Anything MMA, except thumb wrestling

[NoCalMike]

Yeah so as I guessed a close round 2 that went to McGregor on all scorecards was the difference.

Look, we can debate meaningless takedowns all night cause I've certainly voiced my displeasure on how they have been scored in the past but you can't change the rules from fight to fight based on who the fighters are. IMO, that last takedown by Nate won the fight for him. It was a close fight but I feel he won it. Still at the bar posting on my phone so I will elaborate later.

[Morrison J]

Absolutely no way should the 3rd have been scored a 10-8 ffs. Should've been a unanimous points win for McGregor. 

Edited August 21, 2016 by Morrison J

[smoreese]

Everyone on earth should have known that when it went to the judges they would give it to McGregor. They had to have the 3rd fight! I had Nate 3-2 but I am a Nate fan, I would have no problem with a draw. 1 more min in round 3 and McGregor would have been out, same in round 5. McGregor was never going to finish Nate, I will give him credit he had a good game plan with the leg kicks. But he talked all that crap about knocking out Nate and then he becomes a point fighter and ran most of the 2nd half of the fight. Biggest weakness of the Diaz brothers is leg kicks and not being able to get take downs against top guys. If Nate got him to the ground it would have been game over, but McGregor had very good take down defense on the fence tonight.

[Morrison J]

The conspiracy theories on here 

[Destino]

11 minutes ago, Morrison J said:

Absolutely no way should the 3rd have been scored a 10-8 ffs. Should've been a unanimous points win for McGregor. 

Scoring it a 10-8 round is far more reasonable than awarding the 2nd round to McGregor.  He gassed that round and the fight turned on him.  He started back peddling, not to defend but simply to breath, and Nate took control entirely by the end of the round.  It carried over into the beating he took in the 3rd in which Mcgregor did nothing but run away and get hit.  Literally run away I might add, which is probably why he got 10-8.  Running away should be penalized.  Doing it several times, should be penalized severely. 

The only reason this discussion is happening is because Nate couldn't see in the 4th. 

 

[smoreese]

Tell me what I said was wrong? You have most people in here thing Diaz won, most people in the bar I was at thought diaz won. I thought it was a great fight, I would have given it a draw. It was a razor think margin, but to me the guy that almost won the fight twice beats a point fighter who was running. Octagon control is supposed to count! You have some people in here that think defending a take down wins you a round lol

[Morrison J]

17 minutes ago, Destino said:

Scoring it a 10-8 round is far more reasonable than awarding the 2nd round to McGregor.  He gassed that round and the fight turned on him.  He started back peddling, not to defend but simply to breath, and Nate took control entirely by the end of the round.  It carried over into the beating he took in the 3rd in which Mcgregor did nothing but run away and get hit.  Literally run away I might add, which is probably why he got 10-8.  Running away should be penalized.  Doing it several times, should be penalized severely. 

The only reason this discussion is happening is because Nate couldn't see in the 4th. 

 

Ridiculous. 

McGregor completely out-fought Diaz for 4 mins of the 2nd round and started to gas a bit in the last minute. You can't let the last minute of a round cloud your judgement. I'd advise rewatching the 2nd round and pretending it isn't McGregor fighting. He blatantly won it. 

McGregor landed clean a lot in the 3rd too btw. He lost the round but it was never in a million years a 10-8. Better argument that the 1st round was a 10-8 when he put on an absolute clinic. 

Also blaming the loss on the the fact Diaz couldn't see is one of the worst excuses I've ever heard in my life. You do realise the reason he couldn't see was because of the amount of times McGregor landed clean on him? Blood was pumping from all the damage McGregor did picking off punches. Should give credit to McGregor for doing damage to Diaz like that not using it as a way to criticise his win. 

 

13 minutes ago, smoreese said:

Tell me what I said was wrong? You have most people in here thing Diaz won, most people in the bar I was at thought diaz won. Octagon control is supposed to count! 

This thread is extremely anti-McGregor. Of course most think Diaz won.

