Welcome to the Commanders Jer'Zhan Newton DT Illinois

[redskinss]

12 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

we won't be competitive either of those years,

 

You don't know that, it's reasonable to assume we won't be a top team next year but there's a possibility we could have a Texans like turnaround and then the following year who the hell knows.

 

You're debating for a full tear down and rebuild, in that scenario we'd have had no reason to bring in wagner or any of the other vets who are in or around allens age.

 

This team is trying to be as competitive as it can be while it retools, in quinns words a recalibration and not a rebuild and we need guys like allen to do that.

 

 

 

[The Consigliere]

6 hours ago, Command The 414 said:

Feeling the same here, definitely not a need imho when DL was in all honestly this teams strength and to be honest I know he was probably to good to pass up but at this time this team isn’t good enough to be drafting from a position of that, we needed to address the OL with more then a project in Coleman from TCU after all we got this new shiny toy we took 2nd over all and we need to protect him at all/any cost… the last I saw Newton no matter how great he becomes won’t be available for that ….
 

Drafting Newton to me is like going to Home Depot needing Sheetrock and spackle along with Paint cause you added a extra bedroom to your basement and only had enough funds to account for that but along the way you saw this beautiful light fixture and knew it would go great in your dining room area so you bought it but buying it you weren’t able to get the spackle you needed to finish the drywall

But you forgot to mention that your light fixtures are all about to go out/break in the next 12-18 months and you need to think long term. Allen's deal expires after December '25, and is a tradable asset, Paynes in December '26. Neither is young, either. Both are well into their second contracts as vets as well, not young, and about to exit their primes within a season or two. If you need everything, and the need at DT, which is amongst the hardest and most valuable to fill in terms of draft capital and FA cost (it sits right along Edge, CB, OT, QB and WR). Basically we got a top 15 to 20 player, for 2nd round draft capital. This isn't the Raiders drafting Bowers a year after they drafted Mayer. This is us finding a long term replacement for Allen or Payne in the discount bin, knowing it should be on the show room floor. 

 

It's frustrating it wasn't a shiny top 20 rated OT, I agree, but they weren't there and the fact that no OT's were selected between the late first and the late second illustrates that. The first run on OT's went from 5th to 26th (with one more taken after Dallas moved down to 29), the next from 55 to 79, and we pulled one right out of that tier with similar rankings. So to my mind anyway, we basically owned the board, holding off on OT, convinced they would fall, and were proven right, while selecting the best player on our board. That's exactly how I want drafts run. We need everything, yes DT was my exception too, but its not hard seeing the reasoning when you consult spotrac. 

[The Consigliere]

12 minutes ago, redskinss said:

 

You don't know that, it's reasonable to assume we won't be a top team next year but there's a possibility we could have a Texans like turnaround and then the following year who the hell knows.

 

You're debating for a full tear down and rebuild, in that scenario we'd have had no reason to bring in wagner or any of the other vets who are in or around allens age.

 

This team is trying to be as competitive as it can be while it retools, in quinns words a recalibration and not a rebuild and we need guys like allen to do that.

 

 

 

No, I don't, but I think anyone making long term bets would bet that a team picking 2nd overall after having finished 31st for the 2nd time in 5 years would predict that the ceiling of the team is sub .500 in the short term, especially when its a tear down with a new GM, new HC, and new coach. There are exceptions, but its rare and I find it amusing that everyone that quibbles w/my argument uses the Texans because lets be straight, they can't think of any other (the Niners themselves are actually a good one). They can say what they want for pub, they aren't gonna tell the press that we suck and will be horrible, and I expect Quinn to max whats there, he's solid to good coach (and a great DC), but I don't view what they did in the offseasons as a retooling or recalibration or whatever. I don't buy that at all. I think its pretty clear they were bringing in spackle via FA because we had a ton of cap space unlike the saints, and had the ability to spackle in contracts to temporarily place competent high floor talent in big gaping holes so the defense to some extent was sustainable, so the offense had some base level talent behind Robinson etc.....I think it was spackling, not long term anything, not short term, most of the deals were 2-3, avoiding clogging our cap with onerous long term solutions, or quick fixes, it looks like what I think they're actually doing: w/holes to fill in literally every single position group, and not enough FA cap money or draft capital to fix it, they're plugging as many holes short term as they can while slowly building out the long term roster with young draft picks (and possible trades). 

