The Nunyo Files -- Factual errors and other mistakes from Nunyo.

[Beaudry]

Originally posted by bubba9497

???? Woody does not get basic detail info wrong.

If you don't include player names as basic detail, then you may be right. I like Woody just fine, but he makes factual errors way more often than the average sports writer.

[zoony]

By having all of the inconsistencies and errors on a bulleted list, it has changed my perception of Nunyo from a writer who occasionally slips up on a detail or two to a bumbling/fumbling/stumbling shlup.

We are talking about the Washington friggin Post here. One of the greatest papers in the entire World. Reporting on one of the most valuable Sports Franchises in ALL of professional sports.

And they get this guy? :doh:

We as 'Skins fans should expect more.

[TK]

Originally posted by zoony

By having all of the inconsistencies and errors on a bulleted list, it has changed my perception of Nunyo from a writer who occasionally slips up on a detail or two to a bumbling/fumbling/stumbling shlup.

We are talking about the Washington friggin Post here. One of the greatest papers in the entire World. Reporting on one of the most valuable Sports Franchises in ALL of professional sports.

And they get this guy? :doh:

We as 'Skins fans should expect more.

B.I.N.G.O.

Welcome to the light.

[bubba9497]

Originally posted by Beaudry

If you don't include player names as basic detail, then you may be right. I like Woody just fine, but he makes factual errors way more often than the average sports writer.

:laugh:

please provide some examples, and I will gladly agree with you. But everything I have read that Woody wrote doesn't have glaring mistakes, like Mr. nunyo.

[wskin44]

Originally posted by Hooper

I really don't have a problem with Nunyo reporting what much of the league thinks about a certain signing or coaching move or whatever (something Maske didn't do as much as in his Redskins coverage). That's not editorializing in my opinion. He certainly isn't as bad as Lenny P or Don Banks, who seem to have a genuine hatred for the skins and routinely go out of their way to bash them.

The problem is that Nunyo isn't just reporting what others think, he is reporting what others think as if it is fact. Worse, his own reporting is full of errors and is being repeated by others as if it is fact. Either way it is the blind leading the blind. And I DO have a problem with that.

[wskin44]

Originally posted by Art

I have no clout whatsoever. In fact, it's probable I annoy the hell out of these guys and qualify as a message board lunatic. .

:rotflmao:

[Die Hard]

Originally posted by bubba9497

please provide some examples, and I will gladly agree with you. But everything I have read that Woody wrote doesn't have glaring mistakes, like Mr. nunyo.

You haven't been reading much of Woody then in the past few years Bubba.

He still is as bad as Nunyo. He gets a bit of a pass because he writes for the Daily Press and might get an article or two published at TSN... both second rate media sources. And he gets stuff published maybe once a week if not a few.

Nunyo is a full-time Redskins journalists for one of the largest print media in the U.S.

Big difference. BIG BIG difference.

But Woody has lost credibility from most Redskins fans. You read his columns... because well, they're in print. Just like you'd read that Mid-Atlantic article.

It's there. You read it. But you don't put much stock into it because you aren't looking for professional, late-breaking, cutting edge stuff.

But a source like ESPN, Washington Post and any other national media... the bar gets raised.

[Art]

Originally posted by zoony

By having all of the inconsistencies and errors on a bulleted list, it has changed my perception of Nunyo from a writer who occasionally slips up on a detail or two to a bumbling/fumbling/stumbling shlup.

We are talking about the Washington friggin Post here. One of the greatest papers in the entire World. Reporting on one of the most valuable Sports Franchises in ALL of professional sports.

And they get this guy? :doh:

We as 'Skins fans should expect more.

Welcome.

Line forms to the right .

Behind E-Dog .

[Art]

Originally posted by Mr. S

wow, never knew you were this passionate about it Art. Sounds like a good idea, just making him realize his mistakes especially. If not, what happened to your idea of storming the washington post forums, ive still got my membership there, though never turned back once I came here.

That little flight of fancy evaporated after I had a chance to converse with Nunyo some. I respect a guy willing to argue for himself and take blunt, often mean, criticism and engage in the conversation. Now, I think Nunyo is a bit disconnected from the reality of what fans really think of him, and I disagree with him on the basic premise of what he believes qualifies as excellent reporting, but, a guy willing to have the conversation is a guy you can fix .

[E-Dog Night]

Hey now Art! That's a low blow (I'm guessing you'll disagree...). But kinda funny nonetheless.

Have to admit, it's hard to keep defending him with all this evidence staring me in the face.

I'm starting to wonder if he's doing this on purpose, because these are some obviously easy mistakes to fact check. Maybe he figures, if I screw up enough, they'll fire me? I mean, does he want this job?

