2023 Offseason Mini Camp, OTA’s, Training Camp Discussion Thread: Hallelujah, Josh Harris & Co. Era Edition

[Skinsinparadise]

Jets don't need it.    They were 2nd in attendance last year.  Rodgers jerseys are the 2nd highest in sales in the league.  They have plenty of buzz.  They don't need more.

 

As for this team.  Ron is the anti-buzz head coach.  We were dead last in attendance last year and if I recall dead last in sales.    Who needs some positive PR or attention?   Lets stay on brand on that front.  Let Ron manage his likely 8-9 team in peace without fanfare which is his wheel house/comfort zone. 

Edited July 12, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[DWinzit]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Jets don't need it.    They were 2nd in attendance last year.  Rodgers jerseys are the 2nd highest in sales in the league.  They have plenty of buzz.  They don't need more.

 

As for this team.  Ron is the anti-buzz head coach.  We were dead last in attendance last year and if I recall dead last in sales.    Who needs some positive PR or attention?   Lets stay on brand on that front.  Let Ron manage his likely 8-9 team in peace without fanfare which is his wheel house/comfort zone. 

The Commanders could have rivaled Rodgers jersey sales with a double aught jersey and F*** Dan on the name. Now there's your buzz!

 

On a more serious note, yeah there isn't that one player. They could however be promoting the incredible D. Come up with a nickname pushing it

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Sharp is really gunning for Ron Rivera's job.  It's a bit unusual for him.

 

As to his QB complaints, I can't fault Ron for who started when.  I can't blame him for QBs he's inherited.  But clearly he hasn't killed it at this spot.  But will see maybe Howell changes the conversation. 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, DWinzit said:

The Commanders could have rivaled Rodgers jersey sales with a double aught jersey and F*** Dan on the name. Now there's your buzz!

 

On a more serious note, yeah there isn't that one player. They could however be promoting the incredible D. Come up with a nickname pushing it

 

 

 

Yeah my sarcasm is I don't get those who didn't want Hard Knocks.  I am gathering they haven't watched the show or if they have not watched it much.  It's not a reality gotcha TV show -- its much more of a PR show, the team signs off on the content and has editing control.  Every team has looked good coming out of that show and most got some buzz from it including the Lions who were mostly seen as a boring team before that show but not any more.

 

But a low key, low buzz, 8-9 season is on brand for Ron's tenure.  So apparently its just meant to be to go with a mediocre, nonhyped and boring version of so so to cap off the tenure.  Why rock that boat?  😎 

 

 

Edited July 13, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[DWinzit]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Sharp is really gunning for Ron Rivera's job.  It's a bit unusual for him.

 

As to his QB complaints, I can't fault Ron for who started when.  I can't blame him for QBs he's inherited.  But clearly he hasn't killed it at this spot.  But will see maybe Howell changes the conversation. 

 

 

 

 

Yeah my sarcasm is I don't get those who didn't want Hard Knocks.  I am gathering they haven't watched the show or if they have not watched it much.  It's not a reality gotcha TV show -- its much more of a PR show, the team signs off on the content and has editing control.  Every team has looked good coming out of that show and most got some buzz from it including the Lions who were mostly seen as a boring team before that show but not any more.

 

But a low key, low buzz, 8-9 season is on brand for Ron's tenure.  So apparently its just meant to be to go with a mediocre and boring version of so so to cap off the tenure.  Why rock that boat?  😎 

Man SIP, I am reading that post and hearing Eeyore's voice. That's not like you

 

Ron's history has been 50/50 really. In Carolina each year he'd do just enough at the end of the year to save his job for another year after crappy season starts.

Add a legit starting OL and maybe this D can carry the team more than we are giving them credit. 

[Skinsinparadise]

21 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Man SIP, I am reading that post and hearing Eeyore's voice. That's not like you

 

Ron's history has been 50/50 really. In Carolina each year he'd do just enough at the end of the year to save his job for another year after crappy season starts.

Add a legit starting OL and maybe this D can carry the team more than we are giving them credit. 

 

Not like me -- meaning too positive about Ron there?  If so, my point is Sharp is blasting him for lineup changes at QB.  I don't fault him for example that Fitz got hurt in game 1 or lineup changes in general.  The fault at QB is in the personnel moves.

 

But I am not really that down on Ron for QB.  I want someone who keeps swinging and I'll give him that he's done that.  The Wentz trade though was atrocious.

