Renegade7 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 4 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said: LMAO. The choices aren't "quick fix" vs "Don't win for 4 years" No **** 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said: I agree with you but with the caveat that smart signings in FA are imperative even for a building team. And from time to time, a veteran presence in a locker room of young guys could be a good thing, assuming it doesn't break the bank. If they sign a few 30 year olds on short deals while they draft and develop guys, I'm fine with that. If they sign a bunch of high-priced, old, over the hill FAs because they think they can win right away, I am not down with that. Yeah, I don't care about low money signings to help out with culture etc. But the idea spending 20 mil for a "mentor" is dumb. That gives me flashbacks to people thinking multiple draft picks and huge money to Donovan McNabb because he was going to teach the non-existent young QB of the future how to play. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said: Fuller is more of a zone type CB, and Quinn likes to play a lot of man. Might be a little mismatch. I thought Fuller's claim to fame was slot? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Veteran mentorship is overblown. These guys are competitors who are going to be doing whatever they can to play at their best, not teach the kid behind him how to take his job. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Talking about paying someone $20 million to be a mentor as a player is disingenuous. I wish people wouldn't sprinkle that on a s reason or not to sign someone. Fans may throw that out there, but the players, coaches, and GM don't look at that as a priority for a $20 million p/y player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philibusters Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 16 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: I thought Fuller's claim to fame was slot? Circa 2017 that was true, but as he has aged he has become a really good zone corner. He was drafted in 2016, 8 years ago, and he was never a super athlete to begin with, so at this point his athleticism is a limitation in man coverage. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 3 hours ago, Renegade7 said: I thought Fuller's claim to fame was slot? Years back but it’s no longer his forte apparently 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gooseneck Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 15 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said: yeah, but Forbes is also more of a zone type guy. Forbes was actually better in man in college. Off-man versus press-man which is actually how Dallas played a lot. So that's part of the reason why we've heard to death after the hire that Whitt is likely to be good for Forbes and some questions about Fuller. But even if I thought that Forbes was a zone guy. Why would that force me to suck it up with Fuller too? They have no choice but to run it back with Forbes. They have a choice at CB. Fuller is a smart guy and am sure can adjust to more of a man scheme but he's 29 and not as fast as he once was from what I heard. CBs who play a man scheme are really helped by speed considering they have to run up and down the field with the WR. https://draftwire.usatoday.com/2022/10/21/nfl-draft-emmanuel-forbes-mississippi-state-man-coverage-pro-football-focus/ Mississippi State CB Emmanuel Forbes is dominating in man coverage If you’re an opposing quarterback, and you see Mississippi State’s Emmanuel Forbes lined up across from your best receiver, you’d best be looking elsewhere once the ball is snapped. Forbes has been an absolute shutdown artist in man coverage this season, giving up just one reception on 11 targets, picking off five passes, and allowing a big ol’ goose egg in the QB rating column (per Pro Football Focus). Despite going up against top talent in the SEC every week, Forbes has been dominant when locked up in 1-on-1 situations. That fact won’t escape the sight of NFL scouts when draft season rolls around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 (edited) The Bruce Allen era with some rare exceptions like Desean Jackson, Pierce Garcon was mostly about being cheap in FA and doing little, while some of his backers was applauding his fiscal prudence. But the bargin basement garbage signings were mostly awful. They'd buy cheap crap. He did manage the salary cap beautifully for the most part but it meant nothing to winning. We can mostly say the same thing about Ron. i think it was Randy Mueller or one of the ex-Gms who said recently you want an owner these days if anything with the cash to push the cap because unlike 10 years or so where the cap was much smaller and the increment increases weren't what they are now -- the cap is much easier to stretch these days. So as they explained having the owner with the wherewithal to manipulate the cap with signing bonuses, etc are useful in today's NFL. Yes Dan in the Cerrato era back when he was apparently much more cash rich pushed the