Mike Shanahan Tells All on ESPN 980 (RGIII, McNabb, Manning, Haynseworth) Link included w/ Audio

[gtn130]

There is a difference between Snyder being involved, and Snyder making the decisions on who to sign. 

 

I think this can be overstated. Snyder can very easily pressure someone into making their own decision that is actually his. Bosses/managers do this sort of thing all the time in all professions. There is a lot of grey area between "Snyder makes decisions" and "Snyder advises on decisions" -- I mean they're basically the same thing imo if you factor in any human element and don't assume that Snyder 100% abides by his own policies at all times. 

 

Snyder is the owner of the franchise. It's his possession, his toy. He can do what he wants just like all the other owners in pro sports. The difference between Snyder and the many, many other MEDDLING OWNERS is that most of the other involved owners are actually good at it, so it's not a story (see Mark Cuban). 

 

How can anyone possibly know how involved each and every pro sports owner is? I'm guessing that nearly every owner is more involved than the public realizes. 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

Yup. There's a reason that EVERY coach seems to make the same kinds of stupid trades / signings since Danny has been here.

[Darrell Green Fan]

Yup. There's a reason that EVERY coach seems to make the same kinds of stupid trades / signings since Danny has been here.

 

Bingo.  15 years guys, it's not an accident any more than the Wizards finally starting to win when ownership changed. Has any coach hired by Snyder lived up to their history in other stops?  I can't think of one. 

[TheLongshot]

Yup. There's a reason that EVERY coach seems to make the same kinds of stupid trades / signings since Danny has been here.

 

It is because most head coaches don't make for very good GMs.  There are rare exceptions, but for the most part having a coach select his own players is usually a disaster.  Shanahan was bad at it before coming here, and he wasn't suddenly going to get better at it.

[fjblair]

LMAO at the people defending Danny boy. Gee I guess all the coaches are just liars.

[grego]

There is a difference between Snyder being involved, and Snyder making the decisions on who to sign. It was well known that Snyder met with Gibbs on a regular basis, and a lot of decisions were made as a group with Snyder in the room, but Gibbs had final call on all players, and Snyder deferred to him on all decisions.

I don't at all believe it was much different with Shanahan, other than Snyder and Shanahan didn't have nearly as close of a relationship. Snyder will give any coach with full control enough rope to hang himself with.

Thanks. Saved me from having to respond, which is good cuz I'm supposed to be working.

[gtn130]

Thanks. Saved me from having to respond, which is good cuz I'm supposed to be working.

 

If I were you I wouldn't respond either, since you've been wrong at every turn

[Darrell Green Fan]

LMAO at the people defending Danny boy. Gee I guess all the coaches are just liars.

 

 

This is a weird place I gotta tell you.  Great traffic and most are really good posters.   But defending this owner, this QB's antics, and finally claiming that Griffin is not a bad pocket passer, are quite honestly positions I am surprised have support. 

[grego]

How can anyone possibly know how involved each and every pro sports owner is? I'm guessing that nearly every owner is more involved than the public realizes.

I agree. But I think sometimes we have to put our preconceptions aside and use common sense.

That's why I don't think Dan went to Mike 3 months after handing him the keys and said "btw, you have to work with this guy as your qb".

And round and around we go......

[Darrell Green Fan]

It is because most head coaches don't make for very good GMs.  There are rare exceptions, but for the most part having a coach select his own players is usually a disaster.  Shanahan was bad at it before coming here, and he wasn't suddenly going to get better at it.

 

Like the 2 guys in the last Super Bowl?

[darrelgreenie]

This is a weird place I gotta tell you. Great traffic and most are really good posters. But defending this owner, this QB's antics, and finally claiming that Griffin is not a bad pocket passer, is quite honestly positions I am surprised have support.

Hook, line and sinker.

Mike S is sneaky smart sob.

[grego]

If I were you I wouldn't respond either, since you've been wrong at every turn

 

 

well, it wouldnt be the first time for that.

[gtn130]

I agree. But I think sometimes we have to put our preconceptions aside and use common sense.