 

My main beef with Ron is he talks a good game as to the O line and wanting fans back in the stands.  Yet, he's turned a good O line into a bad one.  And he doesn't seem to have a bone in his body that understands how to create a buzz with fans and put butts in the stands.  

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

Sharp and his mustache can take a long hike down by the river. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[samy316]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Sharp is really gunning for Ron Rivera's job.  It's a bit unusual for him.

 

As to his QB complaints, I can't fault Ron for who started when.  I can't blame him for QBs he's inherited.  But clearly he hasn't killed it at this spot.  But will see maybe Howell changes the conversation. 

 

 

 

I’m here for this.  The more Rivera’s negligence at QB is called out, the greater the chance he’s canned if we get off to another one of his patented slow starts.  No coach in the NFL should have a hotter seat right now than RR.

I’m here for this.  The more Rivera’s negligence at QB is called out, the greater the chance he’s canned if we get off to another one of his patented slow starts.  No coach in the NFL should have a hotter seat right now than RR.

Edited July 13, 2023 by samy316

[Voice_of_Reason]

37 minutes ago, samy316 said:

I’m here for this.  The more Rivera’s negligence at QB is called out, the greater the chance he’s canned if we get off to another one of his patented slow starts.  No coach in the NFL should have a hotter seat right now than RR.

The two are not related.  I doubt Josh Harris is making a coaching decision based on stuff a guy with a bad mustache is posting on Twitter. 

[FootballZombie]

Bummed about Hard Knocks. That would have been some well needed team-controlled exposure. Its looking like it will likely be another poor year for attendance and sales. bleh. It will be super hard to get it next year as we will either be a playoff team or have a new coaching staff, which means HBO can't force us to do it.

 

 

They were willing enough to do it with the lowest attendance team in the NFL w/ the lions, so there may have been a decent shot they would have done it with us if people on the football side were more receptive to the idea.

 

If every team is gonna push-back, then of course they choose the big market Jets.

[samy316]

7 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

The two are not related.  I doubt Josh Harris is making a coaching decision based on stuff a guy with a bad mustache is posting on Twitter. 

I know that, I’m just saying that the media reporting our great misadventures at QB, will hammer home to everyone how bad the situation has been.  It looks like Ron has been skating national criticism for his decisions at QB until now.

[samy316]

6 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

Bummed about Hard Knocks. That would have been some well needed team-controlled exposure. Its looking like it will likely be another poor year for attendance and sales. bleh. It will be super hard to get it next year as we will either be a playoff team or have a new coaching staff, which means HBO can't force us to do it.

 

 

They were willing enough to do it with the lowest attendance team in the NFL w/ the lions, so there may have been a decent shot they would have done it with us if people on the football side were more receptive to the idea.

 

If every team is gonna push-back, then of course they choose the big market Jets.

I don’t think we were ever in the running for Hard Knocks, once Aaron Rodgers was headed to the Jets.  That just catapulted them to the top of the list.  The ownership issues might have something to do with their reasoning, but let’s face it, NFL fans would be much more captivated by the Jets, then they would this team.  We have no real big stars, and unlike the Lions, we’re NOT lovable losers.  The Lions have a coach that everyone likes and roots for, and they have a larger, more tortured fanbase than this team.  The Commanders are hated by the national media, and we’re practically an anonymous team, thanks in large part to Rivera.

[Skinsinparadise]

8 hours ago, samy316 said:

I’m here for this.  The more Rivera’s negligence at QB is called out, the greater the chance he’s canned if we get off to another one of his patented slow starts.  No coach in the NFL should have a hotter seat right now than RR.

 

Rivera as a dude is respected by the national media.  As a head coach, he's clearly not respected at all judging by rankings among other things.

 

Just a little surprised how persistent Sharp has been of late on the subjet.

 

As for Rivera's fate that seems clear.  Playoffs or he's likely canned. 

[88Comrade2000]

14 minutes ago, samy316 said:

I don’t think we were ever in the running for Hard Knocks, once Aaron Rodgers was headed to the Jets.  That just catapulted them to the top of the list.  The ownership issues might have something to do with their reasoning, but let’s face it, NFL fans would be much more captivated by the Jets, then they would this team.  We have no real big stars, and unlike the Lions, we’re NOT lovable losers.  The Lions have a coach that everyone likes and roots for, and they have a larger, more tortured fanbase than this team.  The Commanders are hated by the national media, and we’re practically an anonymous team, thanks in large part to Rivera.