cap too much with backloaded contracts, etc. But those days are forever ago. And it was the wrong era to do it and more on point, Dan is incompetent. If they made big signings of players who were actually worth those contracts, it might have worked. Some like to talk about Haynesworth for example. But all the red flags were there before the signing. Him singing old players past their prime -- red flags were clear for that. My point is i am looking forward to having a GM who is actually competent shopping for the groceries for a change. I don't think its shocking that Bruce, Cerrato, Dan or even Ron sucked at FA. Gibbs actually had one strong FA class when he arrived. Those FA signings helped transform that defense in one fell swoop. Hoping for the same this year. Will see. If we draft a rookie QB, we have a window, but we want to take advantage of those years ala what the Eagles did among others. Edited February 21 by Skinsinparadise 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfan66 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 17 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said: WRs always break the bank. And with Gabe Davis, he's been SO close every year, someone will think they can unlock him to his full potential. My guess is he's going to get paid. May end up being the top WR on the market when tags/extensions are done --- I would guess $15-18m APY. Just checked, Spotrac has him at $13.6m projection - 4 years $56m Players like this are what we do not need, If he was anything special the Bills would keep him. He is all or nothing with a good QB, way overrated. We have a bunch of 600/700 WR's on the team. No.3/4 WR @ 13 mil? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 FA can often be just as big a crapshoot as the draft. For every London Fletcher there’s a Jeremiah Trotter. For every Pierre Garcon theres a Brandon Lloyd. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 There are some really bad takes going on in here. If you sign Bobby Wagner, who has a ton of experience with our LBer coach, a known leader and hard worker, experience with our HC and put him in the middle of the defense he absolutely becomes a mentor, even if its just from osmosis. He also is going to be looking over his shoulder for a younger guy to over take his job. That's hysterical. He's a top 3 LBer. We are not going to be a bad team next year. We're going to start winning quickly, so while some of you guys think we'll be bad for a couple years because you're jaded, we're going to be a lot closer to the Texans last year and I wouldn't be shocked to win the East, so yes, signing top notch FAs makes a ton of sense. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 Just now, Koolblue13 said: There are some really bad takes going on in here. If you sign Bobby Wagner, who has a ton of experience with our LBer coach, a known leader and hard worker, experience with our HC and put him in the middle of the defense he absolutely becomes a mentor, even if its just from osmosis. He also is going to be looking over his shoulder for a younger guy to over take his job. That's hysterical. He's a top 3 LBer. We are not going to be a bad team next year. We're going to start winning quickly, so while some of you guys think we'll be bad for a couple years because you're jaded, we're going to be a lot closer to the Texans last year and I wouldn't be shocked to win the East, so yes, signing top notch FAs makes a ton of sense. But why would Wagner come here if he can get similar money from a known, established contender? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfan66 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 30 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: Forbes was actually better in man in college. Off-man versus press-man which is actually how Dallas played a lot. So that's part of the reason why we've heard to death after the hire that Whitt is likely to be good for Forbes and some questions about Fuller. But even if I thought that Forbes was a zone guy. Why would that force me to suck it up with Fuller too? They have no choice but to run it back with Forbes. They have a choice at CB. Fuller is a smart guy and am sure can adjust to more of a man scheme but he's 29 and not as fast as he once was from what I heard. CBs who play a man scheme are really helped by speed considering they have to run up and down the field with the WR. https://draftwire.usatoday.com/2022/10/21/nfl-draft-emmanuel-forbes-mississippi-state-man-coverage-pro-football-focus/ Mississippi State CB Emmanuel Forbes is dominating in man coverage If you’re an opposing quarterback, and you see Mississippi State’s Emmanuel Forbes lined up across from your best receiver, you’d best be looking elsewhere once the ball is snapped. Forbes has been an absolute shutdown artist in man coverage this season, giving up just one reception on 11 targets, picking off five passes, and allowing a big ol’ goose egg in the QB rating column (per Pro Football Focus). Despite going up against top talent in the SEC every week, Forbes has been dominant when locked up in 1-on-1 situations. That fact won’t escape the sight of NFL scouts when draft season rolls around. Forbes has been nothing about dominance in the NFL just the opposite. The speed WR's beat him, bigger WR's not (height abuse him). I think the best we can hope for is a 3rd down CB. