steve09ru Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 rooting against someone who has yet to suit up in Redskins gear... thought I had heard it all - most of this fan base doesn't deserve **** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 rooting against someone who has yet to suit up in Redskins gear... thought I had heard it all - most of this fan base doesn't deserve **** You haven't remotely "heard it all", remember, the difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laron Burgundy Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 That's an interesting take. I've never been able to root against the Skins... Even when I saw a silver lining in losing for draft picks... I always enjoy winning. I hope the team turns out awesome. And if it doesn't, there is some solace in the fact we'll likely be rebuilding the staff. But first and foremost, I want success. I wouldn't root against the team for higher draft picks, but to get rid of a coaching staff I loathe? I guess it really depends what you see the team as. Is it the players? The coaches? The entire corporation from top to bottom? An unidentifiable ideal disassociated from the people in it?For me these coaches have made a mockery of the team. They aren't the team. Winning cures all though, even Vinny wouldn't have been ran out of town had we started winning under him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve09ru Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I wouldn't root against the team for higher draft picks, but to get rid of a coaching staff I loathe? I guess it really depends what you see the team as. Is it the players? The coaches? The entire corporation from top to bottom? An unidentifiable ideal disassociated from the people in it? For me these coaches have made a mockery of the team. They aren't the team. Winning cures all though, even Vinny wouldn't have been ran out of town had we started winning under him. And guess what - what now have one of the best personnel guys in the league. How about letting them build something with talent rather then just throwing darts at a draft board and see how these coaches pan out with someone like that rather then say, i can't wait for these people to fail or I hope these people fail. Guess what? If these coaches fail then the players fail then the GM fails and we aren't improving at any one aspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laron Burgundy Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 rooting against someone who has yet to suit up in Redskins gear... thought I had heard it all - most of this fan base doesn't deserve **** Yeah, it's weird that fans don't like it when coaches make a mockery of the team by hiring bottom feeding coordinators. Maybe the team's motto this year should be friendship is magic. And guess what - what now have one of the best personnel guys in the league. How about letting them build something with talent rather then just throwing darts at a draft board and see how these coaches pan out with someone like that rather then say, i can't wait for these people to fail or I hope these people fail. Guess what? If these coaches fail then the players fail then the GM fails and we aren't improving at any one aspect. This gm isn't attached to these coaches. These coaches can fail and then we can start over with candidates who are actually qualified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve09ru Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 This gm isn't attached to these coaches. These coaches can fail and then we can start over with candidates who are actually qualified. This couldn't be more wrong. He is attached to these coaches. Using your logic, the only players Gruden is attached to are the players drafted last year, right? So he shouldn't be graded on how players on the team prior to him becoming coach performed, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatkinsonSkins Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I say give the guy a chance. There were plenty of guys for the pickings, he just won jay over. Being a coach myself, your bound to hit a bump in the road. After his tenture in Detroit, he's been a pretty solid coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 This couldn't be more wrong. He is attached to these coaches. Using your logic, the only players Gruden is attached to are the players drafted last year, right? So he shouldn't be graded on how players on the team prior to him becoming coach performed, right? I think he was simply saying that this is a bonus year for McCloughan. If it works, excellent! Woohoo! If it doesn't? Excellent! Woohoo! New staff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laron Burgundy Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 This couldn't be more wrong. He is attached to these coaches. Using your logic, the only players Gruden is attached to are the players drafted last year, right? So he shouldn't be graded on how players on the team prior to him becoming coach performed, right? Couldn't be more wrong? I don't know if you could be more wrong than to say that I couldn't be more wrong. McCloughan can fire gruden next year and it wouldn't be held against him at all. I don't think you understand how an nfl team works. GM's aren't held responsible for their predecessor's work. GM's don't develop coaches. Coaches are held responsible for developing players under their control, not just players drafted when they were hired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I think he was simply saying that this is a bonus year