Changes to staff pink slip palooza/welcome to DC edition (OP update)

[Conn]

Actually it was seen as a coup to get Orakpo at 13. Nobody thought he'd fall that far.

And we tried to trade the Broncos our 3rd round pick to move up one spot to get Rak...they laughed and said we were fine, we'd get our guy at 13.

[TexasSkinsFan]

Yeah. You'd think they'd have just gotten lucky somewhere.

2010: Trent, perry Riley.

2011: Kerrigan, Helu, Niles Paul, Chris Nield.

2012: Griffin, Ribs, cousins, K. Robinson, Morris, Compton

2013: Amerson, Reed, p. Thomas, Chris Thompson, Jenkins

2014: Murphy, long, Moses, Breeland, Grant.

8 of those players are starters. (Not counting either QB) out of 22.

NONE of the 2014 players started except for Breeland.

I'll say this: the Shanahan / Allen pairing AT LEAST led to some drafted players on the roster.

No player drafted prior to 2010 will be on the Skins roster. Means they drafted badly.

And it's why they HAVE to sign some FA. Just because they done have enough draft picks to fill out a roster.

SM has his work cut out for him.

EDIT: I'd expect some of the players drafted to be cut. Niles Paul, Chris Neild, Ribbs, Thomas, Thimpson are nowhere near locks to make the team.

 

Agree with everything except Niles Paul. I think he's signed to another team for more money then we are willing to give him, he won't be cut because he is a free agent. Otherwise great post!

[Butters20]

Did you see the "protein shake" videos the strength coach made? Piles of garbage.

How many muscles tears/knee injuries have we had?

 

The guy may know how to put on strength but it seems he is clueless on understanding more advanced concepts on injuries, physiology and nutrition.

[RedBeast]

Why does SM have a 4 year contract and not the typical 5 years? Is it ironic that both Jay and SM have the same amount of time left?

Food for thought...

[Conn]

Why does SM have a 4 year contract and not the typical 5 years? Is it ironic that both Jay and SM have the same amount of time left?

Food for thought...

I don't think Jay's contract is really relevant. Anyone really think Scot wouldn't be allowed to can Gruden and bring in "his guy" next year if it goes sideways again? Of course he will. He's basically getting one mulligan year with Gruden, and if it works out, great. If not, he hires a new guy and the clock starts for real.

[RedBeast]

I don't think Jay's contract is really relevant. Anyone really think Scot wouldn't be allowed to can Gruden and bring in "his guy" next year if it goes sideways again? Of course he will. He's basically getting one mulligan year with Gruden, and if it works out, great. If not, he hires a new guy and the clock starts for real.

 

I am SURE Jay's contract is relevant. I am SURE it was discussed. How about this scenario? Jay gets another year, maybe two. It does not work. Jay gets canned. Scot is halfway through his contract at that point. Scot brings in HIS Coach. Which almost guarantees him a second contract of 4 to 5 more years. 

 

I don't think all of the "time" to define the contract was "t's and "i's". I think Scot is quite intelligent, knows how this game is played and set himself up very well. He ensured he had everything he needed to be successful, both short AND long term. If he is successful? He can retire in 20 years, at the age of 63, a VERY RICH man.

[Conn]

I am SURE Jay's contract is relevant. I am SURE it was discussed. How about this scenario? Jay gets another year, maybe two. It does not work. Jay gets canned. Scot is halfway through his contract at that point. Scot brings in HIS Coach. Which almost guarantees him a second contract of 4 to 5 more years.

I don't think all of the "time" to define the contract was "t's and "i's". I think Scot is quite intelligent, knows how this game is played and set himself up very well. He ensured he had everything he needed to be successful, both short AND long term. If he is successful? He can retire in 20 years, at the age of 63, a VERY RICH man.

Totally agreed. Maybe I misunderstood your post. If you're saying that Scot is NOT remotely tied to Gruden or his contract at all, regardless of them being the same length coincidentally, then I agree with you. At least year #1 with Gruden is a freebee for Scot.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I THINK I know why GHH is so stuck on the HC. And Shannahan......

Robert is just a small part of my problem with Gruden's ineptitude my friend.

But don't get too wrapped up with Chip. He has a thing for the number of posts I have and an endearing, if slightly worrying, obsession with my musings. And he thinks he was the only one that knew what ailed the Redskins. I would say more but I recently, and deservedly, got a slap on the wrist for calling him something I shouldn't of so I'll leave it.

Shanahan is just the biggest POS this organisation ha ever had the misfortune to employ. PERIOD!

Hail.

