Welcome to the Commanders Emmanuel Forbes CB Mississippi State

[Koolblue13]

Forbes pick = Davis pick

[Going Commando]

43 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Forbes pick = Davis pick

 

Nah, Forbes is the Dotson pick all over again.  A fringe first rounder who is undersized, but has some truly special traits/intangibles that make him more than the sum of his parts.

 

Jamin wasn't even a fringe first rounder in his college film.  He was more like a third rounder that rocketed into the first based entirely upon his work outs and try hard effort.  He's got all of the physical gifts that little dudes like Forbes and Dotson lack, king size and elite speed and stamina and explosiveness and power.  But none of their instincts and native talent for the game.   He is nowhere near as smart as them and everything comes harder and more slowly for him.

 

I think Forbes is going to be a good one, and he's probably gonna have like five picks as a rookie if he can stay on the field.  But he's already had two injuries since camp, and that's not encouraging.  I know I saw him get injured last week and that it is the reason he only played like 20 snaps, and I think it's weird that nobody covering the team has reported on what happened.

[Redwards]

20 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I just looked at Pro Football References Stats.  If they are right and the stats are meaningful than Ron Rivera and Del Rio are some of the biggest buffoons in the NFL.  In their defense I don't think they are but PFR has some odd stuff. 

 

A.  According to Keim, this team sees Forbes as a work in progress and is right now their third best corner and not a starter just yet.  Well, according to PFR this regime are idiots for thinking that considering according to their stats St. Juste has been beaten like a drum.  QBs have almost a 100 QB rating against St. Juste and are completing 73% of their passes.  Shouldn't St. Juste not Forbes be the dude on the bench, then?

 

B.  According to Keim, Forbes hasn't been good against the run.  I gather as always he got that from the team.  PFF has shown him also being awful against the run.  But no worries, PFR, has Forbes with 0 missed tackles.  Nada.  Nothing.   If you want missed tackles don't look at Forbes, look at just about everyone else in the secondary

 

C.  Curl based on their stats is atrocious in coverage.  i know based on past numbers from PFR they considered Curl somewhere between bad and atrocious for most of his career with 2 out of his three seasons with an AV of 4.  Apparently according to PFR his atrocious play continues. 

 

D.  As great of a season Fuller is having according to various narratives and stats.  Apparently according to PFR its not as good as Forbes.   So if Forbes  -- their best cover guy according to PFR and is no liability against the run -- wouldn't Rivera and Del Rio have to be fools with giving him 40% of the reps and he's  not right now a starter? 

 

I'll give PFR they really really love Forbes across the board and its funny how low they think of some others on this roster.  But i've never been much of a fan of their generalizations of players.  I do like to look at some of their stats though.    If I really did buy into their stats -- I'd think Belichick and Tryeek Hill among others are clowns for touting Gonzalez and Rivera-Del-Rio would be the biggest clowns for not starting a stud corner and instead starting one train wreck of a CB and another who is good but apparently is no Forbes

SIP, do you think I'm correct in assuming that the Harris Group have real, solid football evaluators watching these games and taking notes?  Evaluators that are not part of Ron's FO?  People that are highly aware of the past drafts and FA choices, and the mounting examples of what could have been and how the current regime truly hasn't been smart or creative enough to turn us into an Eagles elite team?  Surely they have to see that the systemic issues Ron's team and FO have goes beyond just QB.  

 

I've got to believe that's the only way as an owner you're going to get real, solid details about the shortcomings of this FO vs. just Harris watching games and giving it the eye test.  

 

I've said this in a previous post, but I'm seriously terrified that Ron does just enough this year to camouflage his regime's serious shortcomings and gets signed to an extension.  I'm being serious when I say that there is no part of me that sees us moving into the upper echelon of teams with Ron and his FO running this organization.  That includes Ron only being the head coach.  We're just not making meaningful headway; we're not nearly better enough in Ron's fourth year than we were in his first.  Plain and simple: it's just not happening - not working to the degree that it must.  

 

Ron and crew are the last mediocre vestiges of the Snyder era, and personally, they are keeping me back from being seriously and emotionally invested as a fan.  And it's because they just are not in any way good enough.  Once they are gone, for me, I'm 100% invested again.  It's not a conscious decision to be made.  Until they are gone, and the last of the Snyder connective tissue is clipped, I just can't fully embrace anything the way I so desperately want to.  

