2024 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Warhead36]

15 minutes ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

 

 

I like Troy, just would've preferred a move up a bit earlier for a goodness to gracious legit starting OT, but overall fine draft.

 

Not going to quibble over Maye at 2, as I personally  prefer Jayden, but only by a slight margin, I would defunitely be happy adding either player, in the long run.

 

Very nice work.

I look at it like: there are four high end legit day one starting Ts in Alt, Fashanu, Latham, and Fauga, with Latham and Fauga more RT. 

 

After that, you have a bunch of guys that are high ceiling but riskier project types. Or you have lower end guys who project more as Gs(Barton, Morgan). And then you have the 2nd round crop which isn't bad, guys like Kiran whateverhisname from Yale and Kingsley Saumatia, whom I think could be available at 36(but its risky).

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Who could get a draft boost from the overhauled kickoff? Xavier Leggette maybe?

[method man]

49 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I look at it like: there are four high end legit day one starting Ts in Alt, Fashanu, Latham, and Fauga, with Latham and Fauga more RT. 

 

After that, you have a bunch of guys that are high ceiling but riskier project types. Or you have lower end guys who project more as Gs(Barton, Morgan). And then you have the 2nd round crop which isn't bad, guys like Kiran whateverhisname from Yale and Kingsley Saumatia, whom I think could be available at 36(but its risky).

Exactly my thought, which is why waiting until the 2nd is risky. It wouldn’t surprise me if we move both 2nds to move up to the mid 1st for Fashanu if he is there and he just might be.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

10 minutes ago, method man said:

Exactly my thought, which is why waiting until the 2nd is risky. It wouldn’t surprise me if we move both 2nds to move up to the mid 1st for Fashanu if he is there and he just might be.

 

It's lying season, but Peters has implied they do not feel desperate enough at OT to do that.

[Warhead36]

27 minutes ago, method man said:

Exactly my thought, which is why waiting until the 2nd is risky. It wouldn’t surprise me if we move both 2nds to move up to the mid 1st for Fashanu if he is there and he just might be.

I have him going 14 to the Saints. 36 and 40 nets out to about pick #15 in the draft value chart(admittedly an obsolete guide but it gives some kinda reference).

 

Fashanu is a heck of a prospect but I don't know, I kinda wanna see what Peters can mine from 36 and 40. If we can get another T who is maybe only 75% as good as Fashanu AND get a starting caliber WR or CB, isn't that better value?

[method man]

3 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I have him going 14 to the Saints. 36 and 40 nets out to about pick #15 in the draft value chart(admittedly an obsolete guide but it gives some kinda reference).

 

Fashanu is a heck of a prospect but I don't know, I kinda wanna see what Peters can mine from 36 and 40. If we can get another T who is maybe only 75% as good as Fashanu AND get a starting caliber WR or CB, isn't that better value?

You don’t mess around with left tackle. This is why I was bummed that things didn’t work out with Leno. He would have been a great bridge to a longer term solution

[skinny21]

The consensus mock (NFLdraftdatabase.com) has Kingsley at 45, Amegadjie at 55 and Rosengarten at 62.  No Paul, no Fisher in first two rounds. Depending on fit and the FO’s view of these guys, I could see targeting an OT after trading back from one of our 2nds.

 

They also have 4 safeties in the 2nd after 40 (including Nubin), and 6 corners in the 2nd from 36 (including us taking TJ Tampa at 36).  On one hand, that suggests pretty good odds we land a db in the 2nd, but on the other hand, I have to assume some quality dbs will slip to the 3rd…

 

They have us taking Tampa at 36 and Trice at 40.  Kneeland and Braswell are the other 2nd round DEs.

[Koolblue13]

6 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

The consensus mock (NFLdraftdatabase.com) has Kingsley at 45, Amegadjie at 55 and Rosengarten at 62.  No Paul, no Fisher in first two rounds. Depending on fit and the FO’s view of these guys, I could see targeting an OT after trading back from one of our 2nds.

