O-line pass blocking regressing as NFL adjusts to 'Skins Offense?

Going into the season the O-line was a huge concern. For the first month or so, the unit was kind of surprising all of us by playing way above expectations.

However, I have noticed over the past few weeks, the pass blocking has seemed to get worse each week. Against Carolina RGIII seemed to be on the run after dropping back a lot. It led to the break down of a lot of plays way too early out of desperation by RGIII to get out of dodge.

I am wondering if the pistol formation and bait & switch offense that was confusing defenses earlier in the season was a big part of why the pass blocking was so successful. It had defenders on their toes, not sure what was coming on each play. It was slowing down their reaction time, instead of attacking at the snap of the ball, they had to almost wait to see where the ball was going.

This aspect has seemed to been slowly going away. Defense are no longer waiting, they are attacking again.

Without the "What the heck is coming our way now" affect, our O-line is being forced to actually man-up and block defenders, confident defenders, defenders that are not sitting back and waiting. It is now becoming YOU VS ME based on strength, speed, & technique. Besides Trent Williams, I am not sure if any of our current O-line starters can get the job done without that element to the offense that was there early in the season.

Well, we have a coordinator that tries something, it works - then he moves on. We were running all over people and we quit.

The pistol was confusing the crap out of defenses. That patented fake hand off, stall a sec, launch the ball - I haven't seen that since the Bengals. It was working. So Kyle stopped calling it.

Our line just can't pass block. We knew this during the off season. We run block like dozers, just cant slow down pass rushers. That's why the play action was killing defenses. We definitely need that back (the pistol).

Good point!

The pass pro from a ZBS-style OL generally isn't an impenetrable wall, just do to their smaller size. This is normally countered with PA and rolling the pocket. Skins haven't done much rolling the pocket, from what I've seen. That would help out a lot IMO.

I def think the pistol style offense helped out the O-Line immensely...

Now teams are making small adjustments and the O-line is being exposed

Kyle needs to add a few more wrinkles

I wonder why there is such a difference in Pass/Run blocking? Is it perhaps because when run blocking, the O-line is actually the unit that is attacking, as opposed to protecting? Is an O-line built to run block in a zone scheme, by nature softer in pass coverage due to their generally smaller/more athletic size? Is this a tradeoff that has to be accepted, with the hopes that the Coordinator can figure out the right passing offense to cover the weaknesses?

Also, on a sidenote to the thread I started........Watching the Eagles/Saints MNF game....As bad as Vick looks at times, he would look a hell of a lot worse if it wasn't for some of the playmakers on his offense. It makes me think even more that RGIII is working his tail off to "make it work" with a lot of sub-par to average talent. For example, why do we rarely if ever see our WRs get behind a secondary? The few times it has happened, one resulted in a TD, the other few times, dropped passes. However it seems like every other team in the league find ways to get their WRs open, yet ours are always catching in traffic, or maybe have a half step on a defender. I hope the TINY sample size we saw of Garcon is an accurate reflection of what he will REGULARLY bring when he is healthy, because he seemed to make a huge difference, he was a WR that could take any pass to the house. That changes the entire WR core.....

Ok, sorry for that diversion.

I think the weakness in the o-line is having Tyler Polumbus pushed 5 yards into the backfield at the snap of the ball.

I wonder why there is such a difference in Pass/Run blocking?

I'm sure someone like KDawg could do a much better job explaining this but in run blocking our guys are able to move laterally and take advantage of their athleticism. In pass blocking they're moving backwards and it appears that they're getting knocked off balance because they're over powered.

To me, the OL is still a huge concern. Whatever percieved improvment there is stems solely from the play of RG3. Aside from Trent, I honestly believe we could use upgrades everywhere along the line. I don't think Montgomery is doing all that great either personally. RT is a critical need obviously.

PFF says our line is playing at a VERY high level, except for Kory who's average, and Polumbus who's a train-wreck. Too bad we just had to have Brandon Banks.

I do think we need to roll the pocket a bit more, and I think Kyle overreacts to how his talent is playing - when the WRs start dropping passes, he starts dialing back the playcalling and calls easier passes that they don't have to make difficult plays on.

Its nice to see folks getting on board with rolling the pocket. If enough beat the drum, we will see it next game. Book it.

Does a single fan think we are not a perfect team to do it? Our thin WR group needs time to open. The WCO staple, the slant, has the FS head hunting our ball dropping wideouts. The 3 step drop, is not working. Our OL is perfect to move around, as is the QB.