That's why I don't think Dan went to Mike 3 months after handing him the keys and said "btw, you have to work with this guy as your qb".

And round and around we go......

 

Dude, no one is suggesting anything like that. You act as if the only possibilities are:

 

A. Snyder had complete authoritative control over football operations

B. He had no control at all and never involved himself in any way

 

There is middle ground there, and I'm positive reality is somewhere in that middle ground. Again, this all goes back to the erroneous belief that Shanahan had 100% unmitigated control of football decisions -- he didn't. Just like how Gibbs didn't, who you've given a free pass to. 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Hook, line and sinker.

Mike S is sneaky smart sob.

 

I have no idea if this is an agreement with me or a shot at me. 

Dude, no one is suggesting anything like that. You act as if the only possibilities are:

 

A. Snyder had complete authoritative control over football operations

B. He had no control at all and never involved himself in any way

 

There is middle ground there, and I'm positive reality is somewhere in that middle ground. Again, this all goes back to the erroneous belief that Shanahan had 100% unmitigated control of football decisions -- he didn't. Just like how Gibbs didn't, who you've given a free pass to. 

 

Thank you, it's been lonely around here the past 2 days. 

[pjfootballer]

Bingo. 15 years guys, it's not an accident any more than the Wizards finally starting to win when ownership changed. Has any coach hired by Snyder lived up to their history in other stops? I can't think of one.

Wait a minute. Leonsis became majority team onwer of the Wizards in 2010. Their win total year by year has been 23, 20, 29, 44 and now 33. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for Ted. They have not even sniffed a championship and I've said it before in the Wizards thread, if fans think 44 wins should be a high mark, then you guys have seriously low standards. One season of 44 wins isn't exactly "starting to win" in my book.

Not to mention that Ernie and Randy should have been gone prior to last year, but saved themselves. They are at 33-23 and sliding fast. They still have a long way to go. Only the Caps have been somewhat good under him, but they've been playoff chokers. Better things need to happen in Wizard's Land before we go crowning Ted "Owner of the Year." He handicaps the Wizards and Capitals by being "too loyal" to his GMs and coaches. Just what Snyder was accused of being with Vinny.

[gtn130]

Wait a minute. Leonsis became majority team onwer of the Wizards in 2010. Their win total year by year has been 23, 20, 29, 44 and now 33. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for Ted. They have not even sniffed a championship and I've said it before in the Wizards thread, if fans think 44 wins should be a high mark, then you guys have seriously low standards. One season of 44 wins isn't exactly "starting to win" in my book.

Not to mention that Ernie and Randy should have been gone prior to last year, but saved themselves. They are at 33-23 and sliding fast. They still have a long way to go. Only the Caps have been somewhat good under him, but they've been playoff chokers. Better things need to happen in Wizard's Land before we go crowning Ted "Owner of the Year." He handicaps the Wizards and Capitals by being "too loyal" to his GMs and coaches. Just what Snyder was accused of being with Vinny.

 

Leonsis, EG and Wittman are all terrible at what they do. The analogy didn't work for me either, but I didn't want to completely derail the thread lol

[TheLongshot]

Dude, no one is suggesting anything like that. You act as if the only possibilities are:

 

A. Snyder had complete authoritative control over football operations

B. He had no control at all and never involved himself in any way

 

There is middle ground there, and I'm positive reality is somewhere in that middle ground. Again, this all goes back to the erroneous belief that Shanahan had 100% unmitigated control of football decisions -- he didn't. Just like how Gibbs didn't, who you've given a free pass to. 

 

As I said above, Snyder gives decision makers enough rope to hang themselves with.  What I believed happened is that Shanahan was interested in McNabb, but balked at the price.  He discussed it with Snyder and Snyder encouraged him to make the decision if Shanahan felt it was the best football decision for the team.  Shanahan pulls the trigger.  Afterwards, when Shanahan had buyers remorse, in his mind he blames Snyder for giving him that rope. 