There’s nothing compelling to watch about this team. Aaron alone, makes for must watch tv. So, the Jets Hard Knocks will be one of the higher rated editions.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

24 minutes ago, samy316 said:

I don’t think we were ever in the running for Hard Knocks, once Aaron Rodgers was headed to the Jets.  That just catapulted them to the top of the list.  The ownership issues might have something to do with their reasoning, but let’s face it, NFL fans would be much more captivated by the Jets, then they would this team.  We have no real big stars, and unlike the Lions, we’re NOT lovable losers.  The Lions have a coach that everyone likes and roots for, and they have a larger, more tortured fanbase than this team.  The Commanders are hated by the national media, and we’re practically an anonymous team, thanks in large part to Rivera.

 

Agree that this is an anoymous team.  Dead last in attendance, sales.  If I recall we don't even have a single player in the top 100 in jersey sales.  No prime time games on Sunday or Monday.  A punchline for irrelevance on sports shows.    In the 80s, this wasn't a sexy team but it was big time relevant.    I just hate hearing the stories from the DMV (and I've seen it when I travel) that kids don't wear this team's jersey but wear other teams.  Some apparenty judigng by posts are cool with that or don't care.  But it drives me nuts.   It bothers me almost as much as the non-winning. 

 

Not sure I agree that the Lions were lovable losers BERORE the show but they are chic now.  They were considered a pretty boring get at the tiime.  But like other teams on that show they became more interesting with exposure.  It's part of my point.  The Lions were the dead last in the league attendance team before that show.

 

I think it was on point that the business operation (sales) wanted this badly according to beat guys and the coaches did not.  Rivera says he cares about sales but his actions show he doesn't give a rats behind about it or has no clue, zero, how to do it.

 

I think they will get a Dan is selling bump in attendance.  But if the season unfolds they way I expect, It will taper off at some point. 

 

As I've said too many times this off season, the fatal blow for me with Ron if I were Harris isn't just the mediocre runs but also how boring those runs are and how little feel he has for getting fans in the seats even though he complains about the problem incessantly.    The boring off seasons, lack of star power, lack of pizzaz = lack of attention and interest.  Yes, you can be boring and just win and ovecome the lack of oomph that way.  But he doesn't play that card either.    

 

Edited July 13, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[88Comrade2000]

Ron should just retire after the season, if he’s still there.

[ixcuincle]

Training camp tickets were released, all free (no lottery). Got mine for Friday. Used my STH benefit to get VIP access to food and drink.

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, ixcuincle said:

Training camp tickets were released, all free (no lottery). Got mine for Friday. Used my STH benefit to get VIP access to food and drink.

 

They were easy gets. Not sure if I am going though.  

 

I tried to get the Ravens camp passes for the practices against this team.  i was ready at 11 am yesterday the second they were released and they were gone in an instant.  Couldn't get them.  Then I looked at their other practices for kicks, all gone too within minutes.

[samy316]

11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Agree that this is an anoymous team.  Dead last in attendance, sales.  If I recall we don't even have a single player in the top 100 in jersey sales.  No prime time games on Sunday or Monday.  A punchline for irrelevance on sports shows.    In the 80s, this wasn't a sexy team but it was big time relevant.    I just hate hearing the stories from the DMV (and I've seen it when I travel) that kids don't wear this team's jersey but wear other teams.  Some apparenty judigng by posts are cool with that or don't care.  But it drives me nuts.   It bothers me almost as much as the non-winning. 

 

Not sure I agree that the Lions were lovable losers BERORE the show but they are chic now.  They were considered a pretty boring get at the tiime.  But like other teams on that show they became more interesting with exposure.  It's part of my point.  The Lions were the dead last in the league attendance team before that show.

 

I think it was on point that the business operation (sales) wanted this badly according to beat guys and the coaches did not.  Rivera says he cares about sales but his actions show he doesn't give a rats behind about it or has no clue, zero, how to do it.

 

I think they will get a Dan is selling bump in attendance.  But if the season unfolds they way I expect, It will taper off at some point. 

 

As I've said too many times this off season, the fatal blow for me with Ron if I were Harris isn't just the mediocre runs but also how boring those runs are and how little feel he has for getting fans in the seats even though he complains about the problem incessantly.    The boring off seasons, lack of star power, lack of pizzaz = lack of attention and interest.  Yes, you can be boring and just win and ovecome the lack of oomph that way.  But he doesn't play that card either.    

