Rant from a muslim about Taliban shooting14-year old girl

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/taliban-says-it-shot-infidel-pakistani-teen-for-advocating-girls-rights/2012/10/09/29715632-1214-11e2-9a39-1f5a7f6fe945_story.html

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan — A 14-year-old Pakistani student who won international acclaim for speaking out for girls barred from school by the Taliban was critically wounded Tuesday by a gunman who boarded her school bus, asked for her by name, aimed his pistol at her head and fired, officials said.

The Pakistani Taliban asserted responsibility for the attack on ninth-grader Malala Yousafzai, who gained notice in early 2009 when she wrote a diary about Taliban atrocities under a pen name for the BBC’s Urdu service. Yousafzai lives in Mingora, a city in the scenic northwestern Swat Valley, where Taliban insurgents imposed harsh Islamic law for two years before being routed by a major military operation in May 2009.

The following message is addressed to muslims, but all are free to join in the discussion:

Im sick of acting like this stuff isnt happening in my name, and I challenge all fellow muslims, to stand up and put an end to this stuff. Now. There is a real sickness in Pashtun society, and too many other muslim societies, and Islam is one of the victims of this sickness. This is not Islam. This is not even human. Lets stop trying to hide our problems under the carpet, we arent fooling anyone anymore, not even ourselves. I as a practicing muslim absolutely abhor what the Taliban just did. That they proudly admitted to it tells me they have more support within the society than I care to admit.

Remember the Quran tells us we are judged based on what our hands set forth AND on what we held back. If you choose to watch an injustice like this, and out of fear, hold back from justice or even protest against this, you shall answer to Allah on Judgement Day. Remember our prophet said (paraphrasing), "He who is kindest to women-folk will be closest to me on judgement day." Is this the way to treat women, in a kind manner, by trying to kill them when they are still children, without a trial, and then running off into the night? Is that what the prophet meant by kindness to women?

Or have we forgotten the prophet's injunction [paraphrase], "He who does not favor his sons over his daughters shall be granted entrance to Heaven." Would we sit idly by if someone tried to kill our sons for asking to be educated? I doubt it. So why do we do nothing when people take away our daughters' rights?

Not even most Salafi scholars believe that it is a crime to educate women. Did you know there are a number of muslim countries where more women than men hold college degrees? Including Gulf Countries, like Qatar and Bahrain, where the full Islamic abaya is required in public? Why then do we remain silent when the least educated and intelligent members of our society begin spreading lies (knowingly or unknowingly) about our religion, lies that even our scholars have spoken out against?

The prophet (pbuh) educated his wife Aisha (R.a.d.) to be a source of knowledge, and told his followers, "learn part of your religion from her [when I am gone]." According to the Taliban's logic, Aisha should have been put to death and the prophet (pbuh) committed a crime by educating her. Let that detonate in your mind for a second.

Also remember that the prophet predicted this fitna (catastrophe) woiuld happen to his ummah, as a minor sign of the anti-christ. He predicted the day that pious appearing young-men would use beautiful words (Quran) to call to evil. They will recite Quran, but they will not understand the words they speak. Doesnt that sound familiar?

They are parts of the world that are stuck in the 7th century or want to live like it was the 7th century. You aren't going to change them. They will have to change on their own one day.

I don't think you can eradicate this sort of nonsense. You have to do your best to try to curb it but at the end of the day people who feel desperate and/or alienated are going to do crazy things.

The Quran, just like the bible is always interpreted differently by different people with different views. The Taliban is one that has taken to interpret it the way they want to. That's why I hate religion. Religion is pretty much responsible for most of the world's problems today.

I don't think you can eradicate this sort of nonsense. You have to do your best to try to curb it but at the end of the day people who feel desperate and/or alienated are going to do crazy things.

BULL****

These aren't desperate people. They aren't children acting up because they are alienated. As much as I appreciate the thought behind Koala's post, they aren't even really Muslim. And they don't get a pass because it is NOT the 7th century. They are part of an EVIL CULT and they need to be wiped from the face of the earth.

It makes me want to throw up when I hear people say we should negotiate with them or let them be. Anyone who would give an inch to these ******** is as guilty of evil as the **** who pulled the trigger on that little girl. No. You don't get a pass because it's on the other side of the world.

If the only thing that evil needs to flourish is for good men to do nothing, what does it say about us if we negotiate deals to facilitate it? What does it say about us as a nation if we walk away because stoping the evil was "too hard" or it costs "too much"? What kind of future are we providing our children and the entire world by enabling an evil cult to spread?

It's times like this that I have feel no hope for the human race.