Edited September 29, 2023 by Redwards

[RandyHolt]

3 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Forbes pick = Davis pick

Martin pick = Mathis pick

 

Speaking of picks I think its prudent to not draft DBs expecting INTs from them. There is usually a reason they are on defense. Their hands suck. A full time DB sees ~500 pass attempts a year on D yet a great DB can only expect to get 5 INTs in the low INT era. That's all code for: never draft a CB because they have good hands. Ballhawk is more like a chickenhawk these days.

 

I would much rather target 1st round corners that can play inside out so they can travel and handle shutdown duty. I was hoping he would be assigned Diggs not an overly physical WR at 6 195 but nope Diggs was running around in zone with Forbes on the sideline.

 

I still think Forbes first INT hit the ground but whatever. I missed a lot of game time - has Forbes dropped any easy INTs?

Edited September 29, 2023 by RandyHolt

[XxSpearheadxX]

46 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

 

 

Speaking of picks I think its prudent to not draft DBs expecting INTs from them. There is usually a reason they are on defense. Their hands suck. 

I understand your point, but it is not the case with Forbes. He has weaknesses but hands are not one. You don't break the college single season pick 6 record while playing in the SEC with bad hands.

He definitely was slightly over drafted though. At least it feels that way but what do I really know 

Edited September 29, 2023 by XxSpearheadxX

[Warhead36]

47 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

 

 

Speaking of picks I think its prudent to not draft DBs expecting INTs from them. There is usually a reason they are on defense. Their hands suck. A full time DB sees ~500 pass attempts a year on D yet a great DB can only expect to get 5 INTs in the low INT era. That's all code for: never draft a CB because they have good hands. Ballhawk is more like a chickenhawk these days.

 

 

I agree but not with your reasoning on their hands sucking. Takeaways are just a really volatile stat and actually relying on them year to year is silly.

 

Take Trevon Diggs for example. He had 11 picks in 2021, but only 3 last year and 3 the year before(his rookie year).

[RandyHolt]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

I agree but not with your reasoning on their hands sucking. Takeaways are just a really volatile stat and actually relying on them year to year is silly.

 

Take Trevon Diggs for example. He had 11 picks in 2021, but only 3 last year and 3 the year before(his rookie year).

Adding to your post, great cover corners will simply blanket WRs and QBs will look elsewhere. No INTs thus means nothing.

 

I just think its a mistake to draft a corner because of college TDs. If he attains cover greatness but remains at 170lbs I would expect OCs to run to his side early in games. We all know Joe Gibbs would never do such a thing though...

 

Its painful to hear he was only on the field half the game last week.  Maybe he can return punts if not a full time player and has great hands.

Edited September 29, 2023 by RandyHolt

[srtman04]

I really REALLY do not want this coach or FO to pick in next years draft.....I don't even want them sniffing anywhere near it next year.   I hope Josh cleans house and gets someone else, starting with a qualified GM.  

[Chris 44]

1 hour ago, RandyHolt said:

Maybe he can return punts if not a full time player and has great hands.

Dude will disintegrate if he returns punts. lol

[Going Commando]

3 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

Speaking of picks I think its prudent to not draft DBs expecting INTs from them. There is usually a reason they are on defense. Their hands suck. A full time DB sees ~500 pass attempts a year on D yet a great DB can only expect to get 5 INTs in the low INT era. That's all code for: never draft a CB because they have good hands. Ballhawk is more like a chickenhawk these days.

 

500 isn't even close to the number of targets DBs see in a season.  The league leaders in targets are more like 80, and most of those are going to be man coverage situations where they have extremely limited chances of intercepting the passes.  The average full time starting corner in the NFL is probably only going to get like 10 turnover worthy throws into their zones per season.  But picking these passes off =/= getting a reception, or even getting another type of big play like a sack in value.  They are game changing plays that are a major cause of wins, especially if they get turned into a pick six.  Sacks are drive killers like 80% of the time.  A pick six correlates to winning the game like 87% of the time.  It's the single most valuable individual play that a member of the regular 22 can make in order to cause wins.  Obviously you don't want a DB who picks the ball off but gets torched constantly outside of those big plays, but high end DBs with an exceptional ability to turn the ball over have extreme value.  They win DPOYs and are basically only behind QBs and elite DLs in value.  They turn good defenses into great ones.  And the ability to turn it over without compromising their coverage separates the great DBs from the good ones.