for McCloughan. If it works, excellent! Woohoo! If it doesn't? Excellent! Woohoo! New staff! Well done. Made a silk purse (and comparatively reasonable position) out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 Being a coach myself, your bound to hit a bump in the road. After his tenture in Detroit, he's been a pretty solid coach. Definitely agree on a whole here. Besides, if people really want to compare the whole Haslett things versus Barry, I can say this: Haslett had a track record of defenses getting worse in more than one stop throughout his tenure. New Orleans in 96. Pittsburgh 97-99. New Orleans 00-05. Rams 06-08. Joe Barry had two years as the "in name only" defensive coordinator with perhaps the worst front office in the NFL at the time and a defense that made the 2014 Redskins D look like the Steel Curtain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I keep seeing the negative posters saying that "when" they fire Gruden after this year, the Scot can hire his own coach. He was a regional scout for the Packers, then college scouting director for the Seahawks, Vice President of player personnel with the Niners, promoted to GM and then a senior personnel executive for SF. He was never asked to hire a coach in any if his non-GM positions and the short time he was GM, Nolan was fired and they promoted Singletary to coach. So, the only time he was tasked to hire a head coach, the coach failed. So basically he doesn't even have the experience of a full blown coach search as they just promoted Singletary and he stayed for 2 1/2 years. His area of expertise is finding players. He doesn't have a lot of experience finding coaches at this point and you know that Bruce and Dan would be a part of that search. Every team's owner is involved in the coaching search. This is not something specific to the Redskins and you're a fool if you think otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinInsite Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I was drumming to get Gruden out of here but only because I thought that's the only way Bruce would relinquish the role of a GM. Now that the Skins have a good personnel guy coaches should be the last thing on anyone's mind. Once the Skins get some talent in here to go 8 - 8 for a couple of years then we can talk about coaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbunny Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Sure Barry deserves a chance. I really don't see the point in criticizing now when he hasn't even sniffed Redskins Park yet. It's highly doubtful we'll end up in the SB, even the playoffs next year so, why not. To me the biggest acquisition so far is our new GM. If he can net us good players in the upcoming drafts, we'll be fine. On another note, lately everyone as been ecstatic about those 3 guys: - Jim Schwartz: No one is interviewing him. He turned us down as said, he might be without a job in the NFL this year... - Wade Philips: No one is interviewing him. Guess he'll remain retired. - Vic Fangio: He just got saw HC job stolen from Jim Tomsula, his own DL Coach in SF. He got 2 interviews with CHI and us. Still, there's HC gigs open in ATL, and DC in NYJ, DEN or OAK. He wasn't that sought after all in all. There's head scratching hire throughout the league, Jim Tomsula being the first of them to me. I'm really wondering how do the 49ers fans see this move. So is Joe Barry a good move, time will tell. Definately not sexy at first glance, but he still deserves a chance. Especially if Scot do is job right. In Detroit he had Matt Millen as a GM, Zorn had Cerrato, that's quite scary. Give the guy a break, and give him a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve09ru Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Couldn't be more wrong? I don't know if you could be more wrong than to say that I couldn't be more wrong. McCloughan can fire gruden next year and it wouldn't be held against him at all. I don't think you understand how an nfl team works. GM's aren't held responsible for their predecessor's work. GM's don't develop coaches. Coaches are held responsible for developing players under their control, not just players drafted when they were hired. I understand how it all works - I was simply using it to show that bashing a coach for players that were chosen prior to him coming in and possibly not fitting the style/system isn't always on the coach either. It's the old saying, you can't make (fill in the blank) out of ****. It's easy to look at what happened in one year (or in many cases on this board, one day) and say someone should be fired because they either a. didn't have a good year last year or b. you don't like a hire/move/acquisition. Probably a poor and extreme example I used but it was more so to make a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laron Burgundy Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I keep seeing the negative posters saying that "when" they fire Gruden after this year, the Scot can hire his own coach. He was a regional scout for the Packers, then college scouting director for the Seahawks, Vice President of player personnel with the Niners, promoted to GM and then a senior personnel executive for SF. He was never asked to hire a coach in any if his non-GM positions and the short time he was GM, Nolan was fired and they promoted Singletary to coach. So, the only time he was tasked to hire a head coach, the coach failed. So basically he doesn't even have the experience of a full blown coach search as they just promoted Singletary and he stayed for 2 1/2 years. His