2024 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

i am not ready to rank anyone yet.  Got way too much to watch.  But i based on what i've watched, i can tell i am not going to be as in synch that i often am with some regulars here on this years crop.  

 

Among other things, i am much higher on Alt.   But I am not interested in debating much yet.  I am much better at that when I can apples to apples players more, and I won't get there until i watch more.

Edited December 3, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

13 hours ago, KDawg said:

I’m going to go against the grain. If we’re picking top 5ish and take Bowers I think it is a MAJOR mistake. He’s a generational talent at tight end. Agreed. But he’s a tight end. Yes, he’d improve this team. But is he the biggest improvement for this team? I think we can get a productive TE easier than a T or G or even a stud WR…

 

I definitiely don't think it would be a "MAJOR" mistake.  I think Bowers's skill set, YAC ability, reminds me some of Laporta on that front, it tends to project to the NFL.  I only have one beef with taking a TE that looks that level great in collage -- injuries.  it's such an injury prone position.

 

I'd be good with taking Bowers.  I'd also be good with not taking Bowers.  It's not a pund the table position for me one way or another.    I disagree with those (not you) who say we have to take a LT.  Yet, i am also higher on Fashanu and Alt than most here.   So i am also good with the idea but not from the context if its a must.  I haven't watched any of the edges yet.  But it would annoy me to go for a D lineman #1 pick for the 5th time here.  Even though I am a BPA guy.   It's an offense driven league yet we've played it the opposite way and it hasn't worked.

 

Only thing I am hardcore on is take Marvin Harrison if he falls to our pick or trade down if you can get a big haul.  I watched some Nabers yesterday hoping to love him as much as Harrison, and it didn't happen.  

Edited December 3, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

26 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

i am not ready to rank anyone yet.  Got way too much to watch.  But i based on what i've watched, i can tell i am not going to be as in synch that i often am with some regulars here on this years crop.  

 

Among other things, i am much higher on Alt.   But I am not interested in debating much yet.  I am much better at that when I can apples to apples players more, and I won't get there until i watch more.

Alt, after more views is my OT2 now. Mims fell. Too injury prone. Latham moved up, too, great game yesterday.

 

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I definitiely don't think it would be a "MAJOR" mistake.  I think Bowers's skill set, YAC ability, reminds me some of Laporta on that front, it tends to project to the NFL.  I only have one beef with taking a TE that looks that level great in collage -- injuries.  it's such an injury prone position.

 

I'd be good with taking Bowers.  I'd also be good with not taking Bowers.  It's not a pund the table position for me one way or another.    I disagree with those (not you) who say we have to take a LT.  Yet, i am also higher on Fashanu and Alt than most here.   So i am also good with the idea but not from the context if its a must.  I haven't watched any of the edges yet.  But it would annoy me to go for a D lineman #1 pick for the 5th time here.  Even though I am a BPA guy.   It's an offense driven league yet we've played it the opposite way and it hasn't worked.

 

Only thing I am hardcore on is take Marvin Harrison if he falls to our pick or trade down if you can get a big haul.  I watched some Nabers yesterday hoping to love him as much as Harrison, and it didn't happen.  

 

Bower’s is injured now. Not a huge deal, and he played through it. But that’s all part of the soup on why I think taking him at 5 is a major mistake. Tight ends don’t pan out traditionally in that spot and I don’t care to test the theory.

 

With you on Harrison.

 

Harrison is really the only guy outside of Fashanu/Alt that id take in the top 5. If we aren’t going OL there I’d try my best to trade back and get more picks to fill the roster with high end talent. 
 

I really like Jared Verse. I would not draft him unless we had an extra one to spend.

Edited December 3, 2023 by KDawg

[Chump Bailey]

This does not look like a very good TE class to me but have only taken a cursory look. Jaheim Bell looks like a very poor man's version of Gerald Everett to me thus far. Cade Stover, however, I do like.

 

Just dipping my toe into the TE pool though. 

[Going Commando]

I think Harrison and Bowers are going to be the third and fourth picks unless Jayden Daniels rockets up the board.  I also think we win a stretch game or two and pick somewhere around 7 or 8.  Whether we'd pick Bowers or Harrison is probably going to end up being academic.

 

I also think Nabers will probably be off the board by our pick, and that Verse might be too, although for some reason his draft stock is way too low on most sites right now.  This dude is a top ten lock and I see a lot of places with him in the teens.

 

I think our BPA at 7 or 8 options are most likely to be Dallas Turner and Olu Fashanu and Chop Robinson.  But I am hoping Verse is still there.