 

They also have 4 safeties in the 2nd after 40 (including Nubin), and 6 corners in the 2nd from 36 (including us taking TJ Tampa at 36).  On one hand, that suggests pretty good odds we land a db in the 2nd, but on the other hand, I have to assume some quality dbs will slip to the 3rd…

 

They have us taking Tampa at 36 and Trice at 40.  Kneeland and Braswell are the other 2nd round DEs.

I'm not seeing a world where DE and CB aren't BPA for us in the 2nd.

[Warhead36]

1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

I'm not seeing a world where DE and CB aren't BPA for us in the 2nd.

I don't know I think WR has a good chance of being BPA as well. And the fact that we didn't address it at all despite needing a #3 and beyond tells me the FO feels the same way.

[skinny21]

5 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I'm not seeing a world where DE and CB aren't BPA for us in the 2nd.

I think @Warhead36 is right that wr could match that, and then (IMO) maybe safety as well.  I tend to believe we’ll land an OT in the 2nd almost no matter what though.  They may not be BPA exactly, but with need/positional importance (generally and in terms of protecting our rookie qb), I expect that’s where we land.  As I said earlier, I could see a trade back before hitting OT.  Trade back from 36 and if all of their tackles are still there at 40, they could pull the trigger, or wait for where ever they traded back to.  Adding another 3rd or 4th would be pretty big given the depth of the draft class and our plethora of needs (and having traded our 4th away - that’s a long wait until the 5th!).  JMO of course.

4 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I don't know I think WR has a good chance of being BPA as well. And the fact that we didn't address it at all despite needing a #3 and beyond tells me the FO feels the same way.

Two points:

Given the depth of this wr class, I think they could hold off until round 3 and still land a quality receiver, whereas I think we’ll see a bigger drop off in dbs (there should be quality slot corners in the 3rd, but that’s the one spot I feel ok) and DEs.  That’s my impression anyway.  With that said, I have trouble believing they go defense twice in the 2nd and if a quality receiver falls to us…

 

I think they’ll absolutely be motivated to add a receiver, but I also think our top 3 (Terry/Jahan/Jamison) are pretty good.  Ideally we land a flanker to compete with Dotson (and add depth) though.  Wouldn’t be surprised if we double dip here (2nd/3rd and again in the 5th).  On the flip side, our corners are all big question marks and Butler is penciled in at FS (yikes).  DE we can get by with what we have, but we could certainly use a stud pass rusher there and Ferrell/Fowler are on 1 year deals.

 

 

(Lol that I somehow managed to both agree and disagree with both of you.  Contrarians assemble!)

[CommanderInTheRye]

2 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

I look at it like: there are four high end legit day one starting Ts in Alt, Fashanu, Latham, and Fauga, with Latham and Fauga more RT. 

 

After that, you have a bunch of guys that are high ceiling but riskier project types. Or you have lower end guys who project more as Gs(Barton, Morgan). And then you have the 2nd round crop which isn't bad, guys like Kiran whateverhisname from Yale and Kingsley Saumatia, whom I think could be available at 36(but its risky).

 

 

Hey brother, in rereading your original draft I realized I had a bit of a senior malfunction aka old mam brain fart.

 

For some reason which defies reason, logic, or common sense, I somehow confused Troy Franklin, the wide receiver who you clearly indicated as going to the Steelers, with Tyler Guyton, the offensive tackle that you had us moving up to select late in the first round.

 

My bad.

 

That should teach me not to send a post before I've had my scrapple, spam, and egg, English muffin with Habanero Tabasco sauce, washed down with a double bourbon hot toddy (for medicinal purposes only).

 

This is exactly the kind of move I've been advocating for. We need to come out of day one with a first round tackle in addition to our future franchise qb-- that's exactly what you've done.

 

I would be elated were we able to begin our draft like this.

 

A++ job!

 

 

[e16bball]

LT is one of those positions like QB, where the league pretty much knows whether you’re capable of being a long-term starter (with a few exceptions, of course) by the time the draft rolls around. They’re not flawless in picking out who will be successful, but they’re excellent at being able to tell who won’t.

 

In other words, guys who fall past a certain point in the draft almost never turn into good long-term LT starters. 

