2024 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

Watched my first game of Cole Bishop. Ill watch more. But first impression is wow is he a fun watch. Hes all over the field in the box, post, as a stand up pass rusher. 

 

You can see his speed in pursuit sideline to sideline. Big time motor. Good complement to Chinn because he plays with similar oomph but is better in coverage than Chinn. 

 

 

 

Edited April 11 by Skinsinparadise

[DWinzit]

15 hours ago, Going Commando said:

Man I just can't get on the Rosengarten bandwagon.  His hands looks really bad to me, and when he loses, it's ugly and he looks panicky.  Balance seems a little sketchy too.

 

Gonna go back and watch his SB reps again to make sure he wasn't the guy I said "get a load of this ****in stiff" about in my head.

I've had a hard time with Rosengarten it appears at times he isn't strong or sturdy enough, like he is too upright yet has some knee bend. He has great feet quickness but he lacks that attribute and strength in his arms and hands. Strange. I'd think with the right coaching some of that could be corrected but he needs to be in the right system.

 

Regarding Latham, am I correct that he has refused all workouts and testing?  If so, this represents a big red flag for me. Is he in shape, did he gain weight? I really like him and have had him as my 3rd T.

[Going Commando]

13 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Didn't realize Rosengarten's arm length was so short. That coupled with his small height and weight tell me he's probably more of a G in the NFL.

 

No way.  His arms are longer than Penei Sewell's, who is the best tackle in the NFL.  You don't waste an athlete like Rosengarten at guard.

[mhd24]

24 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

I've had a hard time with Rosengarten it appears at times he isn't strong or sturdy enough, like he is too upright yet has some knee bend. He has great feet quickness but he lacks that attribute and strength in his arms and hands. Strange. I'd think with the right coaching some of that could be corrected but he needs to be in the right system.

 

Regarding Latham, am I correct that he has refused all workouts and testing?  If so, this represents a big red flag for me. Is he in shape, did he gain weight? I really like him and have had him as my 3rd T.

 

 

Its one thing when you are MHJ who has been regarded as a top 5 pick for years.  Its another when you are OL and are competing against the multitude of top tier guys this year.  I have him falling significantly.  I think his range is honestly 18-32 now.  I can't justify taking him over Fuaga or Fautanu.

[DWinzit]

15 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

I'm still high on Paul as far as the not 1rst rounders. He has a Trent Williams type of ceiling IMO. I also like Kiran AmaYale

So the long ass arm club with Latham and Mims 

[Skinsinparadise]

Watched another game of Cole Bishop.  The dude just flies all over the field.  Play recognition skills look excellent and he finds away to the action even if the play is on the other side of the field.  Has a bit of a mean streak.   High energy -- in that regards he reminds me of Chinn.  He's not quite the college player Chinn was in the box.  But he's more the swiss arm knife who looks fluid in coverage.

 

His speed shows up in coverage skills and closing burst.  Weakness - not the longest arms and can over pursue and not wrap up when he tackles all the time.

 

But tone setter -- versatile player.   Can play post safety which IMO which is important to have in this offense because we got more natural box type safeties.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.si.com/college/utah/football/cole-bishop-is-ready-to-be-a-primary-leader-for-the-utes-defense

Even though the depth chart only reads sophomore, Bishop is incredibly mature for his age and is prepared to lead early on. According to defensive coordinator Morgan Scalley, Bishop is even one of those guys that makes you a better coach and sets a perfect example for the program.

"Cole is a stud," Scalley said. "Cole is one that makes you a better coach right? Another guy that is a student of the game, you see him in the study and film all the time. Those are great ambassadors for the University as well."

[Going Commando]

14 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

Kind of surprised about the Rosengarten takes in here. I like him a lot. He is one of the most athletic T's in the draft. Yes he is going to need help with his technique. But all of these guys are going to need that. He gives you elite athleticism to work with though

 

I think it's mostly about his hands for me.  A more accurate punch, better syncing with his feet, and better latching on, and I can see a good player in him.  I think the feet are already pretty good with him.  His sets and his slide and mirror look really good and his first step is fantastic.