[nemocystem]

figure this is the most appropriate thread...but this quote from McCloughan really gets me revved up:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/wp/2015/01/07/scot-mccloughan-likes-building-teams-through-the-draft/

* “The moves we have to make, we have to make in this first year,” McCloughan said. “If we wait two years or three years, you’re going to be kicking yourself.”

i can't help but feel like this spells out exactly what i've been hoping for in this offseason. i feel like a handful of guys are safe, & then everybody else is on the table. we could see quite a few guys get moved for picks, & guys we might even really like. i think we'll be seeing some moves that might even have some people thinking "whoah...slow down here buddy," but at the end of the day i almost expect us to have somewhere between 10-12 picks.

i also don't think he's going to be afraid to make any moves that he feels are the right call. i get the sense that if he sits down, evaluates this roster, the team, the locker-room, & all the coaches...he will let go anyone he feels is not up to snuff. i'm not necessarily going to advocate getting rid of Gruden at this juncture (& i'm also not going to deny it's merits)...but my feelings are best described by a quote from the Lakers top brass when talking about the firing of Mike D'Antoni.

when the discussion was taking place, people kept talking about the year after next, & what if he just doesn't cut it. then the discussion would turn to who was out there they thought could take over. they eventually concluded that if they were having these discussions now, & it felt likely that they would be looking at another option by the end of the next season, then why wait? what sense does it make to put the fans, the organization, the coach himself, or the players through another year when they don't even believe in him enough to not discuss other options in meetings.

from the quote above i get the sense that this is in line with his philosophy as well. if he sits down & evaluates Gruden & decides that he's not the man to lead this team, then i don't see him standing pat another year while he does x, y, or z with the roster. ultimately he's going to want to put the guy that HE believes in, in place so that when things are tough, & the team is going through adversity throughout this rebuild, he will have the resolve to back up his faith in the man that HE put in place. he won't wait because of money owed, or because well...shucks....he should get another year. just like if he sits down & evaluates Griffin & determines that he's not our future & is more valuable as a 3rd round pick, i get the sense that so will he too let Gruden walk if he's not enamoured with what he sees before him.

this quote tells me that not only will he be judge, jury, & executioner....but he will not wait for failure to fester.

in the same way that the Packers hired McCarthy & let him stem the tide of losing years, i feel that he wants a guy in place who he can feel comfortable in steering the ship through rough seas, just as capably as he can through tepid water.

expect change, expect it now, prepare for a long term plan, & baten down the hatches. it will get worse before it gets better, but having a man with a plan is 15 years overdue...we've waited this long...what's another 3 years?

[Wildbunny]

I'm wondering what makes many around here think that Scott doesn't believe in Gruden?

[RemoveSnyder]

Didn't we lose our equipment manager last year?

Who exactly is looking after our ball sack? 

[RichmondRedskin88]

Updated. Thanks for suggestions. I'll touch it up a bit more this evening

[jpage520]

CSN did an article this morning that I think was highly appropriate and addressed something that really concerns me with Scot and our moves coming up in the future. At this point the organization is doing something it hasn't done since Casserly and going with a proven method of hiring a true GM to run the personnel. I love the idea, although I'm skeptical as this franchise has driven me to be over the past few years. I think this is the proper way to do things. Just like pretty much anyone rooting for this team that pays attention to the game even the slightest bit more than just having background noise during an excuse to get drunk on a Sunday. But I can't help but wonder how this fanbase is going to react to an ACTUAL rebuild. We haven't seen it since the 90s. It was supposed to happen after 2009, but was halted. Our fanbase can be a really fickle bunch sometimes. Given the culture this franchise has developed over the past decade and a half, "Win now, or get fired" is the philosophy. And it sucks. That is gonna need to change. Sure, in January after a 4-12 debacle of a season it's easy for everyone to say "Gut it! I'll suffer through a couple bad years if I know it's just the process of getting better!" but how much will everyone, Dan, the fanbase, the media, and so many other things that influence the team be willing to stick to that? Will they be able to look at a couple 6-10, 5-11 type of years that inevitibly happen when you're rebuilding? Or will this time next year come and the same "Heads need to roll!!" mentality come around?

[nemocystem]

I'm wondering what makes many around here think that Scott doesn't believe in Gruden?

Just speaking for myself here...i'm not saying that SM does not like Gruden. I am saying that his record indicates that he will evaluate him just as he will everyone else, & he will not be scared by contracts or loyalty to make any decisions he deems necessary. Up to, & including the firing of Gruden...if necessary.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Didn't we lose our equipment manager last year?

Who exactly is looking after our ball sack?

Harry Redknapp.