But there are some things Mike abhors, the end zone fade, hurry up, heck even throwing into the endzone to wideouts seems a rarity. Maybe rolling out the pocket / Griffin is just not in the playbook.

I'm sure someone like KDawg could do a much better job explaining this but in run blocking our guys are able to move laterally and take advantage of their athleticism. In pass blocking they're moving backwards and it appears that they're getting knocked off balance because they're over powered.

You don't need me to explain it. You nailed it.

Skins cannot protect a pocket passer. Morrison and running game remain pleasant surprise(s) but for how long?

Re "rolling the pocket". Good idea but it works best with all pro RTs & RGs.

This O-line was going to be shaky in "coming from behind" passing situations.

The key to the Skins success was scoring often and early with a great running game thus allowing play action to be successful.

But the Skins should definitely throw more on first down..and take a couple shots each half down the field because the last 2 defenses have come in with the plan to stop the run for the most part and contain RG...Easy victory!

Re "rolling the pocket". Good idea but it works best with all pro RTs & RGs.

Good point.

A solid passing attack works best with 11 all pros. Hell, so does the run game!

Remember that Griffin 4th down run, with Royster I am sorry, I am trying to not to laugh as I type this. "sealing" the edge?

Run passing plays doing things like that. Or at least have a pass option for the kid.

That is perhaps how a team committed to lightweight fast OL, coupled with our WRs getting no respect, Desmonded on the LOS, have to design some of their pass plays.

Having RG3 stand in the pocket plays to our own weakness. We don't even go Max Headroom protect either.

I fear Mike is too arrogant to admit his handselected and groomed OL are not good in pass pro. Eventually, we started to see RG3 missing badly on some throws. He is feeling the heat.

Can LeRib pass pro? Maybe we should beef up the line when the world knows we are passing.

But there are some things Mike abhors, the end zone fade, hurry up, heck even throwing into the endzone to wideouts seems a rarity. Maybe rolling out the pocket / Griffin is just not in the playbook.

How many passes into the endzone were called back due to penalty or dropped in the endzone in the last two games alone? 6? 7? Throwing to wideouts in the endzone is not a missing element from our offense. I'd like to see more hurry up in certain situations but I don't think our offense necessitates it. We would probably see more of it if Garcon and Davis were healthy but your options start becoming limited as you move to depth players. Where you originally had two plays that could stretch the field, run underneath routes, and be factors in the blocking game you're replacing them with guys that are more one dimensional. It requires more substitution. Not saying we shouldn't still incorporate it at times, I just don't think its needed as a large part of our offense this year. Griffin also already has quite a bit on his plate as it is for a rookie QB.

I def think the pistol style offense helped out the O-Line immensely...

Now teams are making small adjustments and the O-line is being exposed

Kyle needs to add a few more wrinkles

THIS^^^.. the various option calls and other formations (pistol being one) has masked the isses of the Oline. Teams have now adjusted by blitzing and not hesitating in getting to the backfield.

Good point.

A solid passing attack works best with 11 all pros. Hell, so does the run game!

lol, i sense some sarcasm

THIS^^^.. the various option calls and other formations (pistol being one) has masked the isses of the Oline. Teams have now adjusted by blitzing and not hesitating in getting to the backfield.

The Pitts game opened my eyes to how bad the O-line is this season. I'm not sure if it can be fixed in one off season? I hope so for our QB's sake.

Here's the deal, guys...

Our offensive line is a pretty solid unit. They're consistently good in the run game and they're actually decent in pass protection when we can run the offense the way it is designed. At present, we're a run heavy offense predicated strongly on misdirection. We open up the run, open up the pass, and cause the defense to hesitate and make poor decisions by effectively disguising everything we do and adjust our playcalling according to what the defense appears to be keying in to. When our defense gives up points early in games and our offense stalls that dynamic is completely taken away from us because teams don't respect the threat of the run as much and we have to resort to a slightly more conventional passing attack. This makes protecting Griffin harder because we do not have an exceptional pass blocking group and it puts Griffin in situations that he did not have a ton of experience with at Baylor where he is bound to look more like a rookie than the all world player he has the ability to be. Penalties that set up 2nd and 3rd and longs present the same difficulties and are where we've consistently struggled in games (as most teams tend to).

