Brian Orakpo: Current most over hyped Redskin? Or as good as advertised?

[Skinsfan4life83]

Funny thing is these type threads will disappear if he comes out and balls at a pro bowl level next season. I just don't know what some of you expect. I mean is he a hall of famer? Hell no. But he was drafted to produce more pressure on the QB. Which he has done. His run defense has improved year to year. His coverage as well. The guy is young. If he can come back healthy next year and perform at a high level then we would be crazy not to give him a long term deal.

[Commander PK]

I don't dislike Orakpo. He's the best pure edge rusher we possess. (Although I'd take Kerrigan as the far better all round LB. not least in a 34 scheme.). And I greatly appreciate what he has done in his time here. On and off the field of play. And I'm with the next man in hoping he goes out there and tears it up whilst he's on our books.

Hail.

I'm late to this conversation, but I very much agree with you on all counts and your original post. For me, is Brian Orakpo ultimately worth the amount of money he is going to demand when his current contract is up? Much will be determined this year with his play. For me, Brian thus far has been a good to very good Football player for the Redskins. Not great. Not elite. Unless he takes a significant step forward this year...I don't think we should break the bank for him.

[Travdaskin]

Funny thing is these type threads will disappear if he comes out and balls at a pro bowl level next season. I just don't know what some of you expect. I mean is he a hall of famer? Hell no. But he was drafted to produce more pressure on the QB. Which he has done. His run defense has improved year to year. His coverage as well. The guy is young. If he can come back healthy next year and perform at a high level then we would be crazy not to give him a long term deal.

One year healthy doesn't guarantee he will stay that way once he gets his big deal. It would be dicey to reward him after one season of health in a contract year no less. If he weren't hurt it would be a non issue but the fact he has reinjured himself has to be concerning even if he lasts one year of it going away.

[KCClybun]

If Brian Orakpo left, that would mean there would not be a single player Vinny drafted in the first round would be here.

...Sometimes I wonder if that's part of the reason people want him gone.

I can't imagine any other fanbase complaining about a guy like Rak. None.

[Skinsfan4life83]

One year healthy doesn't guarantee he will stay that way once he gets his big deal. It would be dicey to reward him after one season of health in a contract year no less. If he weren't hurt it would be a non issue but the fact he has reinjured himself has to be concerning even if he lasts one year of it going away.

The myth that he is injury prone is a common one. He injured his pec, rushed back and injured it again. Granted its a ****ed up injury but it doesn't mean he is injury prone. He has had ample time to heal up.

If he comes out next season and has a monster year there is no way you don't give him a long term deal. Orakpo is a cornerstone for this defense and if healthy and performing at a high level it would be ignorant to let him walk. All the naysayers will see just how different our defense is with a healthy Orakpo. Besides he has had two very solid seasons with us so its not like he has never done anything.

[2cents]

The myth that he is injury prone is a common one. He injured his pec, rushed back and injured it again. Granted its a ****ed up injury but it doesn't mean he is injury prone. He has had ample time to heal up.

If he comes out next season and has a monster year there is no way you don't give him a long term deal. Orakpo is a cornerstone for this defense and if healthy and performing at a high level it would be ignorant to let him walk. All the naysayers will see just how different our defense is with a healthy Orakpo. Besides he has had two very solid seasons with us so its not like he has never done anything.

Yeah, I've never gotten the whole "he hasn't lived up to our unrealistic expectations, so he sucks" theory. He's a good player....he could be great. We"ll see. But it's not like he's a slug.

[Commander PK]

...Sometimes I wonder if that's part of the reason people want him gone.

I can't imagine any other fanbase complaining about a guy like Rak. None.

There may be some who "want him gone." but wanting him gone or being of the opinion that he has thus far been at best a very good player overall, not an elite player...not worth ELITE money and potentially not worth long term commitment due to his play (and now injury history) are not the same thing.

[CrypticVillain]

1.) What is his trade value going to be, and is that trade value going equal or better than the value he adds to the football team.

2.) Do we have anyone on the roster who can adequately fill in for him this season and in the future?

