Welcome New Owner Josh Harris

[Stihl89]

Some on topic. Some off topic

 

Going to be a LONG few years for the 4 DC sports coming up. All 4 looking at lengthy rebuilds at the same time. Don’t think that’s ever happened to a city before. Usually at least one of them is good at a time. 

Nats are already deep into thankfully but they started from absolute rock bottom with their terrible farm system. Looks to be a few years away from a true contention. 

Caps look old and Slow AF. They won’t rebuild unless they are forced to. They might be this year. They look terrible. They’ll will want to placate until ovie and it makes sense. 

 

Wiz finally accepted the reality. They can’t even really start their rebuild due to the mismanagement of the Ernie + Tommy era. They need to collect mediocre talent to show case them before they can even get some draft picks 

 

Finally onto the skins and it’s likely to be the most painful. The roster is very capped and they don’t have QB. They can cut some major time off their rebuild if they lose out this year to draft top 3. The roster will need deconstructed which will take multiple years due to cap ramifications. Not a single player outside of chase should stay. The Dline is overrated and has too many resources devoted to it. They are starting at a worse than expansion level team. 

Can’t remember a time where a city is rebuilding in all 4 sports at the same time.

[88Comrade2000]

Rebranding isn’t going to jack, if the team is still losing.  Rebranding likely will

happen but that’s down the list and in the future.

 

First, you set up a top organization on the personnel side and the business side. Getting a good Gm and head coach is essential.

 

Then the stadium and game experience . Short term at Fed Ex and long term in a new stadium.

 

Then everything else can be addressed.

 

 

If we don’t get a top notch organization, then nothing but relocation will be in future.

[Warhead36]

13 minutes ago, Stihl89 said:

Some on topic. Some off topic

 

Going to be a LONG few years for the 4 DC sports coming up. All 4 looking at lengthy rebuilds at the same time. Don’t think that’s ever happened to a city before. Usually at least one of them is good at a time. 

Nats are already deep into thankfully but they started from absolute rock bottom with their terrible farm system. Looks to be a few years away from a true contention. 

Caps look old and Slow AF. They won’t rebuild unless they are forced to. They might be this year. They look terrible. They’ll will want to placate until ovie and it makes sense. 

 

Wiz finally accepted the reality. They can’t even really start their rebuild due to the mismanagement of the Ernie + Tommy era. They need to collect mediocre talent to show case them before they can even get some draft picks 

 

Finally onto the skins and it’s likely to be the most painful. The roster is very capped and they don’t have QB. They can cut some major time off their rebuild if they lose out this year to draft top 3. The roster will need deconstructed which will take multiple years due to cap ramifications. Not a single player outside of chase should stay. The Dline is overrated and has too many resources devoted to it. They are starting at a worse than expansion level team. 

Can’t remember a time where a city is rebuilding in all 4 sports at the same time.

You're never that far off in the NFL. The Lions were among the league worst and within a couple years are contenders. Just gotta get the HC and QB right, which is obviously easier said than done. And I could see the Nats being a fringe playoff contender in 2024.

[Skinsinparadise]

33 minutes ago, woodpecker said:

I would be with you 99% of the time on something like this. Like who cares about the name right? But this is different. This is about scrubbing the last vestiges of the scent of Snyder out of our hair. It’s important to get every bit of it to give us the best chance becoming a respected franchise again. So, even the little things that don’t matter on the field should be addressed. If you are going to prioritize the stadium experience for example then why not this? Having a name to be proud of or not is part of the “experience“. Having people want to buy, and wear, your jerseys and other merchandise is important. These are the things I want the ownership group most focused on. “Winning“ will take care of itself when you simply hire a good GM, and get out of his way.

 

I don't see it as really an agree or disagree thing, its about what moves you as a fan.  Every answer is right.  For me, I can care less how I like or not like a uniform, and I don't care what they are called.  Everything being equal there was one name I preferred.  But for me even if they got that name it wouldn't juice me.  What juices me is going to games and seeing wins, seeing a playoff win.  Getting the stench off of this franchise as to it being a loser.

 

I'd love to think winning just takes care of itself organically when you hire a good GM.  A good GM doesn't make it inevitable.  Look at Chris Ballard, many thought he was the hottest stud talent evaluator at the time.  And he's made some good calls, indeed.  But you also need to luck out on the QB among other things and he's not had a good run on that front.  A good GM hire puts you on the right path, but I disagree that winning takes care of itself after that.  You still need to catch some breaks.   But doing it the Dan Snyder way you got zero chance.  doing it the right way gives you a viable chance.