If Octagon control counts then McGregor won rounds 1 and 2 by an absolute landslide. Completely dictated both those rounds. 

Edited August 21, 2016 by Morrison J

[Morrison J]

"McGregor was busting Diaz up for most of the 2nd round, but I saw Conor breathe heavy towards the end, so I scored it for Diaz" - Diaz fans

[smoreese]

Sorry you sound like a serious McGregor fan boy. A slight graze will open up Nate with all the scar tissue he has. I give McGregor credit he had to fight perfect to squeak out a decision. The leg kicks set up his punching for the first 2 rounds, he had Nate thinking about them a lot. After that Nate said screw this and moved forward a lot more and pushed the pace. He need to work on his double leg take downs, one take down and McGregor was done. I think it was a great fight, a total war but McGregor talking all that smack and then running is classic! McGregor has great striking and a big counter left but he isn't dominate at 155lbs. He will be top 10 but I think he will lose most of the fights against the top 5. If he ever fights at 145lbs it will only be one more time against Aldo. Funny thing is Edgar has the best style to beat McGregor in my opinion of all the 145lbs.

[Taylor703]

15 minutes ago, Morrison J said:

"McGregor was busting Diaz up for most of the 2nd round, but I saw Conor breathe heavy towards the end, so I scored it for Diaz" - Diaz fans

Come on J, you're Irish lol. You're clearly as biased as anyone in this thread. You were completely devastated when Conor lost the first fight so it's not fair that you simply think we're all Conor haters when you're just as biased as anyone in here. 

And Rumble is probably the most destructive fighter I've ever seen in MMA. It still blows my mind that this is the same guy I watched lose to Josh Koscheck. Unbelievable talent. 

[Dr. Do Itch Big]

47 minutes ago, smoreese said:

Tell me what I said was wrong? You have most people in here thing Diaz won, most people in the bar I was at thought diaz won. I thought it was a great fight, I would have given it a draw. It was a razor think margin, but to me the guy that almost won the fight twice beats a point fighter who was running. Octagon control is supposed to count! You have some people in here that think defending a take down wins you a round lol

Defending a takedown is zero points because it doesn't equal offense. The person defending the takedown is on the defensive. He literally does no damage, so why should the person defense be credited? Aggression is one of the scoring points in the fight system. By applying take downs you are being the aggressive fighter. If you can defend takedowns and lit the other fight than ya you should win, but if you defend all night and do nothing then all you did was fight with no offense and you should lose. Nate won that fight. He won that second, his ****ty corner man didn't do anything to help Nates night and he couldn't see and Conor took round 4. Regardless of I had Nate winning 2,3 and 5 

[NoCalMike]

If anyone is still up, care to summarize what both fighters said in the octagon after the fight?  The bar I was at had pretty awful audio mixing, the dialog was damn near silent.

Also I think this may be a fight that can be re-watched and dissected many times to get a better judgement of who won.  Especially that 2nd round.  While I feel Nate won the fight 48-47, I am not prepared to say it was anything more than a "questionable" decision for Conor.  The bar I was in had little to no fight audio so I didn't really hear what Rogan and Goldberg were hyping versus overlooking/ignoring so that usual factor of bias was out the window.  It did seem most people in the bar regardless of who they were rooting for though Diaz won a close decision.  I go back to the first fight and the original narrative that came out of it which was that Conor was dominating until he gassed, but a single rewatch totally discredited that.   I am even more eager to re-watch this one.

[Dr. Do Itch Big]

I think Diaz said something about a broken foot. 

[Morrison J]

5 hours ago, Taylor703 said:

Come on J, you're Irish lol. You're clearly as biased as anyone in this thread. You were completely devastated when Conor lost the first fight so it's not fair that you simply think we're all Conor haters when you're just as biased as anyone in here. 

Not really. I've criticised McGregor on here a few times. I've a pretty open mind about him I reckon. The hate for McGregor on here is definitely stronger than my liking for him.

