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2024 Comprehensive Draft Thread

zCommander

By zCommander
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Koolblue13

Koolblue13

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Chump Bailey said:

https://www.hogshaven.com/2023/12/5/23983793/daily-slop-5-dec-23-washingtons-big-questions-are-now-all-about-2024

 

Found this on the hogshaven site: I really like Bethune. Some of the top ILB's are heading back to school. This will be a difficult ranking for the top spot because I personally do not view Trotter Jr. as an elite prospect - good not elite. In fact, I don't think there's anyone I'd consider taking higher than the 3rd with the possible exception of the Georgia LB's or Eric Gray. Cooper will be an OLB for me. 

 

This year’s linebacker class is full of potential, but lacks marque names, particularly at MIKE linebacker.

 

Grey and Cooper are about it, now that Stutsman is going back and the third round is where I'd put them. I'm also out on Trotter.

 

I'd like to get some developmental types day three through.

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Always A Commander Never A Captain

Always A Commander Never A Captain

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Watched some Christian Haynes, right guard from Conneticut.  6 '2, 313.  Only gave up 1 sack in the last two years. 

 

That dude could move.  If they are running a zone scheme, he has the athleticism for it.  You can easily see it when he was pulling or running side to side while blocking zone or hitting that 2nd level, he can move.  He anchors well mirrors, recovers, the whole gamut.  Active player, he will block multiple guys on a play when the QB extends it. 

 

 His weakness strikes me as bull rushes from dudes who can overpower him.    Wonder if he can move to center.  He seems to have the right size for that. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh that looks good, going to need to watch him. Really like his feet on that screen. Most OL don't move like that. You mention a struggle a bit with bull rush, given his stature I'd hope he could win some leverage battles and have a strong anchor. Only being 6'2 would help out Howell.

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Chump Bailey

Chump Bailey

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

I'd like to get some developmental types day three through.

 

I'm sure there will be plenty of others but Kansas State's Daniel Green might be one. He won't get drafted and will be a UDFA only because he has been plagued with injuries, but he IMO is good and a classic thumper type.  

9 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

I'm also out on Trotter

 

Glad to see I'm not alone in my concern. I'm not rooting against him but damn he is hard to figure out. 

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Chump Bailey

Chump Bailey

Posted
Posted (edited)

Later tonight I'll post former PFF analyst Mike Renner's take on the QB's from his Locked On Podcast - very good stuff. He is the only one I pay attention to. 

 

Had some time, here goes

 

Arm talent:

1. Caleb Williams - single best arm he’s ever seen not pure velocity but velocity with touch and accuracy says Milton arm is likely the strongest in the class in terms of pure strength

2. Bo Nix - really likes Nix talent off the chart high end tools figuring out the game

3. Drake Maye

4. JJ McCarthy - needs better touch but velocity is top notch

5. Penix

6. Daniels

 

Accuracy:

1. JJ - *over 70% completion percentage

2. Daniels *

3. Williams *

4. Maye

5. Nix

6. Penix

 

Decision Making: Are you putting it in harm’s way? Misdiagnosing coverage

1. Daniels

2. Nix - too many forced passes but going through progressions is very good

3. Maye

4. Williams *Fumbles are a real concern

5. Penix

6. JJ - too many 50/50 jump balls

 

Processing & Anticipation: Can you diagnose coverage effectively?

1. Nix - high checkdown rate reflects that, which is not a bad thing to Renner because he is very fast reading progressions but can predetermine too much

2. Maye - works the middle of the field very well

3. Penix

4. Daniels

5. JJ

6. Williams – first read anticipatory throw is elite - questionable footwork after first read – arm bails him out a lot

 

Pocket Poise:

1. Penix - best at avoiding sacks he’s ever seen fearless in the pocket

2. JJ - best in terms of making throws from tight corners unphased

3.Maye - similar to JJ can make tight corner throws but can drift in pocket too often

4. Williams - hangs on to the ball too long reminds Bears fans of another Justin Fields in that regard but not too concerned

5. Nix - bails out of pocket too often is a big concern worry about translating but still good in terms of decision making under duress