Permanently on his face.

Hail.

[pjfootballer]

Losing games while looking like possibly the worst assembled football team in the history of the NFL makes me mad, embarrassed and ashamed.

Losing games while rebuilding, seeing the mistakes lessen, seeing the team play harder with more heart and seeing a general improvement without looking like ****show, I can live with,

[nemocystem]

The key is progress...

I present to you two 4-12 teams. The Redskins & the Raiders. On one side you have a team who made necessary moves, drafted well, stuck with their process, & began to believe. They were in a buncb of games, & despite being downright abysmal at several key spots, they found a belief & had a bunch of hard working professionals continue to strive for better.

On the other hand you have a team that struggled not only for consistency, but coherency. They went from bad, to worse, to false hope, to just plain pathetic. The owner finally got so embarrassed he actually did the 1 thing everyone around his franchise has been yelling at him to do since he took over.

The records are the same...yet up to this very moment, Raiders fans have a sliver of hope. They watched progress, & improvement. They watched guys develop, & they didn't completely strike out on their high draft picks.

Until today, us Skins fans were done...many of us were starting to look forward to spending down time on other, perhaps more productive endeavors. But you can see the difference between the 2, & so too can most real Raiders fans. The ones i have talked to share faith in the process...in letting the FO do their jobs, & sit back & watch the progress happen.

I too wonder if much of our fan base can do this...but the difference between the 2 is almost night & day for the non-casual fan who understands what needs to happen.

So yeah...i can gladly sit quietly & accept a couple more years of low win totals, as long as progress is in action.

We should see an identity blossom, & a philosophy take hold. We should see players get better, & not regress. We should see flashes of cohesiveness & continuity from the top of the organization, down to the ball boys.

So yeah...there's a difference...& if many can't see that, I actually don't think that the FO will have a problem tuning them out. For they will see the same things.

[DC9]

I'm wondering what makes many around here think that Scott doesn't believe in Gruden?

 

1T.  Not 2.

 

Presser is tomorrow at noon. 

[BraveWarrior]

from the quote above i get the sense that this is in line with his philosophy as well. if he sits down & evaluates Gruden & decides that he's not the man to lead this team, then i don't see him standing pat another year while he does x, y, or z with the roster. ultimately he's going to want to put the guy that HE believes in, in place so that when things are tough, & the team is going through adversity throughout this rebuild, he will have the resolve to back up his faith in the man that HE put in place. he won't wait because of money owed, or because well...shucks....he should get another year. just like if he sits down & evaluates Griffin & determines that he's not our future & is more valuable as a 3rd round pick, i get the sense that so will he too let Gruden walk if he's not enamoured with what he sees before him.

this quote tells me that not only will he be judge, jury, & executioner....but he will not wait for failure to fester.

in the same way that the Packers hired McCarthy & let him stem the tide of losing years, i feel that he wants a guy in place who he can feel comfortable in steering the ship through rough seas, just as capably as he can through tepid water.

expect change, expect it now, prepare for a long term plan, & baten down the hatches. it will get worse before it gets better, but having a man with a plan is 15 years overdue...we've waited this long...what's another 3 years?

 

Look what happened with the NY Jets. John Izdick came in and inherited Rex Ryan as his head coach, and his fate was tied to Rex. The team didn't improve, and they both lost their jobs. Was that fair to Izdick? Probably not. But I could see Snyder doing the same as Woody Johnson - making him keep Gruden, at least for this coming season.

[Whiskeypeet]

The key is progress...

I present to you two 4-12 teams. The Redskins & the Raiders. On one side you have a team who made necessary moves, drafted well, stuck with their process, & began to believe .

The raiders canned their coach mid season. Not exactly sticking with the process.

[Genghis Khan]

The raiders canned their coach mid season. Not exactly sticking with the process.

Yeah and they seem to be on the fence about their gm keeping his job.

[Murphs56]

CSN did an article this morning that I think was highly appropriate and addressed something that really concerns me with Scot and our moves coming up in the future. At this point the organization is doing something it hasn't done since Casserly and going with a proven method of hiring a true GM to run the personnel. I love the idea, although I'm skeptical as this franchise has driven me to be over the past few years. I think this is the proper way to do things. Just like pretty much anyone rooting for this team that pays attention to the game even the slightest bit more than just having background noise during an excuse to get drunk on a Sunday. But I can't help but wonder how this fanbase is going to react to an ACTUAL rebuild. We haven't seen it since the 90s. It was supposed to happen after 2009, but was halted. Our fanbase can be a really fickle bunch sometimes. Given the culture this franchise has developed over the past decade and a half, "Win now, or get fired" is the philosophy. And it sucks. That is gonna need to change. Sure, in January after a 4-12 debacle of a season it's easy for everyone to say "Gut it! I'll suffer through a couple bad years if I know it's just the process of getting better!" but how much will everyone, Dan, the fanbase, the media, and so many other things that influence the team be willing to stick to that? Will they be able to look at a couple 6-10, 5-11 type of years that inevitibly happen when you're rebuilding? Or will this time next year come and the same "Heads need to roll!!" mentality come around?