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

Harrison, Williams, Maye, Verse and Kool-Aid.

 

I don't have a feel for McKinstry's stock yet,   I saw he got a concussion yesterday, but I don't know how much time he'll miss.  Hopefully he's back for bowl season, because I'd like another shot to see him live.  It's harder to get a feel for cornerback stock from cut ups than for other positions.

[KDawg]

5 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

I think Harrison and Bowers are going to be the third and fourth picks unless Jayden Daniels rockets up the board.  I also think we win a stretch game or two and pick somewhere around 7 or 8.  Whether we'd pick Bowers or Harrison is probably going to end up being academic.

 

I also think Nabers will probably be off the board by our pick, and that Verse might be too, although for some reason his draft stock is way too low on most sites right now.  This dude is a top ten lock and I see a lot of places with him in the teens.

 

I think our BPA at 7 or 8 options are most likely to be Dallas Turner and Olu Fashanu and Chop Robinson.  But I am hoping Verse is still there.

 

I don't have a feel for McKinstry's stock yet,   I saw he got a concussion yesterday, but I don't know how much time he'll miss.  Hopefully he's back for bowl season, because I'd like another shot to see him live.  It's harder to get a feel for cornerback stock from cut ups than for other positions.

Corners are a real pain in the ass to evaluate. 

[Chump Bailey]

Have not done a deep dive into the WR class yet either and am way behind a lot of you certainly but the top 3 based on a very cursory look to my eyes is about 98 percent solidified:

 

1. Marvin Harrison Jr.

2. Nabers

3. Rome Odunze

 

Damn these guys are good. 

[Going Commando]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

Corners are a real pain in the ass to evaluate. 

Yep.  The only time I can get a really strong take from the broadcast views is when the corner either does really bad or really good.  For example last year during the Michigan game, I was absolutely blown away by Devin Witherspoon.  He took that game over and almost willed a vastly inferior Illinois team to a win, and you got this really palpable feeling that this is the best kid on the field.  But you only get that when it's a once in a blue moon corner who is capable of taking games over from the spot, otherwise they are off camera and just kind of doing their jobs.  That's what I'm hoping to see with Kool Aid if he plays in the CFP because I missed a lot of Bama games this year.

[Warhead36]

Not much love for Keon Coleman? Love his size. I wouldnt take him top 5 or 10 but if somehow we traded down a bunch Id think about it. We need a real behemoth of a WR.

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Not much love for Keon Coleman? Love his size. I wouldnt take him top 5 or 10 but if somehow we traded down a bunch Id think about it. We need a real behemoth of a WR.

Xavier Legette.

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Among other things, i am much higher on Alt.   But I am not interested in debating much yet.  I am much better at that when I can apples to apples players more, and I won't get there until i watch more.

Alt is the player I'm going to have to disagree with everyone on this year.  Whatever the opposite of pounding the table for a player is, he's my guy for that this year.  Kind of like Robert Nkemdiche, Darron Lee, Blake Freeland, Mac Jones, Mekhi Becton, Paulson Adebo, Grant Delpit, Devin Bush, Garrett Bradburdy, Alex Leatherwood, Derek Barnett, Reuben Foster, OJ Howard, etc.  Guys where I felt their draft stock was way too high after I watched them, and that it set off alarm bells for me.  Sometimes I'm wrong.  I didn't like Rashan Gary or DJ Moore and they ended up being good.  Most players who I don't love I'm agnostic in rather than actively disliking.  But the ones where that's not the case and I actively want to pound the table against them, most of those guys ended up being bad in the NFL too.

 

I've watched Alt a couple of times now in order to try and see what others see in him, and I don't see it at all.  The more I see of him, the less I like, and the more dug in I am getting.  I don't think he's good at all.  I'm short, I don't think he has any high quality traits, and that he actually has below average strength, length, flexibility, and explosiveness.  I think the only part of the game where he is competent is as a run blocker, and I don't think he's dominant there by any stretch.  I think he sucks in pass pro, and his lack of length and power are major limitations that are gonna get worse for him in the NFL.  He got embarrassed by Louisville and was completely overmatched by Tuimaloau.  Tuimaloau is what his routine competition at the next level is going to look like.  Contrast that to the way Skoronski dominated Tuimaloau last year, and then consider that Skoronski was a middling first round OL prospect in a bad OL class who had to kick inside to guard.

 

Alt is the biggest emperor's new clothes player in the class for me this year, and he would be the most disappointing way to use our first round pick for me.  I think he's gonna be a bust.