6. Daniels - much better this year – eye drops a concern opts to run too often

 

Playmaking Ability: plays outside the pocket

1.Williams

2. Daniels

3. Nix

4. Maye

5. JJ - needs better touch on passes

6. Penix - pure pocket passer

 

Biggest Strength * Weakness

Williams - arm * progression timing

Maye - touch * pocket drifts too much

Daniels - wheels * too reliant on them

JJ - drive throws over the middle of the field amongst the best * needs better touch

Nix - has a good all around tool set * pocket footwork

Penix - pocket presence * accuracy

Edited by Chump Bailey
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KDawg

KDawg

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, Chump Bailey said:

Later tonight I'll post former PFF analyst Mike Renner's take on the QB's from his Locked On Podcast - very good stuff. He is the only one I pay attention to. 

 

Had some time, here goes

 

Arm talent:

1. Caleb Williams - single best arm he’s ever seen not pure velocity but velocity with touch and accuracy says Milton arm is likely the strongest in the class in terms of pure strength

2. Bo Nix - really likes Nix talent off the chart high end tools figuring out the game

3. Drake Maye

4. JJ McCarthy - needs better touch but velocity is top notch

5. Penix

6. Daniels

 

Accuracy:

1. JJ - *over 70% completion percentage

2. Daniels *

3. Williams *

4. Maye

5. Nix

6. Penix

 

Decision Making: Are you putting it in harm’s way? Misdiagnosing coverage

1. Daniels

2. Nix - too many forced passes but going through progressions is very good

3. Maye

4. Williams *Fumbles are a real concern

5. Penix

6. JJ - too many 50/50 jump balls

 

Processing & Anticipation: Can you diagnose coverage effectively?

1. Nix - high checkdown rate reflects that, which is not a bad thing to Renner because he is very fast reading progressions but can predetermine too much

2. Maye - works the middle of the field very well

3. Penix

4. Daniels

5. JJ

6. Williams – first read anticipatory throw is elite - questionable footwork after first read – arm bails him out a lot

 

Pocket Poise:

1. Penix - best at avoiding sacks he’s ever seen fearless in the pocket

2. JJ - best in terms of making throws from tight corners unphased

3.Maye - similar to JJ can make tight corner throws but can drift in pocket too often

4. Williams - hangs on to the ball too long reminds Bears fans of another Justin Fields in that regard but not too concerned

5. Nix - bails out of pocket too often is a big concern worry about translating but still good in terms of decision making under duress

6. Daniels - much better this year – eye drops a concern opts to run too often

 

Playmaking Ability: plays outside the pocket

1.Williams

2. Daniels

3. Nix

4. Maye

5. JJ - needs better touch on passes

6. Penix - pure pocket passer

 

Biggest Strength * Weakness

Williams - arm * progression timing

Maye - touch * pocket drifts too much

Daniels - wheels * too reliant on them

JJ - drive throws over the middle of the field amongst the best * needs better touch

Nix - has a good all around tool set * pocket footwork

Penix - pocket presence * accuracy

 

 

This largely aligns with what I've been seeing/saying as well. 

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 12/15/2023 at 6:29 AM, Chump Bailey said:

Later tonight I'll post former PFF analyst Mike Renner's take on the QB's from his Locked On Podcast - very good stuff. He is the only one I pay attention to. 

 

Had some time, here goes

 

 

I watched it.  He LOVES this draft class for QB.  he believes its a good one to find one.

 

What stood out is he loves Bo Nix.  His PFF and regular stats are sick.   I mentioned it on the QB thread while taking barbs at PFF that I like PFF's college draft guys better than the pros.

 

Among other things what made me watch Ivan Pace early last year was his PFF scores.  They were insanely high.  I didn't even know who the dude was but it made me watch.  Another example is they dug Brock Purdy unlike most mock drafters who didn't care for him.

 

They aren't always right but they can be interesting in some players.  So in short its making me carve out some time soon to watch Nix.

 

 

Here are some stats on the QB which I put on another thread

 

 

 

Screen Shot 2023-12-14 at 7.50.47 PM.png

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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KDawg

KDawg

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I watched it.  He LOVES this draft class for QB.  he believes its a good one to find one.