 

I think his hand speed is really good too.  He also has a good motor and will battle back after his hands get cleared.

 

And his move blocking in the run game is pretty good.  He has such good speed that it should translate.

 

Yeah I guess I can get on board with him at 67.  I don't know about in the second round though.  Not at 36 or 40.

[Going Commando]

I kind of cooled on Paul after SB week.  I remember thinking that he looked kind of slow and thin legged.  Nothing that was a deal breaker, but enough to move me off of drafting him at 36 and 40.  He just isn't very twitched up and I want an explosive OL at those high picks.

 

Explosiveness isn't everything, he can clearly win with size and length.  He just feels kind of like a rich man's Cornelius Lucas and I was hoping for a more dominant level of upside.  I want to trade down from 40 before picking him.

 

The truth is all of the OTs we are looking at in the second are fairly flawed, or else they'd be going in the first.  But my gut preference is:

 

1 - Morgan

2 - Suamataia, but only if the maturity questions aren't true.  If they are, put him behind Rosengarten.

3 - Amegadjie

4 - Paul

5 - Fisher

6 - Rosengarten

 

I have a hard time taking these guys over Cooper Beebe.  Morgan is the only one who might be better than Beebe, and I'm not 100% on that.

 

I'm not trading down if Darius Robinson is at 36, and maybe not if Chop is there either.  And I would stay put and pick Morgan at 36 too.  But if they are gone, then I think I want us to trade down from 36 to get into a better range for Paul or Amegadjie and just pick Beebe at 40.  Beebe is the BPA OL pick for me at that spot. 

 

Anyone know what dropping back from 36 to ~50 is worth?

[Est.1974]

2 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

Anyone know what dropping back from 36 to ~50 is worth?

Lower 3rd I’d say

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Trade backs from around our Round 2 Picks in recent years:

 

No. 38 for No.44 and 110 --- Trade down team wins 164-157

No. 35 for No. 38 and 141 --- Trade down team wins 171-170

No. 34 for No. 53 and 59 --- Trade down team wins 197-175

No. 38 for No. 46, 122 and 139 --- Trade down team wins 165-157

No. 39 and 151 for No. 52, 83, 204 --- Even trade 165-165

Also an interesting trade from 2022 that might give us a sense of what it would take to get back into the 20's:

No. 26 and 101 for No.35, 69 and 163 ---  Trade UP team wins 257-251

 

Some good insight what trades may be reality for us.

 

[Going Commando]

19 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

No. 34 for No. 53 and 59 --- Trade down team wins 197-175

 

This trade is a huge win.  Who was the player that was taken at 34?

[JamesMadisonSkins]

43 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Trade backs from around our Round 2 Picks in recent years:

 

No. 38 for No.44 and 110 --- Trade down team wins 164-157

No. 35 for No. 38 and 141 --- Trade down team wins 171-170

No. 34 for No. 53 and 59 --- Trade down team wins 197-175

No. 38 for No. 46, 122 and 139 --- Trade down team wins 165-157

No. 39 and 151 for No. 52, 83, 204 --- Even trade 165-165

Also an interesting trade from 2022 that might give us a sense of what it would take to get back into the 20's:

No. 26 and 101 for No.35, 69 and 163 ---  Trade UP team wins 257-251

 

Some good insight what trades may be reality for us.

 

 

No. 40 for No. 49 and 97 from Cincinnati would be 156-149 for us

No. 40 for No. 54 and 85 from Cleveland would be 154-149 for us

No. 40 for No. 61 and 73 from Detroit would be 151-149 for us

No. 40 for No. 63, 94 and 124 from San Fran would be 149-144 for them

23 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

This trade is a huge win.  Who was the player that was taken at 34?

