***2021-2022 NBA Season Thread***

[PeterMP]

As much as people talk about the Rockets playing iso, GS's offense has pretty much come to a stand still.

 

And on defense, all of the switching is getting them killed.  

 

This sort of story from fall 2017 (celebrating Kerr's genius of creating their offense) seems out of place now.

 

http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/page/enterpriseWarriors/how-steve-kerr-revolutionized-golden-state-warriors-offense-charcuterie-board

 

They've lost the movement, but managed to keep the turnovers.  (Curry's always been a bit of a lazy/sloppy passer.)

Edited May 25, 2018 by PeterMP

[Destino]

38 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said:

Paul has the worst luck of anyone in the history of planet earth

I don't know man, CP3 has made 187 million playing basketball.  That looks like good fortune to me.  

[Spaceman Spiff]

21 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

He really wasn't being asked to bring the ball up.  He was past mid court and just outside the 3 point line, and if handles the ball cleanly, he's got 1-1 with a smaller player with nobody in the paint.

 

But he didn't even after dribble.  A perfectly fine play there would have been to catch the ball, wait for Curry run behind him, and make the pass backwards.

 

(He wanted the drive on the smaller player and the 2 to tie the game and in his hurry to get make a move mishandled the ball.)

 

That's true.  I'm not saying he's a terrible ballhandler, he's pretty adept but I'd have rather seen Klay in that spot with Draymond further down the court.  

 

But you're right, catch it, hand it off or pass it backwards to Curry who's got a full head of steam and can get past someone.  

 

So do you guys think Houston can win one more with CP3 out?

[PeterMP]

6 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

That's true.  I'm not saying he's a terrible ballhandler, he's pretty adept but I'd have rather seen Klay in that spot with Draymond further down the court.  

 

But you're right, catch it, hand it off or pass it backwards to Curry who's got a full head of steam and can get past someone.  

 

So do you guys think Houston can win one more with CP3 out?

 

Completely depends on Harden.  The way GS is playing, if MVP Harden shows up, yes.  If not, no.  If you get Harden of last night and no CP3, the series is over.

 

If CP3 can't play or is extremely limited, I'd take GS.  CP3 is balling.  Harden looks he wants a place to hide.

Edited May 25, 2018 by PeterMP

[Bozo the kKklown]

The Warriors need to give the keys back to Steph.

 

And if Durant is going to post up, he needs to get deeper in the paint.

 

But they have become team iso which plays into Houston.

[PeterMP]

1 hour ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

The Warriors need to give the keys back to Steph.

 

And if Durant is going to post up, he needs to get deeper in the paint.

 

But they have become team iso which plays into Houston.

 

What really triggered their offense was to give the ball to a big (Green and Bogut originally) that could pass and run off ball screens/motion with their guards and let the big make the right decision.

 

They have Zaza to fill that Bogut role.

 

But the increase in other team's ability to spread the floor has increased since they started that offense and there reliance on switching has made playing such people like Zaza and Bogut impossible given other teams ability to spread the floor.

 

If you put Zaza on the floor and switch, the Rockets are just going to do what they did last night to David West.

 

This is also part of the reason why they are having issues with their bench.  Because of the way they switch, they've got a bunch of guys they can't play on their bench against a team like the Rockets (West. Zaza, and McGee are all useless).  They either have to take a hard look at how they play defense or their roster.

 

(Now, you can see with Celtics, they've stopped switching on some of the Lebron picks.  If Lebron wants to take a 3 behind a pick, have the big show and get a hand up, but don't switch and the defensive big has to get back to their man, but you'll take that shot vs. Lebron switched onto the big.  Pick and rolls didn't historically start at the 3 point line because that's either a long way for the ball to be in the air for a pass on the roll or a lot of ground the big has to cover with the ball, which leaves time for help and turn overs.

