/Machida rematch would be good, but thats an awful short turnaround for both fighters

Carwin's twitter page is saying that it'll probably be rescheduled for the Jan 2nd card

Edited October 26, 2009 by StillUnknown

[Slacky McSlackAss]

Wow, that sucks. That card was shaping up to be a good one too.

[Patrick86L]

What about Nogueira taking Lesnar's place to fight Carwin? Or is Nog already scheduled?

[Chachie]

http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/report-lesnar-out-of-ufc-106-20560

I was really looking forward to see what Lesnar could do finally fighting someone his own size

edit: Here is the Yahoo article

http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news;_ylt=AjMyR3Nu6rzGdmsgtG7MfpQ9Eo14?slug=ki-lesnar102609&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

What kind of illness makes a guy pull out of a fight that's almost a month away?

Edited October 26, 2009 by Chachie

[Slacky McSlackAss]

What about Nogueira taking Lesnar's place to fight Carwin? Or is Nog already scheduled?

Carwin was slated for a title shot, It'd be a dick move to take that away from him and make him go through Nog to get it again.

[WALEOVECHKIN]

On the sherdog report it says that Carwin informed them that he was told the fight is moved to the Jan. 2nd card in Vegas.

[Patrick86L]

Carwin was slated for a title shot, It'd be a dick move to take that away from him and make him go through Nog to get it again.

Yeah that's true. What a bummer for Carwin. Is it just me or wouldn't we have heard something in the past 3 1/2 weeks about Lesnar not training? You would think they would be following his camp like they do before most big fights.

[StillUnknown]

What kind of illness makes a guy pull out of a fight that's almost a month away?

its not so much that wouldn't be physically ok when the card rolls around, its that he's not physically able to train leading up to the fight

a typical fight camp (for major fights) lasts about 6-8 weeks.

[StillUnknown]

Carwin was slated for a title shot, It'd be a dick move to take that away from him and make him go through Nog to get it again.

it would be ironic though.

the original plan was to have Carwin fight Cain last saturday to determing the #1 contender. then they simply moved carwin from that fight and inserted him into the championship fight

[#98QBKiller]

Easy dude, you're going to pop a blood vessel. I can't figure out if it's your man crush for Rua or your dislike for Machida fuel your venom in here but I've never seen you so bent out of shape over a fight.

No where in the NBA rules is Kobe, MJ or Labron allowed extra steps when going to the basket, yet apparently it happens all the time.

No one ever said it was a rule in MMA yet it's always been understood in the fight game. Computers don't score fights, humans do. You can't ignore the fact the judges may be a little biased and give the champ the benefit of the doubt. No one wants to be the judge who takes away a belt from someone when the margine of victory is so thin. So, to be cautious they expect a little more back and white to help them score a fight. I saw the first three rounds going to Machida, but barely. You saw the last three going to Rua, many didn't. Subjective.

As for the numbers, makes you wonder where they got them from. I honesty don't think there were 149 strikes thrown in the entire match let alone by Rua. Not to mention him landing 82. Did you honestly see him land 82 strikes? Seriously? Are they talking about the jabs that do absolutely no damage? I too rewatched the fight with these numbers in mind I couldn't count 82 strikes that landed.

No need to act like a douche and start throwing out "man crush" accusations.

My venom is that the judges dropped the ball like Braylon Edwards...on a huge title fight. Did you see Hamilton's fight card giving round 4 to Machida? Even the extreme minority that thinks Machida won the fight admits that he lost the last two rounds.

Aside from my beef with the "you have to beat the champ" nonsense, the judges not only were "a little biased" toward the champ, they took it a step further and gave the fight to the champ who got completely outmatched for at least three rounds. I've gone back and watched the fight and it's not a thin margin of victory either. Rua, without a doubt, did enough to warrant taking the belt from Machida. It's that simple.

As for the numbers, no one is asking for the fight to be scored based on a computer, but the percentage of strikes landed is a telltale sign of who was more dominant in a bout. If Machida scored a lot of takedowns and/or submission attempts and controlled Rua on the ground, then those numbers wouldn't mean so much. But in a bout that was fought completely on the feet, the numbers are evidence as to who scored the most points.

Not sure where you get that "many didn't" see the last three rounds for Rua. Most everyone scored the fight for Shogun. The majority of editors at Sherdog scored Rounds 1, 3, 4, and 5 for Shogun, SI.com scored the fight for Shogun, even Dana White said that he thought Shogun won the fight.