When you look at the past 10 drafts, you’ve got maybe a total of 10-15 good starting OTs drafted after pick 40 (depending on how you define “good”). Obviously, that’s not many. And a lot of these guys are full-time RTs: Morgan Moses, Rob Havenstein, Brian O’Neill, Spencer Brown, Taylor Morton, Abraham Lucas, Dawand Jones. Which doesn’t even include guys like Trent Brown and Orlando Brown Jr., who certainly feel more like RTs, even though they’ve played both.

 

In terms of actual quality starting LTs, you’ve got Dion Dawkins, Jordan Mailata, Charles Leno, Bernhard Raimann, and the two Browns. To be generous, we can even add Rasheed Walker, who just had a nice season for GB, to take us to 7 guys in 10 years.

 

The even bigger problem for this team is that we presently need an immediate starter. None of those guys started from day one as a rookie, and 4 of the 7 (Leno, Mailata, Trent Brown, and Walker) basically redshirted their first pro season. Dawkins (who was drafted as a guard), Little Zeus (who started out at RT), and Raimann (who I mentally picture as Ivan Drago, which is the only interesting fact I have about him) all came off the bench to start about 10 games as rookies.

 

 

The point, for those who wanted me to cut to it sooner, is that NFL LTs are rare commodities — and plug and play starters at the position are even more rare. NFL teams seldom allow them to slide down the board. Which means that our answer at LT in 2024 is almost certainly not Kingsley Zissou or Notre Dame’s RT or Chris Paul’s brother or the guy from Yale who dominated future Cabinet members and poet laureates. I’m at peace with them drafting a guy like that, but it’s as a project, not an instant contributor.

 

I think the 2024 starting LT (if it isn’t Lucas) will have to come via a trade. My preferred route remains Denver pulling the plug and shipping out Garett Bolles for cap relief. If not that, I think it will have to be a trade-up. It’s too critical a need to sit around hoping someone like Jordan Morgan falls to us at 36 — and then hoping he’s actually capable.

Edited March 26 by e16bball

[Bantu]

1 minute ago, e16bball said:

LT is one of those positions like QB, where the league pretty much knows whether you’re capable of being a long-term stud (with a few exceptions, of course). They’re not flawless in picking out who will be successful, but they’re excellent at being able to tell who won’t.

 

In other words, guys who fall past a certain point in the draft almost never turn into good long-term LT starters. 

When you look at the past 10 drafts, you’ve got maybe a total of 10-15 good starting OTs drafted after pick 40 (depending on how you define “good”). Obviously, that’s not many. And a lot of these guys are full-time RTs: Morgan Moses, Rob Havenstein, Brian O’Neill, Spencer Brown, Taylor Morton, Abraham Lucas, Dawand Jones. Which doesn’t even include guys like Trent Brown and Orlando Brown Jr., who certainly feel more like RTs, even though they’ve played both.

 

In terms of actual quality starting LTs, you’ve got Dion Dawkins, Jordan Mailata, Charles Leno, Bernhard Raimann, and the two Browns. To be generous, we can even add Rasheed Walker, who had a nice season for GB, to take us to 7 guys in 10 years.

 

The even bigger problem for this team is that they presently need an immediate starter. None of those guys started from day one as a rookie, and 4 of the 7 (Leno, Mailata, Trent Brown, and Walker) basically redshirted their first pro season. Dawkins (who was drafted as a guard), Little Zeus (who started out at RT), and Raimann (who I mentally picture as Ivan Drago, which is the only interesting fact I have about him) all came off the bench to start about 10 games as rookies.

 

 

The point, for those who wanted me to cut to it sooner, is that NFL LTs are rare commodities — and plug and play starters at the position are even more rare. NFL teams seldom allow them to slide down the board. Which means that our answer at LT in 2024 is almost certainly not Kingsley Zissou or Notre Dame’s RT or Chris Paul’s brother or the guy from Yale who dominated future Cabinet members and poet laureates. I’m at peace with them drafting a guy like that, but it’s as a project, not an instant contributor.