 

It seems to me that GS could do the same.  Paul doesn't want a step back 3 behind a screen over a big mans hand.  I think you could give up that shot.  Capella is an excellent roller when he's finishing at the rim.  But I wouldn't worry about him rolling from the 3 point line.  If your big shows to prevent the 3, you should be able to contain enough that Capella doesn't get the catch inside the lane.  Capella isn't a good enough passer, shooter, or dribbler that him with the ball at the FT line worries me too much.

 

Harden is a little harder because if he gets going he's the kind of shooter that can kill you by taking 3s behind the screen, but given the way he was playing last night, I'd take the chance (and there if you are guarding him with Durrant, then he's really got two larger players he's got to shoot over.))

Edited May 25, 2018 by PeterMP

[Going Commando]

Being able to play Durant at the five on defense is a big part of what made the Warriors so dangerous.  Losing Iggy has diminished their ability to do that because they have to give those minutes to bigs like Kevon Looney and David West instead because Nick Young sucks.

 

It's a little surprising that they've only got three credible wings on their roster.  They're incredibly good, but they haven't been able to weather injuries to them well.  They'd be completely screwed if Klay or Durant goes down too.

 

Building such a center-heavy roster was a mistake.  They need to dump JaVale and Pachulia ASAP and replace them with wings.  Looney can play center and Jordan Bell is good and Durant can play the position pretty well too.  They're good at center with just those three players plus they've got Damian Jones at the end of the bench.

If Houston loses this series and Cleveland loses theirs, it'd make LeBron's decision to go to Houston this summer a lock right?

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, Destino said:

I don't know man, CP3 has made 187 million playing basketball.  That looks like good fortune to me.  

They're all rich, think he's talking about luck in regards to the postseason.  Seemed like every year with the clippers someone got hurt that put the breaks on them going anyway.

[Spaceman Spiff]

12 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

If Houston loses this series and Cleveland loses theirs, it'd make LeBron's decision to go to Houston this summer a lock right?

 

How do those three co-exist with each other? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm genuinely curious.  Like I can't imagine LeBron having patience through Harden chucking up shots and missing like he did last night.  I think CP3 and LeBron could co-exist on a team but I am not sure how Harden fits in.

[Renegade7]

59 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

The Warriors need to give the keys back to Steph.

 

And if Durant is going to post up, he needs to get deeper in the paint.

 

But they have become team iso which plays into Houston.

This is effecting Durant's legacy more then going to Golden State to begin with, imo.  He went there expecting it to be easier for him, now its not easy.  He should just leave if they get knocked out by Houston.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

2 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

"If we are victorious in one more battle with the Warriors, we shall be utterly ruined"

 

It turns out Iguodala is actually really good.

 

You're crowing a little too soon.  This Warriors team isn't done yet.

 

Either way, this isn't a cake walk. They were vulnerable all season and it wasn't predetermined that they would waltz to another title. 

20 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

This is effecting Durant's legacy more then going to Golden State to begin with, imo.  He went there expecting it to be easier for him, now its not easy.  He should just leave if they get knocked out by Houston.

 

He didn't go there because he wanted it to be easy

[Renegade7]

4 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

He didn't go there because he wanted it to be easy

 

You sure about that?  I said easier, not easy, having another MVP on your team with two other all-stars on a team that just won 73 games is easier then pretty much anywhere he could've gone to get that championship he wanted.  It also doesn't come across like they're needing him to save their ass, up until now.

[Warhead36]

50 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

This is effecting Durant's legacy more then going to Golden State to begin with, imo.  He went there expecting it to be easier for him, now its not easy.  He should just leave if they get knocked out by Houston.

Durant's legacy was already hurt when he took the easy way out to championships. I don't hate him for his decision, he did what he felt was best, but that doesn't mean he gets looked at the same way as other all time greats.

[CrypticVillain]

5 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Durant's legacy was already hurt when he took the easy way out to championships. I don't hate him for his decision, he did what he felt was best, but that doesn't mean he gets looked at the same way as other all time greats.

No one still has yet to answer my question of what's the difference between ring-chasing the way Durant did or doing it the way Malone, Drexler, Payton, Barkley, and all the other greats that do it at the end of their careers?

