WP Insider - Philadelphia’s Wide-9 front could hamper Redskins’ efforts in run game

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/wp/2012/11/16/philadelphias-wide-9-front-could-hamper-redskins-efforts-in-run-game/

By Mike Jones

The key for the success of the Washington Redskins’ offense is establishing a balanced attack, and it all starts with getting the run game going. The Philadelphia Eagles could pose a problem for the Redskins, however.

One of the goals of the Wide-9 defensive front the Eagles utilize is to take away the outside run as well as position pass rushers for a direct path to the quarterback. The Eagles rank 15th against the run, but they haven’t allowed a single back to gain 100 yards all season long.

That could limit Washington’s offense, which uses a lot of stretch plays with runs to the outside of their tackles.

“It’s a huge challenge,” offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan said. “They really crash the pocket; they crash the O-line every single play, whether it’s a run or a pass. It really turns people. It’s hard to get outside on it. It muddies everything up and pushes everything from the middle. It can be a tough defense to run on, and it can be a real tough defense to drop back and throw on.”

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Hoepfully this article proves to be false. Not many other teams have been hampered by this "wide-9"

The Fecals are on the cusp of giving up, their wide 9 doesn't scare me.

The Butler rolls Sunday....over 100, book it,.

So we run him up the middle. It's not like their linebackers will tackle him anyway :whoknows:

The Skins go outside the tackles? Seriously most runs I see lool like they involved going between the tackle and guard, then maybe swinging over to the sideline.

The Eagles can't tackle. End of story.

Try and arm tackle Morris. Just try.

It seems to me like this wide-9 scheme has their DE's running out of the play as much as making anything out of their rush. I'm not too concerned about the Skins getting theirs, I'm more worried that the defense is going to give the Eagles all the yards they want as well.

As I recall Morris rushed for a hundred some yards against the Bucs when they had the number one rush defense, this year. So its not impossible for our guys to establish a rushing attack against Phi.

Color me entirely unconcerned. I expect us to run on them fairly easily. My only worries revolve around penalties and our execution in the passing game.

The Eagles "Wide 9" wasn't built to stop the run.

Though I only think that because they really haven't stopped the run this season.

Morris (and RG3) should do well.

I hope Kyle sees this and doesn't pitch it outside to Morris this week. He'll have his best game in a month.

Philly's vaunted wide 9 was in play a year ago. When we faced them in October last year, Torain and our run game were dominating. We were 3-1. IIRC they adapted their wide 9 and flat out ended our season. They provided the blueprint to stop our stretch left, and we lost our next 6. I may be alone but I don't blindly blame Rex. Everything Mike does requires a run game first. We all saw Helu and Royster have success late in the year behind a patchwork line, because Kyle finally designed some new run plays. The toss was introduced, but a huge ego had to be swallowed and a months of lumps taken, before that simple play was introduced.

That all said, I hope we do a better job this year to stay ahead of the eagles. Have a new run play or 2 added in the bye week, or at least get away from the easy to predict trends (like Torain left left left from a year ago).

So we run him up the middle. It's not like their linebackers will tackle him anyway :whoknows:

Yeah, exactly.

I think that it just provides a different cutback lane. If the end is further outside, then the tackle pushes him out, and the back goes inside him. I think that the stretch run has that as an option for every play. Morris goes sideways until he finds the crease, puts a foot in the ground, turns up field, and explodes.

I don't see why where the DE lines up matters.

Oh, and Mike and Kyle have had 2 weeks to prepare for this. I THINK that between them, they can figure out some way to negate the wide 9.

Well, the only true feature back they have faced is Ray Rice and he ran for 99 yards on just 16 carries.

Take away the outside? That's fine just pound Morris up the gut. RGIII may not get on the outside much, but that might be a blessing to keep the temptations down.

I didn't take the time to read the whole article because it seemed from the first paragraph that the article had a horrible misunderstanding of the stretch play.

The stretch play does not have to be an outside run, and often times isn't. For the most part it's an off tackle run and you read the tackles block(decide whether to go inside or outside), and versus a wide-9 I imagine going inside the tackle as well as the cut back lanes will be open all day. For the Eagles to stop this they'd need to collapse the hole that will form inside of Trent, ie Babin/Cole will have to force Silverback back into the hole. I for one don't see this happening and think the Redskins will have a field day, as I have thought they would all year v the wide 9.

In short, no the wide-9 does not stop the stretch, it simply poses different reads for the stretch than a traditional front. Furthermore the cut back run on the stretch often leads to some of the largest gains.

This takes me back to when Kyle was a child. Sitting in his room trying to force a square peg through a round hole. Getting his daddy's hammer and pounding away. Tears running down his face screaming, " why won't this work!!!!!!" Watch and see if he doesent try to force the outside run.

I'd like to see the Skins do something different with Griffin's designed runs. They're always doing it out of the shotgun and in option formations.

How's this for a play. Two WR, two RB set, Griffin under center. Takes the snap, Young goes forward as lead blocker, fakes the handoff to Morris. Drops back a few steps behind Morris, then tucks the ball and runs behind his two lead blockers.

---------- Post added November-17th-2012 at 11:15 AM ----------

This takes me back to when Kyle was a child. Sitting in his room trying to force a square peg through a round hole. Getting his daddy's hammer and pounding away. Tears running down his face screaming, " why won't this work!!!!!!" Watch and see if he doesent try to force the outside run.