9 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Not much love for Keon Coleman? Love his size. I wouldnt take him top 5 or 10 but if somehow we traded down a bunch Id think about it. We need a real behemoth of a WR.

 

The lack of productivity is an issue for me.  I think KDawg and Chump Bailey are right, Odunze and Leggette are much better bets for WRs in our likely draft range.

[Chump Bailey]

16 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Not much love for Keon Coleman? Love his size. I wouldnt take him top 5 or 10 but if somehow we traded down a bunch Id think about it. We need a real behemoth of a WR.

 

Coleman I've not gotten a good feel on. Apparently scouts are drooling over him - don't dislike him off the top of my head good body control and hands but he is in a gray area of sorts for me right now. I prefer Texas WR Adonai Mitchell over Coleman gun to my head right now.

[Going Commando]

Wanted to give a take on Dallas Turner now that I've watched some cut ups and say that I think there is really really good clay there to work with.  I had a positive notion about him going in because he popped so much when I watched Will Anderson, and that take held up for me upon a closer look.

 

My base line take away is that if you like Micah Parsons's game, then you will probably like Turner.  The type of athleticism they share is so special and rare, and it's the foundation of their game.  And Parsons being such a big hit in the NFL has paved the way for me to ease some of the concerns I have about what they lack in their game--a developed pas rush move set.  Like Parsons, Turner does almost all of his winning via tremendous speed and speed to power conversion, as well as freakishly good agility.  He doesn't use his hands to rush and rarely needs to.  His first step looks even better than Robinson's, and his closing speed is easily the best in the class.  He tracks down ball carriers in the backfield and makes splashy, violent plays way off his frame in the same way Parsons did.  Ultra athletic stuff.  Don't be shocked if he runs 4.4s at the combine.  And he's also played a ton of games and a ton of snaps and there is a lot of production for high end defenses on his resume.

 

He's going to be a stand up rusher in the NFL like Parsons is, which probably puts him at LBer.  My question is, will he fit into our next defense?  I would hate to draft him and then have him playing some dumb role where he's spending a lot of time in coverage as a regular LBer.  But I'm also not sure if he's capable of being a full time three point stance DE at about 6'4 245.

[Hogs86]

If we stay at pick #5 or move up to #4 Fashanu Penn State or Joe Alt ND are my picks

 

Edited December 3, 2023 by Hogs86

[Skinsinparadise]

25 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

 

I've watched Alt a couple of times now in order to try and see what others see in him, and I don't see it at all.  The more I see of him, the less I like, and the more dug in I am getting.  I don't think he's good at all.  I'm short, I don't think he has any high quality traits, and that he actually has below average strength, length, flexibility, and explosiveness.  I think the only part of the game where he is competent is as a run blocker, and I don't think he's dominant there by any stretch.  I think he sucks in pass pro, and his lack of length and power are major limitations that are gonna get worse for him in the NFL.  He got embarrassed by Louisville and was completely overmatched by Tuimaloau.  Tuimaloau is what his routine competition at the next level is going to look like.  Contrast that to the way Skoronski dominated Tuimaloau last year, and then consider that Skoronski was a middling first round OL prospect in a bad OL class who had to kick inside to guard.

 

Alt is the biggest emperor's new clothes player in the class for me this year, and he would be the most disappointing way to use our first round pick for me.  I think he's gonna be a bust.

 

The lack of productivity is an issue for me.  I think KDawg and Chump Bailey are right, Odunze and Leggette are much better bets for WRs in our likely draft range.

Lack of length?  He looks long to me. If anything above average length. I just took a look at some web sites on this. No one knows his length yet but they referenced him have “elite” length let alone him having below average length,

.

How many O lineman you can think of who is 6’8 but is also short armed? 
 

I think Alt is very good in pass protect and is good as a run blocker, 

 

His stats are insane as to sacks and pressures given up. His intangibles are very high based on what I read. Super safe prospect IMO. High floor player

 

My only concern is his lanky upper body and his bend considering his height. But to me while he’s not my top want he would be a very safe and good pick 

[clskinsfan]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

i am not ready to rank anyone yet.  Got way too much to watch.  But i based on what i've watched, i can tell i am not going to be as in synch that i often am with some regulars here on this years crop.  

 

Among other things, i am much higher on Alt.   But I am not interested in debating much yet.  I am much better at that when I can apples to apples players more, and I won't get there until i watch more.

