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The 2017 FA Thread - OP Updated with Signings (Sundberg, Galette, VD, Hood re-signed) *** Terrell McClain, Stacy McGee, DJ Swearinger, Terrelle Pryor, Chris Carter, Brian Quick, ZACH BROWN(!!)***

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44 minutes ago, Rattlesnake88 said:

Kerrigan is a lockeroom guy, great character guy from a good family, he has a relentless motor and is more athletic than he looks...ūüôĄ

 

Oh and He is top ten at what he does in the league. Sorry he's not Von Miller.

 

I agree with your first 2 points, not so much with your 3rd. Kerrigan is not all that athletic. He's bad in space, and is not very agile. I'm not sure I would call him top 10 at what he does, especially if you consider what he does is rush the passer. He doesn't make PPF's top 25, but does include DE's and DT's as well. I don't have access, so I can see if they have him rated as a top 10 OLB. But I kinda doubt it.

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-the-nfls-top-25-pass-rushers/

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Posted (edited)

10 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

I agree with your first 2 points, not so much with your 3rd. Kerrigan is not all that athletic. He's bad in space, and is not very agile. I'm not sure I would call him top 10 at what he does, especially if you consider what he does is rush the passer. He doesn't make PPF's top 25, but does include DE's and DT's as well. I don't have access, so I can see if they have him rated as a top 10 OLB. But I kinda doubt it.

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-the-nfls-top-25-pass-rushers/

Well I was playing into some of the stereo types I have heard about him in the list of "positives".

 

When I say top 10 at what he does, I mean as a 3-4 OLB but He is fringe at that. Still a great football player. 

 

Not a huge PFF follower or believer. 

Edited by Rattlesnake88

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1 hour ago, Rattlesnake88 said:

Well I was playing into some of the stereo types I have heard about him in the list of "positives".

 

When I say top 10 at what he does, I mean as a 3-4 OLB but He is fringe at that. Still a great football player. 

 

Not a huge PFF follower or believer. 

Hes good. Hes not great. I'm happy to have him. He doesn't change games, nobody game plans for him and he isn't a "best player on the 7" type of guy. He's a piece, not someone you build around. I'm glad he's on the team, but he isn't much more important than baker was. We have no talent on our defense, outside of Norman. 

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Posted (edited)

12 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Hes good. Hes not great. I'm happy to have him. He doesn't change games, nobody game plans for him and he isn't a "best player on the 7" type of guy. He's a piece, not someone you build around. I'm glad he's on the team, but he isn't much more important than baker was. We have no talent on our defense, outside of Norman. 

What the heck are you talking about? Cravens and Kerrigan are talented. I believe fuller, Bash and Gallette are also talented. We just had major holes last year and a poor scheme.

 

i rushed into this post without adding that the talent we have is negated by the inferior cast they are surrounded by. The players I listed above would look great on New England,Houston or somewhere with more cohesion on that side of the ball.

Edited by Rattlesnake88

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1 hour ago, Rattlesnake88 said:

What the heck are you talking about? Cravens and Kerrigan are talented. I believe fuller, Bash and Gallette are also talented. We just had major holes last year and a poor scheme.

You can put it on scheme, but Kerrigans tackle numbers have come down the last two years a lot. Cravens was injured a lot, but talented sure. Galette hasn't played a down in two years. Fuller was torn up and benched. Bash should have been.

 

Give me a break. The defense being **** wasn't all on Barry. He sucked and I wanted him fired and manusky promoted before the bye, but no. Our defense is not talented and it's gotten worse.

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5 minutes ago, Rattlesnake88 said:

What the heck are you talking about? Cravens and Kerrigan are talented. I believe fuller, Bash and Gallette are also talented. We just had major holes last year and a poor scheme.

 

i rushed into this post without adding that the talent we have is negated by the inferior cast they are surrounded by. The players I listed above would look great on New England,Houston or somewhere with more cohesion on that side of the ball.

 

I think KB was talking elite talent. And I would agree. We don't have anyone besides Norman that would be on par with say, Trent Williams, Jordan Reed, or even Kirk Cousins on defense. We have a couple good players, Kerrigan being one of them, a couple guys that might become good players but have not arrived, and a bunch of scrubs. Breeland has been really up and down, and Galette has not played a snap for us, and might physically be done.

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1 hour ago, Morneblade said:

 

I think KB was talking elite talent. And I would agree. We don't have anyone besides Norman that would be on par with say, Trent Williams, Jordan Reed, or even Kirk Cousins on defense. We have a couple good players, Kerrigan being one of them, a couple guys that might become good players but have not arrived, and a bunch of scrubs. Breeland has been really up and down, and Galette has not played a snap for us, and might physically be done.

Exactly right. Williams, Norman and Kirk are elite talent. If reed was a complete player and healthy I'd add him.

 

Offenses were excited to play us. They dodge Norman and pick on everyone else.

 

Could you imagine if we didn't have a good passing offense and teams could do what they want? Holy ****.

