2017 Baltimore Orioles Thread - We suck again!

[justice98]

1 hour ago, DM72 said:

 

That's why I'm not totally sold on Adam Jones as this great team leader. As a team leader, you can't let the team mail it in like that.

 

You could say the same thing about Buck then letting that happen.

 

Adam's only one guy.  If the other guys dont have the fortitude to not nail it in, Jones isnt gonna give it to them. No one guy is.

 

But this was more about talent. They just werent good.  

[Hersh]

If we are talking about guys mailing it in, is Manny one of those guys? 

 

If we are talking about guys mailing it in, is Manny one of those guys? 

 

[Maxito]

O's got the short end of the deal with the Davis contract.  Feel that we made a huge mistake resigning him! We could have done a  lot better on putting Mancini at 1st and signed someone for the OF.

 

Hope that we get some better starters for our pitching staff!

[ThomasTomasz]

On 10/2/2017 at 6:56 PM, Maxito said:

O's got the short end of the deal with the Davis contract.  Feel that we made a huge mistake resigning him! We could have done a  lot better on putting Mancini at 1st and signed someone for the OF.

 

Hope that we get some better starters for our pitching staff!

 

More than that, we need Chris Bosio as our pitching coach.  He was able to reconstruct Jake Arrieta, and people were talking this year about teams having to "de Oriole" pitchers when they acquire them.  If that's true, then I want the guy who did it with Case Zero. 

[justice98]

I'm all in on moving Manny at this point.  We rode this train of competiveness as far as it'll go.  Any veteran player not named Schoop should be on the block.  

[Hersh]

18 minutes ago, justice98 said:

I'm all in on moving Manny at this point.  We rode this train of competiveness as far as it'll go.  Any veteran player not named Schoop should be on the block.  

 

I wouldn't go so far with all veteran players. I'd move Manny, Britton and Trumbo. Davis won't be traded so I won't bother listing him. I'd rather the team lock up Jones and Brach on 3 or 4 year extensions and move Jones to RF. Would love to see a Schoop extension as well. 

[pjfootballer]

PTI said the Os are aggressively shopping Manny. 

[Spaceman Spiff]

2 hours ago, Hersh said:

 

I wouldn't go so far with all veteran players. I'd move Manny, Britton and Trumbo. Davis won't be traded so I won't bother listing him. I'd rather the team lock up Jones and Brach on 3 or 4 year extensions and move Jones to RF. Would love to see a Schoop extension as well. 

 

I don't think anyone would take Trumbo.

 

If I'm running the ship, the Orioles trade E V E R Y O N E , suddenly have the deepest farm system in the game, will probably win 60 games this year but be set up nicely for the future.  

[Hersh]

1 hour ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

I don't think anyone would take Trumbo.

 

If I'm running the ship, the Orioles trade E V E R Y O N E , suddenly have the deepest farm system in the game, will probably win 60 games this year but be set up nicely for the future.  

 

O's don't need to trade E V E R Y O N E for that to happen. If they trade Manny and Britton, they may have the number 1 ranked system on that alone. 

[RonArtest15]

1 minute ago, Hersh said:

 

O's don't need to trade E V E R Y O N E for that to happen. If they trade Manny and Britton, they may have the number 1 ranked system on that alone. 

 

O's don't have that much leverage right now...while the return will be better than what the Marlins got for Stanton, it won't nearly be enough (even with dealing Britton) to catapult the farm in the top-5. 

 

The time to trade Britton was last offseason.  Been saying this for a minute...look at what was given up for Miller and Chapman.  Britton was coming off arguably the most dominant season ever by a closer.  Now, there are MANY questions about whether or not he can return to form. 

[Hersh]

13 minutes ago, RonArtest15 said:

 

O's don't have that much leverage right now...while the return will be better than what the Marlins got for Stanton, it won't nearly be enough (even with dealing Britton) to catapult the farm in the top-5. 

 

The time to trade Britton was last offseason.  Been saying this for a minute...look at what was given up for Miller and Chapman.  Britton was coming off arguably the most dominant season ever by a closer.  Now, there are MANY questions about whether or not he can return to form. 