 

I think the rebuild will be 2 years based on the type of talent we have. I'm pretty sure at this point Snyder is just embarrassed by everything and he'll give Scot the length of the contract to turn it around 

[nemocystem]

The raiders canned their coach mid season. Not exactly sticking with the process.

I think their situation is similar to ours in that i can see the same thing happen to Gruden if he's given enough rope & he totally hangs himself to the tune of 0-8 by midseason.

Again...Gruden is not married to SM in that same vein. The GM part would be unfortunate for the Raiders as they seem to be headed in the right direction, so perhaps there is a bit more of crazy ol' Al still within Mike Davis. I think they take a step backwards if they can their GM too.

Of course...if you're referring to them poking a stick at SM, then you are aware that it was going to be similar to us again where McKenzie would move to President & SM would take over as GM...only SM wasn't going to be given full control like he is here. More like a glorified head scout.

Seems more like they are sticking to a plan, as it were...only they are trying to fine tune it.

Now the Jets....i got nothing. That organization seems like they know enough to dabble in good, but are far more adept at veering off into calamity when it gets late.

Ftr...i am not sold on the Raiders just yet, but they have put together a good class of young players & they didn't do their usual long jump, triple-jump for overvalued talent. Contrary to our '14 draft where we traded back, then reached on 2 players, & only had Breeland, & Murphy to show for all of it.

I'm gonna stop short on guarantees...but we won't really get a handle on progress until the end of next year, & then maybe 2 years following depending on what happens with the HC.

The drafts should be fun though!

[bedlamVR]

Seriously why should jay not go .... To be a great OC you need to have a great scheme and the ability to translate that scheme into a plan .

To be a great HC you should be able to get the team prepared see oversee the weakness and strengths of the team and establish the teams

Coaches in general should be able to take that identity and the offensive and defensive schemes and communicate how the coaches envision the plays to be carried out - the execution

Everyone says how bad the talent is on this roster because it is the easiest thing to change .... And that is true to an extent ... But what we saw week after week is a secondary who did not have a clue who they needed to cover ... A offensive line who had no idea who to block ..... Tight ends and running backs being asked to block guys they shouldn't one on one OR being told to go out on passing routes running right by oncoming free rushers and WR wiffing on blocks in the running game

Part of that is execution and on the players but more is on the coordinators (mcvey and Haz) to put players where they can succeed rather in positions that we know they will struggle in ... And it is on the positional coaches (Morris and forester) to durring the week iron out the recurring problems and issues with misscominication or misunderstandings of specific players roles in the scheme ....and it is the head coaches responsibility to ensure it gets done and if player x cannot get it done move on to player y ...

But Jay did not do that ... Any of that... You could say he did that with the qbs ... But which of McCoy or Cousins played well ? He did the thing I don't believe you should ever do as a HC and hid behind an injury to try and make a position change ..... Looks weak

He did what I belive a coach should never do and that is air team issues externally and not just about his qbs but other players as well

And he put a clear and very public line in the sand between the coaches and the players when he said the coaches responsibility ends on Saturday putting the blame for losses on the players

Jay came here with a ho hum nfl resume put a disorganised and incoherent team on the field to run an offense based on a hodge pudge of ideas and a defense that you could only call a 3-4 defence due to the personnel groupings because any idea of a scheme went out the window as soon as play commenced .....

Jay did a horrible job as a head coach and it is only because we had a last place schedule we did as well as we did ....

Tell me why should he NOT be fired ?

[DC9]

Tell me why should he NOT be fired ?

 

I'm all for a total house-cleaning.  I truly am.  Especially with guys like Bevell and Bowles interested in a HC job and a guy like McCloughan here giving us street cred.

 

For me, having McCloughan here gives us a pass on firing Jay after one year cause Jay isn't his guy.

 

But, Devil's Advocate... it was his first year.  He deserves a second year if only to show how he can get the team ready while not drinking from a fire hose.  If not here than somewhere else.  But it's rare for a first year HC to do well.  The ones that do normally have a strong coordinator to lean on or outstanding player leadership.  We had neither.