The Quran, just like the bible is always interpreted differently by different people with different views. The Taliban is one that has taken to interpret it the way they want to. That's why I hate religion. Religion is pretty much responsible for most of the world's problems today.

I don't know. Religion didn't point a gun at a girl's head and shoot her. People are responsible for these problems. One man can have religion and it leads him to peace while another man's leads him to strife. Religion might be a mechanism people use to justify their evil, but I think their evil comes from within themselves.

Some people just have hate in them. That hate comes from more and diverse sources than I can imagine: ignorance and fear, economic depression, a cycle of violence and injustice so that all they know is evil, a whole community of shared hatred, who knows? I think generally, religion is just a sort of mechanism people like this will use to make what they're doing seem righteous to themselves. You could take away Islam, Christianity, Judaism, whatever, and people would still scheme up an ideology to justify their cruelty, hatred, and evil.

These people are not Muslim and do not practice Islam. Islam does not teach these barbaric actions that the taliban and these other so called "muslim" groups are portraying. As a Muslim, it pisses me off to no end that these bammas have taken my religion and turned it into something it is not by spewing hate towards others and even to other muslims. It is absolutely sick and disgusting what they are doing.

I can only hope people can distinguish what Islam is really about vs what these ****s represent. They do not represent my religion.

I don't know. Religion didn't point a gun at a girl's head and shoot her. People are responsible for these problems. One man can have religion and it leads him to peace while another man's leads him to strife. Religion might be a mechanism people use to justify their evil, but I think their evil comes from within themselves.

Some people just have hate in them. That hate comes from more and diverse sources than I can imagine: ignorance and fear, economic depression, a cycle of violence and injustice so that all they know is evil, a whole community of shared hatred, who knows? I think generally, religion is just a sort of mechanism people like this will use to make what they're doing seem righteous to themselves. You could take away Islam, Christianity, Judaism, whatever, and people would still scheme up an ideology to justify their cruelty, hatred, and evil.

So why do they pick religion as justification for being evil? Hell, they're still fighing over a piece of a desert in Isreal going on what, hundreds of years? There's nothing there but hunks of rock. Religion is the #1 cause of most wars or conflicts.

So why do they pick religion as justification for being evil? Hell, they're still fighing over a piece of a desert in Isreal going on what, hundreds of years? There's nothing there but hunks of rock. Religion is the #1 cause of most wars or conflicts.

Religion is an ideological mechanism. People need ideological mechanisms to justify evil actions in order to ignore the immense social stigmas in place motivating people not to do certain kinds of evil (murder, theft).

For a lot of these people, I imagine religion is already thought out for them, and someone they trust can seem to have authority through his "expertise" in said religion, and he can motivate them to do evil. But religion, like any ideological mechanism, is just a tool and not the root cause IMO. There is some sort of specific desperation or problem that's the genesis of the evil.

Religion is the #1 cause of most wars or conflicts.

No it's not. Just because evil men use religion as an excuse or cover for their lust for power, does not mean that religion is the cause of the evil.

Hell, they're still fighing over a piece of a desert in Isreal going on what, hundreds of years? There's nothing there but hunks of rock.

I generally find the "religion is the root of all evil" argument to be tiresome, simplistic, and pointless (usually ending up in some kind of list of good/bad the participants are expected to somehow weigh, like stoning women vs. charity hospitals), but I did think you should know that you probably couldn't have picked a worse example to try to prove your point. Take a look at this map:

Do you suppose there might be something there to fight over besides religion?

By the way, not to sidetrack things, but the girl had the bullet taken out a few hours ago and is reportedly no longer in critical condition.

http://dawn.com/2012/10/10/doctors-to-decide-if-malala-needs-treatment-abroad/

$100,000 bounty now offered by the Pakistan government for capturing the attackers.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia/2012/10/2012101014927180385.html

:applause:

That is all.

They are parts of the world that are stuck in the 7th century or want to live like it was the 7th century. You aren't going to change them. They will have to change on their own one day.

I don't think we're giving the 7th century enough credit

No it's not. Just because evil men use religion as an excuse or cover for their lust for power, does not mean that religion is the cause of the evil.

now, this is true. all kinds of people do- and have done- evil things under the guise of a religion that teaches the opposite. they convince themselves that what they are doing is righteous, thereby mentally, at least, empowering them further.

at some point, their beliefs have nothing at all to do with the religion they say they believe.

basically, people are nuts.

I generally find the "religion is the root of all evil" argument to be tiresome, simplistic, and pointless (usually ending up in some kind of list of good/bad the participants are expected to somehow weigh, like stoning women vs. charity hospitals), but I did think you should know that you probably couldn't have picked a worse example to try to prove your point. Take a look at this map:

http://blue.utb.edu/paullgj/geog3320/lectures/cresmap.gif

Do you suppose there might be something there to fight over besides religion?