[RandyHolt]

DBs get INTs on passes on which their receiver is not their primary receiver. Fact is any pass has potential of being intercepted by anyone on the field including DL.  Thinking a DB can only get an INT when its a pass to their man receiver especially when we are in zone 61% of the time... meh I'll stick to total passes our DBs see for setting expectations on total INTs by a DB. Many INTs are deflected to another DB.  Hail mary INTs with 3 hands on it first.  My fav the QB pummeled as he throws up a duck. Errant throws. 3rd and long prayer INT into double coverage aka just like a punt. Way too many juicy INT situations to focus on quantifying times just in single man and the receiver targeted. 

Edited September 30, 2023 by RandyHolt

[RandyHolt]

9 hours ago, Chris 44 said:

Dude will disintegrate if he returns punts. lol

I figured he would disintegrate facing outside zone runs with a big boy like Ryan Torrain or Al Morris hauling the mail.  Think Green Bay sweep or counter Tre'y Johnson. He gets his nose dirty in the run game sure but he needs to attack at the LOS and avoid getting trucked down field after the back is coming at full speed.

 

Brandon Banks returned punts. ARE was what, 180? Darrell Green at 185.

Edited September 30, 2023 by RandyHolt

[Skinsinparadise]

Keim doubled down on Bram's show yesterday that right now Forbes isn't considered by the team a starter, yet.  Yes teams play in nickle a lot but he's not their nickle.  And looks like they alternate their nickel in a rotation.

 

In Forbes defense though CB often isn't the easiest position to start hot.    He seems like a smart dude and clearly talented so will see.    Wonder if he gets some good play against his old friend Devonte Smith this week?  Considering his struggles so far against the run wonder if that limits him some in this game -- the Eagles will run the ball and Swift gets to the edge quickly.

Edited September 30, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

23 hours ago, Redwards said:

SIP, do you think I'm correct in assuming that the Harris Group have real, solid football evaluators watching these games and taking notes?  Evaluators that are not part of Ron's FO?  People that are highly aware of the past drafts and FA choices, and the mounting examples of what could have been and how the current regime truly hasn't been smart or creative enough to turn us into an Eagles elite team?  Surely they have to see that the systemic issues Ron's team and FO have goes beyond just QB.  

 

I've got to believe that's the only way as an owner you're going to get real, solid details about the shortcomings of this FO vs. just Harris watching games and giving it the eye test.  

 

I've said this in a previous post, but I'm seriously terrified that Ron does just enough this year to camouflage his regime's serious shortcomings and gets signed to an extension.  I'm being serious when I say that there is no part of me that sees us moving into the upper echelon of teams with Ron and his FO running this organization.  That includes Ron only being the head coach.  We're just not making meaningful headway; we're not nearly better enough in Ron's fourth year than we were in his first.  Plain and simple: it's just not happening - not working to the degree that it must.  

 

Ron and crew are the last mediocre vestiges of the Snyder era, and personally, they are keeping me back from being seriously and emotionally invested as a fan.  And it's because they just are not in any way good enough.  Once they are gone, for me, I'm 100% invested again.  It's not a conscious decision to be made.  Until they are gone, and the last of the Snyder connective tissue is clipped, I just can't fully embrace anything the way I so desperately want to.  

 

I am with you.  As for Harris, I think so.  The lady from ESPN who wrote the long article about Harris a few days ago said from what she understands Harris is absorbing everything right now patiently.  That's goal #1 and goal #2 is improving the fan experience.

 

She also said the disadvantage Harris has for this season is the sale was so involved and complex and took so long that his focus was on that not so much the team and current circumstances so he's digesting and learning that now.

 

Judging by Ron's rhetoric including of late I gather he's trying to sell Harris on variations of these two points.

 

A. The team is super close.  Let him finish the job in season 5.  Otherwise, another coach he feels will benefit from all his leg work and if Harris wants that to happen that's up to him but he deserves credit for that future success -- send him his SB rings.

