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***2021-2022 NBA Season Thread***

RonArtest15

By RonArtest15
in The Tailgate

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PeterMP

PeterMP

Posted
Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Some wishful thinking about Durant leaving or Golden State being vulnerable going on.

 

Here's what I'll say, right now Toronto 2018 is at least as good as 2015/16 Cleveland Cavs.

 

Durant >>>>> Harrison Barnes

 

BUT:

Green 2018 <<< Green 2016 

Iggy 2018 << Iggy 2016

Livingston 2018 < Livingston 2016

 

But their roles on the team haven't declined to the same degree as their talent.

Edited by PeterMP
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Dr. Do Itch Big

Dr. Do Itch Big

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

Here's what I'll say, right now Toronto 2018 is at least as good as 2015/16 Cleveland Cavs.

 

Durant >>>>> Harrison Barnes

 

BUT:

Green 2018 <<< Green 2016 

Iggy 2018 << Iggy 2016

Livingston 2018 < Livingston 2016

 

But their roles on the team haven't declined to the same degree as their talent.

What? 

 

LeBron > KL

Love > Lowry

Kyrie > anyone on Toronto. 

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PeterMP

PeterMP

Posted
Posted (edited)
53 minutes ago, Dr. Do Itch Big said:

What? 

 

LeBron > KL

Love > Lowry

Kyrie > anyone on Toronto. 

 

Lebron is better than Leonard, but not by as much as you'd think.  By 2015, Lebron was already taking play offs on defense to rest.  Leonard, at least right now, is still playing like a defensive savant.

 

Love is not better than Lowry.  Kyrie is not better than Leonard.  Kyrie > Lowry.  You put the 2015 Cavs on the court against Toronto today, the two best players on the court are not Cavs.  Of the best 4 players, 3 are not Cavs.

 

And the Love is probably greater than whoever you want to say is Toronto's 3rd best player. Let's say Love is better than Valanciunas.

 

But then Toronto today is better 4-10 than Cleveland was in 2015.

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PeterMP

PeterMP

Posted
Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Dr. Do Itch Big said:

LeBron also had an unreal offensive and defensive playoff series in 2015-2016. I meant Kyrie anyone other than KL. Kyrie is much better than Lowry. Lowry shrinks in the playoffs. 

 

Lebron was great.  No doubt about it.  Leonard, likely, will have to have a great series for Toronto to beat GS.  If Leonard even has a good series, they get beat.

 

Lowry played well last year in the playoffs, including against the Cavs.  You certainly can't blame the loss on him.

 

The bench played poorly last year in the Cavs series, and if they play poorly in a GS series, they'll get beat pretty badly by a GS team even with 2 healthy stars.

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PeterMP

PeterMP

Posted
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Thinking more about the finals this year, I think a key for that Cavs team was they came into the playoffs knowing they were the best team in the east and having a goal of winning the finals.  They knew if they took care of business, there was no team in the East that could really challenge them, and they were pretty easily able to go through the Eastern Conference and into the final mentally and physically prepared.

 

vs. in the west GS state really did have to work to beat OKC.

 

I don't think whoever comes out of the East is going to have the same advantage this year.  For now, several teams (Toronto, Philly, Boston) appear to be better than the 2nd best team in the east in 2015.  And none of them are likely to have the same mind set that Cavs team did.

 

While in the west, I don't see a team that is equivalent to that OKC team to challenge GS.  It is more likely this year that GS will be sitting there mentally and physically prepared for the finals vs. a more mentally and physically exhausted eastern conference team.  Whoever comes out of the east might actually be as good as that Cavs team, but still end up getting beaten badly by an essentially equivalent GS team because of the surrounding competition.

 

Thinking about the Butler trade, I've sort of talked about Patton before, but he's a key to this trade for the Sixers.  If he's just not very good (because of injuries or otherwise,) they won't win that trade really.  He needs to become a solid rotational 4/5 for them that can play defense.

 

More important to shooting for Simmons is defense.  Even when surrounded by shooters, if you force them into a half court set, the weaknesses of his game really stand out.  Butler is better than Covington on offense, but from what I've seen the last few years and last night, Covington is a better defender.  And the Sixers can still run shooters out there for the 4/5 position (and people that probably shooter better than Saric), and while Saric isn't a really good defender, he's better than the people they are playing right now.  Any gain on offense by adding Butler is being lost by having to play more 1/2 court because the defense is worse and Simmons isn't a good 1/2 good offensive player.  I'm not sure Butler can turn his defense back to where it was.  Last night he seemed to have issues on switches (which should be a pretty simple thing).

 

Simmons started at PG. Fultz played backup PG.  There was very little time when they were on the court.  Fultz didn't shoot any 3's, but he did shoot and make a few intermediate jump shots.  Fultz is 0 plus/minus.  Simmons is a -12 (2nd worse on the team to the rookie Shamet at a -15).  Right now, in a 1/2 court set, Fultz is the better PG.

 

They should have traded Simmons (though, I wouldn't have traded him straight up for Butler.)

Edited by PeterMP
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Destino

Destino

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Dr. Do Itch Big said:

Warriors just aren’t the same without Curry. He is the foundation. 

It’s not just his shooting either.  Curry’s energy and activity is hard to replace.  He never stops moving.  If he’s not setting one of the million screens a he sets a game, an almost unheard of quality in a point guard, he’s racing into corners or cutting to the rim.  Having him in the game makes defending the Warriors much more difficult.  

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PeterMP

PeterMP

Posted
Posted

I suspect he's better/smarter at pushing tempo, then the other players, including Durant.  I suspect they get better shots in transition when he's there then when not.

 

It is also easier to score in transition if you have somebody that is good at running transition offense, and then good offense let's you set up your defense.

 

I suspect when he's out, they get less good transition offensive possessions, they have to play more 1/2 court offense or have bad transition offensive possessions, which lead to transition offense opportunities for the other team.

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Destino

Destino

Posted
Posted
Quote

Green called Durant a “****” multiple times, sources said. In a summarized version, sources said Green shouted, “You’re a **** and you know you’re a ****.” The rhetoric, sources said, continued even when Kerr attempted to direct the team’s attention to his whiteboard.

 

But what ultimately led to Green’s suspension, sources said, was a remark in which he dared Durant to bolt in free agency next summer. Durant has a player option for the 2019-20 season, and the Warriors want their superteam intact for the opening of their new arena, the Chase Center, in San Francisco next season.

 

Green blurted to Durant something along the lines of, “We don’t need you. We won without you. Leave,” sources said.

https://sports.yahoo.com/warriors-primary-concern-draymond-greens-conduct-detrimental-kevin-durants-future-team-053226752.html

 

Cant you just see Magic’s smarmy grin as he asks KD “You want to win another one for Draymond, or do you want to take one from him?”  

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Mr. Sinister

Mr. Sinister

Posted
Posted

I mean let's be honest, all of this is unprecedented, right? And I'm not talking about the winning, records and titles. 5 or more MASSIVE egos, coexisting for this long? Everyone on my team save for Wade pretty much wanted to Joffry LeBron by 2014 (he obviously got the last laugh by leaving Riles flat footed and killing Bosh's blood cells).

 

Jordan's cult like aura probably held Chicago together, but I doubt they liked him either. Kobe/Shaq, nuff said, '00s Boston, nuff said. 

 

These things are inevitable. The fact that it takes this long for major stuff to start coming out is medal worthy. It's  not supposed to last, and they always end one way or another.

 

They'll be fine for this year at least, but it does not shock me at all, that all is not swell in paradise as we may have been led to believe. 

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