3.) Are we in a position to replace him in the draft?

4.) Are we in position to get a pass rusher in free agency?

Man, if somebody can provide good answers to all these questions they need to apply for a GM job.

:secret: because there are no good answers

Look, go look at all the elite teams. For the most part, they all have good pass rushers. Who cares if Orakpo is over price are as advertise, he can get to the QB. This is a passing league, we need people who can get to the QB.

[KCClybun]

There may be some who "want him gone." but wanting him gone or being of the opinion that he has thus far been at best a very good player overall, not an elite player...not worth ELITE money and potentially not worth long term commitment due to his play (and now injury history) are not the same thing.

And thus we come to the problem; we have no idea what kind of money he'll want. I do think IF he makes it to free agency he'll be one of the prized free agents since next year the market absolutely blows in free agency to get a linebacker.

Then again pass rushers have gotten lowballed like crazy this season.

So, we don't know what kind of money he'll be looking for. We don't know what the market will look like next season. We don't even know what the franchise tag number will be on an outside linebacker next season. And we certainly don't know what kind of season he'll have.

What we do know is 1.) the marketplace for free agent outside rush linebackers next season looks dismal and 2.) we don't have a first round pick, and likely won't have a high second round pick, to replace him. And that the Redskins have at least thought about extending his contract already, which seems to indicate they want him back.

Worrying about paying him at this point when there's so many factors left completely up in the air is futile.

[SJValleySkinz]

What part of 9 sacks a year are people finding so objectionable. You're sadly mistaken if you think you can replace that kind of production so easily.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

I just don't get the bs that our fanbase gives this man. He isn't a prick, he's not a headcase, he has a ****ton of team spirit, and he clearly always plays his ass off. Yet all we do is criticize him.

He hasn't ever had a poor statistical season yet we just want to trade him because he isn't DeMarcus Ware.

We neglect to realize that a team full of good to above average players (like we are building with 'Rak) is better than a team with one once-in-a-lifetime talent.

I really, really don't get it. What has he done to warrant the numerous "TRADE HIM" threads?

Hell, ppl even started turning against Kerrigan last season. This fanbase befuddles me

---------- Post added March-30th-2013 at 11:13 PM ----------

What part of 9 sacks a year are people finding so objectionable. You're sadly mistaken if you think you can replace that kind of production so easily.

because he isn't DeMarcus Ware of course!!

[skins island connection]

I might actually argue the opposite. The crappy offense led to many three and outs and therefore many more chances for the opponent to gain yardage or points. Poor time of possession should not equal better defense statistically.

I would also add the lack of rest. The offense goes out and has a 3-and-out, and 3 minutes later the defense is sucking air towards the end of the game. Maybe a sprinkle of predictability and poor execution of late game adjustments contributed,

We've all watched Orakpo, and some games he lights o-lines up, but others he seems predictable; IMO the jury's still out. Lets see what 2013 brings before accolades or criticism blankets the forum.

SIC

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Why do folk get their panties in such a bunch over an off-season, light hearted debate on a guy that raises legit issues?

If we can't talk about EVERY aspect of a guy, and just what may or may not be the best way forward for this team; then what as caring fans CAN we discuss? And that goes for any other thread you may not like the subject matter of.

If it brings legit conversation, it has it's merits and enriches this place if ours. You don't have to 'get it'. Just roll with it and add your opposing views.

Simples.

Hail.

[sjinhan]

We neglect to realize that a team full of good to above average players (like we are building with 'Rak) is better than a team with one once-in-a-lifetime talent.

---------- Post added March-30th-2013 at 11:13 PM ----------

My only concern is that Orakpo will be wanting to get paid like an elite player instead of just a good player...

I guess no way for us to know for sure until time comes but my gut feeling tells me that he will be demanding a lot of money...

---------- Post added March-30th-2013 at 11:03 PM ----------

We neglect to realize that a team full of good to above average players (like we are building with 'Rak) is better than a team with one once-in-a-lifetime talent.

---------- Post added March-30th-2013 at 11:13 PM ----------

My only concern is that Orakpo will be wanting to get paid like an elite player instead of just a good player...