The Skins do often try to play to other teams strengths rather than their weaknesses. They seem to want to trick the other team, not outplay them

The Skins go outside the tackles? Seriously most runs I see lool like they involved going between the tackle and guard, then maybe swinging over to the sideline.

You realize our main offensive play is the stretch which is designed as an outside or north south from behind the end man in the LOS play, right?

This takes me back to when Kyle was a child. Sitting in his room trying to force a square peg through a round hole. Getting his daddy's hammer and pounding away. Tears running down his face screaming, " why won't this work!!!!!!" Watch and see if he doesent try to force the outside run.

The stretch play does not have to be an outside run though, it's not Kyle's fault if whoever is running the ball continues to stretch the play. Logic suggests that the holes will be opening inside the tackle, not outside the tackle, when playing against the wide-9. It is up the running back to make the right read.

They're still running the wide 9 over there huh? lol. I mean from my understanding of the wide 9, and why the Eagles implemented it; was under the assumption that you have a lead. Or an offense that takes leads. Which the Eagles offense does NOT do anymore, since starting week 1. The inside lanes are completely wide open, and if the tackles are strong enough to keep the lightweight DE's to the outside. And Monty who has been a force this year can prevent movement from the tackles along with the guards...I call field day for Redskins RB's.

These are the same DE's that run the W9 this year for the Eagles. On this play, one DE split way wide, with the defensive tackles shifted towards the left. You can tell me the Eagles "design" their wide scheme to stop the stretch play, and I'm not using this play as total fact; I'm using my brain from what I've seen of them, and how I often refer to it as a joke.

This article states "no one has rushed for more than 100 yards on the Eagles yet!" This is such bull**** writing it's funny. Ray Rice literally had 99 yards rushing. Ryan Williams and beanie wells ran all over them. Mendenhall and Redman went over 100 on them. Jacquizz Rodgers and Turner ran all over them for 100+. The Saints had 3! Running backs go 44+ each on them. And the Cowboys had their way with their **** line as well.

There's no hiding it this year, the Eagles are a bad team. The mirrors that once worked with smoke are cracked. The front office is a mess, their salary cap is a mess for next season, their FA pick ups will be leaving town with Vick this off-season, and their coach is on the downhill after a destructive off-season to his personal life and no help from the guys on the field. The Eagles defense has been weak for years, they tried to run some things with it to make it compliment their dynamic offense full of undersized weaklings. It didn't work. The wide 9 still isn't working for them.

It wasn't even Castillo, even though he was garbage, they built their plan around an aging once very dynamic mobile QB who has took a turn for the worst with his consistent and damaging injuries. If it isn't apparent how obvious and inflating their wide 9 made their defense look last year.

Babin 2011 - 18.5 sacks - Babin 2012 - 3.5 sacks.

Trent Cole last 5 seasons - 9 + sacks / Trent Cole 2012 - 1.5 sacks

They're 260 lbs wet and wearing boots, and Trent is going to **** all of them up.

The Eagles got what they deserved, a **** roster full of overpaid bums. A front office who lacks logical thinking. A scum QB who should retire soon. Tons of players that quit on them every other snap. And a blown up franchise.

I hope Reid leaves this off-season because he's the only guy I respect there. I wish that man the best.

Makes me very happy seeing the Eagles like this, and the Redskins with a franchise QB, RB, and LT, and it looks like the making of a possible franchise K. People once saw the Redskins recently as "Oh you guys got Kerrigan and Orakpo, yea those guys are beasts" now it will be cemented as "Oh you guys have Big Trent, RG3, and that Running back"

This takes me back to when Kyle was a child. Sitting in his room trying to force a square peg through a round hole. Getting his daddy's hammer and pounding away. Tears running down his face screaming, " why won't this work!!!!!!" Watch and see if he doesent try to force the outside run.

The stretch is a read play. He will run stretch as it could have success inside the wide 9 defender. The backers will have to come down hill which opens them up to play action down the middle.

You realize our main offensive play is the stretch which is designed as an outside or north south from behind the end man in the LOS play, right?

I thought the stretch run was based on the read of the end player on the LOS. If the TE/T has the play sealed the back can stretch it ouside, but if the seal isn't there than you cut the rush inside said player.

NM, reading your post above I see that we're in agreement on this, poor intepretation on my part.

You realize our main offensive play is the stretch which is designed as an outside or north south from behind the end man in the LOS play, right?

when I hear stretch I think running toward the sidelines then cutting upfield

when I hear stretch I think running toward the sidelines then cutting upfield

That's not a view that encompasses the stretch run in it's totality.

Certainly the stretch can get to the sideline, and the get up field in a hurry, especially if the TE/T gets the seal. But often times players can't get the seal, and the read is inside the TE/T not towards the sideline.

Then you have the cut-back lane as well, if the defense over pursues the stretch the back can cut it back and usually for a substantial gain. A great example of this was the THT pre-season run v Baltimore. Stretch play to the right, the Ravens over pursued, Timmy cut it back and had his LT Williams there to put Ray Ray out of the picture, 60+ yards later Tim is celebrating in the endzone. EDIT: guess it wasn't a 60+yarder lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnBVx30YvE8

The cut-back is in my opinion actually the best opportunity for a stretch play to gain big yardage. IIRC Morris' long TD this year v TB I believe it was, was due to him cutting it back, though not nearly as severely as THT who started on a stretch right and ended up near the left hatch marks