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13 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

I think KB was talking elite talent. And I would agree. We don't have anyone besides Norman that would be on par with say, Trent Williams, Jordan Reed, or even Kirk Cousins on defense. We have a couple good players, Kerrigan being one of them, a couple guys that might become good players but have not arrived, and a bunch of scrubs. Breeland has been really up and down, and Galette has not played a snap for us, and might physically be done.

Ok well most teams only have 1-2 elite talent guys on either side of the ball. I think we are pretty on par in that aspect. The issue is we have too many scrubs in the center of the field. Subpar 3-4 lineman and maybe worst safety situation in football(but not now).

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Feel like we do this every offseason.

 

I'd say Kerrigan is 1) very good, but not elite, and 2) his career numbers are very impressive due to his relative consistency and health.  

 

Overall, a great player for this team/fanbase, even if he's not one of the NFL greats.  

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Posted (edited)

21 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

You can put it on scheme, but Kerrigans tackle numbers have come down the last two years a lot. Cravens was injured a lot, but talented sure. Galette hasn't played a down in two years. Fuller was torn up and benched. Bash should have been.

 

Give me a break. The defense being **** wasn't all on Barry. He sucked and I wanted him fired and manusky promoted before the bye, but no. Our defense is not talented and it's gotten worse.

Barry doesn't help. But you are right personel as a whole was bad, but I won't buy that Norman is the only talented dude on the defense. Fuller was a rookie coming off of serious injury previous season, playing slot against Beasley and Diggs, I'll give him a break before I give you one. How the heck is our defense worse now that we have talent at safety?

 

 

 

I guess my biggest issue is why pick on one of our best assets on a defense with not much to be proud of? Seems silly to me, the guy(Kerrigan) has been solid, year in and out since being drafted. Yea we could have had Watt, but a lot of teams whiffed instead we have a yearly 10 sack guy who can force fumbles. I'll take it. 

Edited by Rattlesnake88

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1 hour ago, Rattlesnake88 said:

Barry doesn't help. But you are right personel as a whole was bad, but I won't buy that Norman is the only talented dude on the defense. Fuller was a rookie coming off of serious injury previous season, playing slot against Beasley and Diggs, I'll give him a break before I give you one.

I hope he proves me wrong, but he hasn't. That's all that matters. He can be the most talented corner around, but if he gets beat on every week, too bad. If Kerrigan doesn't tackle people, he's not a talent either.

 

Every player in the NFL is "talented" and they're all "football players" too, but if they don't produce,  **** um.

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Just now, Koolblue13 said:

I hope he proves me wrong, but he hasn't. That's all that matters. He can be the most talented corner around, but if he gets beat on every week, too bad. If Kerrigan doesn't tackle people, he's not a talent either.

 

Every player in the NFL is "talented" and they're all "football players" too, but if they don't produce,  **** um.

You know our defense is like an 11 link chain with 6 links that are gaping and need to be bolstered or welded. You are blaming the 4 or five fortified links because of the other clown pieces of chain. I won't buy that fuller is trash or that Kerrigan can't tackle. Kerrigan is made to rush the passer and set the edges. He does that mostly, he got exposed really bad on misdirection and playaction this season but how much of that falls on Compton/theDl/Barry and what happens during the week at practice before the games?

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The way people are talking about Kerrigan sounds quite familiar. Back in the day we had an LB who people described almost exactly the same: An okay player but "doesn't produce". Hm, can't think of his name right now.

 

In totally unrelated news, the Titans seem quite pleased Brian Orakpo, saying that they signed him when they needed a playmaker on defense and that he's filled the role. Wish we had a playmaker like him, eh? :)

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1 minute ago, Rattlesnake88 said:

You know our defense is like an 11 link chain with 6 links that are gaping and need to be bolstered or welded. You are blaming the 4 or five fortified links because of the other clown pieces of chain. I won't buy that fuller is trash or that Kerrigan can't tackle. Kerrigan is made to rush the passer and set the edges. He does that mostly, he got exposed really bad on misdirection and playaction this season but how much of that falls on Compton/theDl/Barry and what happens during the week at practice before the games?

I'm not going to downplay our lack of talent, but I think a lot of the problems could be directly attributed to Barry.  His scheme was overly complicated. How many times did we see players out there looking out of place and confused?  It was like Keystone Cops out there at times.  Keep it simple. Like Doc Walker said, "just tackle the guy with the damn ball, it ain't brain surgery!"  While that might be somewhat over simplified, there's a lot of truth in that statement. 

 

A good coach would've/should've gotten more out of average players. 

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Kerrigan is not elite, but he's a very good player that would be snapped up in Free Agency... Orakpo wasn't in the same conversation, as he couldn't stay healthy here, lest we forgot..

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6 hours ago, Morneblade said:

 

Joe Barry had an attacking 1 gap Scheme. So, if Manusky does that, he will be using the exact same scheme that Joe Barry did. This would not be a change

Some insight:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/football-insider/wp/2017/01/23/a-closer-look-at-what-greg-manuskys-redskins-defense-might-look-like/?utm_term=.0ff07b0eaa0e

 

He also has used a 2 gap scheme in the past.

