China Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 The cashless society is a con – and big finance is behind it All over the western world banks are shutting down cash machines and branches. They are trying to push you into using their digital payments and digital banking infrastructure. Just like Google wants everyone to access and navigate the broader internet via its privately controlled search portal, so financial institutions want everyone to access and navigate the broader economy through their systems. Another aim is to cut costs in order to boost profits. Branches require staff. Replacing them with standardised self-service apps allows the senior managers of financial institutions to directly control and monitor interactions with customers. Banks, of course, tell us a different story about why they do this. I recently got a letter from my bank telling me that they are shutting down local branches because “customers are turning to digital”, and they are thus “responding to changing customer preferences”. I am one of the customers they are referring to, but I never asked them to shut down the branches. There is a feedback loop going on here. In closing down their branches, or withdrawing their cash machines, they make it harder for me to use those services. I am much more likely to “choose” a digital option if the banks deliberately make it harder for me to choose a non-digital option. In behavioural economics this is referred to as “nudging”. If a powerful institution wants to make people choose a certain thing, the best strategy is to make it difficult to choose the alternative. We can illustrate this with the example of self-checkout tills at supermarkets. The underlying agenda is to replace checkout staff with self-service machines to cut costs. But supermarkets have to convince their customers. They thus initially present self-checkout as a convenient alternative. When some people then use that alternative, the supermarket can cite that as evidence of a change in customer behaviour, which they then use to justify a reduction in checkout employees. This in turn makes it more inconvenient to use the checkout staff, which in turn makes customers more likely to use the machines. They slowly wean you off staff, and “nudge” you towards self-service. Financial institutions, likewise, are trying to nudge us towards a cashless society and digital banking. The true motive is corporate profit. Payments companies such as Visa and Mastercard want to increase the volume of digital payments services they sell, while banks want to cut costs. The nudge requires two parts. First, they must increase the inconvenience of cash, ATMs and branches. Second, they must vigorously promote the alternative. They seek to make people “learn” that they want digital, and then “choose” it. The recent Visa chaos, during which millions of people who have become dependent on digital payment suddenly found themselves stranded when the monopolistic payment network crashed, was a temporary setback. Digital systems may be “convenient”, but they often come with central points of failure. Cash, on the other hand, does not crash. It does not rely on external data centres, and is not subject to remote control or remote monitoring. The cash system allows for an unmonitored “off the grid” space. This is also the reason why financial institutions and financial technology companies want to get rid of it. Cash transactions are outside the net that such institutions cast to harvest fees and data. A cashless society brings dangers. People without bank accounts will find themselves further marginalised, disenfranchised from the cash infrastructure that previously supported them. There are also poorly understood psychological implications about cash encouraging self-control while paying by card or a mobile phone can encourage spending. And a cashless society has major surveillance implications. Click on the link for the full piece Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Just put the stamp on my forehead and call it done. Cash is the poor mans money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 I dont disagree with the premise. Not sure why anyone would. Most institutions are designed to get Americans into debt. It is big business Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 I personally hate carrying cash on me but it seems pretty obvious that becoming a cash-less society will lead to everyone paying fees & surcharges for every single transaction they make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 I still use cash frequently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Crypto brah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 I think the article is wrong about a few things, including this assumption that digital currency must have a central point of failure. I switched to using fee-free credit cards for 99% of what I do anyways so I can rack up points. So this is less of an “issue” for me. Whenever I have to carry cash, which happens occasionally, I get angry and don’t understand why anyone carries cash. It’s slower, it’s bulkier, and you have to keep track of it (as well as whether you have enough for what you’re doing) i dont gave any any of those problems with my card. And I don’t even need the card to charge to it. and I get money for using it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Oh and change. My god the change. Who the **** wants to deal with change. Whoever decided we should split the dollar into increments of 100 with little pieces of metal is a moron. Clanging around, losing it, I mean wake up people cash is inferior. Theres a whole business in “we’ll take those stupid pieces of metal from you for a fee” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 I'll disagree with the premise. Quote Banks, of course, tell us a different story about why they do this. I recently got a letter from my bank telling me that they are shutting down local branches because “customers are turning to digital”, and they are thus “responding to changing customer preferences”. I am one of the customers they are referring to, but I never asked them to shut down the branches. So, the author thinks that his preferences are the only ones that count. **** this guy. Why would anyone want to make a special trip to a bank branch if they don't have to? And I'll answer that question because I worked in a bank branch for 4 years: they come because they don't have anything better to do, they are lonely and want someone to talk at, and they know the bank branch personnel isn't allowed to be rude to them and ask them to stop being annoying. Quote In behavioural economics this is referred to as “nudging”. If a powerful institution wants to make people choose a certain thing, the best strategy is to make it difficult to choose the alternative. In regular economics this is referred to as "capitalism." If any institution doesn't give consumer's what they want, then someone else probably will and this ****head should go to another bank with branches. Quote Financial institutions, likewise, are trying to nudge us towards a cashless society and digital banking. The true motive is corporate profit. HOLD THE ****ING PHONE YOU GUYS. Financial institutions true motive is .....profit? Quote Digital systems may be “convenient”, but