area of expertise is finding players. He doesn't have a lot of experience finding coaches at this point and you know that Bruce and Dan would be a part of that search. Every team's owner is involved in the coaching search. This is not something specific to the Redskins and you're a fool if you think otherwise. Singletary was promoted, so he didn't really have a coaching search there, but Singletary was 13-12 in his first year and a half when the team was 7-16 the previous year and a half. Yes, McCloughlan hasn't hired his own coach, but no, unlike the Tampa Bay gang, he's actually shown to be a promising football mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike42 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 We have no choice but to root for him. Contract is signed and we are screwed. He's not even a top tier linebackers coach. Barry will be gone after 2015. Too many reasons why this is the biggest blunder hire I've ever seen. Worse than Zorn. I say give the guy a chance. There were plenty of guys for the pickings, he just won jay over. Being a coach myself, your bound to hit a bump in the road. After his tenture in Detroit, he's been a pretty solid coach. San Diego won't miss him. When you hire a defensive coordinator for a pro team, he should be "good" NOT "solid". At any workplace, would u give a person with a awful track record a interview and hire them? You wouldn't. Unless you play favoritism (buddy/buddy) relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 We have no choice but to root for him. Contract is signed and we are screwed. He's not even a top tier linebackers coach. Barry will be gone after 2015. Too many reasons why this is the biggest blunder hire I've ever seen. Worse than Zorn. If you're right, hey, that's okay. We'll get an entire new staff. If you're wrong, hey, that's okay. We're a good football team! I see so much potential for wins I see images of Charlie Sheen dancing in my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laron Burgundy Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I understand how it all works - I was simply using it to show that bashing a coach for players that were chosen prior to him coming in and possibly not fitting the style/system isn't always on the coach either. It's the old saying, you can't make (fill in the blank) out of ****. It's easy to look at what happened in one year (or in many cases on this board, one day) and say someone should be fired because they either a. didn't have a good year last year or b. you don't like a hire/move/acquisition. How about this chicken (fill in the blank): the chargers have drafted 6 linebackers in the first two rounds over the past 6 years. Comparitively we've had only 7 picks TOTAL in the first two rounds over that same time period. Not a single one of those 6 linebackers played well under barry. You have that much talent drafted to your unit and none of them play well? You can ignore the situation in Detroit completely and still have signs showing that Barry isn't very good at his job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 How about this chicken (fill in the blank): the chargers have drafted 6 linebackers in the first two rounds over the past 6 years. Comparitively we've had only 7 picks TOTAL in the first two rounds over that same time period. Not a single one of those 6 linebackers played well under barry. You have that much talent drafted to your unit and none of them play well? You can ignore the situation in Detroit completely and still have signs showing that Barry isn't very good at his job. Here's the thing... I don't think anyone is trying to convince you that Barry was a good hire. You seem to keep going back to that. What people are trying to say is: give the guy a chance. Keep your opinion, that's all good. But rooting for the team to lose, as you said earlier, is a bit... Uhm... over the ledge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 If you're right, hey, that's okay. We'll get an entire new staff. If you're wrong, hey, that's okay. We're a good football team! I see so much potential for wins I see images of Charlie Sheen dancing in my head. I see it the same way. If this dude is the real goods and Jay saw something that the rest of the league didn't -- great, we got a good defensive coach. If its Jay went off the beaten path and pulled a lemon when he had more established choices to cull from -- it will speed up his demise. So its ultimately a win win for Jay backers or haters. I agree with the spirit of the thread. My only disclaimer is this is a team that has sold us on hope during Danny's tenure and asked us to buy in to this or that new story. I think at this stage of the game under Danny's tenure -- IMO skepticism and not buying into the off season stories in a way is healthy. This team has marketed hope in many different forms for a long time now. The whole idea of just sit back and trust them -- IMO they have burned that bridge with many including myself. But to Barry specifically, let see what happens. I do miss Gregg Williams' spunk and fire on the sidelines and the week leading up to the games. I used to watch his Thursday pressers and found them entertaining. Haz as a personality seemed to have little spark. Jay seems to be selling this guy as a fireball so that to me is a plus. Granted, I need more than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 The original post is a good one and we, as fans, are left in a position where we do not really understand or appreciate the hire of Barry and have no infatuation with it and suspect