I guess no way for us to know for sure until time comes but my gut feeling tells me that he will be demanding a lot of money...

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

My only concern is that Orakpo will be wanting to get paid like an elite player instead of just a good player...

I guess no way for us to know for sure until time comes but my gut feeling tells me that he will be demanding a lot of money....

I think it's highly naive to think he won't want to get seriously paid.

As has been pointed out, the LB market is thin on the ground next year. As has also been pointed out, he can point to a first three year sack total up there with what, 15 other players? And if he has a similar sack year this year .....

It keeps being shot down that it's all subjective and nobody knows what he'll ask for, which is of course strictly true. But come on guys. Y'all are busy telling us just how important he is to this team and just how superior he is to the D.

You don't think him and his agent will use that as well as the thin market to go looking for top wack pay?

Hail.

[KCClybun]

My only concern is that Orakpo will be wanting to get paid like an elite player instead of just a good player...

I guess no way for us to know for sure until time comes but my gut feeling tells me that he will be demanding a lot of money...

If he plays like a great, elite caliber player, he'll ask for great, elite caliber money. He'll have also helped us win a lot of football games, so he'll have earned that money.

If he plays like a good player, he can ask for all the elite money he wants, he's not going to get it from anyone, at least not if this year's free agency is any indication. So his offer will likely have to come down to earth a little bit.

And at which point has Brian Orakpo ever appeared to be a player that's all about money, ever?

That's where this thread gets lost in translation. If Brian Orakpo breaks out and finally becomes the player everyone wants him to be, I don't see how that's a bad thing for our football team, even if we do have to overpay a smidge for him.

There seems to be a heavy implication that Brian Orakpo breaking out would actually be a bad thing because --- GASP! --- then we'd have to pay him, and then maybe he'll morph back into a pumpkin. That's where the "trade him" talk stems from. The warped idea that it's better we suffer now and let Orakpo break out somewhere else and get paid, then for him to break out here then pay him ourselves.

It makes no sense to want to trade a solid, young player who's not even in his prime yet, because he may become the very thing you're complaining about him not being in the first place and then you'll have to pay him the money he earned. It's anti-logic.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

..... There seems to be a heavy implication that Brian Orakpo breaking out would actually be a bad thing because --- GASP! --- then we'd have to pay him, and then maybe he'll morph back into a pumpkin. That's where the "trade him" talk stems from. The warped idea that it's better we suffer now and let Orakpo break out somewhere else and get paid, then for him to break out here then pay him ourselves.

It makes no sense to want to trade a solid, young player who's not even in his prime yet, because he may become the very thing you're complaining about him not being in the first place and then you'll have to pay him the money he earned. It's anti-logic.

Why would anyone be opposed paying top dollar for any player in the top echelon of his position?

The trade talk stems from a view that he isn't, and rather than over pay (which I doubt this regime would FWIW but still a relevant discussion); you look at cashing in so to speak whilst he still has value as an outside edge rusher with decent numbers to a team that wants purely that. (You can argue that's us, but there's a strong argument for saying that limits things in a 34 with added LB responsibilities as opposed to his use that way, or as a pure rush end in a 43.).

How long you wait for a vet entering his 5th year to become the elite guy many hope is a whole other debate again.

Hail.

[Warhead36]

Rak isn't elite, but he's very good. On a scale of 1-5(5 being the Suggs/Ware/Matthews category), Rak is a solid 4. Nothing wrong with that at all. If your standards are that he be as good as Demarcus Ware who is a future first ballot HOF-er then 99% of the LBs in the league will disappoint you.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

If he plays like a great, elite caliber player, he'll ask for great, elite caliber money. He'll have also helped us win a lot of football games, so he'll have earned that money.

If he plays like a good player, he can ask for all the elite money he wants, he's not going to get it from anyone, at least not if this year's free agency is any indication. So his offer will likely have to come down to earth a little bit.

And at which point has Brian Orakpo ever appeared to be a player that's all about money, ever?

