Midnight Judges Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Right, atone for things that we had nothing to do with.I don't think its all been wiped out, nor will it ever be. But if you can logically explain to me how affirmative action vs own merit creates a level playing field, please do. In order to have an even playing field, we must first create one. Hiring people that aren't qualified for the job because people feel sorry for them and need to make a quota is naive and only perpetuating the problem. Sounds like your argument is not against affirmative action, it's against affirmative action being misused and we can all agree on that. The original intent of AA was for the tie to go to the minority, not for unqualified people to assume jobs that they will fail at. I can prove to you that we have not yet created a level playing field. Studies have shown typically black names do not get called in for interviews as much as typically white names. The Government had everything to do with segregation and slavery. We are all Americans and we must own up to our past (even though some us were born in 1979). All too often I hear Republicans talking about how Europe should be kissing our butt because we saved them in WWII. They want all the credit for being an American but they don't want any of the baggage, you can't have it both ways. You take the good with the bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight Judges Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Dems no longer have any incentive to cater to them (if I that makes sense) Affirmative action. Dems are for it. Republicans are against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Guys, Boobie is not a Republican Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HailYeah Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Guys, Boobie is not a Republican Why do you say that. :laugh: He only wrote this: Why did he even come? Does he really think that having token minorities in his administration makes me forget that executed 58 black men in one year. Pay respects at the WHITE house. Bush doesn't care about black people, nobody does. Seems like a loyal GOPer to me.:laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 It is not wrong to be a black republican. I can't believe we even have to ask such a question. Of course it isn't. Every voter has to vote with his conscience and for the people that best represent his interests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjTj Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 I think you have this backwards. If you want more blacks elected, then, as a group, blacks need to diversify and increase their representation in all available parties. "Pooling" the vote in one party only further marginalizes blacks as a whole -- the Republicans don't even try and the Democrats take them for granted. Experience dictates otherwise. A minority gains little by diversifying and diluting their vote. That's why every interest group that is based on voter turnout (religious right, abortion, labor, racial minorities) focuses its efforts on one party where their votes can be the difference between a candidate being elected and not elected. Interest groups based on money and power (Indian casinos, big business, agriculture) focus on diversifying their representation, because they can spread their risk to maximize their return. Saying that a party "takes them for granted" is a nice catch-phrase, but it doesn't reflect the reality of the situation. During the Clinton years, Black representation in Congress rose from 27 to 39 to 41 ... in no small part due to the efforts of Janet Reno and the Justice Department in forcing states to draw majority-black districts. You can't say that blacks haven't gotten anything from the Democratic Party because in fact they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 It is not wrong to be a black republican. I can't believe we even have to ask such a question. Of course it isn't. Every voter has to vote with his conscience and for the people that best represent his interests. Thank you Destino. Anyone that tells you that you have to vote a certain way based on the color of your skin is being pretty ignorant in my view. You should look at the issues and the character of the candidates on an individual basis, and vote your conscience. :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Man I got into it this morning. I said that I was a republican, and people jumped all over me. I went on to say the the republican party was the party that freed the slaves, and fought against the system of slavery during and after the Civil war. But nobody would hear it. They said that the democractic party is in favor of african american. But this only became the traditional basis of thought after LB Johnson signed the Civil Rights act. Why don't people remember their history. Are we all a victim of perception? I mean the south votes pro republican now. But I feel that I'm right and they are wrong. Wait, you're a Republican? :rubeyes: :yikes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Guys, Boobie is not a Republican I'm still trying to pick myself up off the floor after opening this thread...LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor 36 Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Sounds like your argument is not against affirmative action, it's against affirmative action being misused and we can all agree on that. The original intent of AA was for the tie to go to the minority, not for unqualified people to assume jobs that they will fail at.I can prove to you that we have not yet created a level playing field. Studies have shown typically black names do not get called in for interviews as much as typically white names. The Government had everything to do with segregation and slavery. We are all Americans and we must own up to our past (even though some us were born in 1979). All too often I hear Republicans talking about how Europe should be kissing our