I have Alt as my 3rd tackle. But really it is personal choice. The guy made incredible improvements this year. He will be a bookend stud somewhere for sure. His run blocking is an issue. But so is Fashanu's. The reason I rank Fashanu higher is I think he has a much higher upside. Alt may be about where he is going to be the rest of his career. But that is a very good player. 

[Chump Bailey]

Not ready to rank anyone in the Edge or OLB tweener type class yet but this is someone I recall from last season.

 

OLB Auburn Jalen McLeod transfer from App State. I think he will be a bargain for some team.

[clskinsfan]

47 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Not much love for Keon Coleman? Love his size. I wouldnt take him top 5 or 10 but if somehow we traded down a bunch Id think about it. We need a real behemoth of a WR.

I like Coleman A LOT. the one negative is his drop rate. Which usually carries over to the NFL. 

[Chump Bailey]

Also making it hard to evaluate players is it seems like every damn video was shot from the freaking Space Station with a phone. 

[DWinzit]

25 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

Wanted to give a take on Dallas Turner now that I've watched some cut ups and say that I think there is really really good clay there to work with.  I had a positive notion about him going in because he popped so much when I watched Will Anderson, and that take held up for me upon a closer look.

 

My base line take away is that if you like Micah Parsons's game, then you will probably like Turner.  The type of athleticism they share is so special and rare, and it's the foundation of their game.  And Parsons being such a big hit in the NFL has paved the way for me to ease some of the concerns I have about what they lack in their game--a developed pas rush move set.  Like Parsons, Turner does almost all of his winning via tremendous speed and speed to power conversion, as well as freakishly good agility.  He doesn't use his hands to rush and rarely needs to.  His first step looks even better than Robinson's, and his closing speed is easily the best in the class.  He tracks down ball carriers in the backfield and makes splashy, violent plays way off his frame in the same way Parsons did.  Ultra athletic stuff.  Don't be shocked if he runs 4.4s at the combine.  And he's also played a ton of games and a ton of snaps and there is a lot of production for high end defenses on his resume.

 

He's going to be a stand up rusher in the NFL like Parsons is, which probably puts him at LBer.  My question is, will he fit into our next defense?  I would hate to draft him and then have him playing some dumb role where he's spending a lot of time in coverage as a regular LBer.  But I'm also not sure if he's capable of being a full time three point stance DE at about 6'4 245.

I only paid minor attention so far to Turner and he hasn't jumped out like Parsons did at Penn State. After your build up I am more intrigued to dig into him more, If he falls into a slightly lesser player than Parsons as a disruptor, and the DC understands how to use him, I am all in with drafting Turner.

 

I am really more into the improvement of the OL early. I am on the Fashanu over Alt team. Would love for us to come away with Fashanu and Fuaga (Or Latham with his dominance last night). If that isn't possible one of those guys and Beebe, who I believe will not make it to the 2nd round, would also be tremendous with a vet C. 

 

Verse got some love here last night but how about Fiske? What a show the two of them put on

Edited December 3, 2023 by DWinzit

[clskinsfan]

Tons of love for Verse in here today. I like him. His get off is elite. His bend is not. And he seems stiff at times to me. He is about identical size wise to Turner. Who I think is a better overall player. But I prefer Latu to both of them. His health concerns may be real. And he could fall because of it. My top 3 right now are:

 

1) Latu

2) Turner

3) Verse

 

They are all top half of the first round guys IMO. Latu might be able to be stolen later because of his neck. 

10 minutes ago, Chump Bailey said:

Also making it hard to evaluate players is it seems like every damn video was shot from the freaking Space Station with a phone. 

I actually prefer team game film that shows the entire field. It is just impossible to get your hands on it.

[KDawg]

The committee got it right, imo.

 

Michigan vs. Alabama

Washington vs. Texas

[FlyBigBeard]

27 minutes ago, KDawg said:

The committee got it right, imo.

 

Michigan vs. Alabama

Washington vs. Texas

Naw, FSU got robbed. Alabama should be out and FSU in regardless of them not having their best player on the field for the rest of this season. 

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, FlyBigBeard said:

Naw, FSU got robbed. Alabama should be out and FSU in regardless of them not having their best player on the field for the rest of this season. 

Strength of schedule and the injury criteria, which has been there since the inception, say otherwise. They got it right by criteria. If FSU played Bama tomorrow Bama would be the favorite. Having said that, the criteria stinks and the fact they dragged their feet on playoff expansion is crazy.

[Koolblue13]

This draft is odd for us. I think any pick from 4-8 is predetermined. If we're at the top of that is Fanashu or Alt, then Bowers, then Verse and maybe Harrison is there at 4.