It's pretty clear to most people, and I don't understand why anyone would think it's ok to for a 5-round fight to go down the tubes like this or for judges to be even "a little biased." These guys are competitors that train hard and diet and train some more, generally putting their bodies through hell for months at a time to prepare for a fight and it's a damn shame when a judge ****s up the call or when a ref *ahem* Steve Mazzagatti *ahem* makes bad decisions to rob them of their hard work.

[Sebowski]

As for the numbers, no one is asking for the fight to be scored based on a computer, but the percentage of strikes landed is a telltale sign of who was more dominant in a bout. If Machida scored a lot of takedowns and/or submission attempts and controlled Rua on the ground, then those numbers wouldn't mean so much. But in a bout that was fought completely on the feet, the numbers are evidence as to who scored the most points.

I wish they judged fights like they do in Japan as a whole instead of round by round, but they don't. The numbers show the whole fight. It doesn't mean he won every round. I haven't rewatched it yet. I plan on it this week (on mute). I don't remember why I gave the 2nd and 3rd to Machida, I just remember thinking he edged it out. I remember giving him the 1st for landing the better shots. The knee flurry in the clinch at the start and the knee close to the end.

[Sebowski]

What about Nogueira taking Lesnar's place to fight Carwin? Or is Nog already scheduled?

Nog isn't schedule and is dying to fight quickly. He wants to stay active. This would be a great replacement if they don't move it to Jan 2nd. Carwin and Lesnar have been building bad blood for a while now though so I bet they just move it.

[ZoEd]

No need to act like a douche and start throwing out "man crush" accusations.

My venom is that the judges dropped the ball like Braylon Edwards...on a huge title fight. Did you see Hamilton's fight card giving round 4 to Machida? Even the extreme minority that thinks Machida won the fight admits that he lost the last two rounds.

Aside from my beef with the "you have to beat the champ" nonsense, the judges not only were "a little biased" toward the champ, they took it a step further and gave the fight to the champ who got completely outmatched for at least three rounds. I've gone back and watched the fight and it's not a thin margin of victory either. Rua, without a doubt, did enough to warrant taking the belt from Machida. It's that simple.

As for the numbers, no one is asking for the fight to be scored based on a computer, but the percentage of strikes landed is a telltale sign of who was more dominant in a bout. If Machida scored a lot of takedowns and/or submission attempts and controlled Rua on the ground, then those numbers wouldn't mean so much. But in a bout that was fought completely on the feet, the numbers are evidence as to who scored the most points.

Not sure where you get that "many didn't" see the last three rounds for Rua. Most everyone scored the fight for Shogun. The majority of editors at Sherdog scored Rounds 1, 3, 4, and 5 for Shogun, SI.com scored the fight for Shogun, even Dana White said that he thought Shogun won the fight.

It's pretty clear to most people, and I don't understand why anyone would think it's ok to for a 5-round fight to go down the tubes like this or for judges to be even "a little biased." These guys are competitors that train hard and diet and train some more, generally putting their bodies through hell for months at a time to prepare for a fight and it's a damn shame when a judge ****s up the call or when a ref *ahem* Steve Mazzagatti *ahem* makes bad decisions to rob them of their hard work.

Not trying to be a douche but it obviously struck a nerve. Seriously, I've never seen you so pissed about a match so I figured you have some type of infatuation with the dude. It's a freaking fight, in no way shape or form did it affect the hole in the ozone or cause children to starve.

How many fights have went the opposite way than you thought it should? So Dana White and the Sherdog editors agree with you, consider yourself on the same level as them in regards to MMA judging. I saw it differently. Rua did damage with leg kicks, however Machida wasn't limping around the ring like Rampage. There was no obvious damage until round 4 and 5. You keep failing to mention the kicks that Machida also landed along with strikes of his own. IMO neither fighter dominated the other. Neither ever looked in danger of being hurt. That being said, in a championship fight you'd expect a fighter to at least put the other in danger to sway the judges.

I have mad respect for the torture the fighters go through preparing for a fight. It sucks when it goes to decision and the fighter you like or want to see win doesn't, I get it. Rua shouldn't have let it go to the judges, neither of them should have.

As for the numbers, again I think they're slightly skewed considering 80+ strikes were landed by Rua and I have yet to be able to count them by watching the fight.