 

Matt Ioannidis didn't do much last year. He is a project and still is one at this point. He was also 5th round pick. Not that much expected from.

Long was a high 3rd and Moses was a 2nd. More expected from those rounds.

 

Oh lord. You just linked me Mark Bullock. ūüėāūüė≠

 

That dude has no idea what hes talking about most of the time. 

 

Manusky used a one gap in Indy. He will most likely use it here. He said in his last interview he wanted to be aggressive. 

 

Also, Moses was a 3rd rounder. 

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1 hour ago, Rattlesnake88 said:

You know our defense is like an 11 link chain with 6 links that are gaping and need to be bolstered or welded. You are blaming the 4 or five fortified links because of the other clown pieces of chain. I won't buy that fuller is trash or that Kerrigan can't tackle. Kerrigan is made to rush the passer and set the edges. He does that mostly, he got exposed really bad on misdirection and playaction this season but how much of that falls on Compton/theDl/Barry and what happens during the week at practice before the games?

And that's fine and I'll lay plenty of blame on scheme too, but when your star LBer has 26 tackles, it's perfectly fine to question his game too.

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10 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I hope he proves me wrong, but he hasn't. That's all that matters. He can be the most talented corner around, but if he gets beat on every week, too bad. If Kerrigan doesn't tackle people, he's not a talent either.

 

Every player in the NFL is "talented" and they're all "football players" too, but if they don't produce,  **** um.

 

This is not just addressed to you @Koolblue13 as several others have brought up Kerrigan's tackle numbers. Just using yours to respond.

 

A couple things.

1. At least last year teams were not running to his side as much. Runs to the offensive right side or the Redskins left side:

2013 - 31%

2014 - 28%

2015 - 29%

2016 - 23%

 

2. I could not find the snap break down for any other year, but at least last year, Kerrigan was in on passing downs much more than rushing downs:

Pass snaps 497 (473 pass rush/24 coverage) - Rush snaps - 290 - 24 coverage snaps. For reference, Josh Norman played almost every snap and had 650 passing snaps (646 coverage/4 pass rush) and 409 rushing snaps - 119 more than Kerrigan.

 

So I think when you say scheme, it's what were they asking him to do. If you are in on more passing downs, you will not have as many chances for tackles. Also, has was not in coverage very much. They mostly used him to pass rush. That will lessen your tackles. 

 

If someone has access to more advanced statistics - it would be interesting to see the snap count breakdown for Kerrigan over the last 4 years. My guess is he was playing more rushing downs in Haslett's scheme that under Barry. But I do not know that to be fact.

 

I do not think Kerrigan is elite per-se. But he is very close. He is that next level down. He has been slowed by some minor but nagging injuries. Also, if there was a better push up the middle he would get home more often in the pass rush. Not taking anything away from Von Miller or JJ Watt and not saying Kerrigan in in a better situation would be that dominant, but people have to admit both those guys have great DLines in front of them.

 

On paper right now, they may not be much if any better on Dline. But the opportunity is there. You know what you had in Baker and he was OK but certainly nothing special. I hate it when guys take plays off. I didn't dislike him and would have been fine if they wanted to keep him. But not losing any sleep over him being gone.  

 

McClain and McGee have a chance to get better. Also, and much more importantly, I have to think if Manusky really wanted to keep Baker, they would have at least made an offer. Fees like it's a kind of cleaning house. But I could be wrong. Not in the room with them so it's clearly just a guess on my part.

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Just now, Koolblue13 said:

And that's fine and I'll lay plenty of blame on scheme too, but when your star LBer has 26 tackles, it's perfectly fine to question his game too.

Pro bowl linebacker

 

off topic how bout those game****s right now. I know it's far from over but they are giving Duke a run.

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4 minutes ago, Rattlesnake88 said:

Pro bowl linebacker

 

off topic how bout those game****s right now. I know it's far from over but they are giving Duke a run.

 

they are looling like the best game**** bball team ive ever seen...the hustle man

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32 minutes ago, William Barbour said:

 

Oh lord. You just linked me Mark Bullock. ūüėāūüė≠

 

That dude has no idea what hes talking about most of the time. 

 

Manusky used a one gap in Indy. He will most likely use it here. He said in his last interview he wanted to be aggressive. 

 

Also, Moses was a 3rd rounder. 

 

Right about Moses, 66th pick in the draft. Very high 3rd rounder. My mistake.

 

As for everything else, apparently you agree. Same scheme, a 1 gap attacking one. Which I already said.

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10 minutes ago, Rattlesnake88 said:

Pro bowl linebacker

 

off topic how bout those game****s right now. I know it's far from over but they are giving Duke a run.

 

Hope they beat duke. Always a good day when duke loses... 

 

7 minutes ago, The Mayor of Fed Ex Field said:

 

Sounds like a 1 yr deal. He has not gotten much interest. If he is cheap enough, bring him in and see what he's got. He has not really played much the last two years.

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6 minutes ago, Rattlesnake88 said:

Oh jeez. Does he have anything left?

 

I'll just go ahead and say it.

Vet min +incentives.

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