butt because we saved them in WWII. They want all the credit for being an American but they don't want any of the baggage, you can't have it both ways. You take the good with the bad. You have got to be kidding me. The tie goes to the minority??? Are we playing baseball??? You forgot to mention how the minority got his/her tie….. by being GIVEN extra points based on the color of his/her skin to begin with. Just look at college applications. Many colleges use a numerical system in selecting their incoming students. Points are given to people based on GPA, SAT scores, extra-curricular, etc. In most states, Black students are given 400-600 points just for being black. (Some are even higher, like Michigan). That is fair, right? I mean, my ancestors did not live here during the days of slavery, never mind own a slave, but my children and I are supposed to pay retribution because of the color of our skin??? Maybe, as a Jewish descendant, I should ask for retribution from African-Americans since slavery was invented on their home continent and was used to enslave my ancestors??? We can’t forget history, right??? All of this is being done based on race, which is by definition racial profiling. Something that Dems supposedly want to get rid of, but not when it suits their needs, right? All AA does is tell minorities that they are not good enough and smart enough to compete with whites. I don't believe that is true, but obviously Dems do. You can try to prove all you want to that we don't have a level playing field. Anyone can prove anything they try to in this arena. Stats and numbers are always tweaked to reach one’s sought goal. The truth is that we will never come close to fixing the problem as long as people are using a double standard like AA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hu-bison-skinsfan Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Political parties change throughout history. Ask yourself what the party stands for now, thats all that matters. Lincoln's Republican party is certainly not the Republican party of today. Same for Democrats. You can choose whatever party you want. I just wish it wasn't a strict two party system that rarely represents the majority of voters. Amen to this quote. Moreover, both parties are guilty of promoting policies that, in some way, harm the Black community -- I suppose that is unavoidable. This question actually begs for an answer that's like, 100 pages long, but the short answer is 'no'. By the way, I'll bet that you'll find more blacks who (privately) lean right than most people would expect. This doesn't make you all that special... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hu-bison-skinsfan Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 You have got to be kidding me. The tie goes to the minority??? Are we playing baseball??? You forgot to mention how the minority got his/her tie….. by being GIVEN extra points based on the color of his/her skin to begin with. Just look at college applications. Many colleges use a numerical system in selecting their incoming students. Points are given to people based on GPA, SAT scores, extra-curricular, etc. In most states, Black students are given 400-600 points just for being black. (Some are even higher, like Michigan). That is fair, right? I mean, my ancestors did not live here during the days of slavery, never mind own a slave, but my children and I are supposed to pay retribution because of the color of our skin??? Maybe, as a Jewish descendant, I should ask for retribution from African-Americans since slavery was invented on their home continent and was used to enslave my ancestors??? We can’t forget history, right??? All of this is being done based on race, which is by definition racial profiling. Something that Dems supposedly want to get rid of, but not when it suits their needs, right? All AA does is tell minorities that they are not good enough and smart enough to compete with whites. I don't believe that is true, but obviously Dems do. You can try to prove all you want to that we don't have a level playing field. Anyone can prove anything they try to in this arena. Stats and numbers are always tweaked to reach one’s sought goal. The truth is that we will never come close to fixing the problem as long as people are using a double standard like AA. I am against 'reparations' and quotas but there are so many things wrong with this quote that I'll have to come back and address this later today. In the meantime, consider that it is not slavery alone that creates the case for 'retribution' as you call it. The US established numerous policies that, for many years after slavery ended, perpetuated the havoc that the institution brought to the Black community. I'm not so sure that a (relatively) few years of AA or extra college application points have remedied that. If you can prove/quantify your continued victimization that resulted from these ancient African laws/policies, you've got a case... It should also be noted that not having owned slaves or descended from a slave owner doesn't lessen the inherent value of 'whiteness' in this country. By the way, I don't give a rip about the social (sometimes economic) disadvantage of being African American because I believe in my own ability to progress regardless (check my signature!) I'm an African American (surprise!) and AA doesn't tell me that I'm not good enough or smart enough because I have the good sense to view the policy with some social and historical context. Finally (for now), I'm not even an AA proponent or a Dem but I hate to hear people put forward shallow arguments against either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 boobie has as much right and reason to call himself a black republican as I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 boobie has as much right and reason to call himself a black republican as I do. LMAO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosperity Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Yes, it is. It is also wrong to be a white republican, hispanic republican, or any other type of republican. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Punani2 Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 boobie has as much right and reason to call himself a black republican as I do. now that is some funny ****... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignatius J. Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Yes, it is.It is also wrong to be a white republican, hispanic republican, or any other type of republican. dammit liberty you beat me to my joke! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight Judges Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 You have got to be kidding me. The tie goes to the minority??? Are we playing baseball??? You forgot to mention how the minority got his/her tie….. by being GIVEN extra points based on the color of his/her skin to begin with. Just look at college applications. Many colleges use a numerical system in selecting their incoming students. Points are given to people based on GPA, SAT scores, extra-curricular, etc. In most states, Black students are given 400-600 points just for being black. (Some are even higher, like Michigan). That is fair, right? I mean, my ancestors did not live here during the days of slavery, never mind own a slave, but my children and I are supposed to pay retribution because of the color of our skin??? Maybe, as a Jewish descendant, I should ask for retribution from African-Americans since slavery was invented on their home continent and was used to enslave my ancestors??? We can’t forget history, right??? All of this is being done based on race, which is by definition racial profiling. Something that Dems supposedly want to get rid of, but not when it suits their needs, right? All AA does is tell minorities that they are not good enough and smart enough to compete with whites. I don't believe that is true, but obviously Dems do. You can try to prove all you want to that we don't have a level playing field. Anyone can prove anything they try to in this arena. Stats and numbers are always tweaked to reach one’s sought goal. The truth is that we will never come close to fixing the problem as long as people are using a double standard like AA. I'm a white male. I had no problem getting into a decent college. I had no problem getting a great job after college. I am willing to compete under affirmative action laws because I can accept that challenge as a necessary evil after all this country has been through from a civil rights standpoint. I'll say it again, it doesn't matter who your ancestors are. You are an American now and you have to own up to everything that it means to be an American, including our dark history of discrimination and oppression. You enjoy American security, the American economy and American industry. Much of it was built on the backs of people who were treated unfairly. We can atone or we can do nothing. The Republican solution is to do nothing. AA does not tell minorities they are stupid. It let's them know we are trying to make up for our mistakes. Government mistakes. American mistakes. Are you saying the playing field is perfectly even and that all the studies I've read were doctored or conducted with a desired outcome? That's a valid assertion but all you need to do is ask black people how often they get discriminated against. From what I hear, it's a lot more than white people are aware of. Then you go on to say affirmative action is preserving the problem. I disagree. AA is not so significant that it will have a huge affect on the healing process we have been going through since the civil rights movements of the 60's and 70's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Do yourself a favor and don't be a Republican or a Democrat. THINK FOR YOURSELF. Both parties are clueless and don't care about anything but pushing their own party line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winslowalrob Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 I don't think your a Repub, but be what you want to be. I wish nobody was a Republican, but meh, not my choice. And the parties have switched ideologies, the modern Republican party did not free the slaves, and neither did the modern Dems. Don't have that factor into political preference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Do yourself a favor and don't be a Republican or a Democrat. THINK FOR YOURSELF. Both parties are clueless and don't care about anything but pushing their own party line. But why think for yourself when you can just do whatever Sean Hannity or Al Franken TELL you to think? :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 But why think for yourself when you can just do whatever Sean Hannity or Al Franken TELL you to think? :laugh: Exactly. It's much easier for people to listen to short blurbs and make decisions that way. The Dems and GOP are both screwing all of us anyway, they just go about it in different ways. It makes me laugh reading all of the diehard "how great MY party is" posts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winslowalrob Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 But why think for yourself when you can just do whatever Sean Hannity or Al Franken TELL you to think? :laugh: Al Franken is NOT as bad as Hannity. Don't lump em up. Michael Moore is as bad as Hannity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Punani2 Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Al Franken is NOT as bad as Hannity. Don't lump em up. Michael Moore is as bad as Hannity. Al Franken is a mongoloid *******. He is worse then Hannity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuposse87 Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 i thought the republican party abandoned minorities in the guilded age because they realized they had big buisness on their side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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