 

To me, this is the problem with giving coaches that kind of control.  Most coaches are going to make short-term decisions on what is best for the team now, because that is their focus.  That is why I wouldn't give any coach full control, because the temptation to make short-term decisions over long-term planning is always going to be there.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

_{We know for a fact that Snyder was giving input on free agency, the draft, and how the team should be built when Gibbs was here. We know he was watching workouts and meeting with prospects afterward. We know he was negotiating free agency contracts. We know he was threatening to end our WRs career and send him a flat screen TV to watch games on. We know he was buddying up to our RB.}

 

_{If Gibbs was indeed the one behind some of the moves that were made when he was here (and some of the proposed moves that fell through), then maybe Gibbs isn't the master that we thought he was because there was some stupid, stupid decision making going on there. Coincidentally, they shared the same prints as many other strategic maneuvering that has gone on since Lil Danny got his fingers on our team.}

[pjfootballer]

Leonsis, EG and Wittman are all terrible at what they do. The analogy didn't work for me either, but I didn't want to completely derail the thread lol

I don't either, but as a Skins, Wiz and Caps fan, I couldn't let they go. Leonsis has been OK, but not great. Ok, no thread derail amymore.

[grego]

As I said above, Snyder gives decision makers enough rope to hang themselves with.  What I believed happened is that Shanahan was interested in McNabb, but balked at the price.  He discussed it with Snyder and Snyder encouraged him to make the decision if Shanahan felt it was the best football decision for the team.  Shanahan pulls the trigger.  Afterwards, when Shanahan had buyers remorse, in his mind he blames Snyder for giving him that rope. 

 

 

 

agreed.

 

then, 5 years later, he can tell the story in such a way that appears to take him off the hook. "i think dan wanted donovan the most".....well, i dont doubt that for one minute.

 

 

 

_{If Gibbs was indeed the one behind some of the moves that were made when he was here (and some of the proposed moves that fell through), then maybe Gibbs isn't the master that we thought he was because there was some stupid, stupid decision making going on there.} 

 

i dont think theres any question gibbs has made some bad personnel moves. desmond howard, iirc, comes to mind.

[gtn130]

As I said above, Snyder gives decision makers enough rope to hang themselves with.  What I believed happened is that Shanahan was interested in McNabb, but balked at the price.  He discussed it with Snyder and Snyder encouraged him to make the decision if Shanahan felt it was the best football decision for the team.  Shanahan pulls the trigger.  Afterwards, when Shanahan had buyers remorse, in his mind he blames Snyder for giving him that rope. 

 

To me, this is the problem with giving coaches that kind of control.  Most coaches are going to make short-term decisions on what is best for the team now, because that is their focus.  That is why I wouldn't give any coach full control, because the temptation to make short-term decisions over long-term planning is always going to be there.

 

I really think we're splitting hairs here. I don't see the difference between Snyder openly working as a team with Gibbs and Vinny and Snyder coaxing/pressuring Shanahan into making decisions he wants behind the facade of it being Shanahan's choice.

 

Like I've said many times, the latter is something bosses/managers do in every profession and it just boils down to their personality and how much BS they're willing to shovel in order to continue the farce that their underlings are making the decisions themselves.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

i dont think theres any question gibbs has made some bad personnel moves. desmond howard, iirc, comes to mind.

Well lots of people miss in the draft. Only one franchise repeatedly and consistently makes moves like trading two draft picks for Brandon Lloyd and then giving him a monster contract before his first snap.

[grego]

I really think we're splitting hairs here. I don't see the difference between Snyder openly working as a team with Gibbs and Vinny and Snyder coaxing/pressuring Shanahan into making decisions he wants behind the facade of it being Shanahan's choice.

 

 

i do think theres a huge difference, in the case of mcnabb, with mike not wanting him (as many believe) and mike wanting him, and danny saying 'if it takes a third along with a second, then go for it'.

 

i think the latter is what happened.

[Taylor703]

LMAO at the people defending Danny boy. Gee I guess all the coaches are just liars.

Jesus Christ nobody is defending Snyder, they're not letting Shanahan off the hook. There's a difference and some of you choose to ignore that.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

Let's all agree that Shanahan and Snyder are both terrible.

 

I have more hate for the one who has done the greater amount of damage and who is still here to ruin our team for the next 30 years.