 

I think the 2024 starting LT (if it isn’t Lucas) will have to come via a trade. My preferred route remains Denver pulling the plug and shipping out Garett Bolles for cap relief. If not that, I think it will have to be a trade-up. It’s too critical a need to sit around hoping someone like Jordan Morgan falls to us at 36 — and then hoping he’s actually capable.

Or maybe the long term answer at LT doesn't come this offseason. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[e16bball]

10 minutes ago, Bantu said:

Or maybe the long term answer at LT doesn't come this offseason. 

Perhaps. I’d settle for a short-term answer as well, if you’ve got any ideas on that front. 

 

It seems an odd management choice to invest this massive asset in a young QB, and then make almost no effort to bring aboard an actual quality LT to help secure his blind side. Given that I don’t think this staff are idiots, I’m operating under the assumption that they have some idea in place to take care of that position in a satisfactory fashion.

[Skinsinparadise]

I haven't watched him but looking at his stats he seems built in a lab for this scheme.

 

90 plus PFF grade for man

5 picks -- ball hawk

 

 

 

you can see some of his vertical-leaping skills here

 

 

 

[mhd24]

4 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Very early rudimentary mock draft including trades which I'm sure will be like maybe 2% accurate lolol

 

1. Chicago-Caleb Williams

2. Washington-Drake Maye

3. New England-Jayden Daniels

4. Arizona-Marvin Harrison jr

5. Minnesota(from LA Chargers)-JJ McCarthy

6. NY Giants-Malik Nabors

7. Tennessee-Joe Alt

8. Atlanta-Dallas Turner

9. Chicago-Rome Odunze

10. NY Jets-Taliese Fuaga

11. LA Chargers(from Minnesota)-Brock Bowers

12. Denver-Jared Verse

13. Las Vegas-Quinyon Mitchell

14. New Orleans-Ola Fashanu

15. Indianapolis-Kool Aid McKinstry

16. Seattle-Troy Fautanu

17. Jacksonville-Jackson Powers Johnson

18. Cincinatti-JC Latham

19. LA Chargers(from LA Rams)-Brian Thomas jr

20. Pittsburgh-Troy Franklin

21. Miami-Laiatu Latu

22. Philadelphia-Nate Wiggins

23. LA Rams(from LA Chargers via Minnesota)-Jer'zhan Newton

24. Dallas-Graham Barton

25. Green Bay-Byron Murphy

26. Kansas City(from Tampa Bay)-Xavier Worthy

27. Arizona-Terrion Arnold

28. Buffalo-Ladd McConkey

29. Washington(from Detroit)-Tyler Guyton

30. Baltimore-AD Mitchell

31. San Francisco-Amarius Mims

32. Tampa Bay(from Kansas City)-Cooper Dejean

 

 

Nice effort.  Couple of thoughts.  I can't see Kool-Aid being CB2.  CB1 is going to be Arnold or Mitchell (and whomever isn't is CB2).  The Jags signed Mitch Morse in FA, so C doesn't seem to be a viable option in R1.  If Pittsburgh can't get Thomas in R1, I see them going either RT, C, or CB.  

[Bantu]

19 minutes ago, e16bball said:

Perhaps. I’d settle for a short-term answer as well, if you’ve got any ideas on that front. 

 

It seems an odd management choice to invest this massive asset in a young QB, and then make almost no effort to bring aboard an actual quality LT to help secure his blind side. Given that I don’t think this staff are idiots, I’m operating under the assumption that they have some idea in place to take care of that position in a satisfactory fashion.

Not a friggin clue other than what they did with Lucas in terms of short term. OT seems a lot like QB, lots of demand and barely any inventory.  

[BayouBrave86]

On 3/24/2024 at 1:02 PM, Warhead36 said:

Well considering Daniels kinda needs stud WRs who get wide open to throw to, it would make sense to double down on the LSU connection.

The McCarthy hype absolutely has to be a massive psy op campaign by the Giants to get someone to take him top 5 so they can take Nabors. I don't see any other reasonable explanation for such a "meh" prospect to garner this much attention.

Come on man…lol

 

also I hope we stay from any LSU defensive players in the later rounds. No thank you. 