That's where this thread gets lost in translation. If Brian Orakpo breaks out and finally becomes the player everyone wants him to be, I don't see how that's a bad thing for our football team, even if we do have to overpay a smidge for him.

There seems to be a heavy implication that Brian Orakpo breaking out would actually be a bad thing because --- GASP! --- then we'd have to pay him, and then maybe he'll morph back into a pumpkin. That's where the "trade him" talk stems from. The warped idea that it's better we suffer now and let Orakpo break out somewhere else and get paid, then for him to break out here then pay him ourselves.

It makes no sense to want to trade a solid, young player who's not even in his prime yet, because he may become the very thing you're complaining about him not being in the first place and then you'll have to pay him the money he earned. It's anti-logic.

end the thread now.

This is the answer.

Simple as this

[Commander PK]

I think a lot of issue people take with him is that he has not been an elite pass rusher in the sense of sack totals. We hoped the Redskins had drafted their Demarcus Ware in 2009. Somebody who was going to get double-digit sacks per season.

Maybe people's expectations were way too high on him. Maybe MY expectations are too high of him.

---------- Post added March-31st-2013 at 12:49 AM ----------

Rak isn't elite, but he's very good. On a scale of 1-5(5 being the Suggs/Ware/Matthews category), Rak is a solid 4. Nothing wrong with that at all. If your standards are that he be as good as Demarcus Ware who is a future first ballot HOF-er then 99% of the LBs in the league will disappoint you.

Good point. I will admit, that probably the problem most people have with Orakpo...actually let me say not a problem per se, just an issue...is that he is not as good as Demarcus Ware. Few are or ever have been. The problem is the Redskins play Demarcus Ware and the Cowboys twice per season, which drives home this point.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

On a wider, but related note to the thread Painkiller man; an issue I have with the fan base in general when it comes to 'Rak is the fact many DO talk him up to that caliber. Hence the 'over hyped' tone of the OP.

Hail.

[KCClybun]

I think a lot of issue people take with him is that he has not been an elite pass rusher in the sense of sack totals. We hoped the Redskins had drafted their Demarcus Ware in 2009. Somebody who was going to get double-digit sacks per season.

Maybe people's expectations were way too high on him. Maybe MY expectations are too high of him.

He is one sack away from having two double digit seasons in four years. The "he doesn't have double-digit sack seasons" argument is one of the sillier arguments people have against the guy. He has one double digit sack season so he's not elite, and since he got 9 sacks in 2011 instead of ten he's just good not great?

Come on, man...

[Commander PK]

He is one sack away from having two double digit seasons in four years. The "he doesn't have double-digit sack seasons" argument is one of the sillier arguments people have against the guy. He has one double digit sack season so he's not elite, and since he got 9 sacks in 2011 instead of ten he's just good not great?

Come on, man...

He's very good, but he's not elite no. Elite is 15 to 20 sacks per season, (edit: just about) every year. Brian has not done that.

[KCClybun]

Why would anyone be opposed paying top dollar for any player in the top echelon of his position?

The trade talk stems from a view that he isn't, and rather than over pay (which I doubt this regime would FWIW but still a relevant discussion); you look at cashing in so to speak whilst he still has value as an outside edge rusher with decent numbers to a team that wants purely that. (You can argue that's us, but there's a strong argument for saying that limits things in a 34 with added LB responsibilities as opposed to his use that way, or as a pure rush end in a 43.).

How long you wait for a vet entering his 5th year to become the elite guy many hope is a whole other debate again.

Hail.

Well then, I have four questions to ask you.

1.) What is his trade value going to be, and is that trade value going equal or better than the value he adds to the football team?

2.) Do we have anyone on the roster who can adequately fill in for him this season and in the future?

3.) Are we in a position to replace him in the draft?

4.) Are we in position to get a pass rusher in free agency?

[Commander PK]

For the record, I don't dislike him. I would like to see him expand his skill set rushing the passer. I would like to see back to back double-digit sack seasons. I would just like to see him continue to get better. Ware's best season was his fourth season. Orakpo's 4th season he was injured, so maybe we haven't seen his best yet.