 

Now that's my theory. Maybe I'm wrong. In the real world, Vegas views us as 26th-28th best or thereabouts, and that's more or less what I think too, although I'm on the under in terms of win total (I see 5 or 6, Vegas and the public/maybe sharps, seems to think 6-7 wins....We'll see, but I will quite firmly argue that part of the reason this pick makes sense, and trading Allen could make sense is the nature of the contracts those DT's have, and what this team will be doing the next season or two, which is a whole lot more losing. How much, is open to question. I would argue we are likley to max out, in a best case scenario, of around 15 wins the next two years, but more likely 12-13. Knowing that, I'd trade Allen if I could get a day 2 pick now, or trade him after this season if I could get a 3rd to a 4th (probably not but one can dream). Will they? I highly doubt it. certainly not this season (barring a player demand).  

[redskinss]

Im not laughing at the content of your post rather the amount of times you spackled the word spackle Into it.

 

 

 

Edited May 1 by redskinss

[88Comrade2000]

5 hours ago, The Consigliere said:

But you forgot to mention that your light fixtures are all about to go out/break in the next 12-18 months and you need to think long term. Allen's deal expires after December '25, and is a tradable asset, Paynes in December '26. Neither is young, either. Both are well into their second contracts as vets as well, not young, and about to exit their primes within a season or two. If you need everything, and the need at DT, which is amongst the hardest and most valuable to fill in terms of draft capital and FA cost (it sits right along Edge, CB, OT, QB and WR). Basically we got a top 15 to 20 player, for 2nd round draft capital. This isn't the Raiders drafting Bowers a year after they drafted Mayer. This is us finding a long term replacement for Allen or Payne in the discount bin, knowing it should be on the show room floor. 

 

It's frustrating it wasn't a shiny top 20 rated OT, I agree, but they weren't there and the fact that no OT's were selected between the late first and the late second illustrates that. The first run on OT's went from 5th to 26th (with one more taken after Dallas moved down to 29), the next from 55 to 79, and we pulled one right out of that tier with similar rankings. So to my mind anyway, we basically owned the board, holding off on OT, convinced they would fall, and were proven right, while selecting the best player on our board. That's exactly how I want drafts run. We need everything, yes DT was my exception too, but its not hard seeing the reasoning when you consult spotrac. 

If both Allen and Payne have good years and Newton plays well; I can see us trading Allen or Payne.  It will be cheaper and maybe we can get at least a 2nd rounder, maybe even first.

[757SeanTaylor21]

Payne is 26 this year. That is super young for a dt in his second year on 2nd contract. By the time year 4 comes of newton's rookie contract payne will just be nearing 30. No reason to move on from home...

 

Unless you just want another

hole to spackle. And get mad again if we draft a 1st round dt in a later round because we needed to spackle the og hole.

 

 

[Warhead36]

As long as we have a QB on a rookie deal there is no reason to trade anyone good unless we just get blown away by an offer(like 2 #1s for Allen or something, but that ain't happening).

[Koolblue13]

22 minutes ago, 757SeanTaylor21 said:

Payne is 26 this year. That is super young for a dt in his second year on 2nd contract. By the time year 4 comes of newton's rookie contract payne will just be nearing 30. No reason to move on from home...

 

Unless you just want another

hole to spackle. And get mad again if we draft a 1st round dt in a later round because we needed to spackle the og hole.

 

 

This fanbase is allergic to stacking talent.

[redskinss]

2 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

This fanbase is allergic to stacking talent.

 

This is so true, every single time we've had a strong unit in the last twenty years like clockwork a bunch of posters start talking about trading our starters.