 

Regardless, its clearly not about what I think.  Keim is rarely wrong when he repeats what he's hearing and he's talked about this a lot.  The bad news for those jazzed about rebranding is its clear this regime doesn't think its even close to top 3 among their priorities.  Ditto they don't think its a top 3 mover with their fan base.  I presume they focused group this or polled it but am not sure.  But I know enough about these guys that they don't do things by the seat of their pants so if they thought this was the #1 thing most fans want, they'd be all over it.

 

But the good news from what I gathered is its on the table.  Even though its not a hot burner issue for them.  From what I understand its on their next tier of things on their to do list.  And if I had to guess, I think they do it.

Edited October 26, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Stihl89]

3 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

You're never that far off in the NFL. The Lions were among the league worst and within a couple years are contenders. Just gotta get the HC and QB right, which is obviously easier said than done. And I could see the Nats being a fringe playoff contender in 2024.

I mean they had 5 or less wins for 4 years. So they were still rebuilding the talent even with Patricia. 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, DWinzit said:

I am done sticking up for Ron as well, I am done with him.

 

I do not know what move(s) are doable at this point but there is a point when you must stop the bleeding. 

 

Just look at this site. some of the most dedicated fans and so many are beyond sick of the losing culture. Then get excited of the Dan departure yet as Allen stated, just more of the same.

 

Adding some things to the fan experience have gone a long way but only amount to a finger in on the holes in the dyke. 

 

A lot of talk about this subject by guys who cover the team including Neil Greenberg who is probably Ron's loudest critic and thinks Ron's a hot mess as for what he's done to the roster.  The issue is the pressure would be for Bieineimy to be the guy.  And if there is some uptick in their record, the pressure would be likewise for him to be the HC here next year.  Maybe Del Rio ditto but Bieniemy would likely get more heed largely because we've already seen a sample size of Del Rio as a HC in this league.

 

If you hire someone else, it would have to be somewhat outside of the current NFL coaching regime.  And what are the odds that someone like that will come here and turn this team around midstream?  And if they don't succeed (which is likely), then Harris has put his own stamp on the current clown show so now he gets his first dose of early baggage.

 

Personally I don't want anyone from Ron's regime to be the next HC.  I can't even right now stand the narrative of an off season of why not Del Rio or Bieiniemy.  I want that off the table.  To have that off the table, I don't want to give either a trial run.   I want a GM in charge and let them make the call.

 

And I don't want Harris to taint himself some which I think at least 50-50 he would  considering none of the assistant coaches here are distinguishing themsleves and an outside hire could end up looking even more clownish than what we got.

 

Greenberg, Finlay among others agree let this run out.   Right now, this is Dan's regime, let them finish this season and then move on.  I don't want Harris to put his own touch on a losing season where he gets some of that stench too possibly or we have some dialogue at the beginning of the off season about having one of our assistant head coaches take over.  Heck lol, i recall Gibbshog -- I think am botching his username?, bolting as a fan in part because they didn't let Callahan keep the HC job after his interim run.   

 

I want every vestage of that Ron regime gone and a fresh start.  

 

 

Edited October 26, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[woodpecker]

18 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I don't see it as really an agree or disagree thing, its about what moves you as a fan.  Every answer is right.  For me, I can care less how I like or not like a uniform, and I don't care what they are called.  Everything being equal there was one name I preferred.  But for me even if they got that name it wouldn't juice me.  What juices me is going to games and seeing wins, seeing a playoff win.  Getting the stench off of this franchise as to it being a loser.

 

I'd love to think winning just takes care of itself organically when you hire a good GM.  A good GM doesn't make it inevitable.  Look at Chris Ballard, many thought he was the hottest stud talent evaluator at the time.  And he's made some good calls, indeed.  But you also need to luck out on the QB among other things and he's not had a good run on that front.  A good GM hire puts you on the right path, but I disagree that winning takes care of itself after that.  You still need to catch some breaks.   But doing it the Dan Snyder way you got zero chance.  doing it the right way gives you a viable chance.