Just not having the fact some of you aren't giving him the 2nd though. It's literally insane giving that to Diaz when he gets dominated for 4 of the 5 minutes including getting knocked down twice. I'd advise all of ye to watch it again.

[Bonez3]

9 hours ago, smoreese said:

Tell me what I said was wrong? You have most people in here thing Diaz won, most people in the bar I was at thought diaz won. I thought it was a great fight, I would have given it a draw. It was a razor think margin, but to me the guy that almost won the fight twice beats a point fighter who was running. Octagon control is supposed to count! You have some people in here that think defending a take down wins you a round lol

Defending a takedown doesn't win you a round. Same as knocking you're opponent on mat multiple times displays the better fighter. If Diaz could have checked the leg kicks and shown any fighting skill, which is evident he doesn't have, that would be analogous to Connor blocking the takedowns. It wouldn't by itself win him the fight or rounds, but show that his opponents strategy is ineffective and coupled with other attacks culminate to a win. 

 

Connor abused Diaz' legs, how is that not the aggressor. Diaz leg looked like a piece of meat Rocky was hitting after the match.

 

To me, Connor's ability to not let Diaz get anything substantial from the clinches and that coupled with Connor ability to land leg kick after kick is the difference in the fight. 

 

Connor laid him out twice in 2nd round demonstrating his superiority. Nate showed his toughness and stamina, but because you 'almost KO'd' your opponent you don't go 10-7 round. 

 

All the judges had the same winner for the rounds. Seriously, Connor knocked Nate down in the 2nd. Nate hurt Connor in 2nd. 

Edited August 21, 2016 by Bonez3

[NoCalMike]

I don't think knocking someone down necessarily shows superiority in striking or technique, it shows a different skill set which McGregor obviously has.  We all knew he had the bigger one punch power which he displayed in both fights.  Nate doesn't have the kind of power that will drop someone off their feet with a single punch, although he has indeed wobbled guys with perfectly timed shots when caught advancing forward. (Nick Diaz vs. Paul Daley is another example of this contrast) McGregor knocked Diaz down but he didn't follow it up and try to capitalize.  The same way guys scoring takedowns but then basically just laying on their opponent brings up the "meaningless takedown" conversation.  This isn't a boxing match so you don't score rounds automatically necessarily for knockdowns like you would in boxing. 

I would never call a takedown "meaningless" it's more a question of how much should it factor into scoring a round, especially if the opponent gets right back up.  When Nate took Conor down in Round 5, it could only be considered "meaningless" due to what little time was left on the clock, but if you look at how they landed, and what position Conor found himself in at the bottom. dude was likely in big trouble had the fight had another :30 of round to go.  I know in reality that doesn't matter, but I am just trying to give some context into the notion of a "meaningless takedown" and when I think one should be looked as just that and when one shouldn't but that is something that there is no official consensus or rule on so every judge is going to approach kind of thing with their own personal philosophy which is another reason I think they really need to take a look at getting more specific on how to judge MMA fights.

When it comes to Nate and the Diaz brothers as a whole, I guess it amazes me how competitive they remain against opponents when they seemingly don't even game plan for them.  They just do what they do.  They train cardio like a mofo, spar, and roll on the mat and then it's go time.  I saw zero adjustments from Nate in the 2nd fight, while Conor had a very smart game plan and really stuck to it and even with that the fight was pretty razor thin close.  Like I said before I had it for Diaz 48-47, but I don't consider this decision any kind of robbery.

I like both Nate & Conor, (I think most people do actually, and it was more of Conor's "I'm bigger than my business obligations" attitude that got people salty on him for a little while) and I actually think the result of this fight was the best possible outcome for the UFC.  Conor avenges his loss, but it wasn't in some kind of dominating fashion to where people would lean to think the first fight was a fluke win for Nate.  It leaves the fighting audience wanting a third fight and probably has everyone split on who would win it.  That is more than Zuffa could ask for coming off this PPV.  Now, a trilogy fight isn't going to feel like some kind of forced business decision like some others in the past did which were put together on name brand power only. 