Bring in Dotson, ooop what can we get for mclaurin, bring in young, the writing is on the wall sweat is a goner etc etc.

It becomes particularly annoying when you haven't been up against the cap in 15 years because you're already so talent depleted. 

 

[Koolblue13]

2 minutes ago, redskinss said:

 

This is so true, every single time we've had a strong unit in the last twenty years like clockwork a bunch of posters start talking about trading our starters.

Bring in Dotson, ooop what can we get for mclaurin, bring in young, the writing is on the wall sweat is a goner etc etc.

It becomes particularly annoying when you haven't been up against the cap in 15 years because you're already so talent depleted. 

 

By the second half of the year, we could have the most disruptive IDL rotation around, with a bunch of quality edge guys and players like Chinn and Davis. 

 

It's awesome and how good teams win. Stack talent.

 

I hope Peters learned by watching SF destroy their DL trading Buckner, only to draft a bust at 7 and then needing to pay a FA $40 mil per.

[redskinss]

1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

By the second half of the year, we could have the most disruptive IDL rotation around, with a bunch of quality edge guys and players like Chinn and Davis. 

 

It's awesome and how good teams win. Stack talent.

 

I hope Peters learned by watching SF destroy their DL trading Buckner, only to draft a bust at 7 and then needing to pay a FA $40 mil per.

 

There's a time and a place, trading young was absolutely the right thing to do and trading sweat with a new regime coming in and so much money committed to the defensive line already was probably the right thing to do but trading allen or Payne this year would be unwise.

[Warhead36]

Its ironic because the best teams in our franchise's history were stacked with talent at the lines and WR. I wonder if people advocated trading Ricky Sanders because "were stacked at WR." 

[DWinzit]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

This fanbase is allergic to stacking talent.

Not allergic.

The dark years of Snyder were void of good talent across the lineup. Instead we have grown accustomed to a multitude of roster holes filled almost comically by below average players.

Under these circumstances our fan base has been given, stacking a position felt like a waste when there were so many holes.

52 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Its ironic because the best teams in our franchise's history were stacked with talent at the lines and WR. I wonder if people advocated trading Ricky Sanders because "were stacked at WR." 

For sure! During the Gibbs1 era even our PS was more stacked with "kind of injured players" than some teams regular roster. It was great to be in that spot and hope we can get back there under this new regime! 

Edited May 2 by DWinzit

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

This fanbase is allergic to stacking talent.

 

Let alone at the D line.  Eagles have dominated this division as for consistency in the last two decades plus.  A hallmark of it has been stacking talent on the D line.  Injuries happens.  But more on point players leave and players tend to play better when rotated.

[Warhead36]

The Eagles and Cowboys both lost their starting C and the Giants suck up front. We can dominate the division by being strong up the middle.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[The Consigliere]

13 hours ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

If both Allen and Payne have good years and Newton plays well; I can see us trading Allen or Payne.  It will be cheaper and maybe we can get at least a 2nd rounder, maybe even first.

I don't see that. I reserve the right to be wrong, there's usually someone stupid. One of the weird things I heard from analytics people over the weekend was that the dumber than hell factor has really gone down in recent years, seems like the league is getting rid of most stupid. Only exceptions seemed to be Carolina, which they feel is at least partly ownership based, and Atlanta, which at this point seems to feature just chronically moronic decision making. All that being said, Allen has 2 years left on his deal and is 29, Payne turns 27 this month and has 3 years left on his. I don't see anyway we get a 1st or 2nd for Payne, 3rd maybe, but the contract control and age just doesn't make sense, Payne has more years of cost control and a 3 year runway before he turns 30, so maybe more value though not the same caliber player in his prime....but in both cases, I don't know? Allen I'd think would fetch an early day 3 or late day 2, I think you might be able to get into the 40s to 60's for Payne because of the nature of the contract and his age, but I'm not sold. You'd have to have a huge DT need, and the cap room and I'm skeptical many teams that could really use Payne (or Allen) would pay for them both contract money and pick capital at that scale. Otoh, a Chase Young and a Sweat rental fetched us much better value than I was expecting so who knows? Part of it I imagine was Chicago knew the '24 edge class was ---- and was willing to do it to solve the issue so they could focus on offense?