 

Green Bay traded up for Christian Watson at #34

 

Minnesota got #53 and #59

They drafted G Ed Ingram at #59

Minnesota traded No. 53, 77 and 192 to Indianapolis for No. 42 and 122 ... took CB Andrew Booth at 42 and RB Zamir White at 122

Indianpolis took WR Alec Pierce at No. 53, OT Bernhard Raimann at 77 and TE Andrew Ogletree at 192

 

FWIW for that second trade, 53 + 77 + 192 was worth 172 to Indy and 42 + 122 was worth 164 to Minnesota

 

So for Minnesota:

Traded: No. 34, 77, 192 (241)

Received: No. 42, 59, 122 (255)

 

34, 77, 192 ended up being WR Christian Watson (GB), OT Bernhard Raimann (IND), TE Andrew Ogletree (IND)

42, 59, 122 ended up being CB Andrew Booth, OG Ed Ingram, RB Zamir White (All Minnesota)

Edited April 11 by JamesMadisonSkins

[mhd24]

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

 

Anyone know what dropping back from 36 to ~50 is worth?

I posted this earlier in the thread:

 

In 2022, Jets traded 36 for 38+146 (10 spots from the top of round 5)

In 2022, Falcons traded 38 for 43+114 (a mid 4th)

In 2022, Indy traded 42+122 ( (mid 4th) for 53+77 (mid 3rd)+192 (mid 6th)

 

In 2021, Bengals traded 38 for 46+122 (20 spots from the top of round 4)+139 (early 5th)

In 2021, Carolina traded 39+151 (mid 5th) for 52+83 (mid 3rd)+204 (27 spots from top of round 6)

In 2021, Giants traded 42 for 50+future 3rd

 

In 2020, Browns traded 41 for 44+160 (24 spots from top of round 5)

 

In 2019, Raiders traded 35+140 (top of round 5)+235 (mid 7th) for 38+109 (8 spots from top of round 4)

In 2019, Seahawks traded 37 for 47+77 (12 spots from top of round 3)

In 2019, Raiders traded 38 for 40+158 (mid 5th)

 

 

Edited April 11 by mhd24

[clskinsfan]

8 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Green Bay traded up for Christian Watson at #34

 

Minnesota got #53 and #59

They drafted G Ed Ingram at #59

Minnesota traded No. 53, 77 and 192 to Indianapolis for No. 42 and 122 ... took CB Andrew Booth at 42 and RB Zamir White at 122

Indianpolis took WR Alec Pierce at No. 53, OT Bernhard Raimann at 77 and TE Andrew Ogletree at 192

Green Bay won that trade big time imo. 

 

Edit: The positional value alone of WR over G makes it a win. Watson has been meh so far. But he is also only 24 at this point. 

Edited April 11 by clskinsfan

[JamesMadisonSkins]

4 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Green Bay won that trade big time imo.

 

Won the trade in the end, lost pretty big in trade value on paper. Just goes to show, none of this really matters if you don't nail the picks.

[Warhead36]

Trading up/down really comes down to how you value your board.

 

Lets say there are 35 players with first round grades. It might make sense then to move UP form 36 to get one of the last few 1st round graded players. 

 

On the flip side, if you have a bunch of guys with top 50 ish grades, then it makes more sense to move down from 36 or 40 to get multiple picks since the value is equal anyway, might as well take more shots.

 

It'll be interesting to see how Peters plays this. On one hand I want him to have as many bullets in his chamber as possible, but from what I've read this draft drops off in talent after around 30-35 and then has a really big drop off after about 65 and we have some sweet spot picks that could be used to move up or down(36 and 67). I think there is a really good chance we package 36 with a mid to late rounder to move back up for one of the last remaining 1st round Ts. 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

2 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

No way.  His arms are longer than Penei Sewell's, who is the best tackle in the NFL.  You don't waste an athlete like Rosengarten at guard.

 

Sure you do. A lot of great Guard's (and Center's) are really athletic.