 

B.  Peeople need to be patient with him in his first year with a young QB starter.  Lets forget the first 3 years and consider this a fresh start -- new QB, new O line, new offensive coordinator.  It will take time for that to gel.  He started it so let him finish.

 

Whether Harris buys it should be interesting.  Everyone in that building i am sure are selling it to him considering their fate are all tied together.

 

A beat guy, I think it was Keim if I recall referenced the point I mentioned a bunch in the off season if this season goes south and they sustain the fan momentum?  I suspect they won't.   The good will still still exist for Harris but if this ride looks like another vintage Ron 8-9 journey will the stands be packed in the 2nd half of the season?

 

I know give or take it seems 6 or 7 people on the board are OK with Ron coming back with maybe 3 among that group is enthusiasitc about Ron coming back.  But otherwise, judging by here, talk radio, twitter, the fans don't seem to be clamoring for more Ron Rivera especially if the season goes same old same old.  I gather Harris will notice that. 

 

Edited September 30, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[SkinsFTW]

11 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Keim doubled down on Bram's show yesterday that right now Forbes isn't considered by the team a starter, yet.  Yes teams play in nickle a lot but he's not their nickle.  And looks like they alternate their nickel in a rotation.

 

 

What a pathetic draft. NOBODY starting, meanwhile even some good teams (better than this one) have 3 or more players making significant contributions. 

[Commander202]

6 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

What a pathetic draft. NOBODY starting, meanwhile even some good teams (better than this one) have 3 or more players making significant contributions. 

Most of our guys are draft picks dude , what are you taking about ?

On 9/29/2023 at 9:03 AM, Koolblue13 said:

Forbes pick = Davis pick

Forbes has done more in 2 games ,than what Davis has done these past 3 years. 

That isn’t a good comparison 

 

[Commander202]

11 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am with you.  As for Harris, I think so.  The lady from ESPN who wrote the long article about Harris a few days ago said from what she understands Harris is absorbing everything right now patiently.  That's goal #1 and goal #2 is improving the fan experience.

 

She also said the disadvantage Harris has for this season is the sale was so involved and complex and took so long that his focus was on that not so much the team and current circumstances so he's digesting and learning that now.

 

Judging by Ron's rhetoric including of late I gather he's trying to sell Harris on variations of these two points.

 

A. The team is super close.  Let him finish the job in season 5.  Otherwise, another coach he feels will benefit from all his leg work and if Harris wants that to happen that's up to him but he deserves credit for that future success -- send him his SB rings.

 

B.  Peeople need to be patient with him in his first year with a young QB starter.  Lets forget the first 3 years and consider this a fresh start -- new QB, new O line, new offensive coordinator.  It will take time for that to gel.  He started it so let him finish.

 

Whether Harris buys it should be interesting.  Everyone in that building i am sure are selling it to him considering their fate are all tied together.

 

A beat guy, I think it was Keim if I recall referenced the point I mentioned a bunch in the off season if this season goes south and they sustain the fan momentum?  I suspect they won't.   The good will still still exist for Harris but if this ride looks like another vintage Ron 8-9 journey will the stands be packed in the 2nd half of the season?

 

I know give or take it seems 6 or 7 people on the board are OK with Ron coming back with maybe 3 among that group is enthusiasitc about Ron coming back.  But otherwise, judging by here, talk radio, twitter, the fans don't seem to be clamoring for more Ron Rivera especially if the season goes same old same old.  I gather Harris will notice that. 

 

Going be honest , if we do fire Ron Rivera my target this off season would be Ben Johnson instead of Eric B. 
 

Still early but if we throw a lot tomorrow early on , than I’m going to lose a lot of trust in Eric B. Especially knowing the fact he wanted Wylie here and he has been terrible .

[Leonard Washington]

17 minutes ago, Commander202 said:

Going be honest , if we do fire Ron Rivera my target this off season would be Ben Johnson instead of Eric B. 
 

Still early but if we throw a lot tomorrow early on , than I’m going to lose a lot of trust in Eric B. Especially knowing the fact he wanted Wylie here and he has been terrible .