 

What stood out is he loves Bo Nix.  His PFF and regular stats are sick.   I mentioned it on the QB thread while taking barbs at PFF that I like PFF's college draft guys better than the pros.

 

Among other things what made me watch Ivan Pace early last year was his PFF scores.  They were insanely high.  I didn't even know who the dude was but it made me watch.  Another example is they dug Brock Purdy unlike most mock drafters who didn't care for him.

 

They aren't always right but they can be interesting in some players.  So in short its making me carve out some time soon to watch Nix.

 

 

Here are some stats on the QB which I put on another thread

 

 

 

Screen Shot 2023-12-14 at 7.50.47 PM.png

 

Bo Nix looks like the best pro ready QB of the group to my eye. I don't think he has the same ceiling as Williams, Maye or Daniels, but I think his baseline is more pro ready than the other guys and it's not particularly close.

 

I think this is a really good QB class as far as depth, but not as far as high end "franchise" quality prospects.

 

I think Williams, Maye and Daniels have ridiculous ceilings... but I think their floors are all mediocre or worse.

 

Bo Nix is an older prospect, so it's hard to judge that sometimes. Same thing with Penix (though he adds a significant injury history).

 

Rattler is a moderately aged QB prospect for the pros with a ton of experience but a history of not showing up in the big moments. 

 

Pratt is unproven against quality competition, but he stands out as a quality passer.

 

McCarthy stinks imo.

 

Milroe is a lesser Lamar Jackson as a passer but a really good runner. 

 

These dudes all have reasons they can pan out or flame out at the next level. 

 

But to the point I've been making: The top of the class is significantly oversold in my opinion. 

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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Posted (edited)

Watched 3 more games of Maye, 2 more of Daniels.

 

I think I've seen enough to finally give an opinion on Maye.  I think i slightly prefer Daniels but in a vaccum I'd take either in the top 5.  But clearly its not a vaccum.  Its apples to apples to Howell.  So it requires some more thought on that front.

 

IMO Maye's superpower is quick processing and vision and a quick release.  He operates on an NFL speed.  I don't think he will need much of an adjustment to the speed of the NFL for that reason.  His clock seems to move fast in his head.

 

He makes some wicked throws.  Beauties.  Especially with the deep ball.  Sometimes off platform.  I watched now 5 games of his and he had his share of wow throws.    His accuracy on the 2nd level especially in between the numbers is really good.  He has good mobility and is willing to use it.  He's fast for his size.  On that count based on his build he reminds me of Daniel Jones as a runner.

 

I also liked that he had a crap roster around him last year.  The blocking was "meh" and his weapons were "meh".  Some WR drops when I was watching.  I liked North Carolina's backs.  As I mentioned weeks back I like Nesbit their TE.  I loved Downs last year.  But no one really hit me exciting this year.

 

Now as to what I didn't like.  His accuracy on out routes is inconsistent.   Doesn't have the best touch on flat routes and doesn't always hit his Wrs in stride to set them up for YAC.  Like Howell ironically he pushes it sometimes too much as to contested catches and throwing into tight windows where the decision making isn't hot.   Overall his accuracy is a bit streaky.   He needs to put a bit more air on his deep ball IMO even though he throws a nice one.   He rushes his throws some and its easy to see in some of those cases he doesn't align his footwork-shoulder to the target.  In the pocket, he sometimes doesn't feel pressure and isn't as elusive as I'd like on that front -- but not bad either.

 

I get the Herbert comparisons to some extent.  Herbet's accuracy also could be hot and cold in college at times. 

 

I like Maye.    Why would I take Daniels over him by a hair?  i like Daniels accuracy a bit more on the first level.  I think even though Daniels has more time to throw than Maye typically, you can see sometimes when the pocket breaks down Daniels spin out of pressure Spiderman like -- I think that's part of the reason why the Lamar Jackson comps aren't crazy for him.  And Daniels super weapon hits me more than Drake's super weapon -- that is, Daniels' mobility is truly special.  

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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RWJ

RWJ

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3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I watched it.  He LOVES this draft class for QB.  he believes its a good one to find one.