[#98QBKiller]

Not trying to be a douche but it obviously struck a nerve. Seriously, I've never seen you so pissed about a match so I figured you have some type of infatuation with the dude. It's a freaking fight, in no way shape or form did it affect the hole in the ozone or cause children to starve.

How many fights have went the opposite way than you thought it should? So Dana White and the Sherdog editors agree with you, consider yourself on the same level as them in regards to MMA judging. I saw it differently. Rua did damage with leg kicks, however Machida wasn't limping around the ring like Rampage. There was no obvious damage until round 4 and 5. You keep failing to mention the kicks that Machida also landed along with strikes of his own. IMO neither fighter dominated the other. Neither ever looked in danger of being hurt. That being said, in a championship fight you'd expect a fighter to at least put the other in danger to sway the judges.

I have mad respect for the torture the fighters go through preparing for a fight. It sucks when it goes to decision and the fighter you like or want to see win doesn't, I get it. Rua shouldn't have let it go to the judges, neither of them should have.

As for the numbers, again I think they're slightly skewed considering 80+ strikes were landed by Rua and I have yet to be able to count them by watching the fight.

You're right, I don't usually get that worked up over the result of a fight. But I am pretty passionate about the sport, not unlike my passion for the Redskins, except I don't have one entity that I pull for week in and week out like with football so there's usually not that kind of sting when the outcome is one way or another.

I guess it's just a simple matter of opinion when it comes down to you and I. But I just hate to see a man work so hard, come out with a cerebral gameplan, execute it, and get (from my standpoint) robbed of that hard work.

And I'm not denying that Machida had some nice kicks and exchanges of his own. He did. Rua's stomach and side looked like a raw steak just like Machida's did. Machida didn't get his leg messed up quite like Rampage did, but there was a point (I think it was in round 3) when Rua connected with a couple of really hard kicks that seemed to slow Machida down for the rest of the bout.

We may hear it all the time, but you're correct when you say that neither fighter should've left the fight in the judges hands. I thought that from a gameplanning standpoint, Rua came in with the right idea. He knew that his striking style would only hurt him against Machida, so he came in and played Machida's own game and tried to out point him, Karate-style. I think he also wanted to test Machida on the ground, but his takedown attempts were stuffed so he had to stick to playing the point card and ultimately for whatever reason it hurt him.

As far as the numbers go, I don't have a hard time believing that those #'s are accurate and I'll have to go back and try and keep an eye on them. If Shogun threw 149 strike attempts in 25 minutes, that would mean he attempted a little under 6 strikes a minute, which doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility at all considering all of the kicks that were thrown. Same for Machida, if he threw 116 strikes in 25 minutes, then he threw a little over 5.5 strikes per minute. I know Strikeforce uses CompuStrike to show the fans the number immediately after matches and I've never really doubted their accuracy but it couldn't hurt to double check.

[#98QBKiller]

Looks like it will officially be postponed to Jan. 02. And Tito vs. Forrest will take over as the main event for the Nov 21st card.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news?slug=ki-lesnar102609&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Illness forces Lesnar postponement

Brock Lesnar, the Ultimate Fighting Championship’s massive heavyweight titleholder, was forced to withdraw Monday from his highly anticipated Nov. 21 title defense in Las Vegas against Shane Carwin.

Carwin, via his Twitter feed, said the fight will be rescheduled for UFC 108 on Jan. 2.

UFC president Dana White confirmed the news to Yahoo! Sports. White said Lesnar has been ill for more than three-and-a-half weeks and unable to train. With the bout at UFC 106 less than a month away, Lesnar was forced to postpone the title defense.

“He said he’s never been this sick in his life,” White said. “He said it’s been going on for a long time and he just hasn’t been able to shake it.”

Lesnar’s co-manager, Brian Stegeman, said he does not know whether Lesnar had H1N1, commonly known as swine flu, and that he is beyond the stage at which he could be tested for the virus. He said Lesnar had upper respiratory

issues, fever and extreme fatigue.

“Honestly, he’s been sick since the beginning of this camp and he’s had to take days off throughout,” Stegeman said.

The fight matches two of the biggest and most powerful heavyweights in the UFC. Lesnar (4-1), a former World Wrestling Entertainment star, was a junior college and NCAA Division I wrestling champion. Carwin is a former Division II national wrestling champion.

