(March, 2011) Hey, Mike. You're Losing Me, Man.

. . .

I've been a Redskins fan for 65 of my 75 years, but you're THIS close to losing me. I don't mean you personally. I mean the organization which is now in your control.

Please stop your prattle about "building the right way." You didn't do it in Denver; you didn't do it last year; and you're not likely to do it this year. Please stop treating me like I'm a dunce. If things shake out as we expect them to, there will be a double-dose of free agents on the market. There's no way in hell you're going to resist filling our roster with castoffs.

I had hoped to see the Redskins rise to the top before I die: Number One in the NFL. That's never going to happen as long as Dan Snyder owns the team. So, I'm willing to settle: If winning next season will be the team's goal every year, then let's, at the very least, have a sound plan to achieve that goal. Here are my thoughts on that:

The Fletcher Prototype: Trade draft picks for, or search free agency, for players who remind you of London Fletcher: They are smart, technically sound, productive and healthy -- and they are underrated because they played on losing teams. Pass on the Big Name free agents to stay within the salary cap.

Quarterback: Get a 27 - 30 year old, veteran QB who fits the Fletcher Prototype. Don't worry about his fit to your scheme. Get the best QB available and adapt your scheme to his skillset.

Strong Core: Eleven positions form the core: A number one WR, two OTs, a QB and a RB on offense. On a 34 defense: A number one corner, two edge rushers, a nose and a FS. Special teams: a dangerous return man. Focus hard on filling these positions.

Screw the draft: If the "future is now," then George Allen's plan is the way to go. Trade those picks for vets who fit the Fletcher Prototype. Exceptions: Find your RB and your return man in the draft.

I wouldn't say he or the organization is close to losing me (and im not one of those if u dont support the team youre not as big of a fan as i am, b/c usually by week 8 i hate the Redskins. lol) but i would also like to see us go in one direction or another. I mean i really really want to build through the draft and have a really good young team for years to come. However i dont think thats the way its going to happen here. So i more or less want to see us either go all for youth and use the draft or do like oldfan says. Im sick of doing it half-*** b/c it doesn't work.

We'd be an amazing team if we had 22 London Fletcher type players. Unfortunately Fletcher is a special player and just like having a team with 22 Pro Bowlers, its hard to find.

Why even watch the games if you already know that everything is going to be so terrible?

The moves at the end of the season and beginning of this offseason have been the best possible. You're looking at this with such a fatalistic view that you'll never be happy, really.

A return man? What, are we giving up on Banks? He's trying to gain weight, give him a few months

The Fletcher Prototype: Trade draft picks for, or search free agency, for players who remind you of London Fletcher: They are smart, technically sound, productive and healthy -- and they are underrated because they played on losing teams. Pass on the Big Name free agents to stay within the salary cap.

I am sure just about every team is looking for London Fletcher types

Quarterback: Get a 27 - 30 year old, veteran QB who fits the Fletcher Prototype. Don't worry about his fit to your scheme. Get the best QB available and adapt your scheme to his skillset..

No such player in FA.

Strong Core: Eleven positions form the core: A number one WR, two OTs, a QB and a RB on offense. On a 34 defense: A number one corner, two edge rushers, a nose and a FS. Special teams: a dangerous return man. Focus hard on filling these positions.

They have some of the guys already. Key IMO is a nose tackle, one more pass rusher, at least one guard, resign J. Brown, or sign R. Harris for RT. A QB of course would be nice, as would a WR. As you know it ain't going to all happen in one off season.

Screw the draft: If the "future is now," then George Allen's plan is the way to go. Trade those picks for vets who fit the Fletcher Prototype. Exceptions: Find your RB and your return man in the draft.

I addressed this a few minutes ago in another thread. You like to believe Shanny has strong George Allen tendencies. But his consistent history of collecting draft picks in Denver is terribly inconvenient to this mantra that you continue to sing. I think you have an interesting argument with critiquing him on defenses, heck even taking him on about personnel decisions. But the future is now stuff as Shanny's thing -- at best that's a mixed argument unless his 11 years doing this should be purely defined by McNabb -- which seems silly to me.

