jbooma Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 So let me get this straight a QB that has been averaging a 75 rating his entire career is going to improve his rating to a 99 on your baseless projections. If you want to use actual stats, use the first game in where he had a rating of 49 and what he did in the preseason. If we want to project correctly then he would have had 16 pics and 0 tds. I did that by multiplying his only start by 16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ_Skins Posted March 19, 2006 Author Share Posted March 19, 2006 the point is he still fumbled. - Brunnel may have fumbled "more" but, that's because Ramsey couldn't fumble sitting on thge bench.Nice try though No, I'm sorry...Brunell fumbled more any way you slice it, raw numbers or the average number of times he fumbled in a game. Fumbles lost, fumbles recovered by his own team...Brunell holds a huge advantage. Ramsey throws more INTs, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrockster21 Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 the point is he still fumbled. - Brunnel may have fumbled "more" but, that's because Ramsey couldn't fumble sitting on thge bench.Nice try though I don't know...I'm pretty sure I saw Ramsey fumble a couple times from the bench...and he threw at least 5 picks from there as well..:laugh: :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ_Skins Posted March 19, 2006 Author Share Posted March 19, 2006 And Green doesn't?? Trent Green, ex-redskin who now plays for the Chiefs?? :laugh:Somebody notify Carl Petersen that his QB has a cannon for an arm..... Uh...yeah. I've watched Green play. He is a much better passer at this stage of his career than Brunell is. Less mobile, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvan1 Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 No, I'm sorry...Brunell fumbled more any way you slice it, raw numbers or the average number of times he fumbled in a game. Fumbles lost, fumbles recovered by his own team...Brunell holds a huge advantage. Ramsey throws more INTs, though. agreed. brunell is relatively overrated by us fans i think because fumbles are not taken into qb rating, and its easy to overloook when you see td passes v. ints. however, fumbles lost are worse than ints usually, as they come with better field position (qb fumbles in backfield usually.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimster Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 So let me get this straight a QB that has been averaging a 75 rating his entire career is going to improve his rating to a 99 on your baseless projections.If you want to use actual stats, use the first game in where he had a rating of 49 and what he did in the preseason. If we want to project correctly then he would have had 16 pics and 0 tds. I did that by multiplying his only start by 16 now, now. You know pre-season doesn't count if someone plays bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsCrunkin Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 One thing I'd have to say about all of this is that there really is no more argument. The stats are just guesses (poor ones at that) at what Ramsey would be doing. Hell for all we know he could have done better than the projected stats, that's in the eye of the beholder. In my honest opinion this is what Ramsey lacks, and you can see it from just the limited time under Gibbs and under Spurrier 1. Utter lack of ability to read a blitz and exploit it. 2. Little to no mobility in the pocket. 3. Slow decision making which causes receivers to get hit as soon as the ball gets there, causing drops and pissed off receivers over the middle. 4. Poor choices on how hard to throw the ball in situations. 5. Lastly I just think he has a terrible time letting mistakes go, it appears he dwells on interceptions and poor throws and let's it affect him throughout the game. These are all just things that I feel Gibbs sees when he watches Patrick. I just don't think he has that maturity level right now, nor do I know he will ever have it. I hope he proves me wrong, personality wise I think Patrick was one of the kindest and most dependable Redskins, but it was obvious the team felt his play was not what we were looking for so it's just time for everyone to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ_Skins Posted March 19, 2006 Author Share Posted March 19, 2006 Joe Gibbs was going to play Mark Brunell no matter what, and he really did stab Ramsey in the back to do it. That's my problem with the whole thing. It can't be explained away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselPwr44 Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 Joe Gibbs was going to play Mark Brunell no matter what, and he really did stab Ramsey in the back to do it. That's my problem with the whole thing. It can't be explained away. Translation: "I'm taking my ball and going home" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsCrunkin Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 