If not, talk about a line forming. I'm in! You won't even have to pay me much!

All I have to do is run my articles by Art first, and I’m golden.

[SkinsNatsFan]

Originally posted by zoony

One of the greatest papers in the entire World.

That's the only part of your post I may not agree with. Unless by greatest you mean this ...

Originally posted by Die Hard

... one of the largest print media ...

Otherwise, nice post!

[Art]

Originally posted by E-Dog Night

Hey now Art! That's a low blow (I'm guessing you'll disagree...). But kinda funny nonetheless.

Have to admit, it's hard to keep defending him with all this evidence staring me in the face.

I'm starting to wonder if he's doing this on purpose, because these are some obviously easy mistakes to fact check. Maybe he figures, if I screw up enough, they'll fire me? I mean, does he want this job?

If not, talk about a line forming. I'm in! You won't even have to pay me much!

All I have to do is run my articles by Art first, and I’m golden.

Just showin' you the luv .

I know the Post editors have Nunyo's back and he'll be around for a long time. I know because it keeps getting said to me, so, either it's true, or, it's being said to create the impression he's on more stable ground than he is . Kind of like an owner giving a coach a vote of confidence .

Frankly, I can't believe the errors that are allowed to get in. Without stating exactly what was said, as I do not share the content of mail replies with the board, the chief sports editor wrote me back and was very supportive of Nunyo, but acknowledged a bit more care could be taken in his writing, and some added attention will be paid to some of his facts in the future, AND a correction would be run regarding some of the errors in the Gardner article.

That's a start.

If that happens, the conversation shifts to tone and style, and here, more people will side with Nunyo as they are inclined to the same feelings. We get to that point, and at least we have an interesting debate.

Right now, it's just embarrassing.

[zoony]

Originally posted by SkinsNatsFan

That's the only part of your post I may not agree with. Unless by greatest you mean this ...

Otherwise, nice post!

:laugh:

[Beaudry]

Originally posted by zoony

By having all of the inconsistencies and errors on a bulleted list, it has changed my perception of Nunyo from a writer who occasionally slips up on a detail or two to a bumbling/fumbling/stumbling shlup.

We are talking about the Washington friggin Post here. One of the greatest papers in the entire World. Reporting on one of the most valuable Sports Franchises in ALL of professional sports.

And they get this guy? :doh:

We as 'Skins fans should expect more.

I feel the same way. I didn't really pay attention to the errors individualy, but as a whole they do pile up.

I'll keep my eye out for Woody mis-names. I couldn't find a good way to research his past articles.

[E-Dog Night]

Originally posted by Art

Just showin' you the luv .

I know the Post editors have Nunyo's back and he'll be around for a long time. I know because it keeps getting said to me, so, either it's true, or, it's being said to create the impression he's on more stable ground than he is . Kind of like an owner giving a coach a vote of confidence .

Frankly, I can't believe the errors that are allowed to get in. Without stating exactly what was said, as I do not share the content of mail replies with the board, the chief sports editor wrote me back and was very supportive of Nunyo, but acknowledged a bit more care could be taken in his writing, and some added attention will be paid to some of his facts in the future, AND a correction would be run regarding some of the errors in the Gardner article.

That's a start.

If that happens, the conversation shifts to tone and style, and here, more people will side with Nunyo as they are inclined to the same feelings. We get to that point, and at least we have an interesting debate.

Right now, it's just embarrassing.

Ok, I love a good conspiracy theory. Try this on for size.

Just before Nunyo gets hired, the relationship between the Post and Snyder is nice and easy, even cushy. The Post gets the scoops, the Skins gets good press, and everyone is happy.

Then the hits start. I could be wrong about the timeline here because this happened years ago, but I believe it went something like this:

The Redskins suffer more losses than expected, and Snyder's reputation takes hits. In the arena of public opinion, he’s a young, brash, meddlesome owner. He doesn't know what he's doing. He's treating the Redskins like a fantasy football team and breaking up team chemistry while signing big name, aging players to more money than God makes. And the Redskins have no more than 8 wins to show for it since '99. And it all looks like Snyder's fault, especially when he fires the HC mid-season while the team had a chance to make the playoffs.

So, eventually, the Post runs a particularly unflattering article about Snyder. They profile his mistakes and don't go too far out of their way to defend him.

Snyder gets pissed. He slips a couple of scoops to the Moonie (eh, excuse me, I mean Washington) Times. It goes back and forth for a while.

Then, the Post takes Mark Maske, a Redskins fan, off the beat and hires an outsider from across the country to cover the team. They purposely tell him not to be soft on the Redskins. They do this because they know it will infuriate Snyder, as retaliation.