Both men weigh around 295 pounds and cut weight to make the heavyweight division’s 265-pound limit.

Carwin (11-0), who made several appearances in Los Angeles on Saturday to promote the fight, was clearly disappointed at getting the news.

“My heart just sank, as you can imagine,” Carwin told Yahoo! Sports upon hearing the news about the fight postponement.

The UFC announced Monday afternoon it will move the previously scheduled Tito Ortiz vs. Forrest Griffin fight, a rematch of an epic 2006 contest won by Ortiz on a controversial split decision, into the Nov. 21 main event slot

Stegeman said Lesnar just took an entire week off from training with no appreciable improvement. He said Lesnar’s head mixed martial arts coach, Marty Morgan, didn’t think he’d have enough training time to properly prepare.

“We kept thinking that he’d get better and be back at it, but it finally got to a point here where we were looking at a situation where Brock would have just two weeks to train for this fight.

“That’s just not fair to him. There’s no way a two-week training camp is even close to being fair to him and we all realized that. We kept hoping Brock would respond and get better, but it just lingered.”

Editor’s note: This is an updated version of an article that appeared on Yahoo! Sports on Oct. 26.

[Slacky McSlackAss]

So that would be on the same card as the Anderson Vitor fight and the Rashad Thiago fight aswell.

Edited October 26, 2009 by Slacky McSlackAss

[#98QBKiller]

Yep, that's going to be an epic card.

[ZoEd]

You're right, I don't usually get that worked up over the result of a fight. But I am pretty passionate about the sport, not unlike my passion for the Redskins, except I don't have one entity that I pull for week in and week out like with football so there's usually not that kind of sting when the outcome is one way or another.

I guess it's just a simple matter of opinion when it comes down to you and I. But I just hate to see a man work so hard, come out with a cerebral gameplan, execute it, and get (from my standpoint) robbed of that hard work.

And I'm not denying that Machida had some nice kicks and exchanges of his own. He did. Rua's stomach and side looked like a raw steak just like Machida's did. Machida didn't get his leg messed up quite like Rampage did, but there was a point (I think it was in round 3) when Rua connected with a couple of really hard kicks that seemed to slow Machida down for the rest of the bout.

We may hear it all the time, but you're correct when you say that neither fighter should've left the fight in the judges hands. I thought that from a gameplanning standpoint, Rua came in with the right idea. He knew that his striking style would only hurt him against Machida, so he came in and played Machida's own game and tried to out point him, Karate-style. I think he also wanted to test Machida on the ground, but his takedown attempts were stuffed so he had to stick to playing the point card and ultimately for whatever reason it hurt him.

As far as the numbers go, I don't have a hard time believing that those #'s are accurate and I'll have to go back and try and keep an eye on them. If Shogun threw 149 strike attempts in 25 minutes, that would mean he attempted a little under 6 strikes a minute, which doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility at all considering all of the kicks that were thrown. Same for Machida, if he threw 116 strikes in 25 minutes, then he threw a little over 5.5 strikes per minute. I know Strikeforce uses CompuStrike to show the fans the number immediately after matches and I've never really doubted their accuracy but it couldn't hurt to double check.

Brother I don't question your knowledge and passion for the sport and I'm typically on board with your assesment of most fights. I've watched the fight three times just to see how everyone could call it for Rua and I still see Machida winning the first three rounds albeit very, very close. I think in the long run Rua hurt Machida more than the other way around but, it didn't come until late in the fight and IMO too little too late.

Again, as for the numbers; I don't doubt that he threw that many punches but I still didn't see 80+ connecting. Especially against Machida.

[#98QBKiller]

Brother I don't question your knowledge and passion for the sport and I'm typically on board with your assesment of most fights. I've watched the fight three times just to see how everyone could call it for Rua and I still see Machida winning the first three rounds albeit very, very close. I think in the long run Rua hurt Machida more than the other way around but, it didn't come until late in the fight and IMO too little too late.

Again, as for the numbers; I don't doubt that he threw that many punches but I still didn't see 80+ connecting. Especially against Machida.

I hear you man. Like I said I think it's just a matter of opinion at this point, when it comes down to fans like us. The fighters have made the fight and the judges have made their calls and apparently Machida and Shogun will have an immediate chance to go at it again according to Dana White. Sorry if I sounded like a dick about it, but like I said, I get pretty excited about the sport from time to time...especially when the Redskins look like ass lol.