 

What stood out is he loves Bo Nix.  His PFF and regular stats are sick.   I mentioned it on the QB thread while taking barbs at PFF that I like PFF's college draft guys better than the pros.

 

Among other things what made me watch Ivan Pace early last year was his PFF scores.  They were insanely high.  I didn't even know who the dude was but it made me watch.  Another example is they dug Brock Purdy unlike most mock drafters who didn't care for him.

 

They aren't always right but they can be interesting in some players.  So in short its making me carve out some time soon to watch Nix.

 

 

I like Nix a lot too, SIP.  He produces and makes a way under pressure.  He's built somewhat similarly to Howell.  He's an inch taller but weight a bit less.  

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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One other thing abourt Daniels.  I watched interviews with his LSU coaches, they said he's their early and works late.  Good worth ethic.  And he worked to add weight and muscle in the previous off season.  I gather he's do it again for the combine.  If he puts on another 10 pounds of muscle I think it would go along way for him. 

 

Watching more LSU, had me watch Malik Nabers.  I know @Going Commando is a big Nabers guy.  Nabers is growing on me ina. big way.  He's just always open.  Beats zone.  Beats man.   1st level and 3rd level especially.  Great hands.  contested catches.  YAC.  speed.  Some wicked double moves.   He has everything.  He comes off watching him as a bit of a Diva noticing him at times when the camera pans to him on the sidelines and watching his loud TD celebrations.  But maybe some diva is needed here -- with all the quiet boy scouts we got on this team.

 

As for receiver #2 for me tough call between him and Odunze.  Odunze's ball tracking ability, balance, hands etc is in that style of Marvin Harrison albiet not as good.   And he brings size-height, too.

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RWJ

RWJ

Posted
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15 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

One other thing abourt Daniels.  I watched interviews with his LSU coaches, they said he's their early and works late.  Good worth ethic.  And he worked to add weight and muscle in the previous off season.  I gather he's do it again for the combine.  If he puts on another 10 pounds of muscle I think it would go along way for him. 

 

Watching more LSU, had me watch Malik Nabers.  I know @Going Commando is a big Nabers guy.  Nabers is growing on me ina. big way.  He's just always open.  Beats zone.  Beats man.   1st level and 3rd level especially.  Great hands.  contested catches.  YAC.  speed.  Some wicked double moves.   He has everything.  He comes off watching him as a bit of a Diva noticing him at times when the camera pans to him on the sidelines and watching his loud TD celebrations.  But maybe some diva is needed here -- with all the quiet boy scouts we got on this team.

 

As for receiver #2 for me tough call between him and Odunze.  Odunze's ball tracking ability, balance, hands etc is in that style of Marvin Harrison albiet not as good.   And he brings size-height, too.

You know Daniels is my dude!  To me, he has special qualities that the others don't have with the elite speed plus he can do most, if not all the other QBs can.  JMO of course.  :) 

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KDawg

KDawg

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Posted
19 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

One other thing abourt Daniels.  I watched interviews with his LSU coaches, they said he's their early and works late.  Good worth ethic.  And he worked to add weight and muscle in the previous off season.  I gather he's do it again for the combine.  If he puts on another 10 pounds of muscle I think it would go along way for him. 

 

Watching more LSU, had me watch Malik Nabers.  I know @Going Commando is a big Nabers guy.  Nabers is growing on me ina. big way.  He's just always open.  Beats zone.  Beats man.   1st level and 3rd level especially.  Great hands.  contested catches.  YAC.  speed.  Some wicked double moves.   He has everything.  He comes off watching him as a bit of a Diva noticing him at times when the camera pans to him on the sidelines and watching his loud TD celebrations.  But maybe some diva is needed here -- with all the quiet boy scouts we got on this team.

 

As for receiver #2 for me tough call between him and Odunze.  Odunze's ball tracking ability, balance, hands etc is in that style of Marvin Harrison albiet not as good.   And he brings size-height, too.


I have Harrison, Legette, Nabers, Odunze right now. 

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, KDawg said:


I have Harrison, Legette, Nabers, Odunze right now. 