it will end badly, but have only the hope this will be the year things start to turn around. It would be a fun story for all of us if Barry is the reason we began to turn it around. If rumors are true and he employs a simple one-gap, penetration style defense where it's reasonably easy to get guys to be in the right place, maybe he'll be the reason we start making big plays on that side of the ball and it helps get our offense going. Hiring a young guy with energy is not a bad thing, in and of itself. You can understand that thought process. The problem with Barry is Barry himself. Though fans here generally and ignorantly feel his time in Detroit is on him and not the head coach who installed the system and called the defensive plays, his time in Detroit is the HIGHEST he's achieved professionally. So, when hiring a young, hot guy, you'd like him to be that guy with TOTAL shine. The Seahawks, everyone under Quinn, would be young and hot. It doesn't matter if we don't know anything about any of them. ANY of them would be hot because no one has had to wake up with any of them in the morning. With Barry, because he was a name-only DC in Detroit, people feel they've woken up with him. And sometimes they don't look as good in the morning as they do in the magazine. You know? So, while I also join ALL of you in thinking the Barry hire is the wrong one for us and would have killed for Phillips or Schwartz (but couldn't care less about Fangio really), IF we are going with a young hottie, let's, just for a minute, imagine Barry wasn't a name-only DC in Detroit under his defensive coordinator, head coach father-in-law. Let's imagine he's just a 44-year-old position coach with a reasonable track record doing that and a good reputation doing that. If we do JUST that, and we have to hire a young hottie, one could believe he's as young and hot as any of the others who really have proven NOTHING at all as a coordinator also. Barry being DC on an 0-16 Lions team is no worse than the secondary coach of the Seahawks who's never actually been a defensive coordinator either, not even in name. Though I also do not want Barry, I DO want an aggressive, dictating defense. I do not think we have the size or type of players to allow a successful two-gap system. I do not believe we are intelligent enough to properly fill in a read scheme on defense, though, in fairness, we've generally been an OK run defense. I do not believe our secondary is capable of soft, zone coverages. They just aren't. So when Haz blitzes 8, but has three in coverage 15-yards-off, it will never work. Having them in press may work and you may still give up big plays because someone is better than you, but you may give up fewer out of the total incoherence and confusion Hazlett's defenses had as staples. I like hearing the possibility we will try to dictate what the other team can do against us and create big plays, for and against, by moving to an assigned spot and all that. Barry is not my choice, but THAT defense (though, more in a 4-3 as I'm a traditional Redskin guy and all) is something I would want so I will hope Barry, in his first time running an actual defense and calling the plays, can do it well. If not, we all know we only have one more year of this. So, it's not that much more long suffering before something changes . And maybe, just maybe, it'll change sooner, because, for once, they won't suck as much as they generally have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 I agree with the spirit of the thread. My only disclaimer is this is a team that has sold us on hope during Danny's tenure and asked us to buy in to this or that new story. I think at this stage of the game under Danny's tenure -- IMO skepticism and not buying into the off season stories in a way is healthy. This team has marketed hope in many different forms for a long time now. The whole idea of just sit back and trust them -- IMO they have burned that bridge with many including myself. Oh my friend, no one is selling hope for this season. I'm just saying, give the guy a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laron Burgundy Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Here's the thing... I don't think anyone is trying to convince you that Barry was a good hire. You seem to keep going back to that. What people are trying to say is: give the guy a chance. Keep your opinion, that's all good. But rooting for the team to lose, as you said earlier, is a bit... Uhm... over the ledge? By all means he has a chance. He'll get to coach this d. If he does well then obviously I can't keep the stance that he's another item in the long list of gruden's mocking of the redskins. This coaching staff has earned zero leeway from me though and will keep that as the status quo until they do more than steal snyder's money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Singletary was promoted, so he didn't really have a coaching search there, but Singletary was 13-12 in his first year and a half when the team was 7-16 the previous year and a half. Yes, McCloughlan hasn't hired his own coach, but no, unlike the Tampa Bay gang, he's actually shown to be a promising football mind. Again and yes "football" mind as in finding players, as you say. Nowhere on his resume does it say he excels at hiring coaches. So should we just fire him too without looking at what he can possibly do or just go on the past? I mean if the guy can't hire a coach, what is his worth as a GM?/sarcasm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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