Edited August 21, 2016 by NoCalMike

[Bonez3]

The takedown argument is actually moot because Nate won round 5, so, really not worth discussion

[Malapropismic Depository]

13 hours ago, Destino said:

 Conor had several moment in that fight where he literally ran away. 

 

How is that even possible ?

Conor backed away several times, but he was way too gassed to literally run away, repeatedly.

Eh, maybe you intentionally exagerrated, and maybe I was nit-picking. So, sorry, no big deal.

Edited August 21, 2016 by Malapropismic Depository

[NoCalMike]

When Conor was walking away/dis-engaging, it really reminded me of Condit's strategy against Nick Diaz.  Everyone remember that fight?  Whenever Nick would connect and/or just about back up Condit into the cage where Nick would likely look to clinch and bust him up some, Condit would pretty much turn his back and do the little slow walk/job to the other side of the octagon to escape danger.  

Nate bringing up Pride's yellow card system after the fight cracked me up. Oh how I miss Pride and their superior way to judge fights.

[Bonez3]

Yea- The idea of 'running' is far fetched. No doubt he was buying time, he was exhausted. To me, no different than laying on mat after being clocked as a defensive strategy. Diaz' yellow card comment could apply to that, hardly that different. You are compromised and are taking the best tact to survive, wheher that be on your back or dancing for a minute. Connor's gestures to tell him to get up are just as demeaning as Nate's pointing when he was avoiding contact. 

 

The next best thing Nate said was the countless excuses he insisted weren't excuses. Classic

[Dr. Do Itch Big]

1,2, and 5 Nick 2,3, and 5 Nate

[NoCalMike]

42 minutes ago, Bonez3 said:

Yea- The idea of 'running' is far fetched. No doubt he was buying time, he was exhausted. To me, no different than laying on mat after being clocked as a defensive strategy. Diaz' yellow card comment could apply to that, hardly that different. You are compromised and are taking the best tact to survive, wheher that be on your back or dancing for a minute. Connor's gestures to tell him to get up are just as demeaning as Nate's pointing when he was avoiding contact. 

 

The next best thing Nate said was the countless excuses he insisted weren't excuses. Classic

Eh no, I wouldn't call Nate pulling guard the same thing.  He is in a defensive position in case Conor tries to follow up the knock down with ground and pound.  You have to defend yourself in that position, he wasn't laying on the ground taking a rest.  Conor motioning for him to get up was not taunting it was just something fighters do to say they are not going to take it to the ground and letting them know they are allowing them to get back up.  Otherwise if Nate didn't wait, he could risk getting bombarded trying to stand back up.  It needs to be understood that fighters with a BJJ base are comfortable fighting off their backs.  We don't see it a lot in UFC anymore since the UFC has turned into such a strike driven brand of MMA, but guys who come from specific backgrounds and disciplines fight differently.

[Bonez3]

Yea- I'm saying it's analogous. Both positions are born from being compromised. Connor's scurry around the ring was no longer than 5-10 seconds. The time spent on back about the same. He's staying on his back because any other move or attempt to fight would endanger him. There was clearly a time when Nate knew nothing was coming and he stayed on his back, ala taking the full 10 second count. Connor was well away from him and he just stayed down for a few moments. That spurred Connor coxing him to get up. Connor needed a 5-10 second break so he danced out. Hardly running as it's been stated. He was banged up and employed a strategy to re-establish himself. 

Edited August 21, 2016 by Bonez3

[Taylor703]

Connor was running from him. The idea that he wasn't after all of us watched the same fight is ridiculous. 

[NoCalMike]

Whether we want to call it running or not, Conor was disengaging from the fight.  When Nate was on the ground, his eyes were on Conor every moment to anticipate and defend himself. There was no illusion that perhaps Nate was just chillin' looking to escape something.  Conor turned his back and jogged away.  If not for Nate chasing after him and doing the finger point thing to entertain and taunt it probably comes off looking a lot worse.  Of course, if I am Nate instead of doing that I probably try to connect on a head kick or run right behind him and take his back because IMO that is a better form of retribution for it.