[Renegade7]

5 minutes ago, CrypticVillain said:

No one still has yet to answer my question of what's the difference between ring-chasing the way Durant did or doing it the way Malone, Drexler, Payton, Barkley, and all the other greats that do it at the end of their careers?

They did it at the end of their careers, not the middle of their prime.

13 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Durant's legacy was already hurt when he took the easy way out to championships. I don't hate him for his decision, he did what he felt was best, but that doesn't mean he gets looked at the same way as other all time greats.

Public opinion isn't always going to match mine, I do believe Durants image isn't going to worsen in the eyes of most people then it already has if he leaves GS for somebody else.  For the record, I don't hate him or blame him for that decision.  He has a ring now, far as I'm concerned he can do what he wants now. 

 

Maybe people will look at him differently if he finally went to the Wizards, but I'm not going to wait for it or expect it at this point.  It's personal between him and our front office right now.  I have no idea what's best for KD right now, Golden State is not who I thought they were.

Edited May 25, 2018 by Renegade7

[Momma There Goes That Man]

Again, I hope all of you on here in your professional lives wait until the end of your career to join the best company you can, where you can enjoy your coworkers, boss, atmosphere etc. 

 

I hope until then, you all just buckle down and grit it out with bad work environments, bosses you don't like, stuck doing work that wrong way etc. Just tough it out and it the manly way until you are 55+

 

46 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

You sure about that?  I said easier, not easy, having another MVP on your team with two other all-stars on a team that just won 73 games is easier then pretty much anywhere he could've gone to get that championship he wanted.  It also doesn't come across like they're needing him to save their ass, up until now.

 

He went there because he was friends with the players, wanted to play with Kerr, loved their system, saw how much fun they were having, liked the Bay area and wanted a change in his life. 

 

I really doubt he went there with the mindset of "it's going to be easy to rack up a bunch of rings"

 

I still don't fault him one bit for it and it doesn't change how great of a player he is or diminish his legacy to me. 

Edited May 25, 2018 by Momma There Goes That Man

[CrypticVillain]

12 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

They did it at the end of their careers, not the middle of their prime.

 

13 minutes ago, CrypticVillain said:

No one still has yet to answer my question of what's the difference between ring-chasing the way Durant did or doing it the way Malone, Drexler, Payton, Barkley, and all the other greats that do it at the end of their careers?

Son... I said that. I still haven't gotten an answer.

2 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

Again, I hope all of you on here in their professional lives wait until the end of your career to join the best company you can, where you can enjoy your coworkers, boss, atmosphere etc. 

 

I hope until then, you all just buckle down and grit it out with bad work environments, bosses you don't like, stuck doing work that wrong way etc. Just tough it out and it the manly way until you are 55+

All of this...

However, I do get what they're saying. I think they understand and accepts it, but they also know that people will use this against him.
(Even though I feel like GS needed him more than he needed them and that's why he ultimately signed there, but I digress...)

[Renegade7]

15 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

Again, I hope all of you on here in your professional lives wait until the end of your career to join the best company you can, where you can enjoy your coworkers, boss, atmosphere etc. 

 

I hope until then, you all just buckle down and grit it out with bad work environments, bosses you don't like, stuck doing work that wrong way etc. Just tough it out and it the manly way until you are 55+

 

I get what you're saying, we've seen this point before, but its not the same.  He gave up the position of being the guy you build around to be one of the best pieces you can ever add to your team.  Nobody cares about my legacy, there's no hall of fame for me to get into.

 

Quote

He went there because he was friends with the players, wanted to play with Kerr, loved their system, saw how much fun they were having, liked the Bay area and wanted a change in his life. 

 

I really doubt he went there with the mindset of "it's going to be easy to rack up a bunch of rings"

 

I still don't fault him one bit for it and it doesn't change how great of a player or his legacy to me. 