Coaches bring in their players for culture and to teach others.  Wylie hopefully is doing that in the locker room. Wylie is an odd player, he can go several plays looking serviceable and then have “I just started playing football last week” mess ups. 

 

11 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I know give or take it seems 6 or 7 people on the board are OK with Ron coming back with maybe 3 among that group is enthusiasitc about Ron coming back.  But otherwise, judging by here, talk radio, twitter, the fans don't seem to be clamoring for more Ron Rivera especially if the season goes same old same old.  I gather Harris will notice that. 

 

Great post. If Harris is behind and still learning, does he have plan for replacing RR after this season? I suspect Ron coaches next year if Harris needs time to plan how he  wants to target certain types of coaches. 

Edited October 1, 2023 by Leonard Washington

[SkinsFTW]

1 hour ago, Commander202 said:

Most of our guys are draft picks dude , what are you taking about ?

 

 

Was my post that difficult to comprehend?

 

NOBODY from this years draft is starting, correct?

 

In fact most of them haven't done a damned thing. A couple of them should have already been cut. 

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

A player like Forbes should be measured by INTs and PBUs. He’s a ball hawk. He’s gonna get cooked at times. Is what it is. He’s already got one pick and could have had another week one. 
 

Fuller and BSJ are good cover corners. We needed playmakers. Desperately. 

[Skinsinparadise]

7 hours ago, Commander202 said:

Most of our guys are draft picks dude , what are you taking about ?

Forbes has done more in 2 games ,than what Davis has done these past 3 years. 

That isn’t a good comparison 

 

 

Not sure about that.  Davis has played relatively well this season including making the game saving play against Denver.   73.7 so far from PFF which is a good grade compared to 48.8 which is really bad for Forbes.  Davis was still overdrafted though.

[Skinsinparadise]

7 hours ago, Leonard Washington said:

 

Great post. If Harris is behind and still learning, does he have plan for replacing RR after this season? I suspect Ron coaches next year if Harris needs time to plan how he  wants to target certain types of coaches. 

 

Thanks.  I guess will see how it goes.  I think the only way Rivera saves his job if its in a nonplayoff season is if Howell looks like the dude and he convinces the regime to let him build more around him next season.

 

Personally I hope Ron is gone.  He's a good person but I think he puts a ceiling on this team.  And oddly for a good person some of his rhetoric this year has come off tone deaf and arrogant for my taste including him multiple times saying what a good dude Dan Snyder was (even when he was no longer his boss post sale), the send me his SB ring if he gets fired, and the latest one acting like season 4 is like season 1 for him and he should be treated differently because of Sam.

 

6 hours ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

A player like Forbes should be measured by INTs and PBUs. He’s a ball hawk. He’s gonna get cooked at times. Is what it is. He’s already got one pick and could have had another week one. 
 

Fuller and BSJ are good cover corners. We needed playmakers. Desperately. 

 

Agree if he has the picks in the end, will see.  The issue for me was Gonzalez wasn't actually a stranger to picking off passes either.  

 

A concern about him included stopping the run at his physique, that's actually played out so far in a bad way.

 

He's a work in progress.  I am optimisitc about him even though he wasn't who I wanted.  But the fact that he's not a starter just yet -- makes this 2023 draft wild with ZERO starters helping this season in a must win season for Ron.

7 hours ago, Commander202 said:

Going be honest , if we do fire Ron Rivera my target this off season would be Ben Johnson instead of Eric B. 
 

 

Me, too.  Plenty of talk on the board about Ben Johnson for 2 years running now.

Edited October 1, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Starry Plough]

9 hours ago, Commander202 said:

Going be honest , if we do fire Ron Rivera my target this off season would be Ben Johnson instead of Eric B.

Ben Johnson will likely be on any short list. Frank Smith intrigues me too, admittedly, and will be another popular candidate as long as Miami keep putting up points. His diverse experience having worked with offensive lines (and TE’s), which given our current circumstances on that front in particular, is also noteworthy. 

[oraphus]

Wait this is about to get good.... "genius" Ron is going to trade for Deshawn Watson to save the season!  lol

love how all the ron defenders are finally seeing the light 

[RandyHolt]

A decent pick 6 chance for Forbes was when he was in zone.