And that's why the Post has Nunyo's back. Because Snyder has done things that have irritated the entire Post organization and no one has any love for Snyder over there any more. So when Nunyo gets his facts wrong and intimates that the FO is dysfunctional, they know it gets way under Snyder’s skin.

And they love it, chuckling all the way to the offset printing press.

Just a wild, outlandish theory. Couldn't possibly be accurate.

Right?

[zoony]

Originally posted by Art

That little flight of fancy evaporated after I had a chance to converse with Nunyo some. I respect a guy willing to argue for himself and take blunt, often mean, criticism and engage in the conversation. Now, I think Nunyo is a bit disconnected from the reality of what fans really think of him, and I disagree with him on the basic premise of what he believes qualifies as excellent reporting, but, a guy willing to have the conversation is a guy you can fix .

Wait a minute, did I miss something? Did you say in another thread that Nunyo reads in here... and from the above you had a conversation with him?

Sometimes I don't have time to check all the thread in here... was there a chat between you two that I missed?

What did he say when you slammed him?

[ArmchairRedskin]

I think Art's just buckin for a job :laugh:

I do miss Maske, though. Nunyo has really been a major disappointment as Maske's replacement. Maybe this whole deal willl make a difference. I think we deserve better than to have a beat writer who doesn't fact check and an editor who obviously doesn't care enough to either.

[wskin44]

Originally posted by ArmchairRedskin

I think Art's just buckin for a job :laugh:

And from the Post platform he will buck to become the Redskins' GM. :laugh:

[Art]

Originally posted by zoony

Wait a minute, did I miss something? Did you say in another thread that Nunyo reads in here... and from the above you had a conversation with him?

Sometimes I don't have time to check all the thread in here... was there a chat between you two that I missed?

What did he say when you slammed him?

I know -- have known -- that Nunyo reads here as does LaCanfora. I have had it confirmed the editor of the sports section is well aware of the attacks against Nunyo here and is, himself, a regular reader.

I think that they see this kind of stuff is good, as if they see fans actually uniting behind an obvious cause, they will be responsive to that shift. I have had a mail conversation with Nunyo in which I can safely say he thinks I'm nuts and I think he's dramatically out of touch. But, it's a good conversation .

I even invited him to an Extremeskins.com chat. It wouldn't be a standard, silly chat like HR.com had. It would be kind of a pointed chat, based on member statements and concerns, regarding his coverage, how he sees himself and the like. He has interest, but isn't certain I won't screw him and not accurately quote him, so, if he develops that trust of me, we'll put something like that together.

If not, we won't.

[zoony]

You two head to head on an ES thread?

That would be some dam fine entertainment. :munchout:

Good luck and I think that's pretty cool that this site is approaching a position where it can influence the WP. If you take a step back and think about it, that is pretty impressive.

.....

[zoony]

Originally posted by E-Dog Night

Just a wild, outlandish theory. Couldn't possibly be accurate.

Right?

E-Dog I don't know the answer to your question but that was definitely a fine read :laugh:

Dan Brown... is that you?

[Art]

Originally posted by E-Dog Night

Ok, I love a good conspiracy theory. Try this on for size.

Just before Nunyo gets hired, the relationship between the Post and Snyder is nice and easy, even cushy. The Post gets the scoops, the Skins gets good press, and everyone is happy.

Then the hits start. I could be wrong about the timeline here because this happened years ago, but I believe it went something like this:

The Redskins suffer more losses than expected, and Snyder's reputation takes hits. In the arena of public opinion, he’s a young, brash, meddlesome owner. He doesn't know what he's doing. He's treating the Redskins like a fantasy football team and breaking up team chemistry while signing big name, aging players to more money than God makes. And the Redskins have no more than 8 wins to show for it since '99. And it all looks like Snyder's fault, especially when he fires the HC mid-season while the team had a chance to make the playoffs.

So, eventually, the Post runs a particularly unflattering article about Snyder. They profile his mistakes and don't go too far out of their way to defend him.

Snyder gets pissed. He slips a couple of scoops to the Moonie (eh, excuse me, I mean Washington) Times. It goes back and forth for a while.

Then, the Post takes Mark Maske, a Redskins fan, off the beat and hires an outsider from across the country to cover the team. They purposely tell him not to be soft on the Redskins. They do this because they know it will infuriate Snyder, as retaliation.

And that's why the Post has Nunyo's back. Because Snyder has done things that have irritated the entire Post organization and no one has any love for Snyder over there any more. So when Nunyo gets his facts wrong and intimates that the FO is dysfunctional, they know it gets way under Snyder’s skin.