 

I think our escapades and scandals have made this team hate able.  It’s the incompetence, followed by poor coaching, and an all-time awful owner.  The Lions are just incompetent.  But, they come from a city of underdogs, and their owners, while incompetent, have owned that team for decades.  The Lions have never been in any off field scandals that I can remember.  They now have an HC, who’s a media superstar.  Campbell came in, and by the end of his first press conference, he let everyone know that the culture was going to be different.

 

Ford Field is the smallest stadium in the NFL.  I think that it barely cracks 60,000 seating capacity, so it doesn’t shock me that the Lions had the lowest attendance in the league for several years.  If you get 90-95% capacity, that’s about 55-58K.   We had to remove seats from Fed-Ex to get our capacity to 67K, and we’re only getting about 60% capacity at best.  Much more embarrassing.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

What should Rivera have done differently with the QB's available and with Snyder's demands? Snyder loved Haskins and Rivera inherited that situation.

 

Only way for Rivera to avoid that was to have not taken the job in 2020.

[Skinsinparadise]

33 minutes ago, samy316 said:

I think our escapades and scandals have made this team hate able.  It’s the incompetence, followed by poor coaching, and an all-time awful owner.  The Lions are just incompetent.  But, they come from a city of underdogs, and their owners, while incompetent, have owned that team for decades.  The Lions have never been in any off field scandals that I can remember.

 

Lions IMO were about as blah as it gets.   Not a national draw, then at all.  I bemoan how over the years I've seen the decline of people wearing this teams jersey in Disney and other areas where people tend to wear jerseys.  Lions are even worse than us.  i think they still are, actually.  I can't recall the last time I stumbled on someone wearing one.   that show made them a bit sexy. 

 

They had zero sex appeal at the time IMO.   Loveable losers I equate with teams that lose yet have a large passionate fan base -- in baseball the Cubs.  Football maybe the Browns fit that.  IMO not the Lions.   Every team has some passionate fans but I don't equate that team on the high end on that front. Maybe a medium level?

 

This team is less likeable for sure.  But the bleeding of fans-irrelevance for this team happened before the slew of scandal stories. Yeah Dan was always unlikeable but he had a spell under Bruce's reign where he was pretty quiet and the team wasn't immersed in bad national stories -- but yet they were boring.  I used to talk about it a lot in that previous FO thread.  Bruce had his fans and some of them hated me and some others who criticized that reign.   But it wasn't hard to see fans will check out in the style he ran that team.    We called it then.  It wasn't hard to see it coming.

 

As JP Finlay said the last hurrah for fans was the Kirk era where we had an offense and receivers who made plays.  Bruce was a death by a thousand cuts working with Dan turning this team irrelevant but my favorite moment to cite was when he did an interview with Finlay explaining letting the WRs go and saying yeah but then explaining how they got Brian Quick on a great, deal, etc.

 

Lack of star power.  They were cheap.   They were boring.  They were mediocre at best.

 

Ron IMO is cut from the same cloth of the style that Bruce ran the FO.  But he's a classier version with much better people skills.  And a slightly more competent version.  That cycle though of mediocre-a mega boring version of it has to stop IMO.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 13, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[samy316]

29 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Lions IMO were about as blah as it gets.   Not a national draw, then at all.  I bemoan how over the years I've seen the decline of people wearing this teams jersey in Disney and other areas where people tend to wear jerseys.  Lions are even worse than us.  i think they still are, actually.  I can't recall the last time I stumbled on someone wearing one.   that show made them a bit sexy. 

 

They had zero sex appeal at the time IMO.   Loveable losers I equate with teams that lose yet have a large passionate fan base -- in baseball the Cubs.  Football maybe the Browns fit that.  IMO not the Lions.   Every team has some passionate fans but I don't equate that team on the high end on that front. Maybe a medium level?

 

This team is less likeable for sure.  But the bleeding of fans-irrelevance for this team happened before the slew of scandal stories. Yeah Dan was always unlikeable but he had a spell under Bruce's reign where he was pretty quiet and the team wasn't immersed in bad national stories -- but yet they were boring.  I used to talk about it a lot in that previous FO thread.  Bruce had his fans and some of them hated me and some others who criticized that reign.   But it wasn't hard to see fans will check out in the style he ran that team.    We called it then.  It wasn't hard to see it coming.