 

O's have a lot of leverage because MLB can grant any team 72 hours to get an extension done and that makes it a bidding war. Teams will want that exclusive negotiating ability. Now, if you add 5-7 prospects with 2 or 3 top 100 prospects and throw in Hunter Harvey returning to a top prospect and the O's will most certainly be top-5. That would give the O's 5-7 top 100 prospects. The top 2 or 3 teams currently have that kind of number in the top 100.

 

Anyway, I'm excited to see the front office potentially making a smart move if they know they can't sign Manny long term. Finally playing the long game instead of patchwork. 

[RonArtest15]

So many unknowns....a lot of "ifs."  Seeing what the Marlins got for Stanton gave me serious pause.  You're putting a lot of faith in DD to bring in a king's ransom for Machado when the market might not dictate the type of return that you may expect.  Also, the fact that this team reportedly hasn't negotiated with Machado's camp in YEARS is pathetic.  If there was really no chance to sign him long-term, he should have been dealt a while back.  I don't think there's going to be a bidding war...O's played themselves and might be forced to take a below-market value deal for Machado due to their ineptitude.  But hey...we got Chris Davis and Trumbo rotting in the lineup and the potential return of Miguel Gonzalez to ease the pain.  We're good. 

 

I've said this before, but I don't trust DD to oversee any part of a reload/rebuild.  He lacks serious foresight and his comments following the signing of Ohtani represents a philosophical problem of epic proportions and part of the reason why we'll be in baseball purgatory for refusing to get with the times. 

 

And getting with the times means actually considering dealing him to the Yankees.  IF Torres is part of that package....

[Hersh]

40 minutes ago, RonArtest15 said:

So many unknowns....a lot of "ifs."  Seeing what the Marlins got for Stanton gave me serious pause.  You're putting a lot of faith in DD to bring in a king's ransom for Machado when the market might not dictate the type of return that you may expect.  Also, the fact that this team reportedly hasn't negotiated with Machado's camp in YEARS is pathetic.  If there was really no chance to sign him long-term, he should have been dealt a while back.  I don't think there's going to be a bidding war...O's played themselves and might be forced to take a below-market value deal for Machado due to their ineptitude.  But hey...we got Chris Davis and Trumbo rotting in the lineup and the potential return of Miguel Gonzalez to ease the pain.  We're good. 

 

I've said this before, but I don't trust DD to oversee any part of a reload/rebuild.  He lacks serious foresight and his comments following the signing of Ohtani represents a philosophical problem of epic proportions and part of the reason why we'll be in baseball purgatory for refusing to get with the times. 

 

And getting with the times means actually considering dealing him to the Yankees.  IF Torres is part of that package....

 

I agree with pretty much all of this except the bidding war. Already two teams have met in person and this is only the beginning of the O's seemingly being serious about trading Manny. I don't have a lot of faith in DD but his recent trade record in the off-season has been solid. 

 

It does really suck that they haven't seriously negotiated with Manny's camp but gave Davis $160 million. 

[Spaceman Spiff]

2 hours ago, Hersh said:

 

O's don't need to trade E V E R Y O N E for that to happen. If they trade Manny and Britton, they may have the number 1 ranked system on that alone. 

 

Yeah, they do.  I mean, if we trade Manny and Britton, who are we kidding?  Stuck in some 70 win limbo where we think we can compete?  No way, burn it to the ground, trade EVERYONE, get as many prospects as you can and figure out who can play.  

 

[Hersh]

24 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Yeah, they do.  I mean, if we trade Manny and Britton, who are we kidding?  Stuck in some 70 win limbo where we think we can compete?  No way, burn it to the ground, trade EVERYONE, get as many prospects as you can and figure out who can play.  

 

 

Peter Angelos is 400 years old. This will not be a total rebuild like that. 

 

Oh, addressing the actual questions. O's will have a good $80 million having come off the books from last season and a number of prospects coming up. A quality GM should be able to build a team that can win with those kind of tools. Especially if they lock up guys like Schoop and Bundy for the next 6 years. 