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clskinsfan Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 18 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: The Bruce Allen era with some rare exceptions like Desean Jackson, Pierce Garcon was mostly about being cheap in FA and doing little, while some of his backers was applauding his fiscal prudence. But the bargin basement garbage signings were mostly awful. They'd buy cheap crap. He did manage the salary cap beautifully for the most part but it meant nothing to winning. We can mostly say the same thing about Ron. i think it was Randy Mueller or one of the ex-Gms who said recently you want an owner these days if anything with the cash to push the cap because unlike 10 years or so where the cap was much smaller and the increment increases weren't what they are now -- the cap is much easier to stretch these days. So as they explained having the owner with the wherewithal to manipulate the cap with signing bonuses, etc are useful in today's NFL. Yes Dan in the Cerrato era back when he was apparently much more cash rich pushed the cap too much with backloaded contracts, etc. But those days are forever ago. And it was the wrong era to do it and more on point, Dan is incompetent. If they made big signings of players who were actually worth those contracts, it might have worked. Some like to talk about Haynesworth for example. But all the red flags were there before the signing. Him singing old players past their prime -- red flags were clear for that. My point is i am looking forward to having a GM who is actually competent shopping for the groceries for a change. I don't think its shocking that Bruce, Cerrato, Dan or even Ron sucked at FA. Gibbs actually had one strong FA class when he arrived. Those FA signings helped transform that defense in one fell swoop. Hoping for the same this year. Will see. If we draft a rookie QB, we have a window, but we want to take advantage of those years ala what the Eagles did among others. I would much prefer to go defense this year in FA over Offense. The draft is stacked on the offensive side of the ball. And FA is the opposite imo. Plus I want a young offense with the young QB so they can grow together as a group. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 3 minutes ago, Warhead36 said: But why would Wagner come here if he can get similar money from a known, established contender? Because we're not far off from being one and he gets to be a focal point of it. He knows and really has a strong relationship with the coaches. He went to the Rams and knows it was a mistake. We're going to be very good, very quickly and if signs a 3 year contract with us, he'll have a chance at a ring. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfan66 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 5 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said: There are some really bad takes going on in here. If you sign Bobby Wagner, who has a ton of experience with our LBer coach, a known leader and hard worker, experience with our HC and put him in the middle of the defense he absolutely becomes a mentor, even if its just from osmosis. He also is going to be looking over his shoulder for a younger guy to over take his job. That's hysterical. He's a top 3 LBer. We are not going to be a bad team next year. We're going to start winning quickly, so while some of you guys think we'll be bad for a couple years because you're jaded, we're going to be a lot closer to the Texans last year and I wouldn't be shocked to win the East, so yes, signing top notch FAs makes a ton of sense. I agree you have the tackles he will make plays still at his age. And a big need till you get the youth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 2 minutes ago, skinsfan66 said: Forbes has been nothing about dominance in the NFL just the opposite. The speed WR's beat him, bigger WR's not (height abuse him). I think the best we can hope for is a 3rd down CB. Completely disagree. We had a high school coach for our secondary after firing our first one and our DC. It's hard to judge any of our players from last season because our HC, OC and DC were all awful. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said: There are some really bad takes going on in here. If you sign Bobby Wagner, who has a ton of experience with our LBer coach, a known leader and hard worker, experience with our HC and put him in the middle of the defense he absolutely becomes a mentor, even if its just from osmosis. He also is going to be looking over his shoulder for a younger guy to over take his job. That's hysterical. He's a top 3 LBer. We are not going to be a bad team next year. We're going to start winning quickly, so while some of you guys think we'll be bad for a couple years because you're jaded, we're going to be a lot closer to the Texans last year and I wouldn't be shocked to win the East, so yes, signing top notch FAs makes a ton of sense. This was a top 3 defense the season before with "meh" LBs, imagine with a stud in the middle? I know some say well we had Chase and Montez in 2022. Chase didn't really play that season. And Montez production wise was good then but not what it was last season. We can find that pass rusher to replace Montez in FA, its a stacked FA class at that spot and defense in general. My point is if Gregg Williams can take a bad defense and transform in a year so could this group. That year they signed if I recall C. Griffin, S. Springs, M. Washington, P. Daniels. We can do that here. Obviously, the QB has to hit but if it does this team can be good quick IMO. As I posted recently Sheehan said he knows they in the building think this team can get good farily fast, they don't expect this to take long. 11 minutes ago, skinsfan66 said: Forbes has been nothing about dominance in the NFL just the opposite. The speed WR's beat him, bigger WR's not (height abuse him). I think the best we can hope for is a 3rd down CB. Yeah we all know he had a rough rookie season. My post wasn't a rah rah Forbes post, it was answering a post from someone who called Forbes a zone corner not a man corner. But to your point, will see. Whitt said Dallas liked Forbes in that draft. I heard Forbes was one of the first calls Whitt made to along with Payne and Allen. This was a poorly coached team. Forbes secondary coach last year was coaching high school the previous year. I am not assuming these guys won't be able to make these players better especially in the secondary. Edited February 21 by Skinsinparadise 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clskinsfan Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 5 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said: Completely disagree. We had a high school coach for our secondary after firing our first one and our DC. It's hard to judge any of our players from last season because our HC, OC and DC were all awful. I agree with a lot of this take right here. It is hard to bust on Forbes when he was getting crap coaching in his rookie season. I thought he showed some improvement later in the season even with that crap coaching. Dan Quinn will get the best out of him imo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 11 minutes ago, clskinsfan said: I would much prefer to go defense this year in FA over Offense. The draft is stacked on the offensive side of the ball. And FA is the opposite imo. Plus I want a young offense with the young QB so they can grow together as a group. Agree I've made the same point on the draft thread for months. But I think i would go TE in FA, especially if its FA. And I want one good O lineman in FA, too. LB Josey Jewell, Broncos Age: 29 Keeping with the Fangio theme, Jewell played under him for three seasons (2019-2021) when Fangio was head coach in Denver. Considered a well-rounded player, Jewell had 453 tackles, nine sacks and seven fumble recoveries over six seasons in Denver. He has worn the green dot in recent seasons, responsible for relaying communication from the coaches and getting the unit lined up. The Eagles were a mess at linebacker last season. They paid the price for under-investing at the position, especially with rookie Nakobe Dean sidelined for much of the year with foot injuries. Adding a veteran that could help keep the back seven in correct position could go a long way. https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39565014/five-defensive-free-agents-eagles-vic-fangio-target 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 RT, TE, LBer, Edge, FS, CB all need to be quality FAs I think. And it's a good class for them. Having guys that know our system will help. Gilmore, Kearse, Wagner for example. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said: RT, TE, LBer, Edge, FS, CB all need to be quality FAs I think. And it's a good class for them. Having guys that know our system will help. Gilmore, Kearse, Wagner for example. Outside of TE in the draft and tackle in FA, its really a lucky draw for us in both FA and the draft. Good match up of needs to the classes at these spots. FA is tacked IMO at edge, MLB, S. And is good enough at CB and interior O line. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 Just now, Skinsinparadise said: Outside of TE in the draft and tackle in FA, its really a lucky draw for us in both FA and the draft. Good match up of needs to the classes at these spots. FA is tacked IMO at edge, MLB, S. And is good enough at CB and interior O line. Yeah I'd love to address D in FA. Try to get the D good in the short term with a rookie QB to keep games close so he can develop without having to win shootouts every week. And Quinn getting his D up to snuff early will be good or our competitive culture while the O grows slowly with young drafted players and a new core built around Maye/Daniels. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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