And they love it, chuckling all the way to the offset printing press.

Just a wild, outlandish theory. Couldn't possibly be accurate.

Right?

Yeah, pretty outlandish.

Why? Because the team didn't initiate the break with the Post. The Post initiated it with the team. Remember, Maske went out in a blaze of glory with the Gibbs story. Remember, as well, the Times was the redheaded step child. The spurned. The damned.

Some trace the removal of Maske to a somewhat small story he lost out on to a paper in New York. He had the story, but not from the team aspect and didn't run with it. The Post editors, if stories are to be believed, were upset with that cozy a relationship and felt it was time to move Maske on, obstensibly upward, but, all know the NFL beat is a backward move, unless the writer intends to move into column writing eventually, then it's probably sideways.

Anyway, when the beat was given to Nunyo, given my conversations with him, he presented himself as a guy willing to go with stories that come from the periphery. He started making errors RIGHT away. The team certainly started talking to him about it. Had to, it was some bad stuff.

His early stuff revealed a lack of sourcing and somewhat troubling journalism at its base. Whole reaches within stories written with no sources at all, even hinted at. Nunyo subscribes to the school of journalism that says your beat is your adversary. Believe nothing. Work the edges. Compel them to pay attention to you by GETTING the story elsewhere and making them give you the rest.

Of course, this works in government, but not on a team that keeps important stuff very close to the vest. Some have openly speculated that Nunyo's closest source is someone actually VERY close to Gibbs. Maybe Griff knows something about this .

Only a couple of people ACTUALLY know what's going on at the Park. The Skins are among the best in the league at controlling the story by limiting those in the know. And, the Post's coverage has kind of run away with the story with seeming disdain for what the team would say in any case. Therefore, the team is working to get control again.

Already you can see two media outlets being favored. You may see a cozy period again with Lenny the Hutt in coming weeks, though, that's a terrific guess .

Doubtless Snyder is somewhat concerned with the coverage, because, internally, the team has to think it's HURTING them. Think about the seemingly simple error Nunyo put out about Williams having contractual control of the defense. That broke with the Brown story. Why is this important?

What if Brown thought Williams controlled this and thought the team wasn't giving him respect by sending out guys who had no control. Certainly no one knows if that happened or not, but it could have. The repeated stories on Moss and his contract put leverage with the player and against the team.

Sometimes simple errors or runaway opinion in a report can have a negative impact. So, yeah, Snyder's probably not thrilled here. For good reason. He should break the backs of the Post to be honest. The team could easily do so.

How, you ask?

What if the team gave every story to WJFK to break. Everything. Hell, what if suddenly tomorrow, the only way the Post could report a player release is after Extremeskins.com had it officially released. Imagine having to cite a fan site because you can't get the team to respond to you.

The Post may not know this, but, it needs the team MORE than the team needs the Post. If the team were inclined, it could break the Post's coverage, getting concessions. Kind of like conservatives did with CNN a while back, boycotting appearances until CNN agreed to alter it's coverage.

There's leverage in access. The Post needs to hope the team doesn't take the nuclear option with them .

[Art]

Originally posted by zoony

You two head to head on an ES thread?

That would be some dam fine entertainment. :munchout:

Good luck and I think that's pretty cool that this site is approaching a position where it can influence the WP. If you take a step back and think about it, that is pretty impressive.

.....

At some point there becomes meaning in the size of this site. While never probably intended, this site is evolving into a place that can move perceptions. You see that in this thread. You saw it with the Cerrato interview.

When you factor in the unique hits and page reads, we're actually going to surpass most media outlets, including the Post, in "circulation". Within five years or less, when it comes to the Redskins, this site will likely have the potency to move people.

I don't think we're there yet.

But, yes, it's starting to matter what people -- not me, but you guys -- think. That's why I've been so critical of some crazy comments many make in support of ignorant ideas. What is said is STARTING to matter. Very little, perhaps, but it is beginning.

People need to be mindful.

As for a chat with Nunyo, my guess is I will have run him off with my dogged debating technique and would blame no one but MYSELF if that were the case.

[Awesome]

Paul Woody should be thanking his lucky stars the eye of ART has not fixed itself on him. But Art, aren't you and Woody boys? Weren't you at the T-D for a few years?

[Art]

Originally posted by Awesome

Paul Woody should be thanking his lucky stars the eye of ART has not fixed itself on him. But Art, aren't you and Woody boys? Weren't you at the T-D for a few years?

As I said, I know Woody personally and was a very low-level reporter/copy desker back in the day with him. I did get to cover one Skins game with him .