No, I can't actually imagine the O's being that smart and proactive. 

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

12 hours ago, Hersh said:

 

Peter Angelos is 400 years old. This will not be a total rebuild like that. 

 

Oh, addressing the actual questions. O's will have a good $80 million having come off the books from last season and a number of prospects coming up. A quality GM should be able to build a team that can win with those kind of tools. Especially if they lock up guys like Schoop and Bundy for the next 6 years. 

No, I can't actually imagine the O's being that smart and proactive. 

 

 

I can't imagine them being smart, either.  Not as long as Angelos is there, yes he's 400 years old but has proven to be durable.  Also, who knows how his kids will run things?  This is a team that LOOOOOVES a Rule V guy, yet does precisely diddly **** in the international FA market and is also terrible at FA acquisitions.  I like DD because he's presided over the only winning baseball I've seen as an adult but he's probably not the best man for the job.

 

It's for those reasons that I'd like to see them get rid of everyone, minus probably Gausman, Bundy and Schoop.  But I'd still take calls on those guys, too.  For Schoop you'd have to give me close to what you can get for Manny.  

 

Take nothing for granted.  Can't assume any prospect we develop on our own or we get from a team in a trade will pan out.  That's how we're headed down the path we're on, which is a middling team in a stacked division with a few decent prospects but we're still in the bottom half of farm system rankings.  

 

Burn this **** to the ground, load up on prospects and compete in 2020 and 2021. 

[abdcskins]

I am on the trade Britton and Machado train.  I love Manny, I just don't see him signing here.  Not even sure he would want to.  It's no secret our farm system is weak.  Time to restock.  Jones is getting older and will be gone in 5 years max. 

 

I rue the day we signed Davis to that absurd contract.  One can only hope he turns it around.

[Spaceman Spiff]

1 hour ago, abdcskins said:

 

 

I rue the day we signed Davis to that absurd contract.  One can only hope he turns it around.

 

I was excited that day.  I'm pretty pissed about it now.  

[Hersh]

5 hours ago, abdcskins said:

I am on the trade Britton and Machado train.  I love Manny, I just don't see him signing here.  Not even sure he would want to.  It's no secret our farm system is weak.  Time to restock.  Jones is getting older and will be gone in 5 years max. 

 

I rue the day we signed Davis to that absurd contract.  One can only hope he turns it around.

Farm system is ranked a lot higher than the past and that doesn’t really take into account if Harvey truly returns to an elite prospect. 

 

I do think it’s a matter of when Manny gets traded and no longer if. I hope sooner than later.

 

Oh, the contracts given out today to relievers definitely increased Brittons trade value. Britton at $12 million is way better than some of these contracts that skewed the reliever market.

[Spaceman Spiff]

1 hour ago, Hersh said:

Farm system is ranked a lot higher than the past and that doesn’t really take into account if Harvey truly returns to an elite prospect. 

 

I do think it’s a matter of when Manny gets traded and no longer if. I hope sooner than later.

 

Oh, the contracts given out today to relievers definitely increased Brittons trade value. Britton at $12 million is way better than some of these contracts that skewed the reliever market.

 

I've always admired your optimism.

 

But I can't rely on any of them.  Especially Harvey.  Our farm system is better because Hays, Mullins, Mountcastle had some good seasons. Sisco could still be good.  I still don't trust anyone.  As it stands, I think most publications would have our system in the middle of the pack.

[Hersh]

2 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

I've always admired your optimism.

 

But I can't rely on any of them.  Especially Harvey.  Our farm system is better because Hays, Mullins, Mountcastle had some good seasons. Sisco could still be good.  I still don't trust anyone.  As it stands, I think most publications would have our system in the middle of the pack.

 

I'll take middle of the pack over where it has been. 

 

If Sedlock gets his act together as a first round pick, that would be a big bonus. He was pretty bad in his first year as a pro. O's have the number 11 pick in the draft this year too which is a lot higher than they have been recently. I really wish baseball allowed the trading of draft picks. That would help when it comes to trading a guy like Manny. 