 

Regardless, its clearly not about what I think.  Keim is rarely wrong when he repeats what he's hearing and he's talked about this a lot.  The bad news for those jazzed about rebranding is its clear this regime doesn't think its even close to top 3 among their priorities.  Ditto they don't think its a top 3 mover with their fan base.  I presume they focused group this or polled it but am not sure.  But I know enough about these guys that they don't do things by the seat of their pants so if they thought this was the #1 thing most fans want, they'd be all over it.

 

But the good news from what I gathered is its on the table.  Even though its not a hot burner issue for them.  From what I understand its on their next tier of things on their to do list.  And if I had to guess, I think they do it.

Thanks for the reply. I would argue that Ballard was doing a great job as GM, until Irsay started butting in. Yes, we all know winning is priority one, there is zero disagreement on that point. There is no magic wand for that though, I agree with you on that point. All you can do is structure the organization the correct way, and hope for the best. That to me means hiring a GM and getting out of the way. That should be taken care of by February, if not sooner. Then what? Do you want the owners micromanaging everything the new GM does, or do you want them working on all the little stuff that needs to be fixed after the Snyder mess? We would probably prioritize the list of little stuff differently, but I know that’s what I would want them to be working on.

[Skinsinparadise]

22 minutes ago, woodpecker said:

Thanks for the reply. I would argue that Ballard was doing a great job as GM, until Irsay started butting in. Yes, we all know winning is priority one, there is zero disagreement on that point. There is no magic wand for that though, I agree with you on that point. All you can do is structure the organization the correct way, and hope for the best. That to me means hiring a GM and getting out of the way. That should be taken care of by February, if not sooner. Then what? Do you want the owners micromanaging everything the new GM does, or do you want them working on all the little stuff that needs to be fixed after the Snyder mess? We would probably prioritize the list of little stuff differently, but I know that’s what I would want them to be working on.

 

Irsay apparently made Ballard trade Wentz and I get the impression that he's now frustrated by the team's lack of progress and interjects but based on what I heard previous to that Irsay been hands off with Ballard.  The Colts beat guys talked about them some when they came on the air to talk about the Wentz situation last year.

 

For me personally, spending a lot of time here, plenty on twitter, plenty listening to talk radio.  And spending some time trying to keep my kids fans, watching some of my friends-relatives try to do the same with their kids and reading what some fans have said here about the same subject.....

 

I'd say figuring how to win and fast is by a mile the #1 thing.  And fast won't be easy.  Another regime coming here and suggesting give us 5 years and we will get this cooking -- i don't think will go over well with everyone.  I don't think especially some of the younger fans who are now teens have any more patience for a long rebuild.  Too many of their peers who root for other teams have seen success.  We got nothing.   

 

Going with my kids and seeing some of the cooler stadiums in the country and enjoying that experience -- and then conversely going to crappy Fedex feels night and day different which doubles down that this isn't a cool team to root for.  So changing that experience for now and getting a stadium that's special, I think could go a long way.

 

So I absolutely agree with them (according to Keim) with their top 3 priorities and nothing also comes close to those.  

 

As for rebranding, from what I gathered some care a lot, some a little, some nothing at all.  For me, besides not caring.  I associate the rebranding more to Ron Rivera than anyone else.  But I know some see that as all Dan and it bothers them.  And again no rights or wrong.  Every fan rocks to whatever moves them and whatever rocks them is correct.    I do care a little, it would be mildly interesting to me.  But when i talk football for example with my brother in law or whomever it's about football, not uniforms, etc, so its rarely on my mind.   But that's me.

 

For me personally, the idea that the ownership doesn't care a heck of a lot and doesn't see it as a code red issue to me is a good sign.  I don't mind some winning off the field but I want it to be secondary by a mile which apparently it is.  And again if some fans want a rebrand they should get it.  But even if I was in that group of fans, I find a good sign that this ownership doesn't find it to be a hot priortity on their to do list.  But I do think they will do it and probably as soon as next year.

Edited October 26, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[FootballZombie]

[DWinzit]

31 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

A lot of talk about this subject by guys who cover the team including Neil Greenberg who is probably Ron's loudest critic and thinks Ron's a hot mess as for what he's done to the roster.  The issue is the pressure would be for Bieineimy to be the guy.  And if there is some uptick in their record, the pressure would be likewise for him to be the HC here next year.  Maybe Del Rio ditto but Bieniemy would likely get more heed largely because we've already seen a sample size of Del Rio as a HC in this league.

