DarkLadyRaven Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 Originally posted by ntotoro So... you're saying that makes it ok... ? Nick Nope Im just saying the middle east did not start becoming a hot spot till the British tried to divide it up and untill isreal was created. They just seemed happy having the entire middle east. They have had no success anywhere else except for say Indonesia( including being smacked by hindus in India). They seem to want the middle east and just seemed to stop there. I hear its something about having no infidels in the MIDDLE EAST and not really too much on conquering the world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjTj Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 Originally posted by SkinsHokieFan I wish I could have read DU (if it was around) in 1989 when the Berlin Wall fell and seen what those loons said then Al Gore hadn't invented the internet yet In any case, DU tends to argue with itself on issues like this: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1271439 There's always people that are rabidly anti-Bush and always people who call them out for it ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
du7st Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 If you are going to tell me how I think before I even post, I might as well live up to your expectations. Read half the posts on this thread - they are not meant to get everyone around to celebrate. It's petty "I told you so" garbage. I am just giving you what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 For those of us that are from the region (or have family there or whatever) and have seen the benifits and fruits of American society, any type of move in that direction is a huge victory. Now I am not saying make it a totally un-Islamic society, Islam is ingrained in all of us down to our core. However you can still have Islamic values and have an open tolerant society that allows things such as economic freedom. However none of that exists there now and all you have are dictators or President's for life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 Originally posted by DjTj Al Gore hadn't invented the internet yet In any case, DU tends to argue with itself on issues like this: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1271439 There's always people that are rabidly anti-Bush and always people who call them out for it ... Thank you. I searched all day for a thread there on this but couldn't find it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 Originally posted by du7st If you are going to tell me how I think before I even post, I might as well live up to your expectations. Read half the posts on this thread - they are not meant to get everyone around to celebrate. It's petty "I told you so" garbage. I am just giving you what you want. You proved how you think via past posts. Now, yes or no, is this a success and a strong move in the right direction? Who ever said mission accomplished here? You are yet another case of wishing for failure in order to get your party into power they lost. So, if you want to take it as "I told you so" We did. Congrats on your attempt to post without acknowledging the facts that all can see in regards to the transformation of the middle east. It's begun and of course will proceed slowly, but I can't wait to watch you eat crow some day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 Originally posted by DarkLadyRaven They seem to want the middle east and just seemed to stop there. I hear its something about having no infidels in the MIDDLE EAST and not really too much on conquering the world Tell that to the co-founder of CAIR (Omar Ahmad), who said the following: Those who stay in America should be open to society without melting, keeping Mosques open so anyone can come and learn about Islam. If you choose to live here, you have a responsibility to deliver the message of Islam ... Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faiths, but to become dominant. The Koran, the Muslim book of scripture, should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth. How about Ibrahim Hooper, one of their spokesmen... ? I wouldn't want to create the impression that I wouldn't like the government of the United States to be Islamic sometime in the future...But I'm not going to do anything violent to promote that. I'm going to do it through education. Yeah... sounds to me like their satisfied keeping that vileness in the ME. Lebanon, in particular, was a hotspot long before Great Britain or France got involved and Israel wasn't even a gleam in the UN's eye. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
du7st Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 Originally posted by skin-n-vegas You proved how you think via past posts. Now, yes or no, is this a success and a strong move in the right direction? Who ever said mission accomplished here? You are yet another case of wishing for failure in order to get your party into power they lost. So, if you want to take it as "I told you so" We did. Congrats on your attempt to post without acknowledging the facts that all can see in regards to the transformation of the middle east. It's begun and of course will proceed slowly, but I can't wait to watch you eat crow some day. Who is my party? Answer me that and I will grant you authority to claim how I feel on any subject based on past posts. Ohh you thought Democrat but now you aren't sure? Maybe you should back up and realize that opinions come in more than two varieties. Eat your own crow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 Originally posted by ntotoro Tell that to the co-founder of CAIR (Omar Ahmad), who said the following: How about Ibrahim Hooper, one of their spokesmen... ? Gee, they sound just like Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell to me. Anyhow, this could be big. Or not. COntrary to what Skin-in-Vegas thinks, adopting a wait and see attitude is not failing to pay proper respect to the current administration. It is waiting and seeing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 Originally posted by Predicto Gee, they sound just like Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell to me. When was the last time either of them strapped on a bomb, beheaded a hostage or ran an airplane into a building? You may disagree with their words or opinions, and I don't frequently agree with either of those guys, but the bottom line is I'm not exactly afraid of Conservative Christians doing any of those things I mention. Islamists and Arabists have the franchise on those kinds of terror acts. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 Gotta love the loons at DU. This guy is a gem... In response to this post saying the Syrians were likely to blame for the assasination... Syrian intelligenceEveryone I've spoken to from Lebanon has told me it was obviously the Syrians. A guy who calls himself "just me" responds... Where's the evidence?Stop the assumptions, accusations, assertions without any demonstrable evidence. After all, if you respect the "rule of law", you too would demand a full investigation and sufficient evidence to make such a conviction. Later he writes.... Shhhhh,...we're not supposed to talk about permanent US military presence.We're not supposed to talk about the PNAC plan for permanent US military presence in several M.E. nations. Shhhhh. We're supposed to be redirected to Syrian military presence in Lebanon which originally stopped/halted/desisted a horrific civil war and their withdrawal may open the box to yet another bloody civil conflict IF driven to withdraw on a dime with the push with aggression by a couple of other power-mongering nations. Shhhhhh. We're not supposed to examine who actually murdered the former Prime Minister or who most benefits from his death or whether the division from his murder is driven by a hidden agenda. Shhhhh. You're suppose to just say "I must confess,...Bush was right",...PNAC is good,...the neoCONs are just damned lucky,...damned lucky!!!! Evidently the need for actual evidence only applies when not blaming Bush for a global conspiricy theory. Terrorist sponsoring nations should be given the benefit of the doubt. The world is full of morons. :doh: BTW. WTF is a PNAC? (EDIT: Nevermind. I forgot about them.) http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm These evil folks clearly have a pact with satan. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 Originally posted by ntotoro When was the last time either of them strapped on a bomb, beheaded a hostage or ran an airplane into a building? You may disagree with their words or opinions, and I don't frequently agree with either of those guys, but the bottom line is I'm not exactly afraid of Conservative Christians doing any of those things I mention. Islamists and Arabists have the franchise on those kinds of terror acts. Nick Ummm... the quote you used was not about strapping on bombs. I quote you again: "Those who stay in America should be open to society without melting, keeping Mosques open so anyone can come and learn about Islam. If you choose to live here, you have a responsibility to deliver the message of Islam ... Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faiths, but to become dominant. The Koran, the Muslim book of scripture, should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth.... I wouldn't want to create the impression that I wouldn't like the government of the United States to be Islamic sometime in the future...But I'm not going to do anything violent to promote that. I'm going to do it through education." That sounds exactly like Robertson and Falwell. You just change the word "Koran" to "Bible" and the word "Islamic" to "Fundamentalist Christian." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 Originally posted by Predicto That sounds exactly like Robertson and Falwell. You just change the word "Koran" to "Bible" and the word "Islamic" to "Fundamentalist Christian." Fine and dandy, but Fallwell won't have anyone run planes into buildings or behead hostages to try to accomplish that goal. They'll have a few nasty soundbytes, people will criticized that and that's all we'll hear from them. Islamists will and have taken lives and will continue to do so. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 Originally posted by ntotoro Fine and dandy, but Fallwell won't have anyone run planes into buildings or behead hostages to try to accomplish that goal. They'll have a few nasty soundbytes, people will criticized that and that's all we'll hear from them. Islamists will and have taken lives and will continue to do so. Nick Are all Muslims secretly Islamist terrorists? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 Originally posted by Predicto Are all Muslims secretly Islamist terrorists? No, but therein lies the problem. Those who are sleepers want us to think everything is fine & dandy and they want peace. Regardless, I use terms like "Islamists" and Wahhabists," not Muslims. Another problem is, in 2005, it's often impossible to tell one from the other until it's too late. I am proud of the fact that I am Lebanese. I am not Arab, I am Lebanese. I am Eastern Orthodox. These Islamists and pro-Syrian dogs made it impossible for my family to stay in Lebanon, so they came here for opportunity. Now, those people are trying to come here to our adopted home. They took you by the sword in Lebanon. Here, they try to take you with misinformation. They make people think they have noble intentions, meanwhile look what happens. My family has seen enough of this to learn to trust no one. Go to the ADC Symposium in the Spring. I've been to three. See how they speak of peace and love, then witness how they keep all the Muslim exhibits together and put St Jude's around the corner away from the high-traffic areas. See how they put booths with local Maronite or Orthodox Churches away from everyone else. See how they try to call us Arab, even though our names are Nicholas, Tony, John and Sam. They tried to take our names and ethnic heritage while in the ME. They want to do the same thing here and won't be happy until the entire Western world is an Islamic State. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 This is all Clinton's fault! j/k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosperity Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 Originally posted by ntotoro I am proud of the fact that I am Lebanese. I am not Arab, I am Lebanese. I am Eastern Orthodox. These Islamists and pro-Syrian dogs made it impossible for my family to stay in Lebanon, so they came here for opportunity. Now, those people are trying to come here to our adopted home. They took you by the sword in Lebanon. Here, they try to take you with misinformation. They make people think they have noble intentions, meanwhile look what happens. My family has seen enough of this to learn to trust no one. Here is another problem, nationalism. Is there a logical reason that you are proud of being Lebanese and Eastern Orthodox other than the fact that you are Lebanese and Eastern Orthodox? No. Yet yo do feel that you have to be proud of it for some reason. Overall this tribal nationalist sentiment is harmful to humanity. Of course Islamists are even more tribal in their nature when compared to the worst that Arabo Islamic culture has to offer, but that does not dismiss the other side of the coin's problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 Originally posted by Predicto Are all Muslims secretly Islamist terrorists? No we really aren't. However you try and avoid looking like a lap dog of the west, while basically living a Western lifestyle. See the Saudi princes. See people like myself who go out every weekend and enjoy what America has to offer, yet is in the Mosque every Friday for prayers. Its interesting the lifestyle some of us lead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 Originally posted by Liberty Here is another problem, nationalism. Is there a logical reason that you are proud of being Lebanese and Eastern Orthodox other than the fact that you are Lebanese and Eastern Orthodox? No. Yet yo do feel that you have to be proud of it for some reason. Why shouldn't I be? I am proud of what I am because that's what I am. That's the food we eat, it's the dancing we do and it's the stories and music I have had growing up. When Arab countries describe Lebanon's issues as Arab issues rather than Lebanese issues, it's time to straighten out things a little bit and correct that mentality. I say the things I say because people assume that because I am ethnically Lebanese, that means I am Arab, which means I am Muslim. You have no idea how many people assume that train of thought. I am not Arab, I am Lebanese. Semitic, yes, but not Arab. There's a big difference in Nationalism, which borders on Facism, and being proud of what you are versus what people think you are. You're smart enough to at least know that, so I'm not sure where you're going with this. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosperity Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 Originally posted by ntotoro Why shouldn't I be? I am proud of what I am because that's what I am. That's the food we eat, it's the dancing we do and it's the stories and music I have had growing up. When Arab countries describe Lebanon's issues as Arab issues rather than Lebanese issues, it's time to straighten out things a little bit and correct that mentality. I say the things I say because people assume that because I am ethnically Lebanese, that means I am Arab, which means I am Muslim. You have no idea how many people assume that train of thought. I am not Arab, I am Lebanese. Semitic, yes, but not Arab. There's a big difference in Nationalism, which borders on Facism, and being proud of what you are versus what people think you are. You're smart enough to at least know that, so I'm not sure where you're going with this. Nick Oh I do have an idea of that. As an Iranian I am presumably a musim AND an Arab to most people. Yes that is annoying and I can empathize with that. I was not saying you should not be proud of yourself, just to know that you would probably be proud of yourself if you were an Arab by birth. I am not trying to attack you, I am just making an observation that many times when people say they are proud of x, it is because they were born x and if they were born y they would be proud of y. I too am a little proud of my heritage, but not nearly as much as I was even a year ago. I realized that I am independant of my ethnicity, that it has (or atleast shouldn't) have a bearing on what I do or feel etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 Ok... gotcha'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted March 2, 2005 Share Posted March 2, 2005 double post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted March 2, 2005 Share Posted March 2, 2005 Bush had a lot to do with this, no point in denying it. Peace is spreading in the middle east, I'm game with that. It's not like we had to send troops into Lebanon to do this, so plus points to Bush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted March 2, 2005 Share Posted March 2, 2005 Lebanese Government Resigns! So, how much will they screw up our cap, next year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted March 2, 2005 Share Posted March 2, 2005 Interesting that until a couple of posts ago, no one pondered the "Why?" in all of this. The government didn't just wake up and decide to resign. Wonder what got them going in that direction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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