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SUNSTONE

By SUNSTONE
in The Tailgate

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Chachie

Chachie

Posted
Posted
MMA guys are tougher than boxers? I think we can all put that to bed now after Ray Mercer who's way past his prime beats Tim Silva in seconds in an MMA match.

I have become a much bigger fan of MMA than boxing over the last 5 years but I'm not dumb enough to think that a boxer can't climb in the cage and KO an MMAist. Neither of these guys represents the best in their sport but it shouldn't surprise anyone that Ray Mercer still has a mean punch. Timmay was dumb to wade right in like that. I still say Mercer has no business in a cage and I'll continue to say it until I see him do something other than throw a punch (what we already know he can do) or get choked out. He's fought a total of maybe 60 seconds in MMA when you combine his 2 fights. He beat Sylvia (who despite his recent woes should have been able to handle Mercer) and he lost to a rookie in Kimbo. Kudos to Ray. Maybe he'll make something of this... but I doubt it.

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THE OUTSIDER

THE OUTSIDER

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Posted
Thanks for posting the Sylvia link. Lololol.

If you think Tim Sylvia represents the best of MMA heavyweights, you are insane and ridiculous.

No, but he is an MMA fighter and once a champion. Roy Jones does not represent the best in boxing anymore, but if he and Anderson Silva were to ever box, Jones would destroy him.

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d0ublestr0ker0ll

d0ublestr0ker0ll

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No, but he is an MMA fighter and once a champion. Roy Jones does not represent the best in boxing anymore, but if he and Anderson Silva were to ever box, Jones would destroy him.

This Sylvia loss has really brought out the best boxing fans.

C'mon dude, the boxing vs. MMA debate is so narrowminded. Newsflash, people have come in to MMA with a background in one martial art before, and won. Wrestlers, jiu jitsu fighters, kickboxers. Tell Roy Jones to have a Muay Thai kickboxing match against Anderson, tell him to have a jiu jitsu match with Demian Maia, tell him to wrestle George St. Pierre. It's all relative. Boxing isn't any better than those arts when it comes to MMA. It's simply a tool in the toolbox, it works for certain jobs.

Edited by d0ublestr0ker0ll
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Chachie

Chachie

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This Sylvia loss has really brought out the best boxing fans.

C'mon dude, the boxing vs. MMA debate is so narrowminded. Newsflash, people have come in to MMA with a background in one martial art before, and won. Wrestlers, jiu jitsu fighters, kickboxers. Tell Roy Jones to have a Muay Thai kickboxing match against Anderson, tell him to have a jiu jitsu match with Demian Maia, tell him to wrestle George St. Pierre. It's all relative. Boxing isn't any better than those arts when it comes in MMA. It's simply a tool in the toolbox, it works for certain jobs.

I'm a little annoyed by Outsider's commentary but for today I don't think we can argue with him. If you'd posed the question to me, "What if Ray Mercer fought an MMA match with Tim Sylvia?" I'd have said Ray Mercer was gonna die. :)

Timmay was so so stupid to give Mercer the one shot he needed. Tim had height, reach, a deeper arsenal, and youth on his side and did the one thing anyone would tell him not to do against an old clubber.. He walked right in and stood there.

"D'oh" doesn't begin to make clear how frigging dumb Tim Sylvia is. Randy got him that way, Fedor got him that way. What does he think Ray Mercer- a real boxer is gonna do? Oh the humanity... the stupidity.

However, I will say this last thing to Outsider: We didn't see you here when Kimbo Slice made Mercer his toady. Mighty opportunistic mouth on you.

Edited by Chachie
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d0ublestr0ker0ll

d0ublestr0ker0ll

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But Chachie, I didn't hear anything about jiu jitsu being "better than MMA" when Palhares and Maia won. Didn't hear about Judo being "better than MMA" when Parisyan was doing well. A specialist in a martial art won a mixed martial arts fight. It happens every event. The difference is that a few boxing fans are insecure about there being a new combat sport in America.

Certainly the outcome of this fight was surprising, but Mercer knows boxing like Fedor knows Sambo or Lyoto Machida knows Karate. It works when you're awesome at it. It works even better when you're fighting, as you pointed out, a dumb ass.

Edited by d0ublestr0ker0ll
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Chachie

Chachie

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But Chachie, I didn't hear anything about jiu jitsu being "better than MMA" when Palhares and Maia won. Didn't hear about Judo being "better than MMA" when Parisyan was doing well. A specialist in a martial art won a mixed martial arts fight. It happens every event. The difference is that a few boxing fans are insecure about there being a new combat sport in America.

Certainly the outcome of this fight was surprising, but Mercer knows boxing like Fedor knows Sambo or Lyoto Machida knows Karate. It works when you're awesome at it. It works even better when you're fighting, as you pointed out, a dumb ass.

All true.

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Sebowski

Sebowski

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Posted
But Chachie, I didn't hear anything about jiu jitsu being "better than MMA" when Palhares and Maia won. Didn't hear about Judo being "better than MMA" when Parisyan was doing well. A specialist in a martial art won a mixed martial arts fight. It happens every event. The difference is that a few boxing fans are insecure about there being a new combat sport in America.

Certainly the outcome of this fight was surprising, but Mercer knows boxing like Fedor knows Sambo or Lyoto Machida knows Karate. It works when you're awesome at it. It works even better when you're fighting, as you pointed out, a dumb ass.