 

 

I think this team has an air of sleaziness that just makes them hate-able and easy to root against.  The difference between us and teams like the Lions & Browns, is that people ultimately feel sorry for the latter teams.  Both have never been to SB’s, much less won them, and both teams have been around almost as long as we have.  Both also play in hard luck, blue collar towns, as opposed to Washington, the seat of power in this nation and the free world. Maybe our perception changes when Harris takes over the reins, but we’re still one of the most hated teams in the league, by media and opposing fans alike.  It’s going to take a long time to change our perception.

Edited July 13, 2023 by samy316

[ixcuincle]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

They were easy gets. Not sure if I am going though.  

 

I tried to get the Ravens camp passes for the practices against this team.  i was ready at 11 am yesterday the second they were released and they were gone in an instant.  Couldn't get them.  Then I looked at their other practices for kicks, all gone too within minutes.

I didn't know those were even available. Damn. 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

28 minutes ago, samy316 said:

I think this team has an air of sleaziness that just makes them hate-able and easy to root against.  The difference between us and teams like the Lions & Browns, is that people ultimately feel sorry for the latter teams.  Both have never been to SB’s, much less won them, and both teams have been around almost as long as we have.  Both also play in hard luck, blue collar towns, as opposed to Washington, the seat of power in this nation and the free world.  Maybe our perception changes when Harris takes over the reins, but we’re still one of the most hated teams in the league, by media and opposing fans alike.  It’s going to take a long time to change our perception.

 

I've made similar points before.   But my point is there was a lull with this team on that front.  At least on the national front.  And the fan decline happened anyway.    My only disagreement is about the Lions.  And granted we all got our circles.  But in my circle you can't get more blah over the years than the Lions.  And I've been a big baseball guy through most of my lifetime.  I know Cub fans and have seen their passion.   

 

The Lions IMO don't have passion like that at least in my circle or what i've observed when i watch national TV.   And granted EVERY team has some passionate fans and i got no doubt their are some diehards with a blue collar attitude, etc.  But I just never got the vibe that the Lions had a ton of that.  Some of it, sure.  I agree that there is a rallying cry for just about any fan base that has been tortured for years because of all the losing and that team certainly fits that mold.

 

We've always had our share of local bad stories.  But nationally, not so much.  And that bothered me because I don't think nationally people realized like we do how bad Dan actually was until the run of scandals that got national play.   My explanations to other fans I know about Dan really took hold in recent years where it got on their radar.  Their understood that he was Steinbrenner like as someone who interferes but not so much the sleaze.

 

We had the brash Dan wants every star on the planet early era as for national attention.  It took forever oddly for the national media-audience to catch up that under Bruce that era died and died big time.  Some still like to say we chase every star.  It's amazing.   Then we had the run of scandals under the Ron era.   And that seemed to be the game changer finally.

 

That seems to fit my own experience talking to fans over the years.   In Florida, we have so many transplants and fans of all teams.  And in my work I deal with a ton of people and I talk my share of football.  And I'll grant that we all have our own circle and bias based on that.  it's not a representative sample-poll.   It can certainly be some random luck in that mix. 

 

But i'll say from my biased sample, the Lions aren't a team that the typical fan gives a rats behind about.  Heck and I work closely with 2 colleagues from Michigan and they aren't even Lions fans.  But are major Michigan (college team) fans.  When I talk football, its not a team that comes up.   When I noticed jerseys, its not a team I typically ever spot.

 

The Lions got some infamy under Matt Millen with the bad draft picks and the displays with fans with bags on their head so on that front they got some attention.  But overall, they seemed  in my circle maybe the most irrelevant team in the NFL sans the Jaguars.

 

On national games sometimes they poll their audience before hand, who do you want to win?  And we'd fare typically fine on that front.  Heck I recall the big game against Dallas in 2012 for the division and nationally overwhelmingly people across the country were rooting for us.  We've done plenty well on other polls like that where a national audience is asked for rooting interests.  Mind you again, pre the run of national scandals that happened in recent years. 

 

But yeah these days I agree this team is uncool on two fronts.  Boring team.  And sleazy.  But my point is we had a phase where it was just boring.

Edited July 13, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Warhead36]

1 hour ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

Ron should just retire after the season, if he’s still there.

If I were a betting man I'd wager he ends up taking a media job somewhere after Harris lets him go, but I actually think we could do well enough for him to keep his job.