Dana87 Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 Would you like someone with an education to point out the errors in logic the above post exhibits or would you just like to admit you were under the influence when you made it? Exactly what part didn't you understand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butz65 Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 I think he willingly did serious and undeserved damage to a player's career for personal reasons, whether it be pride, or his relationship with Brunell, or some combination. AJ_Skins - I'll admit I'm going to miss you once you're up in New York stalking PR. However, your assumption is absurd. This was never a personal thing for Gibbs. Once he accepted Snyder's offer to come back and coach, Gibbs evaluated every position on the roster and decided that PR wasn't going to cut it as his QB. That was before he had decided upon Brunell or any other free agent QB on the market at the time. Once that decision was made he took a look at QB's who were available at the time and settled on MB. Why would a HOF coach care enough to make something personal regarding any player? Besides, as you pointed out before Ramsey was traded, Gibbs praised Ramsey and the effort he gave to the team as a backup (hardly a personal dig at the guy). Also - if Gibbs really did want to punish or hurt Ramsey he would have ignored PR's request to be traded and forced him to ride the bench as our #3 QB (which was the position you were pushing before PR was traded). Good luck in NY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 AJ meet Eagle fans. Eagle fans meet AJ....and may god have mercy on your souls. :laugh: :laugh: That might be one of the funniest things I've ever read on this site. well done whiskey! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerANDgut Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 There is no QB alive who could have beaten out Mark Brunell for Joe Gibbs. That's the whole point. you just shrugged me off with a vague peter king-esque repsonse. You really think Gibbs wouldn't want Tom Brady, Favre, palmer or others. You're rediculous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerANDgut Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 Yeah...how can all these statistics and facts stand up against "you're still wrong"? You completely dismantled every argument I've made. Facts? You call those facts? So something you project from broken numbers into future numbers is fact? If these are facts why haven't they happened? Please don't say it was b/c he wasn't on the field. He was on the field for 33 games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gstahl Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 You're right. Joe Gibbs was one of my biggest personal role models for most of my life. I can't figure out a way to look at this situation that doesn't make him look bad. Not as a win-at-all-costs football coach, but as a human being. What's more, I think our QB situation for next year is questionable, at best. I can... Assume you and I weren't at all the meetings, were not privy to all the practice films, do not know what is planned for the offense this year. You love to rely of facts, but you have no real facts about what Joe thought, what Patrick thought and what the real basis for this decision was. You assume alot and expect all you assumptions, dissections of press conferences and reading between the lines to be correct. I assume you are just as uninformed as the rest of us and try to find patterns in the noise which may or may not be correct. Evaluate Joe Gibbs for his body of work, if he comes up wanting in your eyes find a new idol, if not continue viewing him as a role model. It is clear you want to see a certain pattern, stats are a great way to validate your sense of the situation but in the end your own stats basically say this issue is a push and thus, I submit the intangibles and day to day contact more than control the outcome. We know nothing of this, thus likely know nothing about why this team and Patrick parted ways... My 2 cents... The Dallas win sealed the starting job for Burnell, likely Joe felt uncomfortable with Patrick in preseason and open day thus pulling him when he had the injury. Getting to the playoffs means Brunell starts next year. There is likely no chance for Patrick to start or really have a place, as Jason Campbell is in the wings. Best move for him is to find some place the is less settled and gives him the chance to start. Is this what happened, who knows, but it is just as likely as any other scenario. I am sure I would not personally like every person on this board. The reality is that I do not really know them. Calling anyone names or a whole group of people sure seems like and uneeded personal attack. Just as you do not really know what happened with Patrick you have no real idea who you are calling names, which in my book is just plain bad karma. I hope you are happier about things this time next year. I hope that you are a bandwagon jumper with Brunell leading us to the superbowl and yes I hope that Patrick wins the starting job and wins most games (unless he is playing us). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPREP HOG Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Before you read this, know that I am a Brunnell fan I think he is the guy we want to lead our team going into the 06 season.......and I think Campbell has a great chance to be the face and future of the skins....... OK So............ We traded Ramsey for a 6th round pick........ look i do not care what u think about ramsey, but I would take Ramsey over any QB you could take through rounds 2 thru 6 any year........the guy is young, the guy has experience, and is a good guy (good guy in reference to how much he was behind this team even after getting screwed over so many times by management). I am not a Ramsey guy, he is not our future, he is not a future all-pro, and with the situation we are in he is just not our guy......... HOWEVER........... Ramsey for a 6th round pick???? If you say this is an ok deal....if you believe that the "average" value an NFL Team will get with a 6th round pick is the same as the value you will get with Ramsey........then you are out of your mind........ Say we wanted to trade Brunnell........EVEN AFTER THE YEAR HE HAD.......what do you think we would get in return??? look with the situation we are in..........Brunnell is the better fit, and Ramsey deserves a chance somewhere else...........but would a team give us the same value for Brunnell that they would for Ramsey???? Upside for Brunnell........not much, if he is as good as last year the skins are lucky.... Upside for Ramsey.........HUUUUUGGEEE........the guy could easily bust out with the Jets and be nothing.......the guy could easily turn his career around aka Drew Brees (only a year later) and be huge........the guy has the arm, has the experience, has the heart, and is a team player..... Drew Brees reference in that Drew his first year was real bad........so bad that they took another QB (hmm what did we do when we lost confidence in Ramsey, oh yea we took Campbell)....... Only that Brees got a LEGITIMATE second chance due to the fact that Rivers went TO and asked for a huge contract.......... Look everyone deserves a second chance in the NFL, especially if you got talent and are a team player...... AGAIN.......I AM A MARK B. fan........but Ramsey is worth well more then a 6th rounder......... AND i think the person who started this thread made a great point in that if we wanted Ramsey back, we would have to give up a lot more WITH Brunell (our starting QB) to get him........ Would you disagree that we would not be able to trade Brunnell and a 3rd pick for Ramsey?? I believe, the whole point in this guy's post is to point out that we did not get the best value for Ramsey and that our starting QB is not worth in trade value to the guy we just traded away....... Again.......I believe, the we are better off going with Brunnell this season then Ramsey....... However, you gotta think, we just traded away Ramsey worth I believe 1.7 against the cap and signed a guy, Collins, for I believer 1.25 or maybe just 1 mil towards the cap....... Even with Collins experience with Saunders offence........you would feel better if Brunnell was injured for the season and Collins was coming in vs. Ramsey...... Now you bring Campbell into the situation, that is a whole different story, this is a guy with huge upside....... BUT I would feel much better knowing a guy like Ramsey was also their then a guy like Collins........ Really hope (and trust me, I have know reason to question Gibbs and his staff) the coaching staff knows that Campbell is ready, Because the guy is more then just one play away, he is a bad mini-camp away from starting..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickens Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Is Ramsey worth more than a 6th round pick? Just based on merit alone? Yeah. But what you are worth comes down to basic economics. There were a glut of free agent QBs in this offseason (Culpepper, Brees) and of course only a finite number of teams looking for a quarterback. So in the current marketplace Ramsey's value decreased all the way down to a 6th rounder. Last year he would've fetched a lot more. Next year he might fetch more but in this offseason the market just didn't favor us. And at some point you have to just cut your losses and move on...and that's precisely what the Redskins did in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smitty71 Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Sorry man, I appreciate your effort on the thread but Ramsey is no longer a Skin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpnasty Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 no more freakn Ramzy man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilgamesh Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Wasn't there another thread about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ_Skins Posted March 22, 2006 Author Share Posted March 22, 2006 I said the same thing a million times, and I think by this offseason even Coach Gibbs probably started thinking it might not be a great idea to trade Ramsey, but the bottom line is, after the way he was treated, he was not coming back under any circumstances. He was going to sit out the whole offseason and not report until the last possible minute. Gibbs took what he could get for him because he burned the bridge with Ramsey in week one of 2005, and it wasn't getting rebuilt. Everybody else knew it was going to happen too, which drove the price down even more. Maybe Gibbs thought it was worth it to get his guy Brunell on the field, or maybe he forgot that you can't treat players any way you want in the current system and expect them to stick around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DE SKINS FAN Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 When we picked up Collins our trade leverage completely dropped, because teams knew that we were going to drop him. That's right, we were not just going to get a 6th rounder for him. They knew we were ready to take nothing. I think the only reason the Jets gave up a 6th is because they wanted to ensure they got him before we cut him, which could be as late as June first. So, we're lucky to get a 6th rounder for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilgamesh Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 We need a special forum for Ramsey apologists where all manner of alternate and non reality scenarios can be discussed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21ppg=superbowl Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 As DE SKINS FAN noted, we could've gotten something for ramsey or we could've gotten nothing. Was he worth more than a 6th? yes. could we have gotten more than a 6th? probably not. also factor in a recent article in which gibbs revealed that he told ramsey early in the regular season (post benching) that if ram would remain a team guy we would look out for his interests this offseason (when we traded him). gibbs is a man of his word, and all ramsey has ever wanted was his shot at starting in the nfl. we sent him to a team where he has a chance to prove himself. we got something for him even though everyone and their brother knew we would cut him if it came down to it. call it a win/win under horrible circumstances. . . it's better than nothing, and for ramsey's sake, we didn't send him to a team that wanted a 6th-round backup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 We need a special forum for Ramsey apologists where all manner of alternate and non reality scenarios can be discussed... That's why this was moved to the "Around the NFL" forum Look for a 16-thread Lavar mega-plex opening here soon.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Get over it. Ramsey is Jet and probably will BE OUT OF THE NFL in 2 years! IF the Jets try to trade up to #2- you can bet Ramsey won't get any shot in NY if the Jets draft Linehart! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 I said the same thing a million times, and I think by this offseason even Coach Gibbs probably started thinking it might not be a great idea to trade Ramsey, but the bottom line is, after the way he was treated, he was not coming back under any circumstances. He was going to sit out the whole offseason and not report until the last possible minute. Gibbs took what he could get for him because he burned the bridge with Ramsey in week one of 2005, and it wasn't getting rebuilt. Everybody else knew it was going to happen too, which drove the price down even more. Maybe Gibbs thought it was worth it to get his guy Brunell on the field, or maybe he forgot that you can't treat players any way you want in the current system and expect them to stick around. Especially if you dont need them or want them around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted March 22, 2006 Share Posted March 22, 2006 Check the stats again, big guy, to see who had the better game against the Bears...Ramsey at over a 100 yds in little over a quarter and 1 TD (called back) or Brunell...no TD's at all, 85 yds in almost 3 quarters and then three quarters of zip in the next game until those passes to Moss. If you're going to make a case, make a case based on the facts. You have some live amunition. Why not use it so we can have a real debate instead of this religious squabble. I will:Ramsey 1st drive-Int 2nd drive-fumble 3rd drive-fumble Brunell 1st drive-FG 2nd drive-FG 3rd drive-FG 4th drive-punt 5th drive-punt 6th drive-kneels to victory Get it? Once again proving that stats dont win football games, which pretty much sums up this whole thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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