Edited March 26 by BayouBrave86

[skinny21]

1 hour ago, e16bball said:

Perhaps. I’d settle for a short-term answer as well, if you’ve got any ideas on that front. 

 

It seems an odd management choice to invest this massive asset in a young QB, and then make almost no effort to bring aboard an actual quality LT to help secure his blind side. Given that I don’t think this staff are idiots, I’m operating under the assumption that they have some idea in place to take care of that position in a satisfactory fashion.

I’m not sure I’d call it an “odd management choice” vs just not having realistic options, but to your point, it seems like it’s going to be tough and/or require some luck to adequately address the position.

And to your earlier point, odds are a 2nd round tackle isn’t going to solve the position down the road, let alone this year.  Given the depth of this class though, I could see this being a bit of an outlier year compared with the info you shared.  We’ll see.  

 

In terms of immediate, quality help, as far as I can tell it’s either trading for Bolles (or someone else), though I’m not sure if Denver wants to put themselves where we are now (though I get the cap angle for them) or trading up.

 

I’m guessing they’re more likely to take a 2nd rounder, perhaps another in the 3rd, and see how the competition plays out.  Essentially living with (most likely) subpar OT play as the young guys(s) develop, and then reexamine the position next year.  Not ideal obviously (unless we get crazy lucky), but it’s also not all about this year of course.  🤷‍♂️

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Watched a Trevin Wallace game just now, then watched his highlights.  So not too much.

 

Plays with a lot of oomph, some diving tackles, tackles low.  His athleticism jumps.  Fast and long.  

 

5.5 sacks.  Strikes me in the NFL more of a weakside LB ala our own Kentucky LB Jamin Davis.  

 

Play recognition nothing stood out, not bad, not hot, somewhere in between.   Looks like he was targeted on the 2nd level on some run plays and the O lineman mostly won that match up.

 

but overall, I can see how he can be a good pro.  Especially if they go some 3-4, i can see him playing some edge potentially.  He seem fluid when backpeddiling so he can drop into coverage well from what I saw.

 

That was my first watch by osmosis of @Going Commando's guy Thrash.   Really impressed.  Made me watch another game of his.

 

He has such a quick twitch sudden movement where he seperates with just like 2 quick steps with no wasted movement and without needing much space to do it, reminded me some of Beckham.  He varies his speeds -- accelerate and decelerates.   Wonder if he played soccer.  His moves remind me of soccer players in the context of how they seperate.

 

He's sort of the WR version to my eyes of Jonah Elliss as a DE.  That is, they are big time technicians.  Nothing raw about their games.  Fun watches.  

Edited March 26 by Skinsinparadise

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Watched a Trevin Wallace game just now, then watched his highlights.  So not too much.

 

Plays with a lot of oomph, some diving tackles, tackles low.  His athleticism jumps.  Fast and long.  

 

5.5 sacks.  Strikes me in the NFL more of a weakside LB ala our own Kentucky LB Jamin Davis.  

 

Play recognition nothing stood out, not bad, not hot, somewhere in between.   Looks like he was targeted on the 2nd level on some run plays and the O lineman mostly won that match up.

 

but overall, I can see how he can be a good pro.  Especially if they go some 3-4, i can see him playing some edge potentially.  He seem fluid when backpeddiling so he can drop into coverage well from what I saw.

 

That was my first watch by osmosis of @Going Commando's guy Thrash.   Really impressed.  Made me watch another game of his.

 

He has such a quick twitch sudden movement where he seperates with just like 2 quick steps with no wasted movement and without needing much space to do it, reminded me some of Beckham.  He varies his speeds -- accelerate and decelerates.   

 

He's sort of the WR version to me eyes of Jonah Elliss as a DE.  That is, they are big time technicians.  Nothing raw about their games.  Fun watches.  

 

Mockdraftable says his spider chart compares really highly with Jahan Dotson. 92.3% similarity in testing/measurements.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

Mockdraftable says his spider chart compares really highly with Jahan Dotson. 92.3% similarity in testing/measurements.

 

Yeah I can see Dotson in him.