In the long term, we do need to upgrade from Polumbus at RT and we need to continue to develop younger interior OL players. However, the guys we have in place right now are quite capable of getting the job done (i.e., they can put up enough offense and enough points to win most games if our defense wasn't historically bad) provided that we can stay within our gameplan and minimize the sloppy mistakes we've been prone to making (mostly coming from the receiving corps in the form of drops and dumb stuff like illegal motion or illegal formation penalties). These last two games should not be representative of the norm going forward because I haven't seen a defense yet that has made a good, lasting schematic adjustment to what we do. Our level of offensive execution has simply dropped to the point where we haven't been finishing plays where we've had the defense beat. The only way this persists is if our team is truly undisciplined in a profound manner, which would be very unlike a Mike Shanahan team.

THIS^^^.. the various option calls and other formations (pistol being one) has masked the isses of the Oline. Teams have now adjusted by blitzing and not hesitating in getting to the backfield.

Indeed.

Steps to slowing down the Redskins passing game.

1- Make sure OLB/DE channel everything inside.

2- Bring pressure up the middle (don't react, just blitz)!

3- Make your sure safeties off load on any WR coming over/through the middle. Our WR will drop a catch or two.

The above three make our play action not so effective. This line is no better than last year in terms of straight drop back pass protection. Its an area that still needs addressing, but with so many other issues on this team, its going to be tough. The good early start had many of us fooled in terms of the quality of depth, coaching etc.

Here's the deal, guys...

Our offensive line is a pretty solid unit. They're consistently good in the run game and they're actually decent in pass protection when we can run the offense the way it is designed At present, we're a run heavy offense ....

Agreed completely.

Where I see Mike has fumbled the ball, is having a very thin backfield. He hit a home run on Morris, clearly. I frequently see him out of the game after long drives and runs, and I think he is catching a breather. On the goal line, we get Banks as often as Morris.

That is where his entire approach to offense fails. We see it and it is awkward, RG3 on a sweep on 4th and goal... running Banks, Morgan, even Briscoe has ran it. Royster seems like he is a shell of what he was last year.

Helu out may be the biggest injury impacting our team, yet it nary gets a mention. A dominating offense can cure ANY defensive woe.

But again you hit the nail on the head, his entire offensive approach is predicated on running the ball. And we have 1 RB. Morris gets tired or gassed, and we are screaming at Kyle's play calling - running Banks wide etc.

I am screaming we need a GM to fix the gaping hole in the backfield. We have no one to spell Morris. Most teams seem to have 3 good backs, you would think Mike would have 4 as dependent as he is on it. I would even entertain bringing back Torain for a game, or offer up a trade, for last I saw, it looked like Morris got injured last game.

The line is the least of our concerns when it comes to team units. I watch this unit every week very closely and even have a thread on their strengths and weaknesses. The line does have some weaknesses but it is not bad at all. If you want to start to point fingers at blocking you have to look no further than the tight ends and running backs the latter especially. We have not one running back that can block effectively and the tight ends are only a step better. If you want to fix the "line" you need to get a blocking back and a blocking tight end. They are the ones that cause the blow ups in the backfields 9 times out of 10. You can believe me or not but I just call it how I see it.

The line is the least of our concerns when it comes to team units. I watch this unit every week very closely and even have a thread on their strengths and weaknesses. The line does have some weaknesses but it is not bad at all. If you want to start to point fingers at blocking you have to look no further than the tight ends and running backs the latter especially. We have not one running back that can block effectively and the tight ends are only a step better. If you want to fix the "line" you need to get a blocking back and a blocking tight end. They are the ones that cause the blow ups in the backfields 9 times out of 10. You can believe me or not but I just call it how I see it.

this is interesting.. do you think because the injury to davis and having to use paulsen as more of a receiver is hurting the line? i would think that paulsen is our best blocking TE and now hes out running routes so all we have is paul and cooley. the good thing about hightower is he was a good 3rd down back and now we have royster who looks completely lost out there

Interesting point Ford.

Almost every series we could see Portis with a great blitz pickup. Now, I am not even sure who is our best blocking back, nor do I even see them doing it. I remember Morris a few times, but we should really be seeing Royster our 3rd down back.

Maybe we need to have Cooley as our 3rd down back. Obviously, Royster is of no threat on 3rd and long, and we can get a little more beef to help our porous pocket pass pro.

Its clearly not just someone to spell Morris / run the ball, that is hurting our team. When Morris is out, we have NO production out of backfield. Nada, null, niet. No back to block, run screens, draws, blitz pickups. Its a :doh: situation.

It's unthinkable on such a run heavy team, isn't it?

Its wise we picked up Keiland, but he is insurance only.

its no surprise why we suck ass on 3rd down. We don't even have a viable 3rd down running back. If nothing else, I would like to see Young used more on 3rd, or to spell Morris. At least try, and give his spot to Cooley.