they often come with central points of failure. Cash, on the other hand, does not crash. I love the rhetorical tactic of putting a word in quotation marks so that it somehow "doesn't count." Also, sure, cash doesn't "crash" but it does "get lost" "tear and become unusable" "cost the government nearly a billion dollars per year to make" and "spread germs and fecal matter." Also, WTF does "come with central points of failure" even ****ing mean? Who let this guy write in public? Quote People without bank accounts will find themselves further marginalised, disenfranchised from the cash infrastructure that previously supported them. There are also poorly understood psychological implications about cash encouraging self-control while paying by card or a mobile phone can encourage spending. The number of "unbanked" people is actually a serious problem, but this guy has it wrong. People without bank accounts don't have bank accounts because they love cash, they don't have bank accounts because they can't get bank accounts. Bank's run checks on people before they'll give them an account to make sure they aren't fraud risks, or illegal, or 12 or whatever. This is about 7% of US households (which is a small but significant amount). And the problem isnt "oh dear, they can't use cash" the problem is they have to pay fees to cash their already-meager paychecks, and the places that do that charge a ton of money. None of the issues of the unbanked has anything to do with what this guy is complaining about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 20 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: Crypto brah Im eagerly awaiting the day where on a Friday night you can find multiple tables in whatever restaurant you’re in with everyone at the table on their phones waiting for crypto to spike so they can pay their bill and bounce “oh ****, waitress! Btc is up 500$, quick, bill me!” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Yeah and you cash carriers are walking disease and germ sacks. Real gross people. Good catch @PleaseBlitz 8 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said: The number of "unbanked" people is actually a serious problem, but this guy has it wrong. People without bank accounts don't have bank accounts because they love cash, they don't have bank accounts because they can't get bank accounts. Bank's run checks on people before they'll give them an account to make sure they aren't fraud risks, or illegal, or 12 or whatever. This is about 7% of US households (which is a small but significant amount). And the problem isnt "oh dear, they can't use cash" the problem is they have to pay fees to cash their already-meager paychecks, and the places that do that charge a ton of money. None of the issues of the unbanked has anything to do with what this guy is complaining about. Meanwhile an entire continent called Africa is making huge strides because digital currency gave them better access and less corruption. The coin clangers need to wake up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
China Posted July 19, 2018 Author Share Posted July 19, 2018 31 minutes ago, tshile said: Yeah and you cash carriers are walking disease and germ sacks. Real gross people. Good catch @PleaseBlitz Meanwhile an entire continent called Africa is making huge strides because digital currency gave them better access and less corruption. The coin clangers need to wake up Did you say less corruption in Africa? Less than what, previous levels of corruption in Africa? Because that's a pretty low standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, China said: Did you say less corruption in Africa? Less than what, previous levels of corruption in Africa? Because that's a pretty low standard. Which is why improving it is a nice thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 48 minutes ago, tshile said: Oh and change. My god the change. Who the **** wants to deal with change. Whoever decided we should split the dollar into increments of 100 with little pieces of metal is a moron. Clanging around, losing it, I mean wake up people cash is inferior. Theres a whole business in “we’ll take those stupid pieces of metal from you for a fee” My change jar paid for my hair appointment last week. ? It was $70 I didn't "know" I had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 5 minutes ago, skinsmarydu said: My change jar paid for my hair appointment last week. ? It was $70 I didn't "know" I had. Yeah and it was probably $100 before you had to pay someone to count it for you and give you bills back the only advantage cash has is that you can’t roll your phone into a tube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooka Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 If I was a mugger I'd probably find out where this guy hangs out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Just now, Mooka said: If I was a mugger I'd probably find out where this guy hangs out. If I were a mugger, I'd learn how to steal identities. 2 minutes ago, tshile said: the only advantage cash has is that you can’t use your phone to do drugs Like hell you say. https://www.kushca.com/7-best-california-demand-weed-delivery-apps/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
China Posted July 19, 2018 Author Share Posted July 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, tshile said: Which is why improving it is a nice thing? I agree that improving it is nice. And some countries in Africa are improving their corruption. But others are getting worse. And the link between digital currency and less corruption seems nebulous at best. I think you can be just as corrupt with digital currency as hard currency. https://www.transparency.org/cpi2014/results Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said: Like hell you say. https://www.kushca.com/7-best-california-demand-weed-delivery-apps/ I didn’t say buy. When you you can smoke your weed with phone app let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
China Posted July 19, 2018 Author Share Posted July 19, 2018 4 minutes ago, tshile said: Yeah and it was probably $100 before you had to pay someone to count it for you and give you bills back the only advantage cash has is that you can’t use your phone to do drugs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 In fact the drug industry went to crypto. Even drug dealers figured out how dumb carrying cash is Also drug dealers beat us in not charging less than whole dollars. Drug dealers are smarter than the people who designed our currency Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 @China Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 no one leaves their hood up. Need a free and clear head snap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 1 hour ago, NoCalMike said: I personally hate carrying cash on me but it seems pretty obvious that becoming a cash-less society will lead to everyone paying fees & surcharges for every single transaction they make. Which diverts money back to large banking institutions (which help the wealthy). Credit cards divert money from local stores (and the local economy) and mostly middle class (maybe upper middle class) people to the most wealthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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