Reminds me of this:

Do you suppose there might be something there to fight over besides religion?

Alex: What are goats?

I generally find the "religion is the root of all evil" argument to be tiresome, simplistic, and pointless <edit>

I know you're not prone to do such, so allow me to add "stunningly stupid and requires pissing all over your critical thinking engine---and that fluid is not helpful to its operation."

I'd apologize for attaching my crudity to your more dignified presentation, but then I remember it's flawed to ask forgiveness if one is not truly repentant.

I know you're not prone to do such, so allow me to add "stunningly stupid and requires pissing all over your critical thinking engine---and that fluid is not helpful to its operation."

If we're contributing crudity, can I suggest that while religion is not the root of all evil, it is an abundant source of 'natural fertilizer' that encourages very poisonous plants to flourish.

BULL****

It makes me want to throw up when I hear people say we should negotiate with them or let them be. Anyone who would give an inch to these ******** is as guilty of evil as the **** who pulled the trigger on that little girl. No. You don't get a pass because it's on the other side of the world.

If the only thing that evil needs to flourish is for good men to do nothing, what does it say about us if we negotiate deals to facilitate it? What does it say about us as a nation if we walk away because stoping the evil was "too hard" or it costs "too much"? What kind of future are we providing our children and the entire world by enabling an evil cult to spread?

Dude, I think we need to pack our stuff up and roll out, there isn't anything we can do to change the minds of the lunatics that run these countries/communities, I will say this doesn't make me "as guilty as the evil **** that pulled the trigger" that's just ignorant.

:applause:

That is all.

Oh, now you have sunk so low as to cheer the murder of a little girl, just because she's a Muslim, to further your racist conservative agenda. Have you no shame?

internet logic

BTW, P, thank you for the video. I recognized the late Mr. Williams voice instantly and that movie theme was a favortie as a kid. I think my aunt had the Ferrante & Teicher album of it. I used to baffle both friends my age and adults in my life when as a teenager I would go right from Johnny Horton to Elvis to The Animals to Andy Williams to Harry James to Etta James to Mozart to Man of La Mancha.

I hadn't heard that for a long time and last time I went hunting real performances of it, I came up empty on the AW version.

And Corc---if you want me to cosign that most everything George said about religion resonates with me at some level of another, or that religion frequently features a mountainous helping of amazingly convoluted cognition, and enabling "fertilizer' for bad (and even murderous) behaviors, and just sheer bull**** in the more general sense, you got it.

But to paraphrase the late Mr. Harvey, "there's also the rest of the story." And it includes all the positives of religion and how all the bad noted is also prominent in human institutions other than religion, because it's all human. The flaws are built right into the foundation of the structures from the get-go, even when specifically claimed "tis not so." I hope that day comes where either religion or man (or both) changes enough to where I would feel like stating things much differently. But that doesn't mean we need to lay down and cease striving for improvement, even if the institution is such that it powerfully resists or even forbids change. I subscribe to the idea that "in the here and now" at minimum, any institution can only be what people allow it to be.

Just a side note:

To all the people that say "Islam doesn't allow this" or "this is against the teachings of Islam," please spare us the B.S.

You can pull out quotes which support your argument and I can pull out quotes which contradict those. The problem is two fold. A.) Those people (Taliban, LeT, Muslim Brotherhood etc..) are still stuck in the 7th century, and B.) Poverty/Education (Lack there of).

Until the infrastructures are in place to promote a more Modern society in those countries (I'm looking at you Saudia Arabia/Pakistan) this will continue to happen. No curbing it whatsoever.

In the end, people need to start realizing that no matter who you are, where you're from, we all deserve basic human rights. Unfortunately a lot of people still put too much faith into God and this invisible fellow sitting in the skies watching our every move. Earth to you religious nut jobs...that fellow doesn't exist and no amount of praying will get you anything.

/rant off

And speaking of not-so-poisonous religious dudes, the Dalai Lama was rocking a William & Mary visor for his 'chat' at William & Mary Hall this afternoon.

And speaking of not-so-poisonous religious dudes, the Dalai Lama was rocking a William & Mary visor for his 'chat' at William & Mary Hall this afternoon.

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQgUe2WIJmBr3RBW5rpdeb5154KTiO6lnhNENlUt_pEA6H3z2fR06i0x8cy2w

Tempted to bring up the various young people who burned themselves to death in Tibet over the past few years or so.

Ah hell....

http://www.voanews.com/content/latest-self-immolation-in-tibets-brings-total-to-54/1521684.html

Latest Self-Immolation in Tibet Brings Total to 54