A return man? What, are we giving up on Banks? He's trying to gain weight, give him a few months

Wow a 75 year old on a forum

Now I've seen everything

Anyway yes it is true the rumors about Mike building a program didn't work as well in Denver, but I hope he has learned from his mistakes and drafts well. The Trent Williams pick looks good. We don't have the Broncos GM here, we have a Redskins GM Bruce Allen and he will work with Mike to improve the team

Redskins fans should be highly encouraged by the 2nd half resurgence of this team, combined with a young talent base of Torian and Banks

The future is now

I am sure just about every team is looking for London Fletcher types

Sure, but that doesn't mean we couldn't get some of them. Also, there are several teams that ARE thinking long-term who wouldn't be interested in adding an older player.

No such player in FA.

OF never specified adding this player via FA.

They have some of the guys already. Key IMO is a nose tackle, one more pass rusher, at least one guard, resign J. Brown, or sign R. Harris for RT. A QB of course would be nice, as would a WR. As you know it ain't going to all happen in one off season.

I agree with most of what you wrote above. They have one OT, the FS (hopefully), one of the edge rushers, and the return man.

Here's a definition for "prototype:"

someone or something that serves to illustrate the typical qualities of a class; model; exemplar: She is the prototype of a student activist.

So, not all teams use London Fletcher as a prototype and I'm not suggesting that we need 22 players as good as London Fletcher.

---------- Post added March-11th-2011 at 09:02 AM ----------

You like to believe Shanny has strong George Allen tendencies. But his consistent history of collecting draft picks in Denver is terribly inconvenient to this mantra that you continue to sing.

Please read the OP carefully. I am suggesting that Mike be more like George Allen and trade draft picks. Why would I do that if I felt his resume reflected George Allen's methods?

Here's a poster (#2) who understood my position on the first try:

I wouldn't say he or the organization is close to losing me (and im not one of those if u dont support the team youre not as big of a fan as i am, b/c usually by week 8 i hate the Redskins. lol) but i would also like to see us go in one direction or another. I mean i really really want to build through the draft and have a really good young team for years to come. However i dont think thats the way its going to happen here. So i more or less want to see us either go all for youth and use the draft or do like oldfan says. Im sick of doing it half-*** b/c it doesn't work.

. . .You didn't do it in Denver; you didn't do it last year; and you're not going to do it this year.

Let me ask this, would you agree that some people get jobs that maybe they are not quite ready for, but as they learn on the fly they can grow into them and become even great at what they do?

Take a look at the last three years Mike was in Denver and what he left that team when he was fired. Most of those players were young, drafted, and hitting their stride when they made the coaching change. There are a lot of people that think if there had not been a total roster overhaul they would be a top AFC team.

Isn't it possible that Mike learned during his time in Denver what worked (the last three years he was the GM and coach) and what did not work (the term before that when he was the GM and coach).

It seems to me he turned a corner and is carrying that knowledge here. We can argue all day about if trading for McNabb was right or wrong at the time, but other then that move there is not much wrong with that was instituted last year.

To say you "know" what is going to happen this offseason and that Mike is losing you because of it is exactly what you say Skinsparadise is doing.

Creating a theory and then attacking Mike because you do not like what you think he is going to do.

OF never specified adding this player via FA.

Then where would you get a 27-30 year old QB? Chris Weinke is the exception.

Also, there is a thread where something like 21/22 of picks in his last 3 drafts were still in the NFL.

Are you kidding me. The best teams in the NFL use both the draft and free agency. Just take a look at the Patriots and the Jets for gods sake and Oldfan, get off your high horse and be patient with Mike. He IS building the team the right way. Everyone makes mistakes along the way.

Hey Mike, I know you don't listen to us and really don't give a rats ass what we have to say, keep up the good work! :thumbsup:

Then where would you get a 27-30 year old QB? Chris Weinke is the exception.

Also, there is a thread where something like 21/22 of picks in his last 3 drafts were still in the NFL.

Trade? I don't have a list of potential players, but I have to imagine there are veteran QBs available. Keep in mind, he didn't specify that this would need a be a franchise QB, but more like a solid veteran...maybe even a backup who is blocked by a franchise QB?

Let me ask this, would you agree that some people get jobs that maybe they are not quite ready for, but as they learn on the fly they can grow into them and become even great at what they do?