 

If you hire someone else, it would have to be somewhat outside of the current NFL coaching regime.  And what are the odds that someone like that will come here and turn this team around midstream?  And if they don't succeed (which is likely), then Harris has put his own stamp on the current clown show so now he gets his first dose of early baggage.

 

Personally I don't want anyone from Ron's regime to be the next HC.  I can't even right now stand the narrative of an off season of why not Del Rio or Bieiniemy.  I want that off the table.  To have that off the table, I don't want to give either a trial run.   I want a GM in charge and let them make the call.

 

And I don't want Harris to taint himself some which I think at least 50-50 he would  considering none of the assistant coaches here are distinguishing themsleves and an outside hire could end up looking even more clownish than what we got.

 

Greenberg, Finlay among others agree let this run out.   Right now, this is Dan's regime, let them finish this season and then move on.  I don't want Harris to put his own touch on a losing season where he gets some of that stench too possibly or we have some dialogue at the beginning of the off season about having one of our assistant head coaches take over.  Heck lol, i recall Gibbshog -- I think am botching his username?, bolting as a fan in part because they didn't let Callahan keep the HC job after his interim run.   

 

I want every vestiage of that Ron regime gone and a fresh start.  

 

 

I too am at the point of wanting all things Ron rinses out of the organization. I had a glimmer of hope until the embarrassments that have taken place more than once this year on the field.

It all reeks of Dan and I want all that cleaned out.

 

As I have stated a few times, while the new regime is best to leave things play out on one hand, it is difficult to watch team leaders, players and fans fall any further than they have. They know this is already a fragile environment that has lost a good percentage of its fan base and it is hard to get FA's to have interest in coming to Washington. 

 

Josh and company came into official play late so made the correct decision not to intervene in the teams operations midstream. Well, if they lose any more, they need to do something or risk future player and fan loss. Again, I do not have suggestions on what to do, but there is a need to do something to show at least future hope. I am of the opinion Rivera has no pans of changing things up regardless of his lame comments. 

[ixcuincle]

 watching the Michigan "scandal" closely and it seems harder and harder to justify Harbaugh coming back in 2024. He may just be fed up with the NCAA's crap (never trust the NCAA!) and bolt. Listen, I was wary of Harbaugh with repeated losses to OSU but he fixed that issue. He also was nearly fired during the COVID year (Michigan had it's worst season in a very long time and basically didn't play "The Game" against OSU) but to his credit has found staff and recruits that were able to contend for titles.

 

There's no way he quits today, or tomorrow. Who is he, Mel Tucker? If he leaves, he goes at the end of the season. And he should. The NCAA is done with him. Probably show cause him but he won't care.

 

I don't know if Harris should take a look because we all pretty much agree Rivera isn't coming back if they underachieve this year. Personally I would not want Harbaugh here in DC. I want fresh new minds.

[Redwards]

12 hours ago, Conn said:

And most importantly, we’ll be a normal organization where there is appropriately assigned accountability. If the initial hires are bad, it won’t be due to unavoidable systemic failure tied to the rotting head of the franchise like before. They’ll eventually be swept out and we’ll get another shot at hitting a home run like every other normal fanbase. That’s really the important part to me. The hope will be back even if we make the wrong hires, the wrong draft picks, the wrong decisions on game day. The entire mindset changes because we aren’t stuck in purgatory with Snyder.

This was extremely well-put.  

 

You are absolutely correct: one round of mistaken/failed hires does not lead to a spiral down the drain under this new ownership group.  We can truly rinse and then hire with confidence that the HOG will get things right.  They have the humility, class, experience and sincere desire/drive to return this team to a Super Bowl winner.  They've made it clear that the goal is to be a perennial true contender with smart, accountable leadership that is structured in such a way that eliminates ambiguity when blame needs to be assigned.  

[Stihl89]

I fully expect this team to suck in 24 and 25 at the least. We’re going to have to deconstruct the roster while trying to rebuild at the same time. We’re worse than an expansion team at this point 

[@DCGoldPants]

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen]

Never knew there was a position for Football Strategy. I guess Jason Wright better be polishing up his resume on LinkedIn.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Conn]

2 minutes ago, BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen said:

Never knew there was a position for Football Strategy. I guess Jason Wright better be polishing up his resume on LinkedIn.