Joe Gibbs was going to play Mark Brunell no matter what, and he really did stab Ramsey in the back to do it. That's my problem with the whole thing. It can't be explained away. Well if you want my opinion, he made the right move, Patrick looked completely ineffective and pathetic throughout the entire pre-season, and for his part in the first game while Mark had a great pre-season with players with far less talent than the starters. Gibbs knows best and I'm not about to turn my back on a guy that took a laughing stock team to the playoffs in his second season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimster Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 Joe Gibbs was going to play Mark Brunell no matter what, and he really did stab Ramsey in the back to do it. That's my problem with the whole thing. It can't be explained away. He worked with him for 2 years to try to coach him, Ramsey did not improve. - If Joe Gibbs just plain old didn't like Ramsey and wanted him gone he would have traded him prior to the 2004 season. Gibbs has always said the most important position on the team is QB, the 2nd most important is the back-up QB. He signed a guy named Doug Williams to what was at the time, an obsurd amount of money to a back-up QB, when we had Jay Schroeder entrenched as the starter. It seems Gibbs wasn't comfortable with Ramsey, so he added a vet. That vet outplayed the incumbent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmchairRedskin Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilgamesh Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 Translation: "I'm taking my ball and going home" :wish: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimster Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 the best post of this topic is here: http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2338826&postcount=190 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 DirK...."I just had this image of AJ looking something like John Malkovich from "In the Line of Fire" with all these pictures of Mark Brunell taped on his walls with bullseyes." we rarely agree sir..but that is the friggin funniest thing I have read in quite some time.....lmao...again...and again...and again!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted March 19, 2006 Share Posted March 19, 2006 After reading through all 7 pages & 269 posts, this little nugget, considering the source, speaks volumes. I salute you for coming late but reading the whole thread. It is quite the exhibition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butz65 Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Joe Gibbs was going to play Mark Brunell no matter what, and he really did stab Ramsey in the back to do it. That's my problem with the whole thing. It can't be explained away. Actually Gibbs did Ramsey a huge favor by trading him now for a lesser draft pick. If Gibbs really wanted to stab Ramsey in the back (which would make no sense - as a HOF head coach Gibbs has nothing to prove to anyone and no reason to be spiteful to any of his players) he would have kept Ramsey on the roster until training camp or until the end of the summer to see if his market value would go up. That would have kept Ramsey at a huge disadvantage in terms of starting for another team. Instead, Gibbs traded PR to a team early to give him a chance to compete for a starting position even though it may have cost the team a round or two in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamebreaker Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 I guess I'm way too late for this discussion, 'cause no way am I sifting through 23 pages of posts just so I can say,"Ramsey's gone. Let's move on." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tr1 Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Yikes! OMG...we just traded away our future to the Jets!!! OMG...OMG! We're doomed...I tell you...we're doomed. Now, back to regular programming... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskin Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 I guess I'm way too late for this discussion, 'cause no way am I sifting through 23 pages of posts just so I can say,"Ramsey's gone. Let's move on." If only it were that easy..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aghar Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 I only have two questions after not reading all 23 pages of this topic that has been covered 10,000 times. Of the 1900 or so posts AJ_Skins has, how many are ones related to this topic? Does AJ_Skins have some sort of "man crush" with PR that he is now having difficulty relinquishing? :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Consigliere Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 "Ramsey was a better QB for Joe Gibbs than Brunell was"Then how come Gibbs chose otherwise? He's gone. Perhaps you should follow. The first point is irrelevant. Gibbs chose Desmond Howard over Keenan McCardell, he isn't infallible. The second point is the argument of