Take a look at the last three years Mike was in Denver and what he left that team when he was fired. Most of those players were young, drafted, and hitting their stride when they made the coaching change. There are a lot of people that think if there had not been a total roster overhaul they would be a top AFC team.

Isn't it possible that Mike learned during his time in Denver what worked (the last three years he was the GM and coach) and what did not work (the term before that when he was the GM and coach).

It seems to me he turned a corner and is carrying that knowledge here. We can argue all day about if trading for McNabb was right or wrong at the time, but other then that move there is not much wrong with that was instituted last year.

To say you "know" what is going to happen this offseason and that Mike is losing you because of it is exactly what you say Skinsparadise is doing.

Creating a theory and then attacking Mike because you do not like what you think he is going to do.

There is another thread on the front page in which we debated your point at length. See "Breaking down Shanahan's last three drafts in Denver..." There are a couple of links in that thread to Bronco Forums that are enlightening on this topic also.

The Broncos had two very good drafts, 2006 and 2008, which added six young starters to the offense. My opponents argued that these drafts and the facts that the 2008 Broncos were one of the youngest teams in the NFL, were evidence that Shanahan was rebuilding rather than reloading every year (my position). See if you can punch holes in my counter (no one in the other thread tried).

Whether a team is embarked on a rebuilding plan or a reloading plan, they will try to hit on each and every draft selection every year. Thus, success or failure in the draft does not tell us whether the team was rebuilding or reloading. When the team is successful in recent drafts, the average age of the team will drop as an effect. So, the average age of the team does not, on its own, tell us whether the team intended to rebuild or reload.

Here are some of the signs I look for:

[reload] Did the team trade draft picks for vets?

[reload] Did the team give substantial practice and playing time to its older players and free agent vets?

[reload] Did the team audition young players only after being mathematically from the playoffs?

[rebuild] Did the team team trade vets for draft picks?

[rebuild] Did the team keep its roster free of older vets while auditioning UDFAs and other young players from the offseason until the final game?

These are are general statements allowing for a few exceptions.

Oldfan, I hope this post was cathartic for you, because it was a cry in the wilderness. Shanny is a genius, just ask him. He was a genius is Denver and he is a genius now. Unless John Elway and Terrell Davis clones walk through the door tomorrow, Shanny will be eternally convinced that his scheme works. Even though there is not an ounce of evidence that it works, or has ever worked. By any measuring stick, the Skins should be worse this year than last (if there is a season), and Shanny will be stuck in the same old boat that Joe Gibbs was in, thinking that the future was bright when it really wasn't.

FWIW I agree with your solutions. I hope that does it for you, because that's all your going to get.

Oldfan: Did Mike bench his starter in favor of Cutler even though his team was in the think of the playoff chase only to fall out with the young QB because he knew that it was important to play the young player since that was the future of the team and not the vet?

That sounds good, but we've been down this road before. It rarely works out. We been looking for a London Fletcher before we got London Fletcher. The only London Fletcher we found was London Fletcher.

We have to build through the draft if we want to be consistently successful.

EH, no thanks. We have been trading picks for years and that's a big reason why we are dooky right now. If you can't look around the NFL and see what formula is successful then it isn't really worth a debate.

We may never be good again, but if we are... it certainly isn't going to be from doing the same things we have been doing for ages.

I don't get these threads.

You are telling me that you managed to stick it out during the Spurier, Zorn...and let's face it, entire Snyderatto eras, and all of a sudden NOW you are gonna bail on the Skins because of this or that?

I don't buy it, sorry.

EH, no thanks. We have been trading picks for years and that's a big reason why we are dooky right now. If you can't look around the NFL and see what formula is successful then it isn't really worth a debate.

We may never be good again, but if we are... it certainly isn't going to be from doing the same things we have been doing for ages.

...FWIW I agree with your solutions. I hope that does it for you, because that's all your going to get.

Why even watch the games if you already know that everything is going to be so terrible?

The moves at the end of the season and beginning of this offseason have been the best possible. You're looking at this with such a fatalistic view that you'll never be happy, really.

I dont watch, got rid of the "Ticket" last year

I don't get these threads.

You are telling me that you managed to stick it out during the Spurier, Zorn...and let's face it, entire Snyderatto eras, and all of a sudden NOW you are gonna bail on the Skins because of this or that?

I don't buy it, sorry.