Great points in this and your last post. How long would a Klitchko last in a BJJ match with Mir?

If anything Outsider is just bringing to the forefront how one-dimensional boxers are. The fact that there are MMA fighters who have legitimate pro boxing experience and no full-time boxers with any pro experience in other combat sports says a lot. I've been saying for years that people need to stop referring to boxers as fighters. They are not fighters. They are boxers, and a boxing match is just that, a match, not a "fight". I am a boxing fan, btw. Grew up loving it. Still want to, but they are making it hard.

Is it too late to get Mercer on TUF 10?

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THE OUTSIDER

THE OUTSIDER

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Posted (edited)

I would say the samething if a MMA fighter beat a legitimate boxer in a boxing ring. The fact of the matter is that a boxer SHOULD NOT beat someone of multiple fighting skills IMO, but some "KNOWN" boxers have had reasonable success in MMA. I'll like to see a MMA fighter have reasonable success in boxing. It WON'T happen.

Edited by THE OUTSIDER
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d0ublestr0ker0ll

d0ublestr0ker0ll

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I would say the samething if a MMA fighter beat a legitimate boxer in a boxing ring. The fact of the matter is that a boxer SHOULD NOT beat someone of multiple fighting skills IMO, but some "KNOWN" boxers have had reasonable success in MMA. I'll like to see a MMA fighter have reasonable success in boxing. It WON'T happen.

Just try to imagine this family tree. MMA is the newest member, the branches are all of it's ancestors. A plethora of martial arts, including boxing. MMA is a meeting place for all of them.

By daring an MMA fighter to box, you're telling someone that knows how to beat the **** out of you in 50 different ways to limit themselves to punching.

The fact of the matter is that wrestlers win in MMA, kickboxers win in MMA, grapplers win in MMA, and boxers can too. But you won't hear hardcore wrestling or jiu jitsu fans blast MMA when one of their specialists wins. The only reason boxing fans are throwing a parade is because they don't like MMA's growing popularity, so they argue that punching is more effective than all-around fighting.

Really? Even when boxers hug and there's an opportunity to knee or toss your opponent to the ground? Would you "break" if your life was on the line?

Technically speaking, Tim went in there and utilized boxing against a former boxing champ. If he utilized jiu jitsu against a jiu jitsu champ or wrestling against a wrestling champ he would have gotten just as embarassed.

Edited by d0ublestr0ker0ll
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#98QBKiller

#98QBKiller

Posted
Posted

The MMA vs. boxing argument is tired and worn out. You can't tell me that because Ray Mercer KO'd Tim Sylvia that "boxing is better than MMA" or whatever your point is. Sylvia is an overrated figure in MMA because he dominated the UFC's HW division when there was no real competition other than Andrei Arlovski, the man with tissue for a chin.

Ray Mercer got beat down to the ground and submitted by a Kimbo Slice that had only trained MMA for a year and I didn't hear people wetting themselves about how that proves that MMA is better than boxing.

Ray is old and past his prime in boxing, he sucks at MMA and beat Sylvia because Sylvia is slow and thought he could box with him. It didn't prove anything.

And Big Mike, I'm ready for my new sig...I had Wandy winning rounds 2 & 3 but I can see a case for both fighters. I'd actually like to see this rematch because it was a good fight but I'm not sure what's going to happen. Wandy is demanding a rematch and he's supposed to meet with Dana sometime this week.

Anyway, give me that sig!!

Other than that I liked the 3-4 main fights.

Cro-Cop looked good and even knocked down Al Turk before the accidental eye-poke. So I think he would've finished him regardless. He looked just like he should have against Al-Turk, but what he did to Dana was a ***** move unless he goes into Dream and fights Alistair or Jerome LeBanner to prove that he's not scared of the talent level in the UFC's HW division these days.

Cain Valezquez looked awesome in his fight. Kongo rocked him a few times at the beginning of rounds 1 & 2 I believe, but Cain showed a good chin and he took Kongo down at will and beat on him all fight. Kongo simply had no answer.

I want to see Cain vs. Shane next.

I already mentioned the main even but Wandy looked like he was fighting smarter than he has in a long time. He didn't throw a bunch of open haymakers until later in the fight. Good to see him actually show some defense. And Rich looked to have a good chin and good counter striking. Great bout, I had Wandy winning but like I said, it was just that close. I'd love to see this fight again.

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lovetoaster

lovetoaster

Posted
Posted
Boxing>MMA

MMA has too much grappling :yawnee:

The UFC had seven of the top 10 PPV events of 2008, boxing had two. That's all I am saying.

Boxing has plenty of grappling too. They are just standing when they are doing it and it is not supposed to be a part of the sport.

I love MMA, I love boxing. They are different sports. I will say that boxing has a lot of work to do to excite what is a dwindling fan base. I still get fired up for a big boxing match, for me, there is nothing like it. But there are fewer and fewer of those fights and I find myself watching fewer bouts because there are very few I am interested in watching anymore.

Anyways, this is not the Boxing/MMA pissing match thread.

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Special K

Special K

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Posted
Please explain it to me (no, really, I'm curious).

I used to think grappling was boring too...I liked the old-school UFC's that were just totally out of control. Then I met a wrestler who helped me see the light in regards to grappling, lol.

To me now, it's interesting to watch the guys transitioning through moves to gain a better position against their opponent while their opponent counters and is trying to do the same to them. It's like a high stakes chess match.

I think this wiki entry gives a good overall view...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grappling

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