Edited May 2 by The Consigliere

[The Consigliere]

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

This fanbase is allergic to stacking talent.

Whoops....

Edited May 2 by The Consigliere
quoted wrong post

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, The Consigliere said:

Payne turns 27 in a few weeks. He's not 26 for the purposes we care about, the actual season. Not saying that is the end of the world, it isn't, but lets make sure we get bdays right, I kept getting Daniels wrong as an example (kept forgetting he doesn't turn 24 until December). 

You quoted the wrong poster, but thanks for not hitting me with a wall of text.

[Berggy9598]

Just now, The Consigliere said:

Payne turns 27 in a few weeks. He's not 26 for the purposes we care about, the actual season. Not saying that is the end of the world, it isn't, but lets make sure we get bdays right, I kept getting Daniels wrong as an example (kept forgetting he doesn't turn 24 until December). 

What about his athletic ability will start immediately eroding when he wakes up on his 27th birthday? 

[The Consigliere]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

Its ironic because the best teams in our franchise's history were stacked with talent at the lines and WR. I wonder if people advocated trading Ricky Sanders because "were stacked at WR." 

No Free Agency back then. It was a different league, you didn't have to constantly shuffle and replace talent at positions in the same way because you had total control of players within your roster and position groups. You could afford to be deep anywhere you wished, the only issue would be total roster spot limits. It's a different world from back then, you have to constantly keep an eye on position groups, contracts, value in FA and Draft Capital and Franchising Cost etc. 

[FootballZombie]

24 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

Video games have ruined me. This was all I could think about reading that post:

 

[The Consigliere]

27 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

That is INSANE. 😅. My God was he good. So exciting. It's rare you get a guy that seems this much of a steal that you were never even remotely thinking about to begin with. Was anyone? I know I wasn't. DT was the only position I totally ignored lol, even knowing the starters ages. So so so glad we got him assuming he doesn't have recurring issues (apparently an issue with Jones fractures). 

7 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

You quoted the wrong poster, but thanks for not hitting me with a wall of text.

yeah, my apologies. 

2 hours ago, 757SeanTaylor21 said:

Payne is 26 this year. That is super young for a dt in his second year on 2nd contract. By the time year 4 comes of newton's rookie contract payne will just be nearing 30. No reason to move on from home...

 

Unless you just want another

hole to spackle. And get mad again if we draft a 1st round dt in a later round because we needed to spackle the og hole.

 

 

Payne turns 27 in a few weeks. He's not 26 for the purposes we care about, the actual season. Not saying that is the end of the world, it isn't, but lets make sure we get bdays right, I kept getting Daniels wrong as an example (kept forgetting he doesn't turn 24 until December). 

[757SeanTaylor21]

9 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

Payne turns 27 in a few weeks. He's not 26 for the purposes we care about, the actual season. Not saying that is the end of the world, it isn't, but lets make sure we get bdays right, I kept getting Daniels wrong as an example (kept forgetting he doesn't turn 24 until December). 

Ok...so what about him turning 27 is drastically different? Is his ability going to nose dive into tjr abyss cause hes 1 year older then i mentioned? He will be what...30? 29? When his contract is up...why would we trade him when by the time his contract is up Newton is just finishing his rookie contract...makes 0 sense.

[sinews]

The more I learn about this guy, the more I like. Adam Peters definitely has a type and I think what makes him such a good talent evaluator (part of it at least) is that he's perceptive enough to scout intangibles and which of those qualities translates to good football players. Not saying he's perfect–it's one of the most difficult things to do–but I think he's better than most at it.

 

You could sum it up with a Gibbs-ism: "he's super smart." Anyway, just a cool little video here, had no idea he was a dad.