a really pathetic sort of fan. Anyone who can argue that contrary opinions merits the dismisal of someone as a fan has really gone over the edge. I hope you don't mean that. Like the thread starter I think Gibbs is as wrong at QB as he was about Howard, not that Ramsey will have a McCardell like rebirth, but rather that for whatever reason he's willing to tolerate inept QB play as long as it's a veteran playing inept football. Brunell put together a nice string of five or so quality games after the opening two wins (in which he played absolutely horrible in 6 of the 7 quarters he played), and then immediately went into a slow but rapidly deterioating decline. The decline did not begin with WR injuries (Patten was horse manure to begin with and this decline began two weeks before his injury against Tampa), and did not begin against the Giants, a quick recap of the Raiders, or Cardinals games, or a look at Gibbs unwillingness to use Brunell AT ALL against Philly in the first game, or against San Diego in the 4th quarter suggest Gibbs himself saw the problem as well. I do not understand what he see's in Brunell, and I don't think I ever will. I won't suggest that Ramsey is the answer. He never proved it, all he did was produce #'s slightly better #'s but that doesn't suggest anything definitive. All I'll say is that Brunell has been below average to God Awful in 2/3's of his starts as a Redskin and in crunch time in '04 and '05 when Gibbs needed him to wake up, he did not do so. Down the stretch Brunell lead us nowhere, instead the OL, Portis and our Defense dragged our moribund passing game behind it nearly to a title game, an extraordinary accomplishment for a team that was so dysfunctional on offense, yet again. Relying on Brunell, as Gibbs does now, is foolhardy in the extreme and this trade is ghastly. When Brunell breaks down, or just outright sucks and he almost assuredly will (he hasn't put together a complete season of solid play since Clinton was hanging out with Monica) we have the greatness that is Todd Collins, and a 2nd year QB that we mortgaged the house for who hasn't taken a snap to take us to the promised land. Hopefully Campbell will be ready because I can't see Collins won't be leading us anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Consigliere Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Sorry, AJ, I didn't see the 4 touchdown performance we got from Brunell against Dallas in a key division game out of Ramsey. Ramsey lit up the Jets and Falcons to start off the 2003 season but he never really seemed to play well in the division or in games against quality opponents. 5 TD's and 0 Interceptions and a boatload of yards (I believe 480+) against Tennessee and Philly as a rookie in the Spurrier offense. Tennessee and Philly both played in Conference title games following the '01 regular seasons. And that only required me to think on that question for about five seconds. It's also worth noting that Ramsey was behind center when the Redskins beat the Cowboys for the first time in five years (after 10 consecutive defeats), something Brad Johnson, Trent Green, Gus Frerotte, Tony Banks, Jeff George, and the Gator Boys Spurrier brought in failed to do during that stretch). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Consigliere Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 Turnovers cost games, the Skins D is a good Defencse but playing on a short field means that even good D's give up scores, second Brunell vs the Cowpukes (3-1) Ramsey (1-2) Brunell vs the Iggles (3-1) Ramsey vs the Iggles (0-4) Brunell vs the Giants (1-2) Ramsey vs the Giants (2-2) Brunell vs the NFC East (7-4) Ramsey vs the NFC East (3-8) IF you can't win the division you won't see the play-offs. Finally it comes down to managing the game putting together drives and generally winning, stats are nothing without the W's. Finally, Gibbs gave Ramsey a shot, he named him the starter and every pass attempt under Ramsey was cringe inducing during the preseason. But the one number that stands out is Brunell in 2005 (10-6) and (1-1) in the play-offs. However since I am scum in your view, you won't listen to this. I only hope that when Brunell and Skins win SB XLI, you don't come jumping on the Brunell Bandwagon:jetssuck: :helmet:Edited to comply with forum rules. Please DO NOT quote long blocks of text. It's in the rules. Thanks. ~ihs Excellent Divisional stats. One thing you probably should include are fumbles, as they are every bit as potentially game killing as interceptions, Brunell definitely limited his interception issues this year, but he had big time problems holding onto the football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 This is the last time I'm going to invest any significant effort into this issue, but .... Right. So you show up in this thread. AJ - Pat's gone. Deal with it. Move on. If you can't do that, then perhaps you should find a new home where your broken record antics will be tolerated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.