 

lol, I forgot about Legette.  I highlighted him hard 2 weeks ago.  Loved him.  I know you love him and put him #2 from the jump.

 

 

I keep seeing Coleman, Nabers, Odune as the top 3 after Harrison in most mocks so at times I forget about Legette.  I need to watch them all back to back.  But yeah Legette as I mentioned reminds me of Metcalf.  Stacked draft for receiver.

19 minutes ago, RWJ said:

You know Daniels is my dude!  To me, he has special qualities that the others don't have with the elite speed plus he can do most, if not all the other QBs can.  JMO of course.  :) 

 

lol, but since you came on about a week after I highlighted him in the QB thread.  I had to take all the hits on that thread for Daniels.  I need you to go on that QB thread and argue with people like I did and take some of the pain. :ols:

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Chump Bailey

Chump Bailey

Posted
Posted

Jesus, I need to get a life...

Can't look at anymore prospects - cast as wide as net as my sanity would allow :)

 

*Jamon Dumas-Johnson Georgia would be #1 has entered the transfer portal 

 

Top 20 ILB's

 

1. Cedric Gray UNC

2. Trevin Wallace Kentucky

3. Tommy Eichenberg Ohio State

4. Ty’Ron Hopper Missouri

5. Jeremiah Trotter Jr.

6. Darius Muasau UCLA *Best closing speed to my eyes

7. Jaylan Ford Texas

8. Junior Colson Michigan

9. Smael Mondon Jr. Georgia

10. Jay Higgins Iowa

11. Tyrice Knight UTEP

12. Tyreem Powell Rutgers

13. MJ Tafisi Utah State

14. Tatum Bethune Florida State

15. Johnny Hodges TCU *Injured not sure of draft status but the hell with it 

16. Steele Chambers Ohio State

17. Jason Henderson Old Dominion *Outstanding reaction timing

18.Omar Speights LSU

19. Dallas Gant Toledo

20.Power Echols North Carolina

 

*Sleepers/Risers

 

David Ubenda Texas

Michael Barrett Michigan

Cal Haladay Michigan State

Nathaniel Watson Mississippi State

Eugene Asanta Auburn

Edefuan Ulofoshio Washington *Could be a very good UFDA signing 

Daniel Green Kansas State *Could be a very good UFDA signing

Marist Liufau ILB  Notre Dame *Needs to test well to be a riser - very well

 

 

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bird_1972

bird_1972

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, Chump Bailey said:

Jesus, I need to get a life...

Can't look at anymore prospects - cast as wide as net as my sanity would allow :)

 

*Jamon Dumas-Johnson Georgia would be #1 has entered the transfer portal 

 

Top 20 ILB's

 

1. Cedric Gray UNC

2. Trevin Wallace Kentucky

3. Tommy Eichenberg Ohio State

4. Ty’Ron Hopper Missouri

5. Jeremiah Trotter Jr.

6. Darius Muasau UCLA *Best closing speed to my eyes

7. Jaylan Ford Texas

8. Junior Colson Michigan

9. Smael Mondon Jr. Georgia

10. Jay Higgins Iowa

11. Tyrice Knight UTEP

12. Tyreem Powell Rutgers

13. MJ Tafisi Utah State

14. Tatum Bethune Florida State

15. Johnny Hodges TCU *Injured not sure of draft status but the hell with it 

16. Steele Chambers Ohio State

17. Jason Henderson Old Dominion *Outstanding reaction timing

18.Omar Speights LSU

19. Dallas Gant Toledo

20.Power Echols North Carolina

 

*Sleepers/Risers

 

David Ubenda Texas

Michael Barrett Michigan

Cal Haladay Michigan State

Nathaniel Watson Mississippi State

Eugene Asanta Auburn

Edefuan Ulofoshio Washington *Could be a very good UFDA signing 

Daniel Green Kansas State *Could be a very good UFDA signing

Marist Liufau ILB  Notre Dame *Needs to test well to be a riser - very well

 

 

 

Where do you see Cedrick Gray going in the draft?

 

I think our LBs need an overhaul but worry about spending too high a draft pick to do it.

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