 

We don't have to agree on this one, I said he might decline that player option if they lost to Houston in playoffs, just confirm he said he's going to drop player option back in April right before the playoffs even started.

10 minutes ago, CrypticVillain said:

 

Son... I said that. I still haven't gotten an answer.

 

I don't like it either, but that's the answer.  Please don't call me "son", thank you : )

 

Those players had their legacy fully established before they did what they thought they had to do to get at least one ring before they couldn't play anymore.  

 

I think we as fans and media talk about legacies more then the players do, some of them just want the money, some of them just want to win.  My frustration wasn't so much at KD for doing what he did, but the NBA allowing such a superteam to happen in the first place.  That also does not matter because what I'm seeing is what happens when you have a team that top heavy, it evens itself out eventually.

Edited May 25, 2018 by Renegade7

[CrypticVillain]

I kind of wish all leagues had a hard cap like the NFL. But it'll never happen.

They have to do something to change it though. It's not like this is a new problem either. The NBA has had a Dynasty every decade that seemed to be more powerful than most of the league for long stretches.

[Mr. Sinister]

2 hours ago, Destino said:

I don't know man, CP3 has made 187 million playing basketball.  That looks like good fortune to me.  

 

100mil of it spent warding off evil spirits, unsuccessfully...

[Destino]

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

This is effecting Durant's legacy more then going to Golden State to begin with, imo.  He went there expecting it to be easier for him, now its not easy.  He should just leave if they get knocked out by Houston.

I'm not sure.  Golden state was talked about as one of the best teams ever.  Houston knocking a healthy GS out basically kills that talk entirely.  Houston isn't a super team.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

18 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

I get what you're saying, we've seen this point before, but its not the same.  He gave up the position of being the guy you build around to be one of the best pieces you can ever add to your team.  Nobody cares about my legacy, there's no hall of fame for me to get into.

 

You're assuming he cares about his legacy or that what people think of him 20 years down the road weighs into all the decisions he is supposed to be making in his best interest today. That doesn't make sense for us or for anyone to do that. It's still their job at the end of the day and what they are doing 80% of the time. They want to enjoy it to the best of their ability. 

 

Does it impact Kevin Garnett's legacy that he said it was a mistake to stay on those sorry ass Timberwolves teams and waste his incredible career? 

[abdcskins]

Chris Paul always gets injured. I had a feeling he would go down at some point in these playoffs.

[Renegade7]

1 minute ago, Destino said:

I'm not sure.  Golden state was talked about as one of the best teams ever.  Houston knocking a healthy GS out basically kills that talk entirely.  Houston isn't a super team.

 

I see why you'd say that, but they aren't playing the same way they did last year. 

 

They are making way more mental mistakes and not nearly as hungry or something to prove.  Warriors playing to their potential is damn near unstoppable, for whatever reason, they just aren't doing that.  We may both be right, there's no reason losing Iggy should lead to that team scoring below 100 points in consecutive playoff games. 

 

Another reason why I said they aren't who I though they were.  I don't care how much talent you have, you turn the ball over like that and keep getting outworked by your opponent, you don't deserve a ring.  You can't half-ass your way into a dynasty.

[Renegade7]

1 minute ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

You're assuming he cares about his legacy or that what people think of him 20 years down the road weighs into all the decisions he is supposed to be making in his best interest today. That doesn't make sense for us or for anyone to do that. It's still their job at the end of the day and what they are doing 80% of the time. They want to enjoy it to the best of their ability. 

 

Does it impact Kevin Garnett's legacy that he said it was a mistake to stay on those sorry ass Timberwolves teams and waste his incredible career? 

I'm not assuming anything, I just said other people care about that legacy stuff more then he does.  Did you read the rest of my post?  I squashed my feelings about him a long time ago, the superteam issue is of bigger concern to me.

 

That KG question is a good one, I don't think so, he didn't leave, he got traded.  I think he deserves credit for his loyalty, but he learned just like the rest of us that loyalty only gets you so far in the business world.  From my understanding, he didn't want to leave, then finally gave in.