 

 

PS- I'm not at all optimistic about this season but I will enjoy it if they actually rebuild and play the young guys. 

[Spaceman Spiff]

7 minutes ago, Hersh said:

 

I'll take middle of the pack over where it has been. 

 

If Sedlock gets his act together as a first round pick, that would be a big bonus. He was pretty bad in his first year as a pro. O's have the number 11 pick in the draft this year too which is a lot higher than they have been recently. I really wish baseball allowed the trading of draft picks. That would help when it comes to trading a guy like Manny. 

 

 

PS- I'm not at all optimistic about this season but I will enjoy it if they actually rebuild and play the young guys. 

 

Well, yeah.  Middle of the pack is way better  

 

They graduated Mancini this year, I don't know if anyone expected a season like that.  It's interesting, I've seen people saying that he'll crash next year, I've seen people say that he'll repeat or even be a little better.  I have no idea what to think.  But he was arguably our most consistent hitter last year.

 

They do have some good guys, I believe Hays is the OD right fielder.  I think if Mullins has a great spring and kills it in the minors they trade Jones at the break to a contender.  I love Jones and what he's done for the franchise but if they're not contending it doesn't make sense to keep him and he deserves a shot on a winning team.  Suddenly your outfield is Mancini, Mullins and Hays.  Not bad.

 

Cisco behind the plate, Schoop at 2nd.  Most of the team is now homegrown, which is pretty amazing.  I'm assuming Manny is gone sooner or later.  You've still got to find room for Mountcastle.  I'm not sure where his glove will play.

 

I don't think highly of DJ Stewart but he's shown some progress for sure.  They might have to find a way to get him in the mix, too.  

 

The arms, for me, I just don't have much hope.  They've been able to prove that they can develop some position players, can't say much for the rotation. I'd like to see us get arms back for Machado and anyone else they can trade.  If they can do that, I'll like where we're at.

 

There's a lot to look forward to, definitely.  I just came across this page, liked it a lot, figured you would too:  http://m.mlb.com/prospects/2017/?list=bal

[Hersh]

8 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Well, yeah.  Middle of the pack is way better  

 

 

I don't see any reason why Mancini would have a big drop off. I don't see him being a star but he just seems like a professional hitter that will be pretty consistent. Adjusts well, goes opposite field. 

 

I really wish they could get rid of Trumbo so Mancini could slide over to DH. I'm assuming Jones never gets traded by Angelos, so that would make it Mullins, Jones, and Hays. More speed, though Jones needs to move to a corner spot. 

 

I think the best hitter of the group is going to be Sisco. His swing looks so pure. Don't know how he will do as a catcher, but his swing will keep him in the majors. Seemed to have a good batting eye. Hays will be fun to watch as he will have to adjust to breaking balls away. I hope he is willing to bunt for hits as well with that hustle. I'd be happy with anything .250-.260 and strong defense. 

 

 It will be interesting to see how Mountcastle does in AA this year since will have just turned 21. It just sucks his arm isn't a little bit stronger but maybe it will play at 3rd. This will be a defining year for him when it comes to what position he will play. 

 

When the O's trade Manny and either Brach or Britton or eventually both by the trade deadline, all the prospects either need to be pitchers or left side of the infield players. Getting a real SS prospect out of these trades is a must cause there isn't much there in the organization. 

 

The cool thing about that link at mlb is looking at potential trade partners for the O's/Manny: From St. Louis, I'd take Flaherty, Sosa and Gomber. 

[Hersh]

According to MASN the White Sox made a big offer for Manny. This should increase offers throughout today. 

[Spaceman Spiff]

8 minutes ago, Hersh said:

According to MASN the White Sox made a big offer for Manny. This should increase offers throughout today. 

 

Looking like a deal could be done by the end of the week.

 

Saw that the ChiSox could flip him to the Yankees.  Would make sense, Sox don't seem to have a chance to compete anytime soon, Manny doesn't make sense.