 

Evan Mathis, David DeCastro, Joel Bitonio, Brandon Scherff, and Ali Marpet fit that. Currently the Chiefs have a pair of extremely athletic Guards in Trey Smith and Joe Thuney.

 

Why wouldn't athleticism help inside?

[Skinsinparadise]

He's just a fan but I hope so.  I have started playing with my guys list for the draft.  I currently got 3 WRs on that list, Wilson is one of them.

 

And for the Maye-Daniels debate.  We talked some about WRs matches.  Wilson to me as I talked about before feels more of a Maye matchup.

 

 

 

Edited April 11 by Skinsinparadise

[skinny21]

Given my take on traits Quinn et al might be looking for, I’m curious who in the 2nd-5th fits:

FS - good-very good ball skills, decent-good tackler, not afraid to stick their nose in

DE - relentless/great motor, is a “dawg”, is either good at run stuffing/setting the edge or a good rusher (obviously both would be ideal).

 

Anything you’d add/argue with in terms of traits these coaches might be after?

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, skinny21 said:

Given my take on traits Quinn et al might be looking for, I’m curious who in the 2nd-5th fits:

FS - good-very good ball skills, decent-good tackler, not afraid to stick their nose in

DE - relentless/great motor, is a “dawg”, is either good at run stuffing/setting the edge or a good rusher (obviously both would be ideal).

 

Anything you’d add/argue with in terms of traits these coaches might be after?

 

CB -- man, especially off man with ball hawking skills

 

LBs-safeties who are dogs and can tackle.   So not pure coverage guys who are meh tacklers

[clskinsfan]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

He's just a fan but I hope so.  I have started playing with my guys list for the draft.  I currently got 3 WRs on that list, Wilson is one of them.

 

 

 

Interesting. I like Wilson A LOT. But he isnt really the big body guy i was thinking we would be looking for. My comp for him in fact would be Dotson. 

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Interesting. I like Wilson A LOT. But he isnt really the big body guy i was thinking we would be looking for. My comp for him in fact would be Dotson. 

 

It's not a bad comp.  I think he's more of a deep threat potentially versus Dotson. 

 

I used to be but not as fixated on tall-big body receivers because some of them feel boom-bust to me but if I went with one it would be Legette, I wouldnt hate Coleman or J. Wilson.

 

I've been locked into McConkey, Pearsall, R, Wilson because they are good seperators and can do it in tight space.  High floor players.  All with good speed.  McConkey is my fav of the three mainly because he's the better YAC guy of the three.  But I think all three with contribute fast -- pro ready, good route runners, etc.

Edited April 11 by Skinsinparadise

[Warhead36]

Since we're drafting Daniels we need to get players that synergize with his playstyle. Deep threat WRs in particular. TEs aren't really a necessity now since we'll never throw down the middle. I also think the need for OL is lessened a bit since Daniels can run around(and he's gonna run into a bunch of sacks anyway so it doesn't matter even if we get five Trent Williams in front of him).

[Anselmheifer]

3 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

No way.  His arms are longer than Penei Sewell's, who is the best tackle in the NFL.  You don't waste an athlete like Rosengarten at guard.

 

But Penei had that elite tape. I'm not saying you're wrong about Rosengarten in particular, but his measurements and testing look very comparable to Sam Cosmi, to me, and we all know how that turned out. Cosmi and Rosengarten, and Penei all have roughly 33 inch arms, or just over. 

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Since we're drafting Daniels we need to get players that synergize with his playstyle. Deep threat WRs in particular. TEs aren't really a necessity now since we'll never throw down the middle. I also think the need for OL is lessened a bit since Daniels can run around(and he's gonna run into a bunch of sacks anyway so it doesn't matter even if we get five Trent Williams in front of him).

 

I saw your post in the QB thread.  I am catching up to Sheehan tough for me to imagine he was that defintiive?  He's been saying this FO is close lipped.

 

But to play with the Daniels idea IMO. Legette, Corley, Burton.  I'd consider trading up for Thomas.