Has nothing to do with Wright, who is on the business side. Fans fixation on him is so weird, no other fanbase cares about their business VP we were just scarred by Wright doing what he was paid to do taking bullets for Snyder. He was probably not good at his job like everyone under Snyder but he really doesn’t matter, he’ll likely be fired as well (though he might not be and people need to get over that, the NFL league office loves him). 
 

This is a football side move. 

[Skinsinparadise]

A hallmark of Josh Harris’s sports ownership has been his investment in sports science and analytics, using advanced treatments and data to try to give his teams advantages, no matter how small.

“Wherever we can create an edge — if we can make our players feel better, if we can accommodate their lives a little bit better, if we can set up for training better — we’re going to look at all that stuff,” he said in July. “... It takes time, and it takes investment.”

 

 

Harris wasted little time investing in the Commanders. Washington hired Eugene Shen as its senior vice president of football strategy to oversee all analytics and software development for football operations; he will start Nov. 6 and report to Coach Ron Rivera.

 

The hire, according to a person with direct knowledge of the matter, was a months-long process that began during training camp, shortly after Harris finalized his $6.05 billion purchase of the Commanders. The final decision, that person said, was discussed and reviewed across football operations, business operations and ownership, and all were aligned.

 

Shen’s work will span multiple departments, including coaching, personnel and football administration, to collaborate on all strategies for the football operation.

“Bringing Eugene’s level of expertise to lead our analytics and software development enables us to build on our data capabilities to help inform decision-making,” Coach Ron Rivera said in a written statement from the team. “Eugene brings a great deal of practical NFL experience, and we look forward to bringing him into our conversations about the vision of our team going forward.”

 

Currently a derivatives analyst for the alternative investment management firm Millennium, Shen has a deep background in both finance and football. He was previously the vice president of football analytics for the Jacksonville Jaguars (2021-22) and a director of analytics for the Miami Dolphins (2019-21) and Baltimore Ravens (2014-19).

 

Shen’s arrival expands an analytics staff in Washington that, a few years ago, consisted only of Doug Drewry, its football analytics coordinator. The team also hired football data scientist Preston Biro in June.

 

Drewry will remain on the headset during games, and he and Biro, along with director of football solutions Seenu Tulluri and football solutions developer Gayatri Nambiar, will report to Shen.

A Houston native, Shen received his bachelor’s degree in applied math/economics from Harvard, where he graduated in the same class (1993) as Commanders senior vice president of football administration Rob Rogers. He went on to earn an MBA from MIT’s Sloan School of Management in 1998.

 

Shen is also the co-founder and co-editor-in-chief of the Journal of Sports Analytics, and he presented papers at the Sloan Sports Analytics Conference in 2011 and 2012. Daryl Morey, the Philadelphia 76ers’ team president, founded the annual conference. Harris also owns the 76ers.

 

“It’s an exciting time to be joining this legendary franchise, and I look forward to working with Coach Rivera and the front office to help shape the vision of the franchise going forward,” Shen wrote in a statement. “I have immense respect for the hard work that coaches and talent evaluators put into roster construction, team building and game strategy, and I believe that an increase in resources will provide further tools to inform the decisions we make as a franchise going forward as part of the ongoing work to become the best in the NFL.”

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2023/10/26/commanders-analytics-eugene-shen/

[Conn]

Yeah I’m sure Rivera wrote that. lmao

 

Some people are not going to read and are going to see the fancy title he has “Senior VP of Football Strategy” and think that it’s GM-adjacent or something, but this won’t really have an effect this year. It definitely confirms that the GM Harris hires will be a forward-thinking type who wants to collaborate with a guy like Shen, though. 
 

Cool hire. First step of many to come to transform this operation. Funny they have to pretend he’ll be reporting to Rivera for much longer. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

13 minutes ago, Conn said:

Yeah I’m sure Rivera wrote that. lmao

 

Some people are not going to read and are going to see the fancy title he has “Senior VP of Football Strategy” and think that it’s GM-adjacent or something, but this won’t really have an effect this year. It definitely confirms that the GM Harris hires will be a forward-thinking type who wants to collaborate with a guy like Shen, though. 
 

Cool hire. First step of many to come to transform this operation. Funny they have to pretend he’ll be reporting to Rivera for much longer. 

 

The joke with some of the beat guys who cover Rivera that Rivera's version of anayltics is quoting YPC, or name that 101 from the 1980s stats that people used to obssess about that had nothing to do with anayltics but is just third grade